Invisible Woman and Scarlet Witch vs Mera and Zatanna

VS

Rules

• In Character but serious
• Marvel Characters are 616
• DC Characters are Post Crisis/New 52/ Rebirth

Battlefield: Dystopian City

It depends if Zatanna is able to take down Scarlet Witch as fast Sue is going to take down Mera

Sue beats Mera without too much trouble

Wanda and Zatanna can one-shot each other depending on who has the superior speed

Hey what’s good? Since your a marvel 616 fan do you want me to tag you in my marvel 616 vs battle threads?

@darthrassilon: Sure👍

I’ll back Team 2 in a great fight

Zatanna would beat Wanda. Sue beats Mera after a very tough fight. Since her fight will end first, Zatanna will help Mera against Sue and secure the win.

team 1

👍

@nassergrant19: me 2

I'm backing team 1 since its basically 2 v 1 Mera being dead weight and Sue can protect Wanda from zatanna while SW can lay down a barrage of attacks.

Oh ok gotcha👍

How exactly is Mera "dead weight"?

@geekryan: She has no way to get past Sue's shields and Scarlet Witch is way more powerful than she ever will be. Pretty much she can't beat either of them

Zatanna blitzes and turns them both into rabbits nigh instantaneously, Mera isn't needed (not that she's doing much anyway)

Mera can use internal hydrokinesis to drain Sue through her force fields; Wanda has more hax but Mera has her beat in raw power.

@geekryan: Sue has her own atmosphere inside her shields that can prevent her from being manipulated inside. Wanda has sent thor flying her raw power matches or exceeds meras

Mera has harmed Superman, Martian Manhunter, etc. with her power. When Wanda sent Thor flying, he came back shortly after and he was unharmed, meaning her attack did not damage him.

The inside of Sue's force fields can be affected. Storm has proven that in the past. Furthermore, Mera can directly manipulate the water inside Sue's body and instantly dehydrate her, force field or not.

@geekryan: Sue has blocked subatomic manipulation from entering her field on multiple occasions so it's more evident that's what will occur. Tbh Wanda could literally just erase Mera from existence she's the only one here who has no resistance.

Wanda rarely does that in character lol.

Mera's power doesn't need to bypass anything. It directly afters the liquid in an opponent's body.

• Drains a man (link)
• Tells Black Manta that she can take the water from his body and flood his lungs (link)
• Drains another man (link)
• KOs 3 soldiers with accelerated dehydration (link)
• Takes down a tank from within using her hydrokinesis (link)

I do think Sue would beat Mera in a tough, long fight... but to say Mera is "dead weight" is quite ignorant.

@geekryan: Calling her dead weight might be quite harsh but she can't beat either of the marvel team 1v1. Why Sue is such a Powerhouse is because of how haxy it is. Her shield has countered the ultimate nullifier and canceled the intangibilty of red ghost as well as the ghost intangiblity. Even Pheromones can't past Sue's shield which negate entry. Basically there isn't a way for Mera to use her powers while Sue's shields are up. And once sue puts a shield around Mera she is basically powerless. Sue simply outclasses Mera by alot. Wanda's probability manipulation makes it extremely difficult for Mera to do anything to the point Wanda could just depower her or dehydrate herself. Add that plus her magic

There's nothing to prove that Mera couldn't bypass Sue's shields. The ability of Sue's shields to negate any and all kinds of attacks is inconsistent. As I said, even Storm has affected the atmosphere within her force field.

Wanda would lose to Mera in an in-character fight. Her probability is inconsistent, she rarely reality warps opponents while in character, she's a glass cannon, and she's slower.

@geekryan: Sue’s feats prove Mera can’t get past her shields.

@geekryan: Sue shield negates are more consistent than not. Storm actually has feats of effecting multiple atmospheres at once but that's a high end feat for her. Also Wanda's probability manipulation is way more constant than not it was her main movement for years. All those feats you posted is something Mera has done only recently we both know her effecting flash before he gets to her is a outlier.

Consistent speed feats for Zatanna to suggest she can blitz Sue.

Wanda's probability manipulation was her main power in her classic days. Not recently.

Flash was holding back and running on water, that's why she was able to react to him.

Mera only really started using internal hydrokinesis in New-52. She uses it quite often now, especially if she can't take down an opponent with raw power.

Storm never affected the atmosphere within her force field, she affected the atmosphere outside Sue's force field but it's by no means an anti-feat for Sue since both Johnny and Jean have used their powers from within Sue's force field but couldn't when Sue was fighting them, plus Sue has a consistent record of negating other psionic abilities.

DC team probably, depending on how much or how little Zatanna's jobbing or holding back.

After doing some reading on Mera I understand that's she's a pretty powerful character and while there are a few low showings she's overall pretty consistent (in terms of durability, strength and hydrokinesis) but at the end of the day Sue is just more powerful. In a fight Sue could just suffocate Mera since it's something she does a lot in character.

What would stop Sue from hitting Zatanna with an invisible force field before she could even react?

Team 2.

Mera could also instantly dehydrate/drain Sue....Hax works both ways, and Mera is faster. Sue is more powerful.

Meras hydrokinesis bypassed Superman's bioelectric field that keeps his clothes and people he is carrying from vaporizing every time he flys really fast.

No reason to think she can't manipulate the water inside Sue's body, despite Sue's impressive shields. She doesn't need to get anything *through* those shields; the water is already in Sue's body.

Lmfao what’s up with this Mera wank? Team 1 wins handily. Sue can probably solo.

Mera can't dehydrate through force fields and Sue's force field especially has consistently blocked psionic abilities.

Sue is easily faster than Mera since Mera has almost no standalone speed feats and even with scaling Sue has also consistently fought with fast characters, I'm willing to CaV it if you don't believe me

Sue's force field has blocked psionic abilities (like Mera's hydrokinesis) consistently.

@scarlet_wiccan: Mera’s hydrokinesis isn’t a psionic-based power, it is magical, due to her Atlantean/Xebellian genetics.

I don’t see why Mera needs “standalone speed feats” to make her speed valid lol. We can’t just ignore scaling because it suits our argument. You also admitted you aren’t that knowledgeable on Mera.

Mera is overall faster. A CaV would just boil down to a speed comparison, and I already admitted that 1) Sue is overall more powerful, and 2) Sue would win in a tough fight.

@geekryan said:

I get her powers are magical in nature but if she manipulates something with her mind it's psionic, like Sue's powers are psionic but cosmic in nature.

With speed consistent standalone feats is crucial since someone like Sue can be considered FTL with scaling or Catwoman tagging Flash mid-run with her whip would be considered who knows how fast.

I'm not an expert on Mera but I haven't seen consistent speed feats presented for her yet other than blocking bullets and dodging an attack from Orm here on CV which I thought meant she doesn't have.

Mera's speed relies on her fights with Wonder Woman, Superman and Flash which are all unquantifiable whereas Sue has consistent quantifiable speed showings and a lot of unquantifiable scaling feats so I don't see how Mera is faster.

Exactly how fast do you consider Mera?

1) That isn't psionic. Psionic has to do with psychic powers, i.e. telepathy, telekinesis, empathy, etc. Would you consider a bender from Avatar to be psionic because they manipulate elements with their minds? No. Is Superman's ability to fly considered psionic because he uses his mind to control his gravitational field? No.

Furthermore, just because Sue has (inconsistently) blocked TP & TK with her force fields does not mean she can block all powers that are manipulated by the mind.

2) We don't judge a character's speed based solely on their standalone feats. If that were the case, characters with limited appearances or no standalone speed feats would be unquantifiable. Scaling is just as important, and we take consistency into account. That is why Catwoman reacting to Flash doesn't make her as fast as Flash: it isn't consistent, and it's an outlier.

3) How are they unquantifiable...? Because they involve scaling? That makes no sense. It's especially weird for you to say that because when you debate, you regularly use scaling.

Mera's movement speed is at least hypersonic.

She's around the same level of speed as Aquaman, which is on par with Wonder Woman and slightly below the likes of Superman and Martian Manhunter.

She is also fast enough to dodge two lightning attacks from Ocean Master, blast him with water, and then close the distance while appearing as a blur.

In terms of combat speed, she has contended against Ocean Master, Wonder Woman, and most of the Justice League.

Mera's fight against the Justice League. Mera was weakened at the time from a continuous assault against the magical barrier around Atlantis for days on end.

Gallery

• Knocks back Superman and Wonder Woman and traps them in two water spheres
• Pulls the rings off the two Green Lanterns
• Stops Flash in his tracks and instantly dehydrates him
• Launches Cyborg into the air
• Reacts to a surprise attack from Batman and puts him in a one-handed choke hold

Mera uses a hardwater bubble to protect herself and Aquaman from a nuclear explosion going off underwater:

Gallery

Reacting to lightning and explosions, plus all the scaling to Aquaman, Wonder Woman, etc.

@geekryan:

1

Gallery

Here are examples of psionics that aren't TP or TK, The benders from avatar mostly need hand gestures so I don't think they're psionics and Superman doesn't manipulate a form of energy to fly so no I wouldn't consider him a psionic.

Sue has blocked Jean's TK twice, Psi-Lord and Psycho Man's telepathy, Sersi and Molecule Man's matter manipulation, ect. It's more consistent than not unless you can provide me with more anti-feats then the ones I mentioned.

2. I agree we don't have to disregard scaling feats the character just needs some non-scailng feats too, I mean Mera has appeared since 2011 in 90% of Aquaman books and consistently proves her power (scaling and non-scailng) yet almost no speed feats.

3. If it's quantifiable how fast exactly was Superman and Wonder Woman's reactions when Mera fought them or exactly how fast was Flash running when Mera attacked him?

Yes I use scaling to give a general idea of, let's say what Sue's force field can block like consistent attacks from high-tiers or her attacks can harm a certain character with a certain level of durability, and I can easily say Sue's attacks can harm Namor and this is Namor's consistent blunt-force durability feats. If you ask me now why it's an impressive feat for Sue to block attacks from any of the characters I scale with I can give you their consistent feats as well as more feats for Sue on that level.

You're arguing that Mera has Superman, Wonder Woman and Flash's level of speed because she can fight them and react to them but she also fights way slower characters without a speed advantage much more than two separate instances.

She's around the same level of speed as Aquaman, which is on par with Wonder Woman and slightly below the likes of Superman and Martian Manhunter.

Then why are you using the feats of Mera containing Superman and intercepting a speeding Flash as speed feats if you're saying Mera is slower than Superman and Flash?

Also Wonder Woman's speed is really inconsistent so if Mera truly scales with Aquaman what level of Wonder Woman's speed is Aquaman since she has multiple light speed feats but everyone and their momma can engage with her in fights.

Knocks back Superman and Wonder Woman and traps them in two water spheres

Pulls the rings off the two Green Lanterns

Stops Flash in his tracks and instantly dehydrates him

Launches Cyborg into the air

Reacts to a surprise attack from Batman and puts him in a one-handed choke hold

All these speed feats would require different levels of speed for Mera since all those characters differ in combat speed, see this is what I mean nothing about that one fight suggests consistency for Mera because she's never done multitasking on that level ever again, so you have to understand that if the majority of her overall speed stems from the fight it's a bit sus.

Mera uses a hardwater bubble to protect herself and Aquaman from a nuclear explosion going off underwater:

This is a good feat but I'm not sure if it's a speed feat.

Reacting to lightning and explosions, plus all the scaling to Aquaman, Wonder Woman, etc.

Explosions are nowhere near the speed of lightning and Aquaman and particularly Wonder Woman are also not very consistent when it comes to speed. Can't they both fight Superman that's faster than them in combat?

Mismatch in my opinion. Sue destroys mera and zantana isn't fast enough or mean enough to take down sw. Tell you the truth, i am not sure sw doesn't solo this whole thing.

btw sue's powers are instantaneous so no mera isn't faster. Movement wise yes but not powerset wise.

Team 1 Stomp. Wanda beats zatanna after a good fight. Sue wrecks Mera.

Mera and Zatanna win

Remember when you conceded that Zatanna would beat Wanda?

Team 1. both Sue and Wanda can beat Zatanna and Mera is weak-link.

@geekryan: I didn't concede I just wasn't interested in CAV'ing the topic and I was open to the possibility that Zatanna can beat Wanda. I still favour Wanda beating Zatanna more times out of ten. Not wanting to CAV something isn't a concession LOL