In the dark, deep wildlands of the ever-expanding web known as ComicVine exist multiple secret societies. Some of these societies exist to troll users of differing opinions. Some of these societies secretly plan out threads that are as entertaining as they are baiting. Yet others of these societies give you the best of what ComicVine has to offer on a weekly/bi-weekly basis.
But what happens when two of these titanic societies collide? What happens when a group of friends pretending to have a cool name on ComicVine combines with members of the Battle Boards' friendly neighborhood delivery men? You get an even more secretive society known only as the "Illuminati". Together, these souls talk all things comics, ComicVine, Battle Boards, CaVs, Tournaments, and everything in between.
However, there was a challenge. A certain titan wanted to 4v1 to prove his worth as a teambuster. Failing to agree on some levels, he was joined by a certain wannabe vet to take on the newer generation of could-be greats. Now you'll get to witness the long-awaited clash that you didn't know you wanted: the ComicVine PM CaV between two brave Daily Debaters and four braver Hookers.
Since birth, Thor Odinson was destined for greatness, even among the very gods themselves. The son of Odin, the All-Father, and Jord/Gaea, an Elder God, Thor was burdened with glorious purpose - to end the reign of Those Who Sit Above In Shadow, the mysterious figures who played with gods as pawns and were responsible for the endless cycles of birth and cataclysmic destruction known as Ragnarok, and who even all-powerful Odin was powerless to stop. To ready him for this impossible task, Odin made sure Thor spent millenia learning humility and nobility - proving himself worthy of the enchanted uru hammer Mjolnir, spending some time in the form of a human, and even fighting alongside the Earth's Avengers as a founding member. But then, disaster struck. Odin was killed in combat with the fire demon Surtur. After inheriting the Odinforce, it was time for Thor to embrace his destiny. To do this, Thor needed even greater power than his late father ever had. But power comes through sacrifice. Thor plucked out both his eyes to gain mystical runic power from the well of Mimir, and hung himself for days until he reached the very brink of death, beating it and evolving past death itself. Sacrificing himself and the Asgardians to stop the dark puppetmaster, Thor became one with the very cosmos.
But then he came back. The Earth still needed the Mighty Thor, and he couldn''t leave the mortals unprotected. Resurrecting himself through sheer willpower, Thor returned to Earth, bringing Asgard back to life with him. Despite having fulfilled his ultimate purpose, Thor continues fighting for both of his peoples, wielding the power of the storm to good use as the Scion of Asgard!
The Mightiest Avenger: Physical Showings
As one of the strongest beings on Earth, Thor is a true physical powerhouse. He can go toe-to-toe with the best of the best in contests of sheer strength - and when I say the best, I mean it. No better example exists than Thor's friendly arm-wrestling contest with fellow immortal Hercules. Not only are they evenly matched, but the shockwaves of their clash generate calamitous effects for the entire planet, shattering large plateaus and even throwing the planet out of orbit!
Considering that Hercules has multiple planetary strength showings (in addition to this one), including even lifting a planet over his head, this should solidify Thor's credentials as a planetary powerhouse.
This sheer power applies to Thor's battle prowess as well, as can be seen in his battle with the Incredible Hulk (pre-Sakaar) himself.
Thor decides to shed Mjolnir to make it a fair fight, and the two go at it. Most notably, we see Thor overpowering Hulk by lifting him straight off his feet, dumping enough rubble on Hulk to keep him under, and then, in a fit of rage, one-shotting the rubble which Hulk was unable to free himself from, in addition to tanking all of Hulk's blows. We can truly see the physical power Thor has, even without Mjolnir to enhance his striking and his powers.
Finally, Thor's battle with the cosmic challenger himself, Beta Ray Bill, provides a good indicator for the sheer amount of power flowing through the God of Thunder's veins, despite being stripped from Mjolnir.
The mere shockwaves of their clash topple mountains and level the landscape around them in an awesome display of sheer destructive power, while Thor takes the full might of Beta Ray Bill's best strikes. The two heroes are as evenly matched as it gets, and the very planet around them suffers for it.
While these feats are far from the best Thor has to offer, I'm confident that Thor's catastrophic might can turn the tide of battle in the favor of my team - and I've yet to even use feats where Thor had Mjolnir. Planetary strength for use in grapples, in combination with striking that can one-shot structures the Hulk can't free himself from and level mountain with the cataclysmic side effects of his blows should definitely be tough for Heracles and Iceman to handle.
More relevant to this CAV perhaps is Thor's battle with the Sentry, a flying brick with some similar powers to Heracles (albeit at a lesser level).
At first, we see Thor tank a bullrush from Sentry and then straight up one-shot him with a Mjolnir strike. When a mentally unstable Sentry on the verge of going Void rematches Thor, Thor tanks another bullrush. In terms of striking, Thor is able to hurt even the Void, but most impressive is when his lightning strike literally disintegrates much of Sentry's body, revealing the monstrous presence of the Void underneath. And with that, let's get to Thor's true claim to divinity - his command over the power of the storm!
Divine Wrath: Lightning & Weather Manipulation
Burning away the Sentry's entire physical body with a single blast of lightning is extremely impressive, but it's far from being an outlier for Thor. In fact, the storms he can summon have one-shotted an impressive list of high tiers multiple times in the past as well. Casual lightning bolts of his have been able to one-shot pre-Sakaar Hulk (Incredible Hulk Annual 2001) and his mightiest storms, capable of literally cracking Jotenheim like an egg, have been been powerful enough that just their aftermath can knock out post-Breach Hulk (Indestructible Hulk #8). He's also been able to completely shatter a secondary adamantium Ultron model which could no-sell the attacks of an entire Avengers team (Avengers Vol. 3 #21/22), and even one-shot himself, despite his own godly might (Prince of Power #4)!
The power of Thor's weather manipulation does not solely rely on scaling, however. Thor has plenty of quantifiable feats which show his weather manipulation is planetary in terms of power.
For instance, an example which shows off not just the power and range of Thor's weather manipulation, but his strength, is when Thor literally pushes a shattered world together in order to mend it with a planet-wide storm.
In terms of power output though, it's definitely outclassed by the following feat, where Thor summons a storm powerful enough to stop and literally overpower a beam of energy capable of affecting and destroying an entire planet!
However, Thor still has better. One of his best damage output feats with lightning comes not in a moment of rage, but love, as his union with a storm goddess accidentally releases enough power to nearly split the Earth in two!
Well, those feats should cover Thor's damage output, but in order to truly appreciate the range of Thor's weather manipulation abilities, few feats can make the case better than the following instance where Thor unleashes the full force of his storm to try and save Odin. Even though Thor is on Asgard, the storm is so powerful that it affects multiple worlds far far away, including the Earth, where Thor's winds collapse skyscrapers and topple mountains. Odin specifically implies that Thor did damage to multiple lands and multiple worlds.
In the face of such power, I find it hard to believe that Heracles and Iceman will be able to easily tank Thor's weather attacks. Now, before you argue that Heracles, for example, can just dodge Thor's lightning by virtue of being a lot quicker than natural lightning, let me stop you right there. First of all, Thor's lightning and storm attacks clearly have far greater range than regular attacks, as shown by the planetary+ storms Thor has been able to conjure up above. Furthermore, Thor's lightning has multiple feats showing it travels far quicker than regular lightning, being able to span cosmic distances instantaneously.
For example, here is a good feat where Thor summons lightning across vast cosmic distances to break down an interdimensional magical barrier created by Odin.
He's also been able to summon lightning that was able to travel a distance comparable to Cosmic Cube Thanos' height - which dwarfed planets.
Heck, even Unworthy Thor was able to emit a lightning AOE from his hands that instantly spanned the radius of Collector's ship (which Beta Ray Bill said was large enough to hold a small solar system) and BFRed Hela, Black Swan, and Proxima Midnight into the far reaches of the cosmos.
And if the speed and range of Thor's lightning and storm-based attacks wasn't enough to ensure he can tag your team, how about the fact that he can emit omni-directional lightning directly from his body, whenever he so chooses? This goes from emitting lightning bolts from all over his body all the way to literally surrounding himself in pure electrical energy.
Overall, I just can't see how your team will be able to either tank or avoid Thor's storm-based attacks, based upon their consistent feats of power, range, speed, and versatility of use - though I'm sure this will end up being further argued upon during the course of this debate.
Have at Thee: Preliminary Arguments and Strategy
Versus Death Seed Iceman:
I don't see how Iceman will really do much to Thor if I'm being honest. In the comic (Astonishing X-Men Vol. 3 #64/65), Iceman only ever beat Thor by surprising him and catching him unawares with a stealth/surprise attack. If Thor is aware of Iceman's presence, there's no way Iceman would be fast enough to capture him, and Iceman has no other way to really hurt Thor. Even if Iceman does capture Thor, the presence of Firelord on my team should be more than enough to get Thor out.
On the other hand, I believe Thor can be quite useful against Iceman. If Bobby tries to cover the battlefield in fodder clones, Thor can just one-shot them all at once with powerful AOEs. If Bobby attempts to force a single, more powerful ice avatar, I still believe Thor can do some serious damage, given how Bobby's main avatar was hurt by Gambit and then one-shot by Thor (which led to Bobby losing the Death Seed). Thor also took down Mystique with a single lightning blast when she had the Death Seed in the same story arc, so I think that's meant to be consistent.
Of course, I'm no Iceman expert so I look forward to seeing what points of contention @supremegeneration finds with my arguments, and discussing those with him. For now though, I do think Thor holds an advantage, even in a one-on-one match-up with Iceman.
Versus Heracles:
I don't know too much (or anything, really) about Heracles, so I'll keep this section short and try to avoid speculation as best I can. From a bit of cursory research, it appears Heracles' lung strength is her claim to fame, along with the standard enhanced physicals. So, although I'm really not sure how potent her abilities are, I'd like to raise the possibility that Thor can just control and redirect her wind/air-based attacks, since a huge gust of wind is basically a storm, and Thor has plenty of impressive feats in terms of creating and controlling storms of his own. In terms of actually defeating her, or tanking any of her other attacks, I'll leave it at just the feats I've already posted, since my lack of knowledge on Heracles severely limits my ability to make preliminary counters for her.
To Battle: Summary & Conclusion
Thor can output planetary levels of strength, and contend with (hurt/take hits from) beings at similar levels of strength and durability.
Thor's storms can output planetary levels of power, and will be extremely difficult to dodge due to their vast range and the sheer speed of Thor's magical lightning.
Thor has what it takes to fight Death Seed Iceman, especially considering he has prior knowledge on Iceman. A possible strategy could be large scale AOEs and storms to prevent Iceman's fodder clones from ever becoming an issue, and just good old fashioned Mjolnir strikes to shatter Iceman's main body and confiscate the Death Seed from him.
Thor can contend with Heracles, and possibly nullify or even redirect her wind-based attacks with his own power over storms.
With the combined power of Stardust and Firelord on Thor's team, your team will be, to say the least, hard-pressed to take the victory in this match-up...
Pyreus Kril was a member of the Nova Corps when Galactus chose his partner Gabriel to become the herald of Galactus, Air Walker. After serving Galactus, Airwalker seemingly died in combat with Thor and to avenge him, Pyreus became the new herald of Galactus, Firelord. After realizing Thor did not kill Airwalker, Firelord became an ally of the Asgardian and other Earth Heroes.
Powers and Abilities
Superhuman Physicals
Energy Blasts
Flight
Heat Manipulation
Heat Absorption
Energy Absorption
Telepathy
Cosmic Senses
Strength
Firelord is not Thor, Superman, Hulk or anything like that. He's not the type to engage in H2H combat and just fight(if he does, he has some hax to help, but I'll get into that later). However, that doesn't mean he doesn't have some decnt strength feats. Starting off, in his fight against Silver Surfer in Infinity Crusade #3 we see him briefly stunning Surfer with two hits and some energy blasts.
Now he didn't do any real permanent damage to Surfer, he was fine the next time we see him, but it's worth noting that Surfer was out for a bit. For another feat, later on in their fight during Silver Surfer vol 3 #83, Firelord smacks Surfer and he flies away into an terrestrial object. Later we see Surfer flying away from the object and it seems to be a moon/planet.
Either this is one of the planets/moons in the background or it's a different object not on panel. Either way it's pretty evident Firelord hit Surfer far away and hard as evidenced by Surfer struggling to speak.
Now, Firelord won't dominate anyone in H2H(specifically Heracles), however that doesn't mean he can't hold his own and stagger others with hits
Energy
More relevant to the fight itself/putting people down is Firelord's energy blasts which operate on a much higher level then his striking. Firstly for a very clear cut feat, in Amazing Spider-man #269, Firelord one-shots an asteroid stated to be the size of a small planet
Now, a small planet could mean many things, Earth for example is technically a small planet, but I think something like Mercury would is more what the writer would have in time. Now according to my google fu, Mercury is about 4.5 times more massive then the moon (I know it's not a super reliable sight, but googling their masses and basic division will tell you the same thing) and Firelord destroyed this thing in one hit. Additionally, Firelord shows a decent speed feat of easily reacting to and weaving through a meteor shower
For another solid feat in Avengers #260, Firelord hits with the fiery power of a small star
Now while it is a bit vague, hitting with the power output of a small star seems pretty in line with one-shotting the Asteroid.
Overall, in terms of raw power I think that Firelord has everything it takes to hammer down Heracles and Iceman as a canon for the team and while he can't one-shot them or anything, his hits are gonna hurt quite a bit, especially when coupled with the rest of the team.
Durability
Firelord isn't the best of tanks, he won't sit on the battle and no-sell hits all day, but he's pretty damn durable, especially toward energy attacks. Starting off in Avengers #260, that same "energy of a small star" attack got redirected on him and sent him flying into a nearby moon, which he tanked.
Considering how powerful this blast was, this is a great feat for Fire-Lord, especially since it doubles as energy durability from the blast and blunt-force from being slammed into the moon with that force.
Another solid durability feat for Fire-Lord comes from New Warriors #42 where he tanked being blasted across a solar system
Firelord can tank quite a few powerful hits, especially energy based before he gets put down. Anyway, while Firelord can tank hits, he doesn't necessarily need to. The team has other tanks such as Thor to soak hits while Firelord fires off hits as well.
Speed
Fire-lord admittedly isn't the fastest, however he's not slow, he does have a few speed feats that will allow him to contend.
Starting off with Travel Speed, even in his first appearance, Thor #225, Firelord has been shown to be easily capable of flying at FTL speeds, even for days at a time which doubles as a great feat of endurance
Of course, if Firelord was just relegated to FTL travel speed, he'd be in trouble, but fortunately Fire-Lord has speed in other areas as well. Take for instance Silver Surfer vol 3 #83 Where Fire-Lord overtakes Surfer while he's flying at FTL speeds and catches him off guard by dropping on top of him.
Dropping on top of Surfer at such high speeds should easily require FTL reactions, which should allow him to at the very least react to blitzes and such during the fight.
Heat Manipulation
Up until now, everything Fire-Lord has is just supplement. It's useful and will help during the battle, but this, this is where we get to his absolutely insane stuff. Possibly insane enough to solo Iceman. Fire-Lord can create heat so hot that even Surfer who can casually fly through stars(and is referenced as much in the same scan) has to flee as seen in Silver Surfer vol 3 #19
He even says "the heat of the stars is nothing to me", but he has to flee Firelord's heat within seconds of being there. You're going to have to show some insane heat resistance showings of Iceman's ice/Heracles himself to say they can sustain fighting near Firelord without being forced to flee like Surfer or even killed if they don't have Surfer's resistance.
Summary
Firelord is essentially the canon of our team. He's not gonna sit there and soak damage, but rather stay more toward the back, firing off powerful AF hits and letting his heat soak through the battlefield and protect his teammates(No Friendly Fire). The heat will force Heracles and Iceman to stay back and it can melt Iceman's constructs as well, making him less important in the battle.
Lamba-Zero is a non-corporeal being who left her race in order and became a herald of Galactus after the Annihilation event Stardust's race went nearly extinct. In order to prove her loyalty to Galactus, she sacrificed the last remaining members of her species as food for the devourer becoming the sole survivor and the most loyal herald Galactus would come to possess.
Abilities
Superhuman physicals
Cosmic Awareness
Warp Time-Space
Intangibility
Reconstitution
Forcefield generation
Invulnerability
Energy manipulation and projection
Flight
Physically
Stardust's most impressive stat by far, being an incorporeal being, Stardust's by her own admission cannot be physically destroyed her body will always reconstitute itself and on top of that her physicals are very impressive
Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #1
Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #4
One-Two: Stardust tanks an attack from freaking Galactus, the attack leaves Beta Ray Bill unconscious yet Stardust is basically unharmed, for an example of Bill's durability look to the next set of scans Three-Four: Stardust with her strength and momentum bullrushes Asteroth and Beta Ray Bill so hard the planet explodes from the impact. Five: Beta Ray Bill withstands the explosion dazed but not Ko'ed, Stardust on the other hand almost no sells it, again showing the durability difference between her and Bill. So Stardust can physically create and tank planet explosions with her strength and her base durability is marginally above a character(Beta Ray Bill) whose durability allows him to withstand planetary attacks as well. This should set a baseline for Stardust's physicals
Scan 1: Stardust releases enough energy out of her spear to make the surrounding planets look small(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3)
Scan 2: Releasing an AOE powerful enough to daze Beta Ray Bill(Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter #1)
Scan 3: Her energy aura has Beta Ray Bill on her knees(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3)
As examples above show, her energy projection is capable of putting planetary characters like Beta Ray Bill on their knees and at least grow to the size of planets in beam battles. This should be more than powerful enough to put down Heracles.
Summary
This was a very brief demonstration of the power Stardust brings to the battle, admittedly she won't be doing much against Iceman I do think along with Thor she could defeat Heracles without many issues. Her physicals and DC are well above planet level which should (at least to my knowledge) be able to overwhelm Heracles.
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