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#51 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida: Thanks, but I have been back for a while now, possibly longer than you have (not completely sure though).  
 
Poor CL.
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#52 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: I've been around for a while, just not active. And CL is still regarded as the place that the intelligent people hang at.
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#53 Posted by Soulstealer (828 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@Soulstealer said:

Cyke has hit people both faster and more agile than Ironfist and if it was a lesser martial artist

He's hit faster, but I can't recall anyone more agile then Danny. And Danny's speed is great enough that he can catch bullets. Even classic IF was a bullet-timer. Current should have more then enough speed and agility to get in close enough to hit Cyke. With morals off Cyclops takes this rather easily, as he probably would someplace with less cover. As it stands, Danny wins.

Hmmm. You're right. When I said that I thought that Cyke had tagged Spidey in the past, but I've been looking through some issues and I don't think he ever has. All the tries I've seen are dodges. So agreed. Faster yes, agile no.

Let me say though that I have to agree about bullets jobbing. XD You have to take into account that Cyclops isn't your average marksman, his projectile speed does matter however but not as much as it would if he were a worst marksman. Cyke is able to do a lot of the things he does with his optic blasts because of his geometric knowledge and spatial awareness. That's not to say that he never misses or that it's crazy that Danny dodges him, but that's to say that superior stats isn't all there is to this.

Also I'd like to say that people tend to forget the precision and exacting nature of his blasts. Everyone remembers Scott blowing away areas by taking off his visor but very few think about him bouncing a blast around a room and taking out every target there in. Or his exact control of the width and height of the beams using his visor and eye lids.

Posted for the fun of it. lol
Posted for the fun of it. lol

I'm not saying that he beats Danny in this situation; but I find it a little strange that somehow he will never ever be able to hit IF at any distance using an outstanding degree of tactical prowess, changing the shape/intensity of his blasts, scary aim, and geometry. Or if he does Iron Fist some how super tanks every blast.

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#54 Edited by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: The explosion occurred inerdimensionally in between Earth and Kun Lun hence why Danny chose to go on the tracts and was catapulted towards the train. It was meant to destroy the whole city so yes it was that powerful. Why would Danny make that comment and why would a train containing explosives to blow up a city which exploded not explode with that much power?

I'm going to disagree with you. Otherwise there would be no point for the writer to make a comparison to the Hiroshima bomb, the writer would have just left that out completely and there's also the fact that the train completely exploded with the explosions.

Other than that, Cyclops removing his visor is irrelevant anyways. Morals are on, fighters are in character and Cyclops would never remove his visor against a fellow hero.

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#55 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:

@Silver2467: The explosion occurred inerdimensionally in between Earth and Kun Lun hence why Danny chose to go on the tracts and was catapulted towards the train. It was meant to destroy the whole city so yes it was that powerful.

And yet when the smoke cleared, Danny was only a couple dozen yards away from HYDRA agents who were completely unharmed. Nothing suggests the final explosion was anywhere near that level of power. 
 

Why would Danny make that comment and why would a train containing explosives to blow up a city which exploded not explode with that much power?

Because he was commenting on how powerful the detonationcould have been, not how it was. He outright says he needs to destroy it before it destroys them. What do you think that means? He was saying the train needs to be stopped before its full destructive potential could be realized. 
 

I'm going to disagree with you. Otherwise there would be no point for the writer to make a comparison to the Hiroshima bomb, the writer would have just left that out completely and there's also the fact that the train completely exploded with the explosions.

And again, he says how powerful the train's planned detonation would have been. But he destroyed it beforehand preventing it from causing that much destruction. Read the scans. 
 
@Silver2467  said: 
 Danny clearly says he needs to destroy the train before it destroys them. In other words, its full destructive output was never realized.
 Danny clearly says he needs to destroy the train before it destroys them. In other words, its full destructive output was never realized.
    
 HYDRA agents are shown in the background. They would be atomized if the explosion were nearly as powerful as you claimed it was.
 HYDRA agents are shown in the background. They would be atomized if the explosion were nearly as powerful as you claimed it was.
You really have not even made an argument. Danny says the train needs to be destroyed before it destroys them, which by itself is a concession on his part that he would never survive the explosion if the train's intended destructive power was unleashed, and then destroys the train only a fair distance from other people who are utterly without any signs of injury. 
 
Do the math.
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#56 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio


Why would Danny make that comment and why would a train containing explosives to blow up a city which exploded not explode with that much power?

Because he was commenting on how powerful the detonation could have been , not how it was. He outright says he needs to destroy it before it destroys them. What do you think that means? He was saying the train needs to be stopped before its full destructive potential could be realized. 
It's possible that Danny means he needs to destroy it when the train is still between worlds, and that the explosion was contained within in gateway. In theory, the blast only would have made it as far as whatever was keeping the door open. Once that was gone the door would close and the damage would be limited. And I realize that raises completely different questions about what happened, and I would be willing to disregard the whole scene, because it REALLY doesn't make much sense from a logical stand point (the Immortal weapons start out on one side of the gate and then... Walk past the exploding bullet train?)
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#57 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida: I...guess, but if Danny launches himself through the gateway, why is he standing on the same visibly material ground the HYDRA agents are afterward?  

Maybe disregarding the whole scene is better, especially since it has nothing to do with the thread.
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#58 Posted by jashro44 (51886 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron fist. I don't think cyclops can hit him...

Online
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#59 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Still going to disagree. Just because he says that by destroying it before it destroys them doesn't mean the explosion was any weaker. It means that he'll destroy it before it reaches them, hence why he needed to catapult himself to it.

Like I said, the explosion happened interdimensionally. It's not like it happened next to the city. Also, for your information, the Hydra soldiers that you claim who would be atomized aren't even at the city, they were where the train had initially launched and if Iron Fist landed on the other side that means he went straight through the whole explosion

No Caption Provided

And you're right, we do't know how big the explosion really was we just have the writer comparing the potential explosion to hiroshima and a double page of the whole train exploding with nothing left of it. I take back what I said about Iron Fist soley survive the explosion by riding out the explosion because it's clear to me now that he only survived because he continued to propel himself through the portal to the other side. But I still disagree with you on the magnitude of the explosion because it happened interdimensionally.

Regardless, interpret it how you want, but Cyclops isn't going to remove his visor here. It's a non-factor and discussing it strays away from the debate.

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#60 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:

@Silver2467: Still going to disagree. Just because he says that by destroying it before it destroys them doesn't mean the explosion was any weaker. It means that he'll destroy it before it reaches them, hence why he needed to catapult himself to it.

And your interpretation is noted, but given that Danny was surprised that he managed to survive and stated the intended explosion could destroy them, I am not especially inclined to believe you. 
 

Like I said, the explosion happened interdimensionally. It's not like it happened next to the city. Also, for your information, the Hydra soldiers that you claim who would be atomized aren't even at the city, they were where the train had initially launched and if Iron Fist landed on the other side that means he went straight through the whole explosion

No Caption Provided


And yet the rubble was shown on HYDRA's side. Look at the debris and burned rubble beneath Danny's feat. 
 
@Silver2467  said: 

              
 He stands on destroyed train parts on their side of the portal, indicating that the explosion happened on their side.
 He stands on destroyed train parts on their side of the portal, indicating that the explosion happened on their side.


And you're right, we do't know how big the explosion really was we just have the writer comparing the potential explosion to hiroshima and a double page of the whole train exploding with nothing left of it. I take back what I said about Iron Fist soley survive the explosion by riding out the explosion because it's clear to me now that he only survived because he continued to propel himself through the portal to the other side. But I still disagree with you on the magnitude of the explosion because it happened interdimensionally.

Yet the remains of the train ended up on HYDRA's side of the explosion. But they survived. 
 
Nothing even remotely shows that it was a nuclear detonation. It was stated that when the train's explosives were triggered and razed the capital cities, it would be nuclear. When it was actually destroyed, there was nothing showing that. 
 

Regardless, interpret it how you want, but Cyclops isn't going to remove his visor here. It's a non-factor and discussing it strays away from the debate.

...You are aware I never even said Cyclops would remove his visor, right? 
 
The issue is irrelevant not because of Scott's morals but because Danny has to charge his Chi to withstand explosions. Without brief prep, he is not that durable. That being the case, Cyclops can still drop him without removing his visor if he manages to tag him. I will leave it up to you and whoever else wants to debate the topic to decide whether that would happen or not.
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#61 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2978 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott

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#62 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: I only mentioned the visor because a few users were claiming that cyclops wins because visor removal.

As for who wins, the fight can be a toss up in my opinion. It takes place in the savage land and that's all the OP gave us. If they are in a grassy open meadow I see Cyclops taking it, if they are across each other with a lake in the middle Cyclops takes it, if there are a bunch of trees I see Iron Fist taking it, if they are in a cave etc...

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#63 Posted by Tone702 (135 posts) - - Show Bio

Regardless at the type of explosion Iron Fist had to endure during the train speeding, it was still an incredible durability feat. It would have been incredible just the speeding train alone, and incredible just an explosion alone, but for both, I don't care if the explosion was similar to a grenade, it's impressive. 
 
With that being said, I believe Scott can take him. Scott is one of the most underrated and underwritten people in Marvel. I'm a huge Iron Fist fan and if Scott doesn't take him out in the beginining of the fight then he is done. But Scott has the leadership, the experience, the marksmen ship to make me lean towards Scott.

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#64 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio

These are two of my favourite characters. But I see Danny taking this. He's more then agile enough to avoid Cyke's aim.