@sirfizzwhizz: why does that matter? Lifting strength can be a factor to overall power, it doesn't dictate AP tho
AP huh, this is base on what exactly? How DB characters can tank planet explosion and in turn take damage in punches? Energy attacks durability =/= AP Durability to physical attacks and DB has very much no impressive Physical attack unlike Viltrumites flying lightspeeds through layers of a planet, including the super dense destabilize core of Viltrum. With no damage to their bodies.
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I forget, show me DBZ durability to physical attacks outside some mountains thrown at them or flying through them? Meanwhile Raditz has no physical attacks to matter, and his moon busting energy attacks alone is not cutting it.
Total yield energy taken by character : Intensity * Cross-Sectional Area = 6.57 petatons (Multi-Continental level)
Or how Liefeld Supreme vision can and did one shot moon size space fortresses. Said fortress ship was so large to be a "World onto itself" and worked by breaking worlds down.
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Supreme Stare with Temperatures stated burn as hot as the sun in heat.
Yet Omni Man tank them fine.
Oh what about KI. You will surely claim the Ki Energy attacks they tank is proof of Durability but then thats DIRECTLY COUNTERED by heat energy by passing this durability? YET, Dragon Ball characters are super weak to sun like temperatures. Way more so than Invincible ever shown to be.
Goku was afraid of lava as SSJ, needing specifically a shown Ki field to save himself with King Kai crying out for Goku too. How liquid heated material threaten even SSB Goku and Vegeta in DBS films? Even Universe busting DBS Goku? Who is harmed by Magma core of Earth? Ki Shield or not?
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Doesnt harm Mark or even the vastly weaker Immortal in any way.
Goku btw is HUNDREDS times stronger than Raditz at this point. Yet Invincible characters energy wise can tank Solar Flare/Ejections fine.
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These are but a handful of pages. In 23 pages total Thragg and Invincible fight through the Corona Sphere and onto the Sun Surface. first 5 pages of the fight take place in the Corona Sphere which has temperatures 2,000,000ยฐ F. Next 18 pages take place on the Sun's Surface with is 9,940ยฐ F. It was not until few pages later Invincible dunk Thragg past the sun's surface, where they both start to burn badly. They continue to fight and burn 12 more pages before Thragg burns! Add to this feat of Temperatures, is the Solar Flares. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9owdmL2UWQSolar Flares are stated by the Science Channel to erupt at speeds of 4.5 million mph, and with the force of thousands (low end) to millions (higher end) modern day nukes. Thragg and Mark tank this. Multiple times. While their Smart Atoms were breaking down from sun temps.
Give me this Raditz durability can withstand AP punches and bull rushes of Invincible characters or Raditz weak as shit punches and physical attacks harm them in turn. The Durability feats of DB is consistent only with explosive like energy and ki energy attacks. Sure dont apply to heat energy lmao. Their durability is threaten by mountains all way in Frieza saga still lmao. Which Raditz is nowhere near. So this nonsense Raditz is more "durable" seems flat out false. He can tank energy attacks sure, cant tank Heat base attacks at all nor physical damage that invincible is putting out. Not even including the speed gap which is huuuuuuge.
Raditz no sells and one shot these fodders. Lifting strength is entirely irrelevant here. Eddie Hall can lift much more than Jon Jones, but I am still betting my car on Jones wrecking him in a fight. Raditz no sold blast that was able to destroy the moon and blow its pieces at FTL speed:
There is nothing they can do to him while he is going to blow through them
@omega7373663: I don't respond to Eredin. He is a very terrible debater. A real joke around here.
The fact he ignores Invincible feats and clear calcs, while providing no proof of Radditz physical durability (I showed how thrown mountains is a big deal and how mere lava hurts them, so why should I care about energy resistance equaling physical durability?) as a argument shows what a ๐คก show debating him is.
Piccolo destory 81 sextillion ton mass with casual ki blast by feat. CANON
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Raditz is no sell Piccolo like a fodder. CANON.
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Even when Piccolo and the Goku is JUMP Raditz, they still is a fodder to him. He is even tank kamehameha from a Goku no sweat. They need amp to hurt. CANON.
Raditz >>>>>> 81 sextillion ton
why no 100 ton?
Manga translations I found state Buu ark Goku could not really deal with 40 tons. Buu ark Goku > Raditz by miles.
@omega7373663: I don't respond to Eredin. He is a very terrible debater. A real joke around here.
The fact he ignores Invincible feats and clear calcs, while providing no proof of Radditz physical durability (I showed how thrown mountains is a big deal and how mere lava hurts them, so why should I care about energy resistance equaling physical durability?) as a argument shows what a ๐คก show debating him is.
Through stand-alone feats, scaling, intent, statements, and crossovers - they should both be able to individually beat someone who is moon to small-planetary.
They have the speed, tenacity, and physical capabilities to take Raditz down quite easily I believe.
@konohana: Which showings lead you to that conclusion? Tbh, I am not seeing them replicating force of Piccolo blast that Raditz utterly no sold
Look, I already know where you stand with Invincible and their power-levels, so if weโre going to have this discussion, you need to listen.
From what Iโve seen, feats like:
โข The Viltrum feat (via three Viltrumiteโs)
โข Thirty-seven surviving Viltrumiteโs being able to destroy and split the planet in-half
โข Mark kicking a small moon/planetoid out of its orbit and into Marsโ surface (feat with the Tick in crossover)
โข Viltrumiteโs being able to annihilate the home-planet of Allen, with nothing left, and people like Mark, Thragg, and Nolan should upscale.
The standard, adult Viltrumite should be near moon-level, at the very least, and we know that Mark alone is vastly above that.
I think either Mark or Nolan can solo, since small-planetary to small-planetary+ is enough to hurt Raditz, and this is in heavy disregard to potential planetary-scaling.
@konohana: Nah, the laser destablized the planet's core and it took 3 of 3 of them. That means below 1/3 planet level.
The featโs honestly up to interpretation, but I believe the intent from Kirkman was that most of the destruction was from the likes of Mark, Nolan, and Thadeus.
Destabling the core helped, but they did a lot of the work in destroying the planet.
@konohana: Which showings lead you to that conclusion? Tbh, I am not seeing them replicating force of Piccolo blast that Raditz utterly no sold
Look, I already know where you stand with Invincible and their power-levels, so if weโre going to have this discussion, you need to listen.
From what Iโve seen, feats like:
โข The Viltrum feat (via three Viltrumiteโs)
โข Thirty-seven surviving Viltrumiteโs being able to destroy and split the planet in-half
โข Mark kicking a small moon/planetoid out of its orbit and into Marsโ surface (feat with the Tick in crossover)
โข Viltrumiteโs being able to annihilate the home-planet of Allen, with nothing left, and people like Mark, Thragg, and Nolan should upscale.
The standard, adult Viltrumite should be near moon-level, at the very least, and we know that Mark alone is vastly above that.
I think either Mark or Nolan can solo, since small-planetary to small-planetary+ is enough to hurt Raditz, and this is in heavy disregard to potential planetary-scaling.
Thragg also no sold Nolanโs fist mashing to pieces against his head when he slams into it casually, and Nolanโs fists themselves no-sold crashing out the planet, so Thragg casually scales above that. EoS Mark is > Thragg.
@konohana: also 1/3 of earth is only slighly above the moon ignoring the laser. At best its a moon level feat.
No it is not lmfao
Moon busting is nearly 2000 times less than earth busting - not even in mass is it true that 1/3 of earth is moon, but neither is that the main factor in deciding how much energy is needed to bust said celestial bodies.
Viltrum is much tougher than earth (binding energy) but that is irrelevant since they didnโt overcome that. What they did do though is launch a good portion of the planet outwards when exiting, at the bare minimum escape speeds, which yields small planetary KE for each.
Thragg also no sold Nolanโs fist mashing to pieces against his head when he slams into it casually, and Nolanโs fists themselves no-sold crashing out the planet, so Thragg casually scales above that. EoS Mark is > Thragg.
@konohana: Iโve made more detailed posts before which I can do again, but essentially:
Hyperbolic statements arenโt feats. Weโve seen Viltrumites โdestroyโ planets repeatedly and they donโt bust them. They destroy all the infrastructure and wipe out the populace, but they donโt even surface wipe them. Thereโs constant examples of that. That covers two of the points.
The tick feat comes from the Tickโs book. Itโs a gag comic where one of the main characters abilities is to do dramatic shit depending on the situation. Not exactly a consistent environment to gather feats from for other characters.
Raditz no sells and one shot these fodders. Lifting strength is entirely irrelevant here. Eddie Hall can lift much more than Jon Jones, but I am still betting my car on Jones wrecking him in a fight. Raditz no sold blast that was able to destroy the moon and blow its pieces at FTL speed:
There is nothing they can do to him while he is going to blow through them
Yeah this is pretty much what it comes down to I think. The viltrumites lose really badly.
Iโve made more detailed posts before which I can do again, but essentially:
Hyperbolic statements arenโt feats. Weโve seen Viltrumites โdestroyโ planets repeatedly and they donโt bust them. They destroy all the infrastructure and wipe out the populace, but they donโt even surface wipe them. Thereโs constant examples of that. That covers two of the points.
My biggest issue with your point is thatโฆ they are completely capable of feats on the level they were talking about. It took three Viltrumiteโs to destroy Viltrum, and Thragg states that triple that could rip a planet in-half.
I see nothing far-fetched with statements like these.
The tick feat comes from the Tickโs book. Itโs a gag comic where one of the main characters abilities is to do dramatic shit depending on the situation. Not exactly a consistent environment to gather feats from for other characters.
Itโs a crossover, but itโs in-line with Markโs Viltrum feat, and countless statements and authorial intent.
@konohana: Iโve made more detailed posts before which I can do again, but essentially:
Hyperbolic statements arenโt feats. Weโve seen Viltrumites โdestroyโ planets repeatedly and they donโt bust them. They destroy all the infrastructure and wipe out the populace, but they donโt even surface wipe them. Thereโs constant examples of that. That covers two of the points.
The tick feat comes from the Tickโs book. Itโs a gag comic where one of the main characters abilities is to do dramatic shit depending on the situation. Not exactly a consistent environment to gather feats from for other characters.
You keep saying its a gag comic, while true, does not ignore its consistent with feats (Viltrum), statements, scaling, and Word of God. Thats the issue.
@konohana: Iโve made more detailed posts before which I can do again, but essentially:
Hyperbolic statements arenโt feats. Weโve seen Viltrumites โdestroyโ planets repeatedly and they donโt bust them. They destroy all the infrastructure and wipe out the populace, but they donโt even surface wipe them. Thereโs constant examples of that. That covers two of the points.
The tick feat comes from the Tickโs book. Itโs a gag comic where one of the main characters abilities is to do dramatic shit depending on the situation. Not exactly a consistent environment to gather feats from for other characters.
You keep saying its a gag comic, while true, does not ignore its consistent with feats (Viltrum), statements, scaling, and Word of God. Thats the issue.
Itโs not like invincible is canonically-imbued with gag force from the virtue of tick having it. The feat specifically needed Mark to carry Tick and push with him - clearly, gag force wasnโt enough to provide him with flight and/or invisible leverage. Arguing Tickโs abilities allowed him to be strong enough to push the moon on his own gives leeway to the fact that invincible is AS STRONG if not stronger, since he was tickโs leverage and would need to withstand the force to keep him in place without bouncing backwards (Newtonโs 3rd Law at work).
I donโt see why this feat is invalid at all tbh.
@returnkaboom232: Side note, not sure if reading right, sound like you suggest Tick also may have super strength. But we know Tick has no Super strength, he states this, and his comic best strength feat is lifting a car barely IIRC. So its hundred percent Mark strength wise which is why like the feat.
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