Iron Man & Hyperion vs Rulk & Skaar

Iron Man (Bleeding Edge) & Hyperion (Marvel Now)

VS

Rulk & Skaar

In character

Winner by KO, Incapacitation or Death

Random encounter

Standard gear and abilities

Fight takes place at an unpopulated city setting at night

Who'd win? For what reasons?

Callouts:

Penny for your thoughts on this battle?

@life_without_progress: what Armor you giving Tony

@oceanmaster21: read the OP.

Team 2 should win pretty convincingly unless I'm underselling Hyperion.

probably team 2

If Hyperion was written by Hickman (this version´s creator), then Team 1 wins with Hyperion as the MVP.

Otherwise, Team 2 wins because of Skaar who would beat Iron Man, then Hyperion beats Rulk, leaving the son of Hulk versus Hyperion in which Skaar should win.

Team 2 wins

Probably team 2. BFR is the only option.

How? Didn't BE Tony manhandle Rulk on his own?

Hyperion should be able to hold off Skaar until Tony helps, if not defeat him.

Not really, he juggled him around a bit, but it resulted in nothing.

Hyperion should be able to deal with Skaar while Rulk will most likely defeat Iron man, Hyperion and Rulk can go either way.

That's basically correct. Iron Man ragdolled Rulk and made him scream out in pain, but ultimately Ross was only out for a page with no lasting injuries or damages:

Gallery

However, the fact that he could so casually toss him around like this just proves what would happen if Tony decided to fly him into the sun or space.

If Skaar grabs hold of the ground and uses the Old Power, I'm not confident that Iron Man or Hyperion could remove him from it:

Although I doubt Skaar will start the fight doing this and if Hyperion or Iron Man blitzes, they could avoid the problem and win that way.

Team 2 wins.

IM is the weak link and apart from physical strength, Skaar and Rulk are better than Hyperion in every other relevant part.

@noone1996: How is Hyperion blitzing Skaar?

@thekinfing: Has Skaar ever reacted to something flying at him at mach 600+?

@noone1996: Who has Hyperion flied at mach 600+?

@noone1996: How many times has Hyperion bullrushed or blitzed someone at Mach 600+?

Can I see combat feats from Hyperion that put him at those levels of speed?

Rulk isn't beating Tony

@thekinfing: @atheistknowledge: We don't know exactly how fast he goes every time he bullrushes. When he one-shotted/blitzed Terminus though he was definitely going faster than lightning which is 224,000 mph (mach 290+). Atheist is familiar with these scans, but when he flew from Nevada to Sumatra in one minute, that's the equivalent of mach 683 (8,873 miles in a single minute).

I should be the one asking about Skaar's combat speed feats. Is he reacting to someone blitzing at faster than lightning speeds?

Yes he is. Rulk was only screaming when they fought because he's afraid of heights. It's obvious m8.

Why do you think rulk beats Tony? Even if we ignore Tony vs Ross fight which was not PIS, we can compare Thor vs Tony and Thor vs Rulk side by side, and find that in several pages, Thor beat Rulk to death while Tony was pretty fine.

On a side note, can't believe you're debating against Iron Man.

@noone1996: There's a massive difference between flying from one place to another and actually bullrushing someone from one place to another, Superman, for example can fly at hundreds of times the speed of light, that doesn't necessarilly means that he can bullrush people at those levels of speed, same thing goes for Hyperion.

@thekinfing: I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do that. I guess you could argue that carrying a 2 ton dude would slow you down a bit, but I doubt it'd be by that much.

@apex_pretador: Lol I was being sarcastic.

@noone1996 said:

@thekinfing: @atheistknowledge: We don't know exactly how fast he goes every time he bullrushes. When he one-shotted/blitzed Terminus though he was definitely going faster than lightning which is 224,000 mph (mach 290+). Atheist is familiar with these scans, but when he flew from Nevada to Sumatra in one minute, that's the equivalent of mach 683 (8,873 miles in a single minute).

I should be the one asking about Skaar's combat speed feats. Is he reacting to someone blitzing at faster than lightning speeds?

I knew you were gonna bring those scans... Come on dude...

First off there is no confirmation that be bullrushed Terminus faster than lightning that's just an assumption people made that i honestly don't even understand how they came to that conclusion.

Secondly flying off to Indonesia to get some coffee beans and back is not the same as bullrushing people at FTL speeds... Thor has flown at 3x the speed of light, how many times has he bullrushed someone or thrown his hammer anywhere near those speeds or even a fraction of that speed? Zero times in more than 6000 issues his appeared in.

Yes in THEORY they all should be able to do this, but in practice they never have and practice is what matter because we ain't debating theories here but actual quantifiable feats, otherwise there would be no end to the highballs people could come up with.

Yea, imagine debating against your favorite character or a character you like, so bizarre..

@atheistknowledge: Thor was trying to hit Terminus with lightning and, after the lightning was projected, Hyperion blitzed Terminus before it could hit him. Not sure how this is confusing or speculation. Thor even says, before launching his lightning at Terminus, "Father give me a storm that would tear the sky. Give me lightning that would burn the world." Haven't we had this conversation before?

I never said faster than light. I said faster than LIGHTNING which is apparently still fast enough to run circles around Skaar or Rulk since no one has provided any speed feats yet.

I'm glad that you agree that there should be absolutely no reason at all whatsoever that Hyperion CAN'T blitz at similar speeds. The only argument I can see is it being 'out of character' since he's never specifically used that exact amount of speed on someone else, but even if you reach to make that claim, the fact that he outsped lightning is proof enough that he'll blitz at massively hypersonic speeds if necessary.

@noone1996: Thor was trying to hit Terminus with lightning and, after the lightning was projected, Hyperion blitzed Terminus before it could hit him. Not sure how this is confusing or speculation. Thor even says, before launching his lightning at Terminus, "Father give me a storm that would tear the sky. Give me lightning that would burn the world." Haven't we had this conversation before?

That could just mean Thor didn't start the lightning attack, not that Hyperion was faster than it. Whaaaaaaaat? What does that statement from Thor have anything to do with Hyperion traveling faster than the lightning, which btw was all around Terminus so again i don't see how Hyperion was faster than it. I don't remember having this conversation with you before.

I never said faster than light. I said faster than LIGHTNING which is apparently still fast enough to run circles around Skaar or Rulk since no one has provided any speed feats yet.

But he is not faster than lightning, except for travel speed which has fuck all to do with combat speed.

I'm glad that you agree that there should be absolutely no reason at all whatsoever that Hyperion CAN'T blitz at similar speeds. The only argument I can see is it being 'out of character' since he's never specifically used that exact amount of speed on someone else, but even if you reach to make that claim, the fact that he outsped lightning is proof enough that he'll blitz at massively hypersonic speeds if necessary.

You are not listening to me. In THEORY there shouldn't be but we don't go with our THEORIES, we go with facts. As you don't see me saying Hulk can bullrush at 600+ mach either or at lightspeed+ even though there are feats that kinda suggest he can if we try to theories a bit.

Every fight i've seen with Hyperion he hasn't outsped anyone really, not nearly at those speeds. Not Hulk, Rulk, Tony, Namor, Blue Marve, a bunch of meta humans, a bunch of fodder, etc...

Except that Thor had a grudge to settle with Rulk and was going all out whereas his fight with Iron Man whilst under a mental illusion wasn't nearly as destructive. Thor has also stomped Iron Man when serious in JMS' run. We can also compare how Iron Man blasted Rulk with everything he had and that barely took Rulk out for a single page. So Tony is not beating Rulk for a safe majority at all. Nor is Hyperion very impressive next to Skaar outside of physical strength.

@lvenger:

JMS Thor also had the Odin Force, so that's a tiny detail that should be mentioned. When Diablo mind-controlled Thor and Iron Man to fight he didn't do nearly as well against Tony as he did while wielding the Odin force.

Also, I agree that Tony couldn't put Rulk down, but based on how easily he was ragdolling him I don't think it's a stretch to say he could beat him through BFR.

Damn this is a good fight. I'm leaning towards Team 1.

@noone1996: Thor really wasn't doing anything that he couldn't do under his regular power, nor did he use as much of the Odin Force as he did when fighting the Destroyer, Surtur or Bor. That detail is ultimately irrelevant since Thor wasn't going all out against Iron Man, just hitting him harder than he usually does. The Diablo fight was honestly lucky for Iron Man since Thor has the physicals and damage output to stomp Tony as easily as he did under JMS. The plot kept things from turning out that way.

Rulk has tanked BFR attempts from Namor and more powerful attacks than what Iron Man is packing, so I highly doubt that Tony can BFR Rulk before he lands a critical hit on him.

@lvenger:

Is there any evidence that he can consciously deploy more or less of his odin force energies at will? I mean when he was King Thor I remember he accidentally dented Cap's shield. The Diablo fight isn't the only time Thor failed to trash Iron Man while mind-controlled. The only time he's ever shown outright stomping Tony is when he has the Odin force and I think there's a reason for that.

When did he tank BFR attempts from Namor? When they were underwater and he was just trying to get him out? Tony's fight with Red Hulk kind of proves how helpless Ross would be if Tony decides to fly him around. Even if you argue that Rulk wasn't trying to fight back, you can just see that there was nothing he could have done about it anyway.

Team 2

@noone1996: Didn't start the lightning attack? The lightning was about to trash Terminus and kill the kids inside, but Hyperion blitzes it faster than the lightning can hit it and then causes the trajectory of Terminus' body to slightly move which then leads to the lightning missing. That's faster than lightning. Thor's statements prove that he was trying to fry Terminus with lightning.

Spoiler blocks exist for a reason. Yes he didn't start the lightning attack, you can even hear the "rumble" as the attack prepares, although there is lightning in the background. All this shows is that Thor and Hyperion struck him about the same time. Where did you get the conclusion that the hit caused the trajectory of Terminus body to move and for the lightning to miss, when nothing indicates that Terminus moved even an inch, in fact he was frozen in that state after Hyperion blew through him.

Yes it does if he's blitzing.

No it doesn't. Travel speed =/= blitzing/combat speed, this has been explained to you by myself and others, don't be stubborn when mountains of evidence prove you wrong or do you want me to go through every powerhouses that's every flown, ran or jumped at certain speeds and never preformed such speeds or anywhere close to that when blitzing/bullrushing?

I don't see how it's some sort of unproven "theory" that Hyperion can't carry a 2 ton being with him while he flies at massively hypersonic speeds. This is like saying Iron Man has never one-shotted Captain America so that means it's just a theory instead of fact.

I'm not saying he's going to pull a Superman and zip around and dodge hits or punch 5000 times per second or anything like that. I'm saying he can, and has, flown at massively hypersonic speeds to tackle another character. I guess you could argue that he doesn't tend to do that, but he has done it to Terminus so saying it's impossible or won't happen with 100% certainty is incorrect IMO.

He can carry, he can't blitz/bullrush him at that speed. That analogy fails from its premise because IM has one-shotted beings more durable than Captain, Hyperion hasn't blitzed anyone at massively hypersonic speeds.

Well good because if anyone suggested that i'd probably have to lay of comicvine until i heal my sanity back. No... he... hasn't... Why is this so hard to understand? Where the fuck in all that comic does it say or suggest that he blitzed Terminus faster than lightning traveled at him? Absolutely nowhere, all i see is him hitting the guy before Thor actually went through with the attack. I mean if we actually saw a single panel of lightning starting its travel towards Terminus, you'd have a case but we don't see that anywhere, this is no more different than saving someone from a gun shot or a laser, it does not necesarily mean you are faster than either, it all depends on WHEN the projectiles were fired, but here we don't see when the lightning first struck we just see it striking around Terminus as Hyperion already flies through him. He hasn't blitzed Terminus at massively hypersonic speeds and even if he did i do say he 100% isn't gonna use it here, because he already fought a depowered Rulk and hasn't done anything of the sort as well as on dozens of other occasions.

@noone1996: If he was consciously deploying most of the Odin Force whilst fighting Iron Man, Tony would have been scrap metal. Classic Iron Man was depicted as a heavy hitter capable of temporarily standing up to Thor if he used 100% of his battery power but since then the power gap between the likes of Thor and the likes of Iron Man have widened. Hell Wonder Man was orginally nearly as strong as Thor but in modern comics his power was exceeded by Hulk whilst Iron Man, Scarlet Witch and Vision were backing him up. Thor has stomped enemies that would walk all over Iron Man anyway so I have no reason to assume Thor would struggle to stomp Tony.

In Hulk #27, the one where they fought so yes that is what I was referring to. Tony blitzed him towards the ground where gravity was pulling Rulk down as well. And yes Ross wasn't trying to fight back so that had a major impact on the fight. Rulk has tanked Tony's uni beam and one shotted him as Extremis Iron Man who isn't that much weaker than Bleeding Edge. Ross could have thunder clapped IM or tanked the hits out and grab Tony when he gets close. It would be a big stretch to assume Rulk can be BFRed by Iron Man especially when Tony hasn't BFRed anyone as powerful as Rulk either.

Doesn't Iron Man have an energy sword? He could probably cut up Ross with that. Barring that it seems debatable, I struggle to rank Skaar and Hyperion overall.

Yes, Thor was morals off and all-out against Rulk, and only mad at IM, but still, despite the fight happening for a similar time-period AND one ending up unscathered vs other ending nearly dead shows the difference. And Tony in BE armor also one shotted Ulik more than once, the same Ulik is giving unworthy Thor trouble in his current run.

He did still handle him pretty well, and with no difficulty. Even if he is not actually knocking out Rulk (which is debatable), he can still casually ragdoll him and harm him.

Thor has also stomped Iron Man when serious in JMS' run

Yes, he did, but he did not one-shot him or even two-shot him. Even after stating he was "not holding back any more", he is only able to two shot IM and that's after the beating Tony took from him. Plus, this was Odin-force thor, well above regular Thor. And Extremis Iron Man, below BE Iron man.

Nor is Hyperion very impressive next to Skaar outside of physical strength

And travel/bullrushing speed which Noone already showed 2 instances of him capable of hypersonic speed, and heat vision, which is capable of decapicitating Namor, and flight.

And what else would he need to beat Skaar?

Rulk and Skaar.

Iron Man has never given Thor trouble or came remotely close to defeating him.

Thor's state of mind played directly into how badly damaged Rulk was, whilst not fighting back I might add, compared to Iron Man being unscathed from a short fight they were tricked into. It's not accurate for you to cherry pick these two fights and proclaim Iron Man is superior on that basis. Ulik is about as much a threat to Thor as Mongul II was to Superman, not a big deal at all.

Rulk was trying to tell Tony he was sent to help and Tony went all out immediately on which is a rarity for IM in character. His best shots only delayed Rulk for a page at best, and in their actual fight Rulk one shotted Extremis Iron Man who is not far behind BE in feats.

Thor has one shotted an asteroid the size of a mountain, one shotted a chunk of rock that was going to flatten a citadel the size of Chicago and one shotted Angrir where Bleeding Edge Iron Man struggled heavily against a Serpent empowered Grey Gargoyle. If Thor actually uses his best attacks, and these have all been done by regular Thor without the OF, Tony would be instantly dead, there can be no denying that. Odin Force Thor wasn't fighting nearly as hard as he was against the Destroyer, Surtur and Bor anyway.

Hyperion's blitzes are nowhere near as effective as the likes of Gladiator's let alone better speed blitzers over at DC. Flight can be met with leaping and Hyperion comes down to brawl a lot anyway. And Rulk has tanked energy attacks like Ikaris' eye beams, MODOK's brain blasts that one shotted Red She Hulk and even survived Phoenix Five Cyclops' Optic Beams.

Hyperion needs actual striking power and combat speed feats to beat Rulk and Skaar. Which he doesn't have according to my research. Just because Hyperion has the powers of a Superman clone doesn't make him anywhere near as powerful as the real deal.

True.

Seems like trouble to me.

@noone1996: Where did you get the conclusion that the lightning hit Terminus?

It didn't it hit all around him.

Even if I concede and I agree with your interpretation, which I don't, they still hit at around the same time and that'd make his travel speed or blitzing speed massively hypersonic. Being near lightning speed is still impressive.

You don't have to agree with something for it to be correct. Listen to yourself... that's like saying a coin falling and being a fraction away from hitting the ground and a lightning strike hitting the ground at the same time means they traveled there at the same speeds. The whole page is ridiculously wanked out of context and exploited even though it misses so many key components for anyone to legitimately claim Hyperion traveled at lightning speed or above.

When has this ever been explained to me? Based on my understanding, and what I've always been told, is that travel speed and reflex/combat speed are two different things. I don't understand why blitzing would fall under the combat/reflex speed when the character is clearly using their travel speed to tag someone else. I'm not sure why you act like this has been explained to me one million times and that I'm just ignoring the 'facts'. Link me a thread where I've been explained this.

TheKinFing just told you the exact same thing in this very thread. Because Thor has flown at 3 times the speed of light yet has never bullrushed/blitzed anyone at anywhere close to light speed or even thrown his hammer at those speeds, because Superman has flown at hundreds of times the light speed and has never bullrushed anyone close to those speeds, because Hulk has jumped at atleast mach 100 but has never bullrushed anyone close to those speeds. Do i need to go on?

I don't see why he can't.

Because he never has, because travel speed =/= bullrush speed. You see in your mind it's the same thing and yes it kinda looks like it should be but literally every writer has made a difference between characters being able to fly at certain speeds and then bullrushing someone at those speeds.

...except Terminus who you admitted was going at similar speeds as lightning.

No. Where did i admit this?

Yeah, yeah. We get it, Hyperion is a slowpoke and you don't like him.

The fact that there is a lightning stream being drawn right in front Terminus' body kind of makes it look like lightning was in the process of being launched and not just rumbling in the clouds like you are saying.

Oh god... Yea it all comes down to me not liking Hyperion, that's what it's all about, nice armchair psychology analyzing my reasons for this. It's not like i couldn't wank Hyperion bullrushing at lighting speed based of a single page where he flies through Terminus as lightning is shown around him which must mean he traveled at lightning speed because lighting is in the same picture. It's not like i couldn't apply that same logic and start wanking my favorite Hulk bullrushing characters at hundreds of times the speed of sound, even potentially lightspeed going by the one time he caught SS as he was blitzing across the entire Earth as a ball of light. Good job mate.

What? The lightning was already launched, it was all around him, what more lightning were you expecting?

Hyperion actually did blitz Red Hulk, but you're right that he didn't decide to throw him into space. Once again you are picking a needless fight with me even though I basically agree with you. Did you see what I said when I initially commented? Team 2 wins and BFR is the only way team 1 has a chance. YOU were the one saying it was absolutely impossible for a blitz or BFR to occur. I'm just arguing that it's not impossible. I even admitted that it would be fair to say that it'd be out of character for Marc to blitz or BFR, but I don't see how it's impossible. If he decides to fight like he did against Terminus, then it could happen. Hell, even Iron Man could BFR if he planned to, but I have admitted that it's not that likely. At the same time, it's not impossible.

Did he blitz him at ligtning speed, did he blitz him enough to overwhelm him with speed? Because i don't remember it happened, in fact he didn't really have any effect on a depowered Rulk, his HV did fuck all as well. I am not picking a fight, let's not be overly dramatic about all this. It's not about whether you agree or disagree with me, we could wank each other all day here and agree on who beats who on every single thread that would still be completely irrelevant, we are arguing about the fundamental differences in travel speed and bullrushing someone and about a specific feat in question.

For me to accept that Mark can bullrush someone at the speed of lighting, i would have to go against everything i've seen in comics so far.

Travel speed = bullrush speed

Doing something once and not doing it a dozen other times = doing it in this fight

This is why i have problems with characters like Gladiator who have 2 instances of actual super speed and dozens and dozens of instances of failing to approach that kind of speed in any way, this is why i look at that feat of Thor flying at "THRICE" the speed of light and don't go well he can just now bullrush anyone at those speeds as well. The only time i've seen a character fly at travel speed as a bullrush was when Gladiator tried to blindside Heimdal wtih a bullrush but even then he traveled an entire galaxy distance in a blink of an eye so Heimdal wouldn't see him but then apparently slowed down as he was close because Heimdal did see him, he did brace for him and even had enough time to utter the word "No" which wouldn't be possible if Gladiator was still traveling at speeds crossing the galaxy in the blink of the eye, all of which resulted in one of the weakest bullrushes i've ever seen and that's it.

I don't know a single other character that has bullrushed anyone anywhere close to the speeds they traveled at.

Rulk slaps Hyperion around and Skaar takes out Tony

@apex_pretador:

• Thor's fight with Rulk lasted 5 pages where Iron Man's fight with Thor lasted for 3-4, so it was still slightly stronger.
• You're assuming Ulik is still comparable to Rulk, he's not by feats. Ulik was one shotted once by BE Iron Man, he staggered him the second time. Significantly but he wasn't KOed.
• Superior combat speed won't be enough since he lacks the damage ouput to KO someone of Rulk's durability. Tony hasn't caused 10.0 Earthquakes and shaken a continent with his blows.
• Yes it was written by Loeb. That doesn't automatically disqualify it though, Loeb has to write something stupid and PIS ridden first.
• All of his power compared with Thor casually doing it with a single hammer throw. The difference in exertion is plain, what takes all of IM's power is easy for Thor.
• That's a false equivalecy between Superboy Prime and Superman, doesn't correlate with Thor and OF Thor.
• Grey Hulk resisted a Silver Centurion Iron Man blitz. Furthermore, if Skaar is using the Old Power, Hyperion is not budging him. If Thing, War Machine and more combined can't move him, Hyperion is not doing any better.
• Thunderclaps are still a valid option then and Tony doesn't just stay in the air and nuke enemies in character.
• A Bomb one shotted Ulik so I'd be careful about making that claim. Iron Man cannot handle Rulk, you're just kidding yourself. Rulk is much stronger, much more durable and can heal which means he's outlasting all of Tony's attacks and KOing him once Tony gets up close.
• Just one of several examples where Hyperion's heat vision won't damage Rulk or Skaar.
• Obviously very little but Hyperion doesn't have good combat speed feats. Iron Man has better combat speed feats than him.
• Namor<<<Skaar. Skaar manhandled Ben Grimm who is equal to Namor and has tanked way more powerful attacks. It's not harming Skaar.