Imperiex Prime vs Monarch

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CapitolPunishment

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#1  Edited By CapitolPunishment

Battle takes place Pre-Flashpoint, DC new Earth.
 
Imperiex prime arrives in DC new Earth universe with the intention of blowing it up. When he arrives he finds that Monarch had already taken over that Universe, and destroyed all the heroes that would be defending it. When he travels to Oa he finds its a barren husk and Monarch proudly hovering above the dead planet. The two spot each other form 5 miles apart and immediately attack one another. 
 
Imperiex Prime

No Caption Provided

VS
 
Monarch
 
No Caption Provided

Both are the most powerful incarnations of one another. Battle is one vs one, no probes, no army and no interference. Winner will be determined by any means necessary. Who would win this battle of two immensely powerful beings that both contain the power of the "Big Bang" inside of them and why?
 
All comments are welcome.
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#2  Edited By demifiend

imperiex

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#3  Edited By CapitolPunishment
@demifiend
 
Please elaborate as to why if you don't mind :D.
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#4  Edited By King Saturn
pretty good fight... though I think it might be a stalemate.  
if Imperiex manages to damage Monarch's armor... that could lead to his Quantum Energy Dispersing... and I don't know if Imperiex can take that kind of level of blast. 
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#5  Edited By kevdude

SMH this is spit, Imperiex Prime kills him easily... This should be locked, lol. He would have a hard time vs just a Probe. tsk.

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CapitolPunishment

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#6  Edited By CapitolPunishment
@kevdude said:

SMH this is spit, Imperiex Prime kills him easily... This should be locked, lol. He would have a hard time vs just a Probe. tsk.

Ok, I'll bite here, please explain how he "kills him easily"? Monarch had the power of the "Big Bang" inside of him (which was actually shown to be true, not just hyperbole) just like Imperiex. I'm not trying to insult you but this is in no way spite, both characters have a very similar power set here. In addition Monarch has the ability to absorb incalculable amounts of energy. Characters like Superman and other Kryptonians were like flys to Monarch. New Earth Superman cracked the armor of Imperiex which was an impressive feat for Sups. It took SMP to crack the armor of Monarch. SMP (the one with Qan energy) crushed, impaled, snapped necks and incinerated characters like Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and Superman with little to no effort what so ever.
 
@King Saturn said:
pretty good fight... though I think it might be a stalemate.  
if Imperiex manages to damage Monarch's armor... that could lead to his Quantum Energy Dispersing... and I don't know if Imperiex can take that kind of level of blast. 
Great point KS. I think it may also be possible it could also go in reverse whereas Monarch breaks the armor of Imperiex in which the same thing would happen and it would end in a stalemate. Unless Monarch quantum jumps or actually has the ability to absorb that much more power and add it to his own but IDK, tuff call for me here.
 
I'm interested to hear what others have to say.
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#7  Edited By vuviper

@King Saturn: What I don't understand is that if Imperiex had the power to unleash the big bang and destroy/recreate the universe, why is it hat he was defeated by sending him to the big bang (Note I didn't really read through the whole story, just mainly skimmed some parts so if someone could explain it to me that would be great.)

I think imperiex is more powerful, he can intentionally release a big bang and still have enough energy to recreate the universe to his liking. Monarch clearly has the energy, I don't know if he has the control, he didn't last long enough for us to see.

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#8  Edited By YoungGunna

Imperiex should win this in a good one..

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#9  Edited By kevdude

@CapitolPunishment: Yes this is spite, it was not hyperbole it was real he holds the power of the Big Bang within him! Monarch may hold a vast amount of quantum energy within him but Imperiex hold the power of entropy which is the ultimate force within any universe. Superman himself was not the only one fighting Imperiex he had the whole universe nearly attacking Imperiex and he still was nearly killed (along with Kismet). You say they was flys compared to Monarch?? Impressive yeah but everyone was compared to germs to Imperiex Prime. You somemore of OWAW with Imperiex his history, not trying to insult you as well. In all the cases OWAW was an analog to compare him to God.

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CapitolPunishment

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@kevdude: I know what you are trying to say and respect it. However I do not think you remember much about Monarch. I'm not near a PC but will post scans later, I have not yet decided who I personally think can win this and that'd is why I made the thread. Bottom line is that this is not spite. Yes Imperiex is very powerful, he punked the Guardians and had the power of the big bang. The thing is Monarch also had the power of the big bang and had similar feats I.E. punking the Monitors. This is a good match up.

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@kevdude:  
 
Sorry to reply to this so late, its one of those topics I was supposed to get back to but forgot until cleaning up my inbox.
 

Yes this is spite, it was not hyperbole it was real he holds the power of the Big Bang within him!

If you believe that Imperiex would win I completely respect that and personally I am unsure myself on who would win this but this is not spite, far from it, it should be a good fight if it ever happened. I also never said that Imperiex was hyperbole, If I was not clear on that I apologize.
 

Monarch may hold a vast amount of quantum energy within him but Imperiex hold the power of entropy which is the ultimate force within any universe.

Quantum energy is an unlimited source of energy in both the DCU (at least pre flash point) and the MU and to this date its status of "unlimited power" has never been contested in both recent Marvel and DC instances. It was also stated by Monarch himself that he held a power equal to the big bang within him, it was later shown on panel that he in fact held that power when he was destroyed and he took Universe designate 51 with him.
 
 Monarch stating he has equivalent power to the big bang itself
 Monarch stating he has equivalent power to the big bang itself
 
 
 Monarch exploding releasing the power of the
 Monarch exploding releasing the power of the "Big Bang" wiping out Universe designate 51 Part 1

 
No Caption Provided

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 During  final crisis #7 Monitors are confirming the destruction of Universe  designate #51. Both scripts of Final Crisis were written by Grant  Morrison
 During final crisis #7 Monitors are confirming the destruction of Universe designate #51. Both scripts of Final Crisis were written by Grant Morrison
   
During  final crisis #1 Monitors are confirming the destruction of Universe  designate #51.
During final crisis #1 Monitors are confirming the destruction of Universe designate #51.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Superman himself was not the only one fighting Imperiex he had the whole universe nearly attacking Imperiex and he still was nearly killed (along with Kismet).

This is true but the same goes for Monarch, He was smacking around 3 Supermen then killed and absorbed 51 Captain Atom's all at once. During countdown he was getting ready to take out all remaining Monitors (who are each far and away more powerful than everyone fighting Imperiex save maybe 3 characters) in a single blast aside from the one he left running in tears and Bob because Solomon already killed him. A monitor named Bob compared Kyle Rayner attacking him to trying to destroy a sun with a sling shot.
 
 Monarch getting ready to kill all remaining Monitors
 Monarch getting ready to kill all remaining Monitors
 Monarch viewing Monitors as nothing more than pests
 Monarch viewing Monitors as nothing more than pests
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Monitor Bob after easily tagging and killing the Flash compares the power of a Green Lantern to his own
 Monitor Bob after easily tagging and killing the Flash compares the power of a Green Lantern to his own

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

 

You say they was flys compared to Monarch?? Impressive yeah but everyone was compared to germs to Imperiex Prime.

 
Monarch viewed the same characters the same way Imperiex did. In addition he viewed the Monitors the same way, all of the Monitors are vastly more powerful than most (not all but most) DC characters. Monitors however do not have the battle experience that most high end DC character have but it terms of raw power and durability they are top notch. 
 

You somemore of OWAW with Imperiex his history, not trying to insult you as well. In all the cases OWAW was an analog to compare him to God.

I have read it, admittidly it was a while ago but IMHO Monarch displayed just as much power as Imperiex did. I will admit that Imperiex had a great deal of Knowledge as an advantage but Monarch's raw power defiantly rivals the power of Imperiex, if we go strictly off of feat (I'm not saying we have to) Monarch may have even more.
 
@vuviper
 
Its been a while since I read OWAW but If I remember correctly they sent him to Entropy. As I said its been a while since I read it so I could be mistaken.
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#12  Edited By lol

Imperiex should win this in a good one..

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#14  Edited By lol

Imperiex should win this in a good one..

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#15  Edited By XiiX

Not sure. Imperiex has more implied power, Monarch has more actual feats.

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As always Imperiex is being massively overrated. Here's my post taken from THIS thread (with necessary revisions):

Let me show you the full scans of that entire circumstance surrounding Imperiex Prime supposedly destroying and recreating the universe:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

Pay close attention to the small panel on the left in scan 1. What do you see in the background? You can clearly see a machine beginning to power up and become operational. That is one of Imperiex's constructs which he uses for the process of "hollowing."

Now, go to scan 2 and look at the background in the small panel. What do you see? Imperiex's construct has become fully operational, and Imperiex proclaims, "Let the hollowing begin!"

Why are those machines--constructs--there and what do they do? Those are the machines that Imperiex uses to INDUCE a big bang. They are a necessary part of the process of hollowing. (I'll explain more about hollowing below.)

Now, go to scan 3 and look at what Imperiex says, "THIS IS THE FINAL PLANET IN THE CHAIN. Herein, the great task of Imperiex is completed." From this we see that not only does Imperiex actually need his machines, i.e., constructs, but he also has to destroy planets via the process of hollowing in a specific chain in order to INDUCE a big bang

Imperiex Prime has NEVER shown the ability to create a big bang on his own, but rather his constructs are necessary to start the chain reaction that eventually results in a big bang taking place. If you'll notice in my initial post, this is exactly what I stated. Imperiex absolutely does NOT casually wield the power of inducing big bangs and destroying and recreating universes. If Imperiex had this power from the beginning, he wouldn't have needed to invade the Earth at all (or any other place for that matter.) Imperiex Prime could have just snapped his fingers and, voila, big bang.

Now, go to scans 6 & 7, and you'll also see that another one of my claims is confirmed, which is that after inducing a big bang Imperiex basically goes into hibernation. Then he wakes up and the process starts all over again. In scan 6 we see Imperiex in a fetal position and in scan 7 we see Liri Lee of the Linear Men state, "Such is the paradox of this mission and in truth of all our missions. Imperiex sleeps. And when he awakens--"

So, there are 3 CRUCIAL pieces of context that you conveniently left out when you posted those scans: 1) Imperiex does NOT have the power to create a big bang; he needs to use his constructs to engage in the process of "hollowing" to induce a big bang; 2) Imperiex needs to destroy planets in a specific chain via hollowing in order to bring about a big bang; and 3) Imperiex can only use this power 1 time, because he basically goes into hibernation after he uses it.

Now, let me explain the process of hollowing and why Imperiex needs to destroy specific planets in a specific chain in order to induce a big bang. First, let me deal with the process of hollowing and what it means.

Hollowing is the process whereby either Imperiex or his Probes use constructs--the machines mentioned earlier--to turn a planet (or even a galaxy) into quanta energy so that it can be absorbed by Imperiex Prime. Here is an explanation and some examples.

The process of hollowing is mentioned and described in Wonder Woman-Our Worlds at War by a Daily Planet article (the relevant section starts at the top of the second column):

No Caption Provided

As you can see from the article, the process of hollowing involves the transmutation of planets (and, as we'll see later on, sometimes entire galaxies) into cosmic quanta energy. An example of this can be seen when Young Justice witnesses such an event in a possible future when they're time-jumping. The scans are pretty self-explanatory.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Lastly, Veridium explains what the constructs, i.e., hollowers are and how they operate:

No Caption Provided

Therefore, hollowing is the process whereby Imperiex uses machines that transform a planet (or galaxy) into cosmic quanta energy so that Imperiex can absorb said energy.

Now, let me explain why Imperiex Prime needs to destroy specific planets in a specific chain. Apparently, Earth-Prime serves as a nexus point for the DC multiverse and it's only by destroying Earth-Prime via the process of hollowing that Imperiex can actually induce a big bang. Here's the explanation:

No Caption Provided

As the old guy explains, Earth-Prime is the linchpin that holds the universe together. It keeps the integrity of the structure of the universe together. So, it's only by destroying Earth-Prime that Imperiex can induce a big bang by collapsing this nexus of reality. So, again, Imperiex Prime does NOT have the power to create a big bang and destroy/re-create the universe. He can only do this by targeting a specific nexus point which is Earth-Prime. In other words, Imperiex needs to target specific areas throughout the universe via the process of hollowing so that he can compromise the structural integrity of the universe and INDUCE a big bang.

Also, it's very important to mention this here: NO Imperiex Probes ever destroyed any galaxy. Probes using constructs destroyed a galaxy but NO Probes ever did. I think you're misunderstanding what occurred. Notice what Maxima says in this scan, "Yes, we have all seen how the 'hollowers' can annihilate a world...a galaxy in hours--" What destroyed Maxima's galaxy was NOT the Imperiex Probes but the hollower machines. The constructs grew to encompass Maxima's entire galaxy and then transmuted it into cosmic quanta energy. Remember what Veridum said in the previous scan, "Each creche continues to work and mate, and so on. Volumetric expansion at an exponential rate." Imperiex Probes by themselves do NOT possess the ability to destroy a galaxy. I might add that Imperiex Prime has never shown this ability either.

Finally, going by actual feats neither Imperiex's Probes nor Imperiex Prime is all that powerful, and they're fairly easy to defeat (all you need to do is crack the armor and they explode). Honestly, I wouldn't even say Imperiex Prime is at skyfather level. Let's take a look at all the characters who have either defeated Imperiex's Probes or Imperiex Prime himself:

1. Imperiex's Probes have been beaten by a normal, unamped Superman on several occasions: Superman defeated one with very little help from Mongul II; He defeated one after the destruction of Kansas; He defeated one when he saved Krypto; He defeated multiple Probes (it's not clear how many) when he took out several hollowing constructs on Earth; etc.

2. Wonder Woman (Diana) defeated a Probe in space when she cracked its armor, although she did get wrecked from the blast.

3. Hippolyta took out 2 Probes by herself and stopped a hollowing construct, although she subsequently died from her injuries.

4. Lois Lane's father, Sam Lane, destroyed one by igniting the nuclear core in his tank. (Yes, these probes are so weak they can even be taken out by nuclear blasts.)

5. Hell, even Young Justice was able to stall an Imperiex Probe for long enough to awaken/alert Brainiac 13!

6. Imperiex Prime immediately became helpless when an amped Superman, who by the way wasn't even that strong, cracked his suit and let out his energy. In fact, Imperiex Prime wasn't even strong enough without his suit to resist being subsumed/absorbed by Brainiac 13. And Brainiac 13 certainly isn't even skyfather level. Going by feats, Zeus would probably stomp Brainiac 13.

(If you want scans of each of these events I can provide them, but presumably you already know this since you've read the story.)

Here is an amped Superman easily breaking Imperiex Prime's containment suit and Brainiac 13 absorbing Imperiex Prime's energy form with no problem whatsoever:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

Imperiex Prime is so weak that without his containment suit, he's completely helpless, lol. So helpless, in fact, that Brainiac 13, who is slightly above herald level, can absorb Imperiex. For someone of Odin's power, who is himself a vast energy manipulator, cracking Imperiex Prime's containment suit and then absorbing him would be a piece of cake.

7. And when both Brainiac 13 and Imperiex Prime were finally defeated by an amped Superman who, again wasn't that strong, both were completely helpless and couldn't resist being sent through a transtemporal, transdimensional boom tube to the beginning of the universe, where Imperiex Prime would be trapped right after the big bang and Brainiac 13 would have his entire consciousness spread out over the universe. In fact, towards the end Imperiex Prime was crying out, "Free me."

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

Seriously, Imperiex Prime is incredibly weak. Not only was he not able to free himself from Brainiac 13 but he was scared of being sent through a boom tube to the beginning of the universe. Odin, on the other hand, can travel inter-dimensionally and manipulate time in his sleep. If Superman had tried to BFR Odin through a boom tube Odin would have closed that boom tube with a wave of his hand and then chuckled at Superman's feeble attempt.

Finally, here is the explanation for and the scans of Odin BFR'ing universe-destroying flames from Surtur. (SKIP ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.) This comes straight from one of the most respected and accomplished debaters on comicvine: killemall. As killemall explains, even though Surtur was cut off from his multiversal energy source, the remaining energy he had was still enough to destroy the 9 realms.

So, in conclusion, neither Imperiex Prime nor the Imperiex Probes are as strong as you think they are. Like I stated previously, going by feats they aren't even as strong as skyfathers like Zeus. 1) Imperiex Prime can NOT create a big bang and destroy/recreate the universe using his own power, he needs prep time, his hollower machines, and he needs to pinpoint specific nexus points to compromise the structural integrity of the universe; 2) Imperiex Prime can only do this once and then he goes into hibernation for billions and billions of years; 3) Neither Imperiex Probes nor Imperiex Prime ever destroyed a galaxy; 4) Imperiex Probes and Imperiex Prime are extremely weak (the former can be taken out by nuclear blasts and the latter got beat by an amped Superman who's not even stronger than Silver Surfer); 5) After you break their containment suits, both Imperiex Probes and Imperiex Prime are completely helpless.

Therefore, since Odin has actual feats of BFR'ing universe-destroying energy, even if Imperiex Prime could induce a big bang it wouldn't help him (even if Odin just sat around allowing Imepriex all the prep time to do so; not that Odin would do so anyway). Thus, I maintain that Odin would stomp Imperiex Prime or, at the very least, defeat him with little difficulty.

Imperiex Prime and his Imperiex Probes are all hype. Sorry to disappoint you.

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@uberhikari: you used the same arguements with me when we were debating about IP vs odin(?) and you still did not manage to work out the flaws.

first, almost your entire post is focused on how imperiex prime is not universal, but this is imperiex prime vs monarch who destroyed a universe by being released of almost all his energy, which means he is not universal too, so both can fight more evenly.

also, you left out many things.

imperiex probes vary in power. one was beaten by a nuclear blast, another beat the JLA, and another was fighting on par with zod and three others.

and here is the main, crucial thing; you left out the fact that superman was amped by KISMET, who IS a universe. so if your saying that imperiex prime is weak because superman plus the energies and power of an entire universe beat him, then I do not know what you are thinking.

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#22  Edited By Emperorb777

Imperiex

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#23  Edited By Frozen

@uberhikari: Actually, Superman was amped with The Universe when he fought Imperiex Prime.

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@frozen said:

@uberhikari: Actually, Superman was amped with The Universe when he fought Imperiex Prime.

Amped with the universe?? How does one get amped with the universe? Wasn't it Brainiac 13 who harnessed Imperex Prime's energy and Superman fought Brainiac 13 after soaking in the sun for some time? Trying to remember, been a while.

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#25  Edited By Frozen

@lordraiden: I believe he was amped with The Esence which was basically The Universe, and when he moved War World he had a 15 minutte sundip. Ironically the DC handbook IIRC claimed Imperiex Prime was Omnipotent.

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#26  Edited By uberhikari

@frozen said:

@uberhikari: Actually, Superman was amped with The Universe when he fought Imperiex Prime.

So? Imperiex has no impressive durability feats, so even if Superman was amped by Kismet you have no proof that that amount of power was actually necessary to beat Imperiex. And even Superman amped with Kismet's power has no impressive feats: all he did was take War World and throw it through a boom tube.


@van_cere

first, almost your entire post is focused on how imperiex prime is not universal, but this is imperiex prime vs monarch who destroyed a universe by being released of almost all his energy, which means he is not universal too, so both can fight more evenly.

I never said one way or another who wins. All I did was use my post as a point of clarification. I don't really know anything about Monarch, so I can't even debate in this thread.

also, you left out many things.

imperiex probes vary in power. one was beaten by a nuclear blast, another beat the JLA, and another was fighting on par with zod and three others.

I already know this, that's why I show various occasions of what it took to take out the Imperiex Probes; and it's irrelevant considering that this thread is about Imperiex Prime and not the Imperiex Probes.

and here is the main, crucial thing; you left out the fact that superman was amped by KISMET, who IS a universe. so if your saying that imperiex prime is weak because superman plus the energies and power of an entire universe beat him, then I do not know what you are thinking.

Please refer to my response to frozen above. But what's clear is this: Once you crack the suit Imperiex Prime is pretty much helpless.

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@uberhikari: What the hell dude? I didn't reply to you lol ;).

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#28  Edited By lordraiden

@frozen said:

@lordraiden: I believe he was amped with The Esence which was basically The Universe, and when he moved War World he had a 15 minutte sundip. Ironically the DC handbook IIRC claimed Imperiex Prime was Omnipotent.

Vaguely remember now. That's what I was referring to, when he sundips and flies into warworld and right through Brainiac 13! Omnipotent gets thrown around the comic world like it's cotton candy lol Odin was constantly referred to as omnipotent, Darkseid has been referred to as omnipotent! Only thing I can think of is that the writers/editors didn't know.....

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uberhikari

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@uberhikari: What the hell dude? I didn't reply to you lol ;).

LOLOL! I'm sorry. I confused you with van_cere. I could have sworn your name was attached to the post.

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#30  Edited By Frozen

@uberhikari: 'No proof' --- Imperiex lost to someone who was amped with the power of The Universe, nothing about that is a bad feat. We could say ''well he might have not needed that power'' but that's negated by the fact that is the power he was given.

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#31  Edited By Mrnoital
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This is a good match, and I think it's a bit close to call.

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#33  Edited By Sy8000

Monarch stomps.

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@frozen said:

@uberhikari: 'No proof' --- Imperiex lost to someone who was amped with the power of The Universe, nothing about that is a bad feat. We could say ''well he might have not needed that power'' but that's negated by the fact that is the power he was given.

That's not how it goes.

First, I don't think there is any dispute that Imperiex Prime has no impressive durability feats, correct?

Second, just because X amount of power was used to defeat Y character, it does not follow that X amount of power was necessary to defeat Y character, especially when there's an absence of durability feats by which to gauge whether or not said power was necessary. And just to clarify my position: I am NOT claiming that Kismet's power was not necessary to defeat Imperiex, I'm claiming that there is no evidence to support the conclusion that Kismet's power was necessary and, therefore, at best Imperiex's durability was ambiguous.

Furthermore, the argument that Superman was really amped by the power of an entire universe strikes me as unconvincing because there are no feats to suggest it. Before this Kismet was Strange Visitor and there was no evidence that Strange Visitor had universal power. So how can you just conclude by fiat that Superman amped by Kismet had universal power? The problem is that your position has no evidence to support it, according to you: Imperiex was universal because Superman is universal and we know Superman is universal because Superman was amped by Kismet. But neither Superman amped by Kismet nor Imperiex Prime have any clear feats to put them above Annihilation Silver Surfer. I mean Imperiex Prime is supposed to be some universal power but he gets absorbed by Brainiac 13? Seriously? That Kismet amping Superman stuff is just a deus ex machina: It's there to resolve a conflict in the plot but given what we know (or rather given what we don't know) about how powerful Imperiex Prime really is the resolution doesn't logically follow from the previous events. Imperiex Prime has no prior feats which suggest that universal power was necessary to stop him.

The main reason why people overrate Imperiex Prime is because even though there's no evidence to support their conclusions about his power they automatically assume that because Superman was amped by Kismet that that in-and-of-itself is confirmation that Imperiex must have been really, really powerful. And this is what leads them to ignore all the context surrounding the fact that Imperiex Prime NEVER wielded the power of a Big Bang. This is why whenever I clearly explain why Imperiex Prime is not as powerful as people think, their first impulse is to reject it even though they have no foundation to do so.

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#35  Edited By Frozen

@uberhikari: I'm not arguing Imperiex Prime was Universal at all. I'm arguing he lost to a Superman that was amped with The Universe. It's stated on panel that's the power he wields.

I'm sorry but Imperiex Prime being below Silver Surfer sounds like garbage, considering a DC roster were more often than not below the probes, and in fact it was several times reinforced teams such as the JSA did not stand a chance against Imperiex Prime itself. He's not a standard powerhouse on the level of the likes a Green Lantern, the way you're making him out to be.

Why do you actually think amped Superman, Darkseid and Kyle Rayner all went out to fight? And saying ''well, we don't know the power required to beat Imperiex'' is irrelevant, because what we know is that Superman, was not given a standard amp, he was given a super amp.

While probes have low feats (e.g. Nuke detonation), some probes have high feats. One probe smashed through the combined efforts of Kyle, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Plastic Man, Aquaman and Hawkgirl --- are you willing to say the real Imperiex could not accomplish this?

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uberhikari

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#36  Edited By uberhikari

@frozen:

I'm not arguing Imperiex Prime was Universal at all. I'm arguing he lost to a Superman that was amped with The Universe. It's stated on panel that's the power he wields.

It was never stated anywhere that Superman amped with Kismet had universal power. Here is the conversation with Kismet and the few pages that Superman was amped by her:

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The only thing Kismet said was that she was a "so-called guardian of reality," and that doesn't prove anything. And it certainly doesn't prove that Superman had universal power. Plus, it's always feats>>>>>>>>statements.

I'm sorry but Imperiex Prime being below Silver Surfer sounds like garbage, considering a DC roster were more often than not below the probes, and in fact it was several times reinforced teams such as the JSA did not stand a chance against Imperiex Prime itself. He's not a standard powerhouse on the level of the likes a Green Lantern, the way you're making him out to be.

First, I don't really care if you think it sounds like garbage. What you think doesn't matter to me, what you can prove and persuade me of using reasoning and evidence is what counts.

Second, there were multiple instances where Imperiex Probes were weaker than the JLA. In fact, Imperiex Probes are shown to be weaker than the JLA on more occasions than not. There were literally like 5 occasions where an unaided/unamped Superman beat Imperiex Probes by himself. Hell, when Wonder Woman found out that all she had to do was crack the armor, she did it with no problems. She only got knocked out because she wasn't expecting the explosion. Hippolyta took out 2 Probes by herself. And there are several other occasions.

Third, Imperiex Prime can beat the JSA. So? Beating the JSA is not impressive relative to how powerful people normally think Imperiex Prime is. And I never claimed that Imperiex Prime is on the level of GL, I said he's not even as strong as Annihilation Surfer based on feats, which is true. I mean, Imperiex Prime did one-shot Doomsday, so there's that...I guess.

Why do you actually think amped Superman, Darkseid and Kyle Rayner all went out to fight? And saying ''well, we don't know the power required to beat Imperiex'' is irrelevant, because what we know is that Superman, was not given a standard amp, he was given a super amp.

What? Your evidence for how powerful Superman was is that he wasn't given a "standard amp" but a "super amp"? That's about as vague as you can get. Tell me, how much more powerful is a "super amp" than a "standard amp"? How can you tell a "standard amp" from a "super amp"? How do you quantify the difference? And what evidence can you use to quantify the difference? You may feel that Superman was amped to high heaven, but you can't prove it. You should really be mad at the writer for this. No matter how much something is implied, if all you can point to is ambiguous stuff like the difference between a "standard amp" and a "super amp" then you don't really have a leg to stand on.

The whole situation with Superman being amped by Kismet and defeating Imperiex Prime is so ambiguous that you literally can't point to any feats to justify your feelings and assertions. Imperiex Prime himself doesn't even have more than 1 or 2 feats. You can't base an evaluation of a character's power off of that.

While probes have low feats (e.g. Nuke detonation), some probes have high feats. One probe smashed through the combined efforts of Kyle, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Plastic Man, Aquaman and Hawkgirl --- are you willing to say the real Imperiex could not accomplish this?

High feats like what? The Imperiex Probes didn't even destroy Maxima's galaxy, that was the hollower machines. And beating the JLA is really meh. I fully accept that Imperiex Prime would crush the JLA, however, I don't think doing so is as impressive as you seem to think or a lot of other people think. You really gonna try and tell me that that's more impressive than Superman Prime? Or Monarch? Admittedly I don't know much about Monarch but I know he did go toe-to-toe with Superman Prime with the guardian amp, I believe. And I know he killed a shit ton of Captain Atoms. Seriously, Imperiex Prime doesn't even have feats that put him on Odin's level.

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lol

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Dcisthebest

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Monarch is underrated bad ass

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lordraiden

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This is one sided

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ShaoKahn

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Monarch should win

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Gaoron

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Bump

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easywolf32

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Imperiex prime

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lordraiden

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Prime uses Monarch to kick start the next big bang

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mysticmedivh

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Imperiex dies.

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mr-luxcipher

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Monarch.

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lordraiden

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I'm quite sure energy/entropy can't die!

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TheKinfing

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Monarch.