Imperial Guard/Imperial Army vs Ceph/Covenant

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Imperial Guard/Imperial Army vs Ceph/Covenant

Image result for imperial guard symbolImage result for Covenant symbol

Colonel Halon Tanz Imperial Guard Forces

Infantry

100 Commissars

10,000 Ogryn

25,000 Tempestus Scions

70,000 Imperial Guard Veterans

100,000 Mordian Iron Guard Guardsmen

300,000 Standard Imperial Guardsmen

Armor

20 Chimera APCs

20 Devil Dogs

20 Hellhounds

50 Scout Sentinel

General Maximillian Veers Imperial Army Forces

Infantry

10,000 Novatroopers

20,000 Imperial jumptroopers

20,000 Shadow stormtroopers

40,000 Storm commandos

60,000 Scout troopers

60,000 Incinerator stormtroopers

100,000 Stormtroopers

400,000 Imperial Army trooper

Armor

30 All Terrain Advance Raiders

60 All Terrain Scout Transports

60 Reconnaissance Troop Transporters

Ceph Mastermind Ceph Forces

Infantry

1,000 Ceph Grunt Commanders

10,000 Ceph Guardian Units

40,000 Ceph Devastator Units

40,000 Ceph Shadows

60,000 Ceph Reavers

60,000 Ceph Stalkers

100,000 Ceph Grunts

300,000 Ceph Troopers

Armor

30 Ceph Pingers

Rtas 'Vadum Covenant Army forces

Infantry

6,000 Elite Zealots

12,000 Spec- ops Elites

10,000 Hunters

10,000 Elite Majors

60,000 Elite Minors

70,000 Skirmishers

50,000 Jackal Snipers

50,000 Jackals

200,000 Yanme'e

100,000 Grunt spec-ops

400,000 Grunts

Armor

100 Goblins

30 Shadows

30 Spectres

60 Ghosts

Rules

  • No In fighting
  • No BFR
  • Win by destroying the otherside
  • Both are bloodlusted
  • Standard gear for both sides
  • Both have their own leadership under them
  • No prep
  • Random Encounter
  • No outside interference

Environment - one starts on one side of the city, the other starts on the other side of the city

Image result for Naboo theedImage result for Naboo theedImage result for Naboo theed

Bonus Round

The Trade federation has to fight both forces off as well and they are in the middle of it. How well does the Trade Federation stand? Also they have their main army there as well, but both teams are not united.

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Covenant because I'm biased

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Could go either way.

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Ceph and covies

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DaGit

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Feel like ya need to add more vehicles. Millions of infantry... maybe a few hundred light walkers, apcs and ifvs... Doesn't... feel right. I mean.. out of like 500,000 IG.. 200 will be in a chimera... just... doesn't feel right.

Also, Scout Sentinels are trash. Can kill the driver with a pistol which can happen since this is an urban environment. At least make them armored when fighting in urban enviroments.

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@solarwavealpha: Yeah, i don't know a lot about the Ceph due to not playing Crysis 2 or 3.

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@dagit: I will make them armored, when i become non-lazy for a second! However, the ideal apcs and so on was more of a minor support, not necessary a mass troop and insert raiding tactics here. That and everyone is going to end up in a massive cluster-F due to Naboo's tight and narrow roads in general.

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@solarwavealpha: Vehicles can, and are, a massive support in urban warfare. Especially APCs and IFVs. If you have a unit pinned down eight blocks over, it is a hell of a lot faster to have a platoon respond with APC or IFV support then to try and have them leg it through a city where they can be gunned down from cross fire at any time whilst an APC or IFV will give them protection against most small arms, is a faster means of travel and they can quickly provide cover and extraction to the wounded.

I never said they all had to be mounted. But the idea that millions of infantry are engaged... but only a handful of lighter vehicles? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also, do the infantry have support weapons? Or are they all armed with their standard gun?

IE, does the Guardsmen have flamers, grenade launchers, rocket launchers, autocannons, plasma guns, etc, or are the 400,000 of them just using lasguns?

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@dagit: Well, for the IG

300,000 Standard Imperial Guardsmen - 1 out of 10 has a flamer 1 out of 15 has a nade launcher 1 out of 20 has Long-las

100,000 Mordian Iron Guard Guardsmen has the same as the standard IG, but obviously with more of them having special weapons due to lower numbers.

70,000 Imperial Guard Veterans 1 out of 5 has hot shot lasguns, 1 out of 10 nade launchers 1 out of 10 flame throwers, 1 out of 20 has long-las, 2 out of 60 has is a team of heavy weapon's team using Autocannons.

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@dagit: is it me or is that a lot of commissars.... 100? moral is going to be extremely high lol haha

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@solarwavealpha: Numbers of said weapons are nice, but I'ma just use math to see if I can figure it out:

For sake of ease, going to ignore the large numbers of command staff and squads that would be in this force. Also for sake of ease, the above is assumed a 'standard' regiment based on the codex as many regiments differ, some heavily use heavy stubbers, autoguns, etc, some have tons of plasma and other more exotic special weapons, others barely have special weaponry at all.

Will take the heavy weapons and special weapons and give them 'percentages' to see how 'often' they would appear. The more expensive and exotic the weapon, the less chance a squad would have it.

300,000 Standard Imperial Guardsmen

Special Weapons (One per squad can take a special weapon)

30,000 special weapons in total.

Sniper Rifles 30% = 9,000 Snipers

Flamers 30% = 9,000 Flamers

Grenade Launchers 30% = 9,000 Launchers

Meltaguns 5% = 1,500 Melta

Plasmaguns 5% = 1,500 Plasma

Heavy Weapons (2 per squad can take one, however, one is the ammo carrier)

30,000 Heavy Weapons in total

Mortar 30% = 9,000 Mortars

Heavy Bolter 30% = 9,000 Flamers

Autocannon 15% = 4.500 Autocannons

Missile Launcher 15% = 4,500 Launchers

Lascannon 10% = 3,000

... So... yeah. That is just the Guardsmen. The Mord and Vets also bring heavy weapons on the same level (Vets bring more special weapons and each squad can take a heavy flamer but I would just give that to a small percentage)..

so... looking at that... 9,000 Mortars... plus.. 3ish thousand from the Mord.. plus the 2000ish from the Vets...

Yeah. I would back the Imperial Guard just for the ability to turn whatever they want in the city into a barren wasteland the second anyone radios in enemy contact. And what kills infantry is not other infantry. It is artillery. :P This is why we need details in le threads.

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@killerwasp:Eh, nah, not for that many troops. If we assume each regiment has at least one commissar... There probably should be more Commissars, tbh. Commissar Lords are the rare ones.

@solarwavealpha: Didn't see your post when I made mine after dumbing it down and not wanting to write out all that I was earlier when I miss-posted. But your numbers don't really make sense and don't really account for the various other weaponry the Imperial Guard have.

The most common heavy weapon is not the autocannon. It is the mortar. Which makes sense. Mortars are dirt cheap to make. Followed by Autocannons and Heavy Bolters/Stubbers. Followed by Missile Launchers. Then Lascannons.

So... yeah, IG turn the city into a barren wasteland via mortaring every area that has enemy into dirt.. unless they have very little mortars... like... if someone were to, say, give weapon comps for the armies that would make it clearer.

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@dagit: Well I restricted mortars because the ceph do the same thing with just as less numbers. Then it just turns into a mortar bombardment and well.... Yeah.

If my numbers don't make sense then here ill be breaking it down as to what I mean.

300,000 Standard Imperial Guardsmen - 1 out of 10 has a flamer 1 out of 15 has a nade launcher 1 out of 20 has Long-las

1 out of 10 has a flamer, so there's 300,000

so 30,000 flamer throwers

1 out of 15 has nade launcher

so 20,000 nade launchers

one out of 20 has long-las

so 15,000

so 30,000+20,000+15,000 = 65,000 special weapons.

300,000 - 65,000 = 235,000 soldiers whom still have the standard lasguns

This is just for your standard IGs. I state this because other special weapons for both the Covenant and Ceph will come into play. Ceph bring some damn good weapons as well. I restricted mortars again, for the very fact that the minor invasion of M. Island, there were Ceph mortars starting to be used and considering how the General at least in crysis 2 made it sound, those weren't the only mortar encampments. Meaning more mortars and there were again normal infantry operating said mortars as well. With that said it becomes a mortar bombardment as both sides begin flinging mortars at each other and not actually really an engagement imo. Sure the Ceph might not have AS many as the IG counterparts, but they still do a great amount of damage and so on just like either side.

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#19  Edited By DaGit

@solarwavealpha: Well I restricted mortars because the ceph do the same thing with just as less numbers. Then it just turns into a mortar bombardment and well.... Yeah.

It.. would just resemble a real battlefield.

300,000 Standard Imperial Guardsmen - 1 out of 10 has a flamer 1 out of 15 has a nade launcher 1 out of 20 has Long-las

Where are the plasma and meltaguns?

This is just for your standard IGs.

Uh.. standard IG regiments do have squad and platoon level heavy weapon teams. Unless they are specifically light infantry regiments and they still do have heavy weapons in their platoons.

I state this because other special weapons for both the Covenant and Ceph will come into play

Obviously. It does for the GE as well. Isn't like they don't bring special weaponry as well.

You need weaponry to really determine an engagement. Equipment means just as much, if not more, then the type of infantry engaged.

Ceph bring some damn good weapons as well. I restricted mortars again, for the very fact that the minor invasion of M. Island, there were Ceph mortars starting to be used and considering how the General at least in crysis 2 made it sound, those weren't the only mortar encampments. Meaning more mortars and there were again normal infantry operating said mortars as well. With that said it becomes a mortar bombardment as both sides begin flinging mortars at each other and not actually really an engagement imo. Sure the Ceph might not have AS many as the IG counterparts, but they still do a great amount of damage and so on just like either side.

Ceph infantry carried mortars don't have impressive range nor the damage potential or quantity of the IG, so, yeah, the IG still bombard everything they want into dirt and then walk over it.

Didn't answer the heavy weapon question.

Autocannons are not the most common heavy weapon. That would be heavy stubbers (Heavy Machine Guns as we know them) and heavy bolters. Autocannons tend to be 20mm guns and above. They aren't machine guns so much as.. you know.. autocannons. Then Missile Launchers and finally Lascannons which won't be very useful considering vehicles are so rare and even heavy bolters can threaten, kill or mission kill most vehicles here.

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@dagit:

It.. would just resemble a real battlefield.

It would, but then if everything just gets stomped down to the ground, why even make an engagement in the first place? Granted I could give the Ceph and Covies their mortars and so on. However, Mortars I usually don't count not even in locust threads to which they are known to use and just about any other sci fi race. I was trying to create more of a street/urban combat rather than "lets just blow naboo up!" If this seems lacking balance so on you're more than welcome to PM me each fight so we can work on balancing and so on. I'm not in depth knowledgeable about every sci fi, but I hope and would like to think I have a basic or minor understanding of how all their armies and navies work. If they don't I create threads and cavs for this very reason.

Where are the plasma and meltaguns?

We both know those are simply too op.

Uh.. standard IG regiments do have squad and platoon level heavy weapon teams. Unless they are specifically light infantry regiments and they still do have heavy weapons in their platoons.

You're right, but I didn't really bother to add those in.

Obviously. It does for the GE as well. Isn't like they don't bring special weaponry as well.

You need weaponry to really determine an engagement. Equipment means just as much, if not more, then the type of infantry engaged.

True, but I was going with the conscious everyone brought more hand held weaponry such as the lasgun and so on. I understood IG brought flamers, meltas, etc. However I didn't think they used them as much ( mostly plasma guns and meltas )

Ceph infantry carried mortars don't have impressive range nor the damage potential or quantity of the IG, so, yeah, the IG still bombard everything they want into dirt and then walk over it.

How good is IG mortars? Was talking with KW and in the books they are blowing buildings up with them I guess. I'd have to ask him for the quote. Never the less still a damage output would be great to know.

Didn't answer the heavy weapon question.

Mind restating real quick

Autocannons are not the most common heavy weapon. That would be heavy stubbers (Heavy Machine Guns as we know them) and heavy bolters. Autocannons tend to be 20mm guns and above. They aren't machine guns so much as.. you know.. autocannons. Then Missile Launchers and finally Lascannons which won't be very useful considering vehicles are so rare and even heavy bolters can threaten, kill or mission kill most vehicles here.

I should of replaced them with heavy stubbers, my apologizes.

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@solarwavealpha: It would, but then if everything just gets stomped down to the ground, why even make an engagement in the first place? Granted I could give the Ceph and Covies their mortars and so on. However, Mortars I usually don't count not even in locust threads to which they are known to use and just about any other sci fi race. I was trying to create more of a street/urban combat rather than "lets just blow naboo!"

But that is what happens in warfare. Artillery is incredibly effective. You can lessen the damage with 'they want to take Naboo intact' meaning they will only fire precision rather then just carpet blank everything.

Its not as dramatic as soldiers fighting WW1 style, but it is what happens.

We both know those are simply too op.

In large numbers, sure, but mine, for example, only 1,500 or so even had plasma or meltaguns out of 300,000 (which is like... %0.5 percent of them, combined melta and plasma makes 1%, insert top one percent joke here). They are very potent weapons. They aren't 'instakill' squads.. save for the melta and only if they stood super close together (but then a flamer or grenade launcher could also achieve the same in that scenario). Both have their weakness, Plasma with overheating and making you hilarious visible, Melta with its short range and its 'Shoot that guy' target painted on the back.

Would be like saying the occasional grunt can't get a fuel rod because it is simply too op compared to a standard covie plasma rifle.

You're right, but I didn't really bother to add those in.

But then I don't really have to bother to give you much of an answer. See how that goes both ways?

I promise that if you put a lot of effort into your OP, I will put a lot of effort into my answer. I like sci-fi army vs sci-fi army threads and I am glad you are doing them.

If you list the weapons and kits for armies, really go into detail with it, I will go into detail with my post. Will write you a bloody essay if required even contemplate on how each faction will likely approach the situation. But.. if you make a super general thread with just a shrug as to the real composition, you can't really get a really solid answer.

True, but I was going with the conscious everyone brought more hand held weaponry such as the lasgun and so on. I understood IG brought flamers, meltas, etc. However I didn't think they used them as much ( mostly plasma guns and meltas )

Those are rare. Hence, when I did the numbers above, it came out to only 1% of those 300,000 had access to plasma and melta weaponry. (Again, the percentages I just applied without any real basis besides them being 'rare'.) They aren't super common, but 1% isn't common. At all. There are more Autocannons, Missile Launchers and even Lascannons then I had plasma or melta in there.

How good is IG mortars? Was talking with KW and in the books they are blowing buildings up with them I guess. I'd have to ask him for the quote.

Building level. They aren't any better then modern mortars, tbh. But modern mortars.. are better then most sci-fi game faction mortars because range is hilariously limited in them and we usually don't have real examples of their range outside of gameplay.

Mind restating real quick

Only mentioned heavy stubbers. They do have other heavy weaponry.

I should of replaced them with heavy stubbers, my apologizes.

I figured you meant the HMG ones which is why I clarified the stubber's purpose.

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@solarwavealpha: Kay, this is the only thing I think that was added in that I really need to look over:

If this seems lacking balance so on you're more than welcome to PM me each fight so we can work on balancing and so on. I'm not in depth knowledgeable about every sci fi, but I hope and would like to think I have a basic or minor understanding of how all their armies and navies work. If they don't I create threads and cavs for this very reason.

If you ever have a fight you aren't sure is balanced or not, you are welcome to shoot it to me to glance over, I don't mind.

Eh, you never know everything about any fiction really, at least that is how I approach it. I believe I have two lore examples of IG regiments (Tallarn and... Cadians.. I believe) on hand if you wanted to examine their general make up.

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@dagit:

But that is what happens in warfare. Artillery is incredibly effective. You can lessen the damage with 'they want to take Naboo intact' meaning they will only fire precision rather then just carpet blank everything.

Its not as dramatic as soldiers fighting WW1 style, but it is what happens.

If you ever have a fight you aren't sure is balanced or not, you are welcome to shoot it to me to glance over, I don't mind.

Eh, you never know everything about any fiction really, at least that is how I approach it. I believe I have two lore examples of IG regiments (Tallarn and... Cadians.. I believe) on hand if you wanted to examine their general make up.

No I want to see Naboo burn, just with tons of las-gun fire instead :)!

However that is a good thing to use, I think i will apply that from now on and that will help the threads for sure.

I will be sure to send you via PM then.

Agreed, but I don't wish to know every inch about a sci fi either, I feel general is good. Let the hard core fans do the deep digging and then go from there haha.

In large numbers, sure, but mine, for example, only 1,500 or so even had plasma or meltaguns out of 300,000 (which is like... %0.5 percent of them, combined melta and plasma makes 1%, insert top one percent joke here). They are very potent weapons. They aren't 'instakill' squads.. save for the melta and only if they stood super close together (but then a flamer or grenade launcher could also achieve the same in that scenario). Both have their weakness, Plasma with overheating and making you hilarious visible, Melta with its short range and its 'Shoot that guy' target painted on the back.

Would be like saying the occasional grunt can't get a fuel rod because it is simply too op compared to a standard covie plasma rifle.

Mhhh, I was under the impression Plasma guns were squad wipers and I know meltas can be, but plasmas I thought were due to the extreme heat that even near misses kill people similar to that of the bolter gun as well with it's rounds.

Actually I was thinking of not allowing the Covenant fuel rod guns because of KW's feats for them. They are borderline on plasma rifle level or so I thought.

But then I don't really have to bother to give you much of an answer. See how that goes both ways?

I promise that if you put a lot of effort into your OP, I will put a lot of effort into my answer. I like sci-fi army vs sci-fi army threads and I am glad you are doing them.

If you list the weapons and kits for armies, really go into detail with it, I will go into detail with my post. Will write you a bloody essay if required even contemplate on how each faction will likely approach the situation. But.. if you make a super general thread with just a shrug as to the real composition, you can't really get a really solid answer.

Let me rephrase, I didn't bother with adding in heavier weapons because I didn't think the IG regiments ( infantry mostly ) didn't have heavy weapon's team on such a squad based level. I thought they were more of a platoon based level or specialized regiments like cav, armored, etc. That is why I didn't with bother them, because the ones I'm using are run of the mill squads. I added the MIG infantry in hopes of them bringing weapons more suited for urban combat because that's what they specialize in along with drill and combat doctrines fitted for urban combat as well as being extremely disciplined.

Although I'm not looking for detailed answers, I honestly stopped putting in as much work and got a little sloppy because the avg viner on here doesn't even bother to post an answer. Whether they are small squad fights or army battles alike. Hence my lack of details.

True, but I come with the understanding that everyone has a general idea of what the weapon's comp is going to be like. An example of this would be lets say we take a squad of UNSC marines, we know they carry some type of assault rifle, each marine has a couple of grenades, they bring a couple of mags with them, one or two marines might have a different weapon which might be a sniper rifle, rocket launcher, or some other weapon, but as a whole that's what we have. So if we was to put lets say 300,000 UNSC marines against lets say 200,000 ork shootas we'd come with the basic understanding of what they want. If you want a more detailed approach on this I'm always willing to go that extra mile. I just happen to not put in the work because most people detailed or not will give short answers. Which is okay with me, if I want a more detailed answer or a reason why you believe said team will win, then I will happily do so. It's just what I've observed from this site though. IF I was on let's say reddit where details can matter and people do want them, I tend to make them more detailed.

If you want more detailed ops, I'd happily do so like we are trying to do right now. However, I can't do it alone due to my lack of specialized knowledge on every sci fi faction I post. Which is why I'm asking for your help if we wish this op to be more detailed.

Those are rare. Hence, when I did the numbers above, it came out to only 1% of those 300,000 had access to plasma and melta weaponry. (Again, the percentages I just applied without any real basis besides them being 'rare'.) They aren't super common, but 1% isn't common. At all. There are more Autocannons, Missile Launchers and even Lascannons then I had plasma or melta in there.

Honestly I thought they were even more rare than that, considering space marines don't generally get them in mass as well. I thought commissars and higher ranking people attached to the IG regiments would have them.

Building level. They aren't any better then modern mortars, tbh. But modern mortars.. are better then most sci-fi game faction mortars because range is hilariously limited in them and we usually don't have real examples of their range outside of gameplay.

Yeah, I completely understand on that reason. Ceph though were mimicing our very own tactics and weaponry alike but of course making improvements in areas we lacked in. Example a weapon that never runs out of ammo, while ours does, rounds that hit harder than ours does, etc. Their mortars prolly have the same range as our tbh judging from what we've seen and of course what's been discussed.

Only mentioned heavy stubbers. They do have other heavy weaponry.

I was going for more heavy stubbers and in fact I could add more, but the rest would be too much for the Ceph and Covenant imo. Unless you think not?

I figured you meant the HMG ones which is why I clarified the stubber's purpose.

I did, thank you very much!

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DaGit

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@solarwavealpha: Mhhh, I was under the impression Plasma guns were squad wipers and I know meltas can be, but plasmas I thought were due to the extreme heat that even near misses kill people similar to that of the bolter gun as well with it's rounds.

Eh, strongest I have seen is dusting two CSMs (or was it three?) but that was a max power shot. In general, Chaos Plasma > Space Marine Plasma > Imperial Guard Plasma. Plasma has different power and quantum states. Chaos Marines being Chaos use a super potent plasma because they are crazy and don't care about it exploding. Space Marines are hardcore so use a potent one. IG use a tamer version of it since they like to live and generally aren't surviving it overheating if it does.

The miss of a bolter round pulping organs is more of a very high end bolter showing then the standard.

Actually I was thinking of not allowing the Covenant fuel rod guns because of KW's feats for them. They are borderline on plasma rifle level or so I thought.

More like a rocket launcher/grenade launcher in purpose.

Let me rephrase, I didn't bother with adding in heavier weapons because I didn't think the IG regiments ( infantry mostly ) didn't have heavy weapon's team on such a squad based level. I thought they were more of a platoon based level or specialized regiments like cav, armored, etc. That is why I didn't with bother them, because the ones I'm using are run of the mill squads. I added the MIG infantry in hopes of them bringing weapons more suited for urban combat because that's what they specialize in along with drill and combat doctrines fitted for urban combat as well as being extremely disciplined.

Nah, they use a lot of heavy weapons. Like the 12th Tallarn Light Infantry, a light infantry mind, has 6 mortars per infantry company. The regiment has nine companies. That is 54 mortars for just that light infantry regiment and each rifle platoon command has a missile launcher as part of it.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/cd/12th_Tallarn_LIC.jpg

^ link towards the image of the company break down (the 12th regiment has nine of those) comes from IA...III I believe.

Although I'm not looking for detailed answers, I honestly stopped putting in as much work and got a little sloppy because the avg viner on here doesn't even bother to post an answer. Whether they are small squad fights or army battles alike. Hence my lack of details.

Eh, I find the avg viner's post to be worth about as much as piss in the desert. I would rather have a few people post good, solid post in any threads I make then 100 crappy avg viner post.

True, but I come with the understanding that everyone has a general idea of what the weapon's comp is going to be like. An example of this would be lets say we take a squad of UNSC marines, we know they carry some type of assault rifle, each marine has a couple of grenades, they bring a couple of mags with them, one or two marines might have a different weapon which might be a sniper rifle, rocket launcher, or some other weapon, but as a whole that's what we have.

More like people don't want to really give it that much thought. So they find one or two facets that make them think a side wins and stick to that.

So if we was to put lets say 300,000 UNSC marines against lets say 200,000 ork shootas we'd come with the basic understanding of what they want. If you want a more detailed approach on this I'm always willing to go that extra mile. I just happen to not put in the work because most people detailed or not will give short answers. Which is okay with me, if I want a more detailed answer or a reason why you believe said team will win, then I will happily do so. It's just what I've observed from this site though. IF I was on let's say reddit where details can matter and people do want them, I tend to make them more detailed.

I love details. Devil is in the details.

Shootas only really have three options, heavy shootas and burnas. Making them very easy. Imperial Guard and Marines, however, have a very large list of weapons and weapon combinations they can employ making tactics, terrain and equipment incredibly important.

If you want more detailed ops, I'd happily do so like we are trying to do right now. However, I can't do it alone due to my lack of specialized knowledge on every sci fi faction I post. Which is why I'm asking for your help if we wish this op to be more detailed.

I don't mind assisting. I work from noon to midnight, so I can only post late night or early morning, however.

Honestly I thought they were even more rare than that, considering space marines don't generally get them in mass as well. I thought commissars and higher ranking people attached to the IG regiments would have them.

Nah, that is about as rare as they are. Power weaponry are far rarer then plasma weaponry. (Although Dark Angels have a lot of plasma weaponry)

For instance, in the Tallarn 12th I linked above, they had more plasma weaponry in their company then they had flamers or grenade launchers and had as many meltas as they had flamers and grenade launchers. Just depends on the regiment.

Yeah, I completely understand on that reason. Ceph though were mimicing our very own tactics and weaponry alike but of course making improvements in areas we lacked in. Example a weapon that never runs out of ammo, while ours does, rounds that hit harder than ours does, etc. Their mortars prolly have the same range as our tbh judging from what we've seen and of course what's been discussed.

Depends. Energy has a nasty habit of dispersing once released. Meaning the range very likely could be far less. Also their mortars didn't have much in the way of ammunition. The X-Pac being the only infantry mortar I recall from Crysis.

I was going for more heavy stubbers and in fact I could add more, but the rest would be too much for the Ceph and Covenant imo. Unless you think not?

Not really. None of the IG heavy weapons are deal breakers. They all have their pros and cons.

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@dagit:

Eh, strongest I have seen is dusting two CSMs (or was it three?) but that was a max power shot. In general, Chaos Plasma > Space Marine Plasma > Imperial Guard Plasma. Plasma has different power and quantum states. Chaos Marines being Chaos use a super potent plasma because they are crazy and don't care about it exploding. Space Marines are hardcore so use a potent one. IG use a tamer version of it since they like to live and generally aren't surviving it overheating if it does.

The miss of a bolter round pulping organs is more of a very high end bolter showing then the standard.

Good to know on both.

More like a rocket launcher/grenade launcher in purpose.

I just meant with the super heated aoe and such is all. I thought IG plasma rifles were better than rod fuel guns and such as well.

Nah, they use a lot of heavy weapons. Like the 12th Tallarn Light Infantry, a light infantry mind, has 6 mortars per infantry company. The regiment has nine companies. That is 54 mortars for just that light infantry regiment and each rifle platoon command has a missile launcher as part of it.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/cd/12th_Tallarn_LIC.jpg

^ link towards the image of the company break down (the 12th regiment has nine of those) comes from IA...III I believe.

Alright, and Tallern represents all other IGs correct or no?

Eh, I find the avg viner's post to be worth about as much as piss in the desert. I would rather have a few people post good, solid post in any threads I make then 100 crappy avg viner post.

Either way I don't get any haha. I don't necessary care for the quality, because even if I had a few good people go into detail, they won't know every sci fi battle I will post which means there's going to prolly be none.

More like people don't want to really give it that much thought. So they find one or two facets that make them think a side wins and stick to that.

Mhh, so people don't look at their standard gear?

I love details. Devil is in the details.

Shootas only really have three options, heavy shootas and burnas. Making them very easy. Imperial Guard and Marines, however, have a very large list of weapons and weapon combinations they can employ making tactics, terrain and equipment incredibly important.

Fair enough, but I mean even most regular IG guardsmen have a break down for the individual. Cardboard armor, flash light with a couple of mags, a nade or two if they're lucky. I mean others will have better equipment and so on, but yeah. I kind of thought they were similar to let say Stormies or UNSC marines in the sense the individual as a whole doesn't carry much

I don't mind assisting. I work from noon to midnight, so I can only post late night or early morning, however.

Yeah I'm in no rush, I just like making ops all people enjoy.

Nah, that is about as rare as they are. Power weaponry are far rarer then plasma weaponry. (Although Dark Angels have a lot of plasma weaponry)

For instance, in the Tallarn 12th I linked above, they had more plasma weaponry in their company then they had flamers or grenade launchers and had as many meltas as they had flamers and grenade launchers. Just depends on the regiment.

Agreed, but the avg joe IG regiments?

Depends. Energy has a nasty habit of dispersing once released. Meaning the range very likely could be far less. Also their mortars didn't have much in the way of ammunition. The X-Pac being the only infantry mortar I recall from Crysis.

I wasn't referring to handheld mortars, I was referring to mortar teams in Crysis 2 as was KW in a novel version of it so to speak.

Not really. None of the IG heavy weapons are deal breakers. They all have their pros and cons.

Ah okay, first warhammer I've met that doesn't think the IG don't walk all over the covies and ceph.

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@dagit: well I was expecting 80 cause well like what? Per 5,000 there one commissar lol

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#28  Edited By DaGit

@solarwavealpha:

I just meant with the super heated aoe and such is all. I thought IG plasma rifles were better than rod fuel guns and such as well.

Nah, if you want super heated AoE, you use a Plasma Cannon. Not a plasmagun. Plasmaguns are more meant for single shot (you know, one kill per shot) anti-heavy infantry/light vehicles (they can pen the rear armor of leman russ tanks and the like though).

Alright, and Tallern represents all other IGs correct or no?

You cannot represent all other IGs. It simply isn't possible. Unlike, say, the Imperial Army or the Covenant, they don't have a unified doctrine or combat standard. You can have IG who use lasguns that were used by their great, great, great, great, great grandfathers and enter battles with their dress uniforms. You have IG who are covered in carapace armor and are monsterously good. You have super human catachans. Etc There is no 'one size fits all' with the IG. The most 'common' interpretation that is used by GW is the Cadians. If you want to see the other regiment make ups, I can get them for you. Believe there are two cadian ones, that Tallarn one.. and maybe the drop troopers?

Mhh, so people don't look at their standard gear?

More that 'standard gear' is just a lasgun. which we already pointed out isn't what it is. The other weapons are even called 'heavy' and 'special' weapons. Special, by default, cannot be called standard. Weaponry break ups makes a big difference. If left to us, for example, I can point to the ludicrous amount of artillery the IG infantry regiments bring and they win just by blowing up whatever part of the city proves to be annoying. "Oh, there is a group of invisible aliens murdering a platoon at section C-32? Well, blow it up. All of it."

Fair enough, but I mean even most regular IG guardsmen have a break down for the individual. Cardboard armor, flash light with a couple of mags, a nade or two if they're lucky. I mean others will have better equipment and so on, but yeah. I kind of thought they were similar to let say Stormies or UNSC marines in the sense the individual as a whole doesn't carry much

They actually don't. Some regiments are even noted for using old, outdated lasguns having carapace armor or even using autoguns instead of lasguns. They are not like the UNSc marines or Stormtroopers were there is a uniformed 'form' to them. The very nature of how the Imperium works and how the IG recruitment is (very much like feudalism levies), they come in all shapes and sizes and the reason they do this is to let you have 'freedom' and 'customization' with your armies but the codex goes to great pains in showing you the various different uniforms, weaponry, doctrines, etc, all these units use and yet are all 'Imperial Guard'.

The common 'example' used is the Cadian Guardsmen.

Agreed, but the avg joe IG regiments?

Avg joe ig regiments don't exist.

Given Tallarn is a desert planet, not a forge or armoury world, I see no reason why they would have an abundance of special weaponry. They are just the Lawrence of Arabia style IG group.

I wasn't referring to handheld mortars, I was referring to mortar teams in Crysis 2 as was KW in a novel version of it so to speak.

Never seen those.

Ah okay, first warhammer I've met that doesn't think the IG don't walk all over the covies and ceph.

Their infantry certainly doesn't.

@killerwasp ehh, if we assume each regiment is exactly 5,000..

300,000 = 60

100,000 = 20

10,000 = 2

70,000 Imperial Guard Veterans = 14

Then it comes out to be around 96, so pretty close. Don't recall if Scions regiments have commissars attached or not. But the Vets and Ogrs would be part of the other regiments and so would be counted for the 'how many commissars' count and it isn't all that uncommon for some regiments to have multiple commissars and many generals and what not will have commissars attached to their retinue. Like in the Cain Novels, the new IG unit they raised had two commissars attached to it. (Cain is a Commissar Lord, just doesn't call himself that, so he doesn't share).

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@dagit: well yeah Cain is no regular commissar it's quite clear why that is and ofc his rank never really is mentioned cause he likes to be on the front like killing Xenos and stuff rather than executing guardsmen Xd

Also every regiment is 5,000 exactly don't be a heretic! Huehue

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#30  Edited By DaGit

@killerwasp: Vail mentions that he is a Commissar Lord in one of her notes in one of the novels (can't recall which yet), but said he never referred to himself as such because, you know, fake humble.

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@dagit: Been extremely busy sorry for the late reply!

Nah, if you want super heated AoE, you use a Plasma Cannon. Not a plasmagun. Plasmaguns are more meant for single shot (you know, one kill per shot) anti-heavy infantry/light vehicles (they can pen the rear armor of leman russ tanks and the like though).

Good to know.

You cannot represent all other IGs. It simply isn't possible. Unlike, say, the Imperial Army or the Covenant, they don't have a unified doctrine or combat standard. You can have IG who use lasguns that were used by their great, great, great, great, great grandfathers and enter battles with their dress uniforms. You have IG who are covered in carapace armor and are monsterously good. You have super human catachans. Etc There is no 'one size fits all' with the IG. The most 'common' interpretation that is used by GW is the Cadians. If you want to see the other regiment make ups, I can get them for you. Believe there are two cadian ones, that Tallarn one.. and maybe the drop troopers?

If you have the time, Ill create a PM later after this response. I got a question anyway, true but there's always that one fodder IG icon soldier we always see, and all I see him with is flak armor, lasgun, and I'd assume off image a nade and mags for his lasgun. I'd think that'd be Cadians then if that was correct?

Image result for Imperial guardsman

More that 'standard gear' is just a lasgun. which we already pointed out isn't what it is. The other weapons are even called 'heavy' and 'special' weapons. Special, by default, cannot be called standard. Weaponry break ups makes a big difference. If left to us, for example, I can point to the ludicrous amount of artillery the IG infantry regiments bring and they win just by blowing up whatever part of the city proves to be annoying. "Oh, there is a group of invisible aliens murdering a platoon at section C-32? Well, blow it up. All of it."

True just from what I remember from lore aspect they formed volley lines and so on, so thats why I never considered it so to speak.

They actually don't. Some regiments are even noted for using old, outdated lasguns having carapace armor or even using autoguns instead of lasguns. They are not like the UNSc marines or Stormtroopers were there is a uniformed 'form' to them. The very nature of how the Imperium works and how the IG recruitment is (very much like feudalism levies), they come in all shapes and sizes and the reason they do this is to let you have 'freedom' and 'customization' with your armies but the codex goes to great pains in showing you the various different uniforms, weaponry, doctrines, etc, all these units use and yet are all 'Imperial Guard'.

The common 'example' used is the Cadian Guardsmen.

Avg joe ig regiments don't exist.

Given Tallarn is a desert planet, not a forge or armoury world, I see no reason why they would have an abundance of special weaponry. They are just the Lawrence of Arabia style IG group.

Good to know, I'll make sure I conclude with flashlight platoons only. :)

Never seen those.

Yeah they can fire from IIRC 2-5 miles away easily, as they had no issues landing said shots and knocking down said buildings IIRC. However, even with that range can be limited more maybe. They aren't an actual weapon you can grab, but their infantry used it. From what KW was telling me before the Ceph were adapting to such stuff and so on.

Their infantry certainly doesn't.

Alright well that's great you and another user named @wut seemed pretty good and knowledge about sci fis and warhammer, so that's good. It's a shame he's not here both of you would of been nice for making matches but meh you seem like a very nice and knowledge person.

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#32  Edited By DaGit

@solarwavealpha:

If you have the time, Ill create a PM later after this response. I got a question anyway, true but there's always that one fodder IG icon soldier we always see, and all I see him with is flak armor, lasgun, and I'd assume off image a nade and mags for his lasgun. I'd think that'd be Cadians then if that was correct?

The Guardsmen Uplifting Primer in... I think Only War has all their basic equipment. I can probably find it if you want. They tend to have other, non-combat related gear, but for the most part, that is the standard 'Cadian'.

True just from what I remember from lore aspect they formed volley lines and so on, so thats why I never considered it so to speak.

Depends on the Regiment. Some fight like WW1 soldiers, making trenchs and volley firing with the occasional bayonet charge. Some fight like WW2 others fight more modern based small squad tactics even breaking up into small fire teams.

Just depends.

Yeah they can fire from IIRC 2-5 miles away easily, as they had no issues landing said shots and knocking down said buildings IIRC. However, even with that range can be limited more maybe. They aren't an actual weapon you can grab, but their infantry used it. From what KW was telling me before the Ceph were adapting to such stuff and so on.

Not bad.

Alright well that's great you and another user named @wut seemed pretty good and knowledge about sci fis and warhammer, so that's good. It's a shame he's not here both of you would of been nice for making matches but meh you seem like a very nice and knowledge person.

You're the second person to say that. Lol going to take it as a compliment.

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@dagit:

The Guardsmen Uplifting Primer in... I think Only War has all their basic equipment. I can probably find it if you want. They tend to have other, non-combat related gear, but for the most part, that is the standard 'Cadian'.

Good to know, I'm glad that's cleared. I mostly played the DoW games and read a few books, so yes good to know!

Depends on the Regiment. Some fight like WW1 soldiers, making trenchs and volley firing with the occasional bayonet charge. Some fight like WW2 others fight more modern based small squad tactics even breaking up into small fire teams.

Just depends.

I've noticed ha.

You're the second person to say that. Lol going to take it as a compliment.

Really? Huh, that's weird, yeah no here's a few threads wut was in or made comments on in detail that were of mine.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/scifi-squad-tourny-darkdefender-vs-wut-1781858/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/skaven-and-goblins-vs-orcish-horde-1795823/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/sisters-of-battle-vs-spartans-doomguy-1794144/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/scwhme-vs-swhalomgs-1786095/

Nothing to really look at just a person who can be in depth as well. In other threads with battles him and KW can be in depth if they ever decided they were wanting to be.

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#35  Edited By john_7547

@solarwavealpha: you forgot the Covenant Banshees , Wraiths , phantom drop ships. I'm not going to go into all of the equipment you didn't mention. But I will say 400,000 grunts is a fraction of a fraction of what they can field realistically speaking. And I'm pretty sure the Covenant and Ceph forces will win.

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@john_7547: I didn't add them, because this was mostly an infantry engagement. It's why I also didn't give team 1 Lemun Russ battle tanks.