Intelligence - Hank Pym vs Bruce Banner

I looked around, and I couldn't find anything with these two in an intellectual battle one-on-one. So, whose smarter, the man with an incalculable intelligence and mastery over radiation, or the man who fount a new type of subatomic particle and created the most advanced A.I. in Earth 616?

Banner.

Banner all day, er'ry day.

Didn't Pym create Ultron?

Yep

Banner may have an incalculable intellect, but that means that his IQ could just be 140. It never says that his IQ is too high to be measured, it just says that his intellect is incalculable

As quoted numerous times, he started Ultron. But everything Ultron did to advance itself was due to its own being. Hank was more of a catalyst.

In Banner's defense, he was able to totally own Doctor Doom. He is considered one of the 8 smartest people in the world so I'm sure his IQ is far greater than 140.

Don't forget that Hank used his brain waves or something as a template for Ultron's intelligence (something like that).

Pym

Sounds familiar, just like Jocasta I think is after Janets. I can't remember.

But somewhere Pym said that Ultron reprogrammed itself and advanced its intellect on its own too. Creating Ultron is a big feat, but Ultron recreating itself is a bigger feat than that. So I don't know how much credit Pym gets for all the things Ultron has done.

Intelligence can be divided into 2 fields: Invention and Calculation

Invention:

Banner has built a forcefield capable of taking Juggernaut level blows without issue. He built a computer capable of hacking damn near everything out of an iPod. He built teleporters, battle armor, and a variety of devices that allow him to go head to head with foes that would normally stomp Pym. None of Banner's tech has threatened to destroy the world. Remember, Banner was helping the bumbling Rick Jones when he was hit with the gamma radiation making that Rick's fault not Banner. Everything that he has built has worked as intended. Pym wishes he had that track record.

Calculation:

Amadeus Cho postulated that the reason why the Hulk's kill count is relatively low while his destruction amount ridiculously high is because he calculates how all the damage he is dealing will affect the surrounding area and figures out the exact right way to deal the most damage to his target while also killing as few as possible. Pym wishes he was capable of that kind of calculation.

All in all Banner only seems like he is less intelligent because the Hulk is always getting in the way. Norman Osborne once suggested that Banner was the Monster and that the Hulk is the one who saved the Earth from him. Norman knows what most people don't, a focused Banner is MORE dangerous than the Hulk. Why do you think he spent so much effort on re-powering Banner? Pym wasn't even on his list because Pym is of no consequence.

They're both specialists in their own field and about equally smart for both being in the top 8 smartest characters in the MU.

I'd say Pym is smarter overall.

Not sure who exactly is the smarter of the two but as of late, Banner's intelligence has been far better established in Waid's run than ever. He has more than proven that he far outranks the likes of Tony and even embarrassed him.

I've changed my opinion. Banner outclasses Pym in a lot of aspects, now that we are seeing his intelligence being used now. The guy is already in the middle of building a machine that can gather natural gas without causing environmental-pollution to the water table.

Banner just waltzed righted into a state of the art secured base that was being used by Victoria Hand and some other scientist.

Oh, and the guy's hacking skills are freakin' amazing. He build an operating system out of an iPod as well, if I'm correct.

Definitely the third smartest guy. Even Doom was interested in seeing just how smart Banner actually was. Oh, did I mention that Banner outsmarted Doom as well?

Pym < Doom < Banner

I thought this was common knowledge.

Bruce Banner

No, because many people don't know that Banner is smarter than Stark and Pym, and that he is on par with or smarter than Doom (whether fanboys like it or not) because writers always downplay his intelligence like idiots (except for Waid; gotta' give him credit).

FYI to everyone, an evil Banner is more dangerous than Doom.

Pym. His whole infinite Avengers Mansion in a pocket universe is just outstanding. Binding Loki and blocking his magic was also a great feat, not to mention Pym particles. The whole invented a self-improving robot who was able to make himself the supreme ruler of earth in some dimensions is also nothing to sneeze at.

Banner is much smarter.

Pym

I just find it weird that people look at Ultron as a plus.

IQ tests mean nothing, they are simplistic and inconsistent. They are no more reliable than Dragon Ball Z power levels.

So true(I'm a huge DB fan)

Pym has more intelligence feats, because that's part of his hero persona. He's a smart guy with powers when he goes into battle. Bruce doesn't go into battle creating or devising strategies. Banner hardly fights at all. It's who's in Banner that comes out to fight and has showings. Bruce gets very view moments to shine because, he's simply not the Hulk. He's not the main focus of the Hulk comics. But look at the showings he does have. Look how he's respected by his peers for his intelligence. I think Bruce is slept on in the intelligence department, and he's probably equal too, if not greater than, Pym.

Hank Pym.

Hank

Wow, Hank is so underrated. Bruce is most definitely one of the absolute smartest people on Earth-616, but Hank is the third smartest man alive.

Definitely Pym.

Gallery

Pym by far.

I always thought the general idea was Reed > Hank = Doom > Banner

I would say Hank Pym based on what I know. He discovered and mastered the use of Pym particles and created the most advanced A.I. in the 616 universe. But then again, I don't know what Bruce Banner has accomplished. Does anyone have any feats on him?

They may work in different fields and measuring intelligence may not be as straightforward as slapping a value on people, but overall I'd say Pym is more impressive. Richards and Pym are the guys you go to when you want to achieve what the other guys can't. They and others like Doom are the prototypical comic book polymaths.

On a similar note, anyone find it totally absurd how some of these characters do things that aren't related to their fields at all? Pym is supposed to be a biochemist yet a significant portion of his feats aren't related to biochemistry at all. I think slapping the label of "quantum physicist" or something on him would be better.

EDIT: I consider Ultron a good feat. Even if it went awry, it was still what he set out to made in some capacity; an artificial brain. What's impressive from a technical standpoint was its ability to make its own decisions and come to the conclusion it did. The failure is more on Pym's judgement, something he's known for (*cough* Trial of Yellowjacket *cough*). Take your average Joe and they're not going to understand how Pym did what he did. Just because it wasn't useful doesn't mean it wasn't impressive.

Hank Pym.

The guy that Eternity called “Earth’s Scientist Supreme.”

@noone1996 said:

Definitely Pym.

Gallery

Great scans. What's it from?

@just_sayin: It's from the Fall of the Hulk's series. Incredible Hulk 607 I believe. Pym ends up owning MODOK and Leader too, but they retreat and come back and within a couple of minutes of prep manage to capture/outsmart Pym.

Don't they specialise in different areas?

Probably Pym.

Thank you.

Bump.

They specialize in different areas, it's hard to say who is smarter as in who has the higher IQ between the 2.

@underfire47: Who is smarter by feats?

@dcandmarvelcomicfan: Probably Pym, Banner has pretty much outsmarted all the smart guys at some point and vice versa but Banners biggest problem with science feats is the fact that 90% of his time he spends as a giant green rage monster, so he doesn't have much in the way of feats like Pym, Reed, Stark, etc... have.