Ichigo vs Raditz

Don't remember ''bitching'' about feats since I already know all of Raditz feats, being a Moon buster wouldn't grant him a victory unless he hit him with one Ki blast which would easily kill Ichigo.

Kinda does

I don't really care if the Island was destroyed or don't, in the end of the day, even if you ignore the fact that Buildings resisted the explosion, she don't destroyed the Island though, only engulfed her and Goku received most of the damage.

Building and mountains got destroyed as well, who cares if 1 or 2 buildings are left, doesn't change the fact he blew away everyone on a island which was considered massive by the guides.

Don't remember this happening, only Piccolo being bothered by the light created by the explosion

Nonsense, it was the shock wave, even look at the anime -.-

Okay, but I'm not sure what this have to do with Raditz, since I already stated that Frieza would solo the Bleachverse, and like I claimed before was a feat for Frieza since while empty of Ki saiyans can't even endure lasers and Krillin was hurt more than once by bullets, so don't looks like the feat can be scaled, Kid Goku also tanked explosions, but guys at the same level at him IIRC are almost killed by a grenade like Tao who tanked a Kamehameha, and IIRC Tao was stated to be stonger than Roshi.

My low balling rubbish, apparently we ignore every big feat in the series and concentrate on low ball feats -.- like I said, I can do this to any series and downplay the living shit out of it. Lasers don't do nothing, just a silly excuse and inconsistent moment in the series.

Their same Ki can also make it rain and cause big storms while Powering up like Vegeta powering up against Goku, looks like Ki is just a energy that is affecting Nature itself, I would like to see some proves saying that they amp strength and that they can produce the same striking and blunt force as their power up though, like I claimed before the same Nappa that did this was bleeding cuz he was throw in a hill at high-speeds and Vegeta while in his Oozaru form was cut by Yajirobe, and Krillin with a PL above 10.000 was bleeding cuz of a rock :P. I also don't remember to deny that ki have blunt force, since I already know that it have based on feats, , but with so much ''low-ends'' and evidences in the manga by feats and statements, I just want you to prove that they power up shaking the planet means that they physicals are amp at this level as well as well that their Ki blasts have that same amount of blunt force and striking, with actual feats and statements from the manga.

What ? Ki can obviously do things other then having force, even Roshi can create lightning based attacks with it, affecting nature is just a side effect of what it can do. Please don't downplay, if you are going to use low end feats then I am seriously not going to bother, because if you think Rocks > power level of 10 000 yet ignore the fact they are handling attacks are on a far larger scale this then this debate is done. I told you, anyone can low ball a series with low ball feats.

Also a stronger Vegeta was almost died when was throw at the ground at MHS+ Speeds, this don't get even close to something powerful enough to shake a planet, and based on Krillin and Gohan's reactions, is pretty obviously that they were convinced that this would mess up Vegeta pretty bad.

http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-ball/capitulo-276/dragonball8.jpg

http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-ball/capitulo-276/dragonball9.jpg

Never came close to dying, and Recomme blast which shut half way in his mouth warped the entire planet of namek, and it only broke a few teeth. Plus Vegeta punched Recoome through an mountain before, again enough with the low balling thanks

Not really, the rock was simply thrown at high-speed against him, which caused him to bleed. Bora also tanked bullets and was pierced by a spear that Mercenary Tao throw at him, Tao can throw pillars at Mach 21+ speed while using a considerable amount of strength, so considering that he throw the spear at him casually that thing should be moving at least at Mach 10-20.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/37144/5662046-3671003030-ndrag.jpg

https://i5.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/86/dragon-ball-1696616.jpg

https://i2.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/86/dragon-ball-1696620.jpg

https://i8.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/86/dragon-ball-1696621.jpg

@joviolma said:

@u_wot_m8 said:

Kinda does

If he hit a Ki blast, obviously Ichigo would die, so we don't have a disagreement.

Building and mountains got destroyed as well, who cares if 1 or 2 buildings are left, doesn't change the fact he blew away everyone on a island which was considered massive by the guides.

I would like the see the Mountains getting destroyed, I can only remember buildings get destroyed, and also although the Databook said that the Island is pretty big(Small Continent size) Looks like just some normal island to me

But let's not disagree with Daizenshuu statements.

Nonsense, it was the shock wave, even look at the anime -.-

Keyword: Anime, the main source the Manga only showed light bothering him, and not sure what you are trying to prove, since by scale Raditz should be Small Planet Level if we accept Vegeta's statement, but let's accept the shock-wave for future reasons :)

My low balling rubbish, apparently we ignore every big feat in the series and concentrate on low ball feats -.- like I said, I can do this to any series and downplay the living shit out of it. Lasers don't do nothing, just a silly excuse and inconsistent moment in the series.

Mate, you will need try to prove with feats and statements from the series that this feat scale to Raditz as well. How the laser thing is inconsistent to being with ? This is exactly what Whis was trying to say in the movie that Goku can be hurt those kinds of things if empty of Ki there is no contradiction, Krillin as well was hurt by bullets while empty of Ki.

Lasers don't do nothing= Assumption

Laser almost killed a Goku off-guard and empty of Ki= Actual feat and Whis was pointed that being too relaxed can be

problematic.

I fail the see the excuse and inconsistent here :P

What ? Ki can obviously do things other then having force, even Roshi can create lightning based attacks with it, affecting nature is just a side effect of what it can do.

CooI, I don't remember deny what Roshi can do with his Ki, but I still wanting for a feat or statement proving that they can amp their strength to the point that their striking and physical durability also can produce blunt force that shake a planet.

Please don't downplay.

No downplay, actually one of the few reasons is hard to debate about DB is the inconsistent feats, I would have no problem that they can shake the planet with blunt force and striking but since multiple feats stated otherwise.... I can't do too much.

if you are going to use low end feats then I am seriously not going to bother, because if you think Rocks > power level of 10 000 yet ignore the fact they are handling attacks are on a far larger scale this then this debate is done. I told you, anyone can low ball a series with low ball feats.

Like I claimed before, the speed of the rock that hit him also contributed to the damage, was Frieza who destroyed the Island, that thing at bare minimum should be moving at Mach 1000-2000 speed when hit Krillin's skin, and I'm being generous, the point is if we have multiple feats also statements proving that their physical strength have no striking comparable to their power-up, we can't do nothing, and is pretty easy to identified low-ends though, all the times that people get hurt by ''rocks'' and hills, they are kick or hit by people with superhuman strength which cuz them to move at high-speeds when they hit the object, so speed is also necessary to the damage.

Never came close to dying.

He was almost dead and barely could move.

http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-ball/capitulo-276/dragonball10.jpg

and Recomme blast which shut half way in his mouth warped the entire planet of namek, and it only broke a few teeth.

Amazing :) but in the end, his mouth never tanked the explosion that warped Namek only a considerable amount of it, and should be noted that the beam not even exploded in his mouth though.

http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-ball/capitulo-277/dragonball2.jpg

http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-ball/capitulo-277/dragonball4.jpg

Plus Vegeta punched Recoome through an mountain before, again enough with the low balling thanks

Didn't deny this, and unlike Nappa, he wasn't hurt by this, only by Vegeta's Blast.

http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-ball/capitulo-275/dragonball6.jpg

http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-ball/capitulo-275/dragonball7.jpg

http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-ball/capitulo-275/dragonball8.jpg

It was never thrown to begin with, done with an explosion, plus rocks shouldn't even hurt Krillin to begin with, just another inconsistent moment.

The explosion produced by Frieza throw the Rocks on the Island at high speeds, and Krillin was just hit by one of them,

Raditz curbs

Raditz one shots. both piccolo and Goku were country level and MHS at the end of dragon ball. 5 years had past both goku and piccolo were a lot stronger at the BOZ and raditz fought both at the same time

@phantasmial: I siad fan fact, that is not manet to be taken seriously, hence why i said we will ignore it and that he is relativistic not FTL, i never said that they are FTL in Sayian Saga, nor do i think that, i think Vegeta and Kaio Ken Goku who are strongest in this saga are only relativstic+, you can search my past threads if you want as well i always said that, they only reach FTL on Namek

But given that you are a clear DB lowballer who said this, you are the last person who should try to lecture anyone on anything, you lost all credibility when you said this

@phantasmial:

it's a fact that DB physicals =/= energy stats. reminding people that they are not the same is lowball to you? lmao.

Fact that you used a laser which is energy attack nearly killing Goku to justify their stats being bad is extreme lowballing, but no in DB physical stats are ridiculous as we saw in super, so yeah saying their stats are horrible is nonsense

i'm the also the only guy who proved that Buu can be multi galaxy level in the sub forum of db. do your research before claiming stuff like that.

I am prety sure you never said anything like that in this account, maybe on some other forum as you say but who the hell am is supposed to know who the hell you are or what you did? I only go by what i see on this account and that is lowballing

and they are not relativistic. goku and piccolo PLs during saiyan saga pre Afterlife boost are the same as during Piccolo tenkaichi tourmanet arc

Not Goku and Piccolo but Raditz, i was talking about him

@phantasmial:

i'm phantasial. this is my alt. phantasial = phantasmial. duh and oh

I never heard of or saw your main account phantasial which i see now has 300 posts and 1 follower lol, so i am not going to instantly know who you are by seeing the similar name, you are not that famous, nor do i care who you are really

, you meant raddits? this is most likely not as even Buu saga characters take a lot of minutes to cross the earth. granted we don't know how much but minutes at least nontheless.

I am talking about combat speed not travel speed duh, their travel speed is much wekaer( like thousneds of times), same is naruto and many other fictions really, but that is wrong, i am prety sure that Namek Goku crossed entire planet in seconds when he arrived on the battlefield , that during Buu saga is just them taking their time not using full speed, but agian that is travel speed, that is irelvnat, i was talking about combat speed, just to clarify no i dont think Raditz has relativistic travel speed, only combat and reaction speed, but fortunately for him they are not in the race so his travel speed does not matter here

@phantasmial:

if you don't care to know someone before you call them a lowballer just because of their post count, then i'm lost for words for you.

Yeah i really dont, when i see somone say what you did he is lowballer regardless of who he is

and fun fact my lad. that follower is me. as i don't spend time arguing in the VS forum. but rather make productive threads that are well researched to remove misconceptions and bring up new info to the fandom. like broly being able to destroy multiple galaxies being confirmed by the director or buu being stronger than beerus at some point and etc but i see you don't care about any of that

You are right, i really dont, you can do good thing 99% of the time but if you say what you did you are still lowballer, i dislike when people lowball any verse not just DB

and here is a nice little info. that statement is not from the original japanese book, but rather, from the english localization. see, i just helped you know some actual stuff

That's irelvant, if its official, approved it still counts, besides my point still remains their combat speed is much much faster

@phantasmial:

talk about shooting before asking. again, context. that statement is for people who equate DB physical stats to their energy stats and come up with stuff like ''if cell can destroy a solar system (through destroying the sun) then he must be able to scale up to characters who physically fight at solar system'' kind of people.

No, you were talking about laser nearly killing Gou as proof that his durabiltiy is bad, I am prety sure nobady evne mentioned Call on that thread, but yes super has shown that their energy and physical stats are similar and we saw their blats have ridiculous force as well not just "energy

and i am prety sure that Cell does not need to destroy the sun, he is a solar system, not star buster, he siad "i have enough chi to blow away entire solar system"

the problem is, no character during saiyan saga show anything beyond hypersonic.

Do you know what hypersonic menas that is mach 5 to mach 20 and something, Tao Pai was far above that, if you really think that they are this fast, you just proved my point even further about not being worth debating with, i am done with you

@phantasmial:

yes, to remind people that just because goku can blow stuff up, doesn't mean his physical stats is as good

You first used laser argument to prove that, and as i siad his stats are not horrible, they are great( universal in super)

i highly doubt cell can blow up the solar system as one.

He can

considering he shit himself from the idea hat 16 may explode on him. the most logical conclusion is that he was going to blow up the sun, and by exteion, the solar system but that's a talk for a different itme and place.

That is headcanon, he siad solar system he can blow solar system, sun exploding cannot do that, it can destroy life not but destroy the solar system itself, as for 16 didn't he say "it would not be enaugh to destroy me anyway" and not only that but his self destruct could just be that strong, above solar system in potency, that was last resort, attack far strogner than all the normal attacks( and he is star level normally) that he uses, it could just be that strong, he has infinite energy does he not? That is not an anti feat, just another proof of your lowballing, So no Cell is the solar system, not star level

well, it seems that not agreeing that radditz is relativistic is apparently a lowball as well. yeah, i wasted my time taking this seriously as well

Yeah saying that he is hypersonic is indeed being reasonable right? As i siad somone who claims that is not worth having a debate with, so maybe the best thing is to agree to disagree

@phantasmial:

it would be quite mindblowing if animefreak and phantasial turned out to be related considering they were active at the same time multiple times at different places and debated against each other multiple times. The fact that you haven't clicked my profile to realise a simple fact that my account phantasial is ''lost'' makes me giggles in the inside.

You said that one follower on your original account was you and on this, you have no followers and on that one that is anime freak

universal tier characters don't get hurt from laser beams

That is not even worth addressing, i will only leave this to show what kind of person you are

solar system level 16 ladies and gentlemen.

Normally no? But his self destruct ( which is far above all his normal attacks) i dont see why not and Cell still said that would not destroy him, but given you made yourself look like complete idiot multiple times here you are last person who should try to appeal on common belief and logic

t's like talking to a child.

Funny thing is i think same thing here, but i would lie if i said it was entertaining, this level of stupidity is quite boring i am afraid