Ichigo vs Raditz

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#1 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5288 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Both are at their strongest.
  • Raditz can see Ichigo.
  • Raditz won't be crushed by reiatsu.
  • Fight starts 500m out where Goku and Piccolo fought Raditz.

Who wins? How many Raditz would Ichigo be equal to? If he can't beat him, who is the strongest he could defeat?

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#3 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16919 posts) - - Show Bio

... Bump. I wanna see chaos.

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#4 Posted by Claymore_Fools (707 posts) - - Show Bio

This will be a fun read.

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#5 Posted by cromulor (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz could have the destructive capability advantage but I think Ichigo would have the speed advantage. Raditz’s stamina and durability are also poor and if Ichigo can figure out that his tail is a weakness it’s over. I doubt Ichigo will be as merciful as Goku to let Raditz’s tail go twice. I give it to Ichigo 7/10. Could he beat more than one Raditz? Ehh... I wouldn’t say he could take more than 5 at the same time because one of them would figure out he should just nuke the whole area.

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#6 Edited by MainJP (7089 posts) - - Show Bio

Ichigo.

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#7 Edited by deactivated-5b17f1b84ea5f (1752 posts) - - Show Bio

What is Raditz best speed feat? Also his best reaction speed feat?

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#8 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (5288 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutobleachfan: Probably him dodging Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon, which may or may not be light speed. Whether it is or not I'm not sure, but people tend to debate it a lot(based on the whole Piccolo destroying the moon thing).

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#9 Edited by DemonGod_PABLO (1781 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutobleachfan said:

What is Raditz best speed feat? Also his best reaction speed feat?

Raditz dodging special beam canon way after piccolo shot it. It's a pure reaction feat and he outpaced goku's kamehameha

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Also he blitzed goku and piccolo multiple times

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#10 Posted by DemonGod_PABLO (1781 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz one shots. both piccolo and Goku were country level and MHS at the end of dragon ball. 5 years had past both goku and piccolo were a lot stronger at the BOZ and raditz fought both at the same time

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#11 Posted by deactivated-5b17f1b84ea5f (1752 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah: If that was light speed, then Ichigo won't even be able to scratch Raditz.

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#12 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5288 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutobleachfan: That's just it, it's not clear whether it is or not. Piccolo states it in the dub but that was a translation error and the best proof for it being LS is scaling based on Piccolo's moon busting feat. So it comes down to whether you believe that calc or not, if not they're likely around the higher ends of MHS+ to sub-relativistic.

And before any DBZ debaters jump down my throat, I know DBZ goes FTL not long after that and then MFTL, I know. I just don't think they did it in the Saiyan Saga, and if they were then it was around the time Goku fought Vegeta. Just my opinion.

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5b17f1b84ea5f (1752 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah: Ichigo is MHS+, so he still probably won't be able to beat Raditz.

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#14 Edited by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutobleachfan said:

: Ichigo is MHS+, so he still probably won't be able to beat Raditz.

He is not Light Speed, or even close to that and try to scale him with Piccolo's feat is illogical since

  • No one ever dodged that specific Ki blast from Piccolo
  • There is absolutely no time frame confirming how much time it takes to Piccolo's Blast Reach Moon and using anime time frames only prove that considering that no Ki blast was that fast comparable to Piccolo beam.
  • Gohan and Krillin already moved themselves multiples times faster than their own Ki Blasts as well the Ki blasts from other Users like Reccome and yet still taking 1 hour even in full speed to travel to point A to point B in Namek
  • The speed of the Ki blasts showed inconsistencies through the entire series I don't see why this wouldn't be one
  • The other only Moon feat was Roshi's Kamehameha which no one ever dodged in Roshi's Buff Form Full Power, in RoF he proved to be strong enough to defeat multiple Frieza's soldiers that were giving trouble to Krillin
  • No Character was stated to surpass the Two Realms of Speed: Sound and Light until Dyspo, and if Toriyama really wanted to proved that they are Light speed he would have done this before
  • Even characters like 17 and 18 need sometime to reach Kame's house using their Travel speed
  • Z-Fighters multiple times failed to react against Solar Flare(i.e Light), even when they had Knowledge of the technique.

OT: Raditz would one shot Ichigo if he manage to fire a Ki Blast, but if this don't happen, Ichigo blitz and cut his Head :)

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#15 Posted by tomvvhite (1 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor: You think he'd have the speed advantage? Raditz moved faster then light, at least picollo stated it in the anime not sure about the manga tho.

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#16 Posted by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor: You think he'd have the speed advantage? Raditz moved faster then light, at least picollo stated it in the anime not sure about the manga tho.

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#17 Edited by FlashingSabre (3867 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz has better feats, and better high end scaling. Ichigo wins if we scale reasonably.

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#18 Posted by deactivated-5d26a3a3d293d (3054 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed of early DBZ characters is often highly debated and depends on how people come out on the outlier speed of ki blasts reaching the moon. Ichigo’s speed is also subject to a lot of debate. Even the low end of where I place Ichigo should be sufficient to allow him prevail over Raditz.

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#19 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18737 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz vapes.

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#20 Edited by deactivated-5b17f1b84ea5f (1752 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: Not sure why you tagged me, I said if it was LS.

Either way Ichigo still won't land a hit on Raditz.

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#21 Posted by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: Not sure why you tagged me, I said if it was LS.

Either way Ichigo still won't land a hit on Raditz.

If you are SAIYAN.

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#22 Posted by DemonGod_PABLO (1781 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz doesn’t need to be light speed to beat Ichigo. He was fighting two moon level characters at once. Raditz one shots

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#23 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18890 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor said:

Raditz could have the destructive capability advantage but I think Ichigo would have the speed advantage. Raditz’s stamina and durability are also poor and if Ichigo can figure out that his tail is a weakness it’s over. I doubt Ichigo will be as merciful as Goku to let Raditz’s tail go twice. I give it to Ichigo 7/10. Could he beat more than one Raditz? Ehh... I wouldn’t say he could take more than 5 at the same time because one of them would figure out he should just nuke the whole area.

Ya, Ichigo is faster and stronger but Raditz has more power. I agree that Ichigo has a good chance here.

@cromulor: You think he'd have the speed advantage? Raditz moved faster then light, at least picollo stated it in the anime not sure about the manga tho.

That was only an anime dub line. It wasn't actually in the original anime or manga.

@joviolma: Not sure why you tagged me, I said if it was LS.

Either way Ichigo still won't land a hit on Raditz.

I disagree. It took saiyan saga Goku a day to travel 1 million km and he was way faster than Raditz at that point. It took him months to travel that distance the first time and he was fast enough to tag Raditz then. Ichigo traveled from the soul palace to soul society in half a day, which is an extremely far distance and I'm pretty sure that would at least be a better feat than Goku taking months to go 1 million km.

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#24 Posted by cromulor (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomvvhite: With how long it took Goku to cross Snake Way, even after he’d completed his training and became much stronger than Raditz, it’s hard to believe any of them were light speed or relativistic by that point. According to statements from King Kai, Goku crosses Snake Way (1 million kilometers) in 177 days. That’s a speed of 235 kilometers per hour. That’s not even Mach 1, but do keep in mind the calculation can’t count for any time Goku had to stop moving or go to sleep (the manga and anime both address that he did those things while on his first run). Raditz himself does have at least Mach 1-3 reaction feats though considering he caught a bullet without even moving until after it was fired.

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#25 Edited by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@demongod_pablo said:

Raditz doesn’t need to be light speed to beat Ichigo. He was fighting two moon level characters at once. Raditz one shots

Advantaged in Raw DC and Durability against Energy based attacks, strong humans like Yajirobe cut Vegeta multiple times, and Krillin and Gohan were threatened by sharped trees in the fight against Guldo.

In the end of the day, Raditz cutting/piercing resistance are terrible, although I 100 % agree with your last sentence, Raditz is Moon level + if any Bleach character try to tank his Ki blasts would easily be killed.

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#26 Edited by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor said:

@tomvvhite: With how long it took Goku to cross Snake Way, even after he’d completed his training and became much stronger than Raditz, it’s hard to believe any of them were light speed or relativistic by that point. According to statements from King Kai, Goku crosses Snake Way (1 million kilometers) in 177 days. That’s a speed of 235 kilometers per hour. That’s not even Mach 1, but do keep in mind the calculation can’t count for any time Goku had to stop moving or go to sleep (the manga and anime both address that he did those things while on his first run). Raditz himself does have at least Mach 1-3 reaction feats though considering he caught a bullet without even moving until after it was fired.

I Personally believe that Raditz's travel speed should be at least above Mach 2-5, his Combat speed should be at least above Mach 30 considering the scaling, Like Tao's statement and the ones like Roshi reacting to bullets.

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#27 Posted by jadenyuki02 (291 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah: it's lightspeed. even roshi's beam in the original db reached and destroyed the moon in seconds.

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#28 Posted by DemonGod_PABLO (1781 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: you’re making false claims raditz got hit by piccolo’s strongest attack which raises his power level multiple times, he doesn’t have low piercing durability. That isn’t a thing in DB. They don’t have split durability.

Do not leave out context. Vegeta got snuck by Yajirobe and he cut his tail which is a saiyans weak point. Guldo was stronger than both krillen and gohan at the time even then that doesn’t prove they have low piercing durability. If you’re ki is higher you can defend against an enemy’s attack

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#29 Posted by DemonGod_PABLO (1781 posts) - - Show Bio

Also since when did we equate travel speed and combat speed. DB characters have always been faster in combat this is common knowledge stop lowballing

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5d26a3a3d293d (3054 posts) - - Show Bio

@demongod_pablo:

Vegeta got snuck by Yajirobe and he cut his tail which is a saiyans weak point.

Pretty sure he got cut across the back after that as well, but only got partially saved by his armor.

Guldo was stronger than both krillen and gohan at the time

Pretty sure he wasn't. Outside of time freezing, he was getting manhandled something fierce.

even then that doesn’t prove they have low piercing durability

That's kinda exactly what that proves...

Also since when did we equate travel speed and combat speed. DB characters have always been faster in combat this is common knowledge stop lowballing

They're lacking quantifiable feats in either category really because the author who made it didn't really care for consistency. *shrugs* Just saying they're faster in combat (if true) says nothing about how fast they are.

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#31 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5288 posts) - - Show Bio

@jadenyuki02: How many seconds did it take exactly? Also, what can we use to gauge that it actually took so little time to get there? I'd like to see some proof. Not only that, but how was the moon there to be destroyed by Piccolo if Roshi destroyed it in the first place? I'm talking about the manga btw.

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#32 Edited by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@demongod_pablo said:

@joviolma: you’re making false claims raditz got hit by piccolo’s strongest attack which raises his power level multiple times, he doesn’t have low piercing durability. That isn’t a thing in DB. They don’t have split durability.

LoL, what this even mean ? he was pierced by his Makankosappo and only managed to endure the first time because he stepped aside like Piccolo claimed.

Do not leave out context. Vegeta got snuck by Yajirobe and he cut his tail which is a saiyans weak point.

Saiyans weak point, not Saiyans's weaker spot against attacks , should be noted, neither Vegeta or Nappa had that weakness anymore as they stated:

https://i6.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/220/dragon-ball-1949891.jpg

https://i2.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/220/dragon-ball-1949895.jpg

https://i4.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/220/dragon-ball-1949901.jpg

And should be noted, Raditz tanked a Attack from Piccolo and was fine as well his tail, so please, where is was mentioned that the Saiyan's tail is less durable than the Saiyan's body ?

https://i2.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/195/dragon-ball-1945321.jpg

https://i6.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/195/dragon-ball-1945323.jpg

https://i3.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/235/dragon-ball-1604401.jpg

https://i9.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/235/dragon-ball-1604403.jpg

Vegeta's Ki was so big that Krillin couldn't even approach, funny how he never said that against Nappa or Raditz.

Guldo was stronger than both krillen and gohan at the time even then that doesn’t prove they have low piercing durability.

What proof do you have to say this to being with ? When Guldo's power level was even stated, and if he is really stronger than Krillin and Gohan why he used his time based technique multiple times and was running away from them ? And since they were both threatened by the trees is pretty obviously that they have a low piercing durability against Piercing/Cutting techniques moving at high speeds.

If you’re ki is higher you can defend against an enemy’s attack

When I deny this ? LOL, my point is that they have a enormous resistance against Energy based attacks, but their piercing resistance is terrible, should be noted, Vegeta was severely injured after his fight and yet he said that he have energy more than enough to deal with Krillin, Yajirobe or Gohan, he easily stomped Krillin, and later Yajirobe who wasn't even hurt to being with, and yet was cut and was afraid to being cut again, should be noted that he noticed Yajirobe.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111251022/5716074-pdragon_ball_-_v016c238_-_page_014.jpg

https://i1.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/239/dragon-ball-1604474.jpg

https://i7.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/239/dragon-ball-1604476.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111251022/5713501-bdragon_ball_-_v016c239_-_page_011.jpg

https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111251022/5716081-bdragon_ball_-_v016c239_-_page_012.jpg

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111251022/5716080-bdragon_ball_-_v016c239_-_page_013.jpg

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#33 Posted by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@jadenyuki02: How many seconds did it take exactly? Also, what can we use to gauge that it actually took so little time to get there? I'd like to see some proof. Not only that, but how was the moon there to be destroyed by Piccolo if Roshi destroyed it in the first place?

Kami recreated the Moon in the past.

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#34 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (5288 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Gaoron (9547 posts) - - Show Bio

@demongod_pablo:

Vegeta got snuck by Yajirobe and he cut his tail which is a saiyans weak point.

Pretty sure he got cut across the back after that as well, but only got partially saved by his armor.

Guldo was stronger than both krillen and gohan at the time

Pretty sure he wasn't. Outside of time freezing, he was getting manhandled something fierce.

even then that doesn’t prove they have low piercing durability

That's kinda exactly what that proves...

Also since when did we equate travel speed and combat speed. DB characters have always been faster in combat this is common knowledge stop lowballing

They're lacking quantifiable feats in either category really because the author who made it didn't really care for consistency. *shrugs* Just saying they're faster in combat (if true) says nothing about how fast they are.

Quite ironic in a Bleach thread lmao Ichigo has no speed feats with direct proof how fast he is, there are only questionable travel speed fan calcs that are based on statements about how many days it takes to travel it. Goku was hypersonic since Roshi training blocking barrages of bullets, doging explosions and keeping up with characters that blitz characters who can have whole fight sequence in FTE speeds then he was outspeeding mach 20 Tao, blizting characters with his last hypersonic speed, leaping buldings at point blank shots and catching objects that travel around a world in moments. After that he was stated to be trained to be faster than lightning by the guy who blitzed him only to be invisibe in real time (which would require LS in real life btw) to characters that blitzed him abd trained to FTLighting. And Raditz blitzed this Goku. Ichigo has nothing on that.

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#36 Posted by jadenyuki02 (291 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah: Roshi's beam reached it almost instantly. It's really not that hard to go on youtube and see that particular clip yourself. The moon's gone.

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#37 Posted by Gaoron (9547 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: You missed entire chapter between Vegeta striking Kurilin and Yajirobe slicing Vegeta. Vegeta was so weak he couldn't finish off half alive Goku and says that the damage he sustained are worse than he thought.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Basically what Yajirobe accomplish is slicing Vegeta who was weakened to a point he couldn't finish off half alive Goku and Kurilin. Lol at Yajirobe cutting healthy Vegeta

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#38 Posted by LeoTheGreatest (5263 posts) - - Show Bio

Ichigo has a shot.

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#39 Edited by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron said:

@joviolma: You missed entire chapter between Vegeta striking Kurilin and Yajirobe slicing Vegeta. Vegeta was so weak he couldn't finish off half alive Goku and says that the damage he sustained are worse than he thought.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Basically what Yajirobe accomplish is slicing Vegeta who was weakened to a point he couldn't finish off half alive Goku and Kurilin. Lol at Yajirobe cutting healthy Vegeta

When I deny this ? I even stated that Vegeta was hurt, my point is that he managed to stomp Krillin pretty easily with one attack, and I think you miss the part where he managed to slice through Oozaru Vegeta

https://i3.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/235/dragon-ball-1604401.jpg

https://i9.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/235/dragon-ball-1604403.jpg

You can argue at him didn't notice Yajirobe, although I really doubt that this would make him weak against cutting attacks.

Or when both Krillin and Gohan were threatened by Sharped trees

https://i10.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/274/dragon-ball-69137.jpg

https://i2.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/274/dragon-ball-69138.jpg

You can also complain about Gohan saying that his senses are paralyzed, although again, I doubt that this would make them weak against piercing

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#40 Posted by Jatom22 (1856 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz off the top of my head

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#41 Edited by Kratosx64x (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: in DB anything which happens off guard (in this scenario by super human being) can be a serious issue for them, Vegeta getting cut, Goku getting the ray gun through his chest, krillin getting hurt by a bullet, Goku getting scratched by a bullet. But other than that you can never see low feats on cutting/piercing attacks other than the Kienzan which is one of the most OP attacks in DB, i still wonder why nobody uses the combo solar flar and Kienzan. Trunks cutting Frieza is not a low end feat mor of a stronger character cutting through a weaker character, this however is not the case here imo.

Gohan and Krillin was both paralyzed ergo not able to get their guards up. In this fight this is not what is gonna happen. Radditz won't let his guard down or will not be unable to keep his guard up against Ichigo.

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#42 Posted by deactivated-5d26a3a3d293d (3054 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron:

Quite ironic in a Bleach thread lmao Ichigo has no speed feats with direct proof how fast he is

Kek, truer words have never been spoken. But even I'd place Ichigo around lightning speed, while lately I've seen more people trying to scale him to what Ichibei did. But there's been a long history of lowballing Bleach in the speed department on the Vine. He does have a feat of casually reacting to Candice's channeled cloud to ground lightning quite casually. And earlier in that scene, he moved faster than any of the Quincy girls could see. Bleach is pretty inconsistent too, though, since he also got tagged by Candice and Meninas later.

characters that blitz characters who can have whole fight sequence in FTE speeds

That's all a part of the magical inconsistency that is Dragon Ball.

mach 20 Tao

If I recall correctly, there's a calc placing Tao at mach 8. Nothing more than that I've seen.

catching objects that travel around a world in moments

Assume you're referring to the Dragon Balls. No actual measurement as to how fast those were even going, bud. For all you know those balls could pick up acceleration after they start flying.

After that he was stated to be trained to be faster than lightning

This is an empty statement and not a feat.

And Raditz blitzed this Goku. Ichigo has nothing on that.

The best you can do is a statement. Ichigo could be anywhere, but with Dragon Ball, people typically only want to go with the high end stuff. *shrugs*

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#43 Posted by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: in DB anything which happens off guard by super human beings can be a serious issue for them, Vegeta getting cut, Goku getting the ray gun through his chest, krillin getting hurt by a bullet, Goku getting scratched by a bullet. But other than that you can never see low feats on cutting/piercing attacks other than the Kienzan which is one of the most OP attacks in DB, i still wonder why nobody uses the combo solar flar and Kienzan. Trunks cutting Frieza is not a low end feat mor of a stronger character cutting through a weaker character, this however is not the case here imo.

I never deny this, in fact I agree completely. My point is that Vegeta's ki was big enough to not even Krillin manage to approach, Krillin never complained about this against Raditz, The Saibamen or Base Vegeta.

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#44 Edited by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x said:

=

Gohan and Krillin was both paralyzed ergo not able to get their guards up. In this fight this is not what is gonna happen. Radditz won't let his guard down or will not be unable to keep his guard up against Ichigo.

What this even mean ? They are paralyzed this is obviously, but when was said that that they couldn't get their guard up ? They simple couldn't move themselves because Guldo stop their movements with his TK.

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#45 Posted by Kratosx64x (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: True, but i think Radditz and Ichigo aren't to far away strength wise so i don't see how that is going to be a thing. BUT if Radditz takes enough damage it could affect him. It really comes down how long the fight goes. If Radditz ends it quick it will be over. After a few min of fighting however the clock will work against him.

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#46 Posted by Jatom22 (1856 posts) - - Show Bio

@crimson_lord: scaling ichigo to ichibei would make sense wouldn't it. Ichigos bread and butter is speed and power. Ichibeis biggest weapon is hax. Saying ichigo is as fast if not faster doesn't seem crazy. If your going strictly by feats that's different

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#47 Posted by Kratosx64x (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: normally, when you are paralyzed you can't use your abilities, body, concentrate or build a guard around you. That should be common sense.

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#48 Edited by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x said:

@joviolma: True, but i think Radditz and Ichigo aren't to far away strength wise so i don't see how that is going to be a thing. BUT if Radditz takes enough damage it could affect him. It really comes down how long the fight goes. If Radditz ends it quick it will be over. After a few min of fighting however the clock will work against him.

I don't remember too much strength feats for Ichigo, he destroyed a LDR but this was a Energy Based technique.

If the Fight last too long, Raditz win, Goku ran through the snake way for 28 hours at full speed non stop so Raditz should scale to him since is likely due to their biology.

I only give that for Ichigo cuz of Speed and his sword, remove the sword and he don't have a way to put Raditz down.

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#49 Posted by JOVIOLMA (7370 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: normally, when you are paralyzed you can't use your abilities, body, concentrate or build a guard around you. That should be common sense.

Fair enough, although I believe that they have a bit of Ki protecting their bodies since I don't believe that all their Ki would disappear with the Paralyze.

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#50 Posted by Kratosx64x (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: no but i still think that it will not be enough for them to protect themselves from the trees. DB characters need more than that against these kind of attacks.