Mantis. She's not the better martial artist, but it helps being an extremely powerful precog to know what her opponents are going to do before the fight even starts. Plus she could just shut their brains down with TP, although I get the feeling TP is restricted from this, even if it's not in the rules of the OP.
Mantis. She's not the better martial artist, but it helps being an extremely powerful precog to know what her opponents are going to do before the fight even starts. Plus she could just shut their brains down with TP, although I get the feeling TP is restricted from this, even if it's not in the rules of the OP.
Going to go with this, though, hasn't Gamora and Mantis fought before?
@New_World_Order: They've never fought to my knowledge. I'd love to see it though.
If it's ever a time where there is some sort of cosmic turmoil, and Mantis' Celestial Madonna powers are thrown off, then Gamora would stomp, since she is a much better martial artist and can take and deliver a lot more of a punch.
If she has full precog powers though, then she either wins, or sees she has no chance to win, and finds a way to end the fight. At least that's how it should go down if the characters are written well IMO.
@New_World_Order: They've never fought to my knowledge. I'd love to see it though.
If it's ever a time where there is some sort of cosmic turmoil, and Mantis' Celestial Madonna powers are thrown off, then Gamora would stomp, since she is a much better martial artist and can take and deliver a lot more of a punch.
If she has full precog powers though, then she either wins, or sees she has no chance to win, and finds a way to end the fight. At least that's how it should go down if the characters are written well IMO.
Oh, I'm not sure why I recall them fighting, lol. I do agree with how you see it going down though.
@New_World_Order: She'd beat him with or without weapons, because of physicals, much better durability, and a wolverine level healing factor. On pure unarmed skill, I guess it's debatable, but I still think she's better based on lore and her ability to hurt characters well out of her weight class so easily because of her skill. Danny can too, but only because he charges his punches to make them more powerful. Gamora can do that without needing to increase power, because of sheer skill.
@supermanwithatan01: I can understand arguments for all of them. On pure skill, I would say that Gamora and Danny have a step up in skill over Mantis. It's tough to tell if Mantis is doing what she does because of her skill, or through her precog.
@New_World_Order: She'd beat him with or without weapons, because of physicals, much better durability, and a wolverine level healing factor. On pure unarmed skill, I guess it's debatable, but I still think she's better based on lore and her ability to hurt characters well out of her weight class so easily because of her skill. Danny can too, but only because he charges his punches to make them more powerful. Gamora can do that without needing to increase power, because of sheer skill.
I was thinking towards this, but wasn't sure if it would sit well with the vine. I think if this was done in comics, they would be shown fairly even. I do feel that in terms of skill, Gamora has somewhat diminished somewhat compared to what she used to be. I mean, I remember her doing things like one-shot nerve striking characters as strong as the Thing. Nowadays, her skill has been matched by Thor's sister Angela, who I do agree is pretty skilled, but on the level of what Gamora is supposed to be on? I'm not so sure.
@supermanwithatan01: I'm pretty sure that Moondragon has equal h2h training as Mantis. Personally I don't see them at the very top of the h2h hierarchy though. Near the top but not at the top. I don't think Mantis' precog abilities help her that much in combat either. Usually she just has something pop into her head but its not clear enough for her to actually anticipate and counter what her opponent is doing.
@supermanwithatan01: I haven't read enough recent Danny to really say. I am planning to read the full immortal iron fist run soon though. Maybe after that I'd give an opinion.
Mantis. She's not the better martial artist, but it helps being an extremely powerful precog to know what her opponents are going to do before the fight even starts. Plus she could just shut their brains down with TP, although I get the feeling TP is restricted from this, even if it's not in the rules of the OP.
@llehdevil: It doesn't always help to see into the future if you have no context to try and change it from happening. Mantis' precog generally just sees glimpses into the future but she doesn't always have full context for what leads up to it or how to try and alter it. I don't think it actually helps her much in h2h combat.
@llehdevil: Than Gamora and IF? I don't see her as being on Gamora's level in a purely physical battle. I think Gamora is better in h2h and much, much stronger as well as much more durable. Don't really see her as being on Danny's level either.
@llehdevil: It doesn't always help to see into the future if you have no context to try and change it from happening. Mantis' precog generally just sees glimpses into the future but she doesn't always have full context for what leads up to it or how to try and alter it. I don't think it actually helps her much in h2h combat.
She's used her precog in combat multiple times, which given her few fights, that shows consistency. I know she did against Karnak, when she fought him in Guardians of the Galaxy #15. She does when they fight the Badoon too, warning Groot of a laser blast, and predicting the moment the battle turns for them. Those are just two off the top of my head, but I'm sure I could find more.
I would also say that she sees much more then glimpses, but events in their entirety with several possible outcomes, so she cant always predict with 100% success. Not every outcome is always true, and things like Starhawk coming from an alternate dimension and timeline throws her abilities off some.
@tparks: She only knew that Karnak would defeat her though. It wasn't helping her react to anything he was doing. She sees glimpses and knows how far they are into the future. Sometimes all she sees is a word. I think it depends on how much she can concentrate and in h2h combat it would be hard for her to do so. Especially against someone as good as IF or Gamora.
The only Mantis feat I think of is the time she fought Thor, unless I'm thinking about another character... I don't follow her or Gamora enough to make a statement on who wins and how.
@tparks: many is is the most skilled martial artist in marvel. She has had over 1000 years of training. She is to much for them unless they double team her right off the bat, but she can one shot pressure point either.
@supermanwithatan01: Danny and gamora are close in skill but gamora probably has a touch more on paper. She also can withstand his punches most likely but Danny has some pressure point stuff of his on that could possibly beat gamora with but I would probably give a slight majority to her over him...
Would likely come down to Mantis and Gamora not Iron Fist. She has taken on several powerhouses at a time and tends to absolutely demolish skilled opponents. Like when she humiliated Midnight Sun, who used to be relatively equal with Shang Chi (who Iron Fist is roughly equal to when it comes to skill) before he was reborn and essentially improved in all areas (physicals and skill)... after he got said improvements.
And despite Gamora beating Mantis in strength and regeneration Mantis has dealt with that before and definitely has the speed and skill in hand to hand to handle her. Plus some unique ability advantages of her own, not the least important the undeniably superior skill with nerve strikes. Gamora's training doesn't seem as focused on such types of duels but instead more on multiple opponents and utilizing weapons in order to kill. Her feats even seem to support this.
@apex_pretador: I didn't say he's one shotted them, but in fairness Danny has KO'd the hellicarrier, Black Turantula, Colossus, and skyscraper-sized gods. Not to mention being evenly skilled, fast and capable of injuring well above their weight class.
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