Ichigo (Vasto Lorde form) vs Naruto (End of war arc)

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By LordRamsay24

No Caption Provided

Vs

No Caption Provided

Before the narutards, and bleach tards get on I am going to give my opinion.

Speed: I think Ichigo beats Naruto here, the following scan shows Yoruichi, Soi fon, and even lieutenant level soul reapers reacting to light, and dodging it.

https://imgur.com/a/KOImP

Now Naruto can react to light too if we take what we see her at face value.

No Caption Provided

But this is Naruto in his six paths form. The feat we see Naruto perform is more impressive than the lieutenant feat, but let me elaborate.

Lieutenants who are considered to be quite slow, and weak in the soul society are still capable of moving at massively hypersonic speeds but can also react to light. Now lets look at Ichigo. In shikai state Ichigo is at captain level reaction speed, and low captain level speed still able to react to attacks launched by other captains (though he usually struggles) We know this from his fight with Kenpachi onward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4FjiAoXIoc

If we assume that at this point Ichigo in shikai state is massively hypersonic, then we can increase his speed by about 10 times after his bankai release. It could be 5 times but considering speed is his bankai's strength I would say 10 times. Yourichi stated that bankai release increases ones power by 5-10 times. Ichigo's hollowfication would increase his speed 10 times again which stacks with his bankai, and is as strong as a bankai as shown when Koname fights Sajin. (bad quality video but you get the point if you watch it).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ7BjUiElFQ

Finally, Ichigo's vasto lorde form increases his speed by a further 10 times. So we have lieutenants reacting to light who are much we weaker than Ichigo. Therefore, Ichigo can react to light as well, and is likely faster than Naruto.

No Caption Provided

Also, Ichigo is fast enough to make clones with his SPEED in just his bankai release. Naruto has never been shown to be able to do this with his speed. Yes I know speed doesn't work that way, but in shonen anime it does.

Ignoring that, Naruto seems to only be able to achieve short bursts of speed. He spends a lot of time running like a normal human being at very unimpressive speeds. Ichigo rarely does that during combat.

Finally destructive power.

In the following sequence, Ichigo displays the ability to destroy the chains of hell and to destroy hell itself in Vasto Lorde form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=7G8O6ivWdbo

Yamamoto himself confirmed that Ichigo was capable of this. This is someone who was able to destroy the soul society just with his presence in bankai state which is assumed to be the size of the earth believed this feat to be impossible. Kurama has never done anything on this scale. Hell I would say even Naruto would be hardpressed to do this because even Naruto fighting at full strength did not threaten to destroy Earth. Ichigo going full hollow would. Not to mention that hell could be the size of multiple planets if we assume each layer to be the size of a planet. That might be stretching it so I will just assume that all of hell is the size of one planet. Still, the feats you see are superior to anything Kurama or even Naruto has done. Destroying chains may not seem that impressive at first but it really is in this context.

This movie was supervised by Tite Kubo so we know it is accurate.\

Durability is kind of up in the air. The characters are as durable as the story needs them to be and it is very inconsistent (Naruto being defeated by mere shuriken for example)

Naruto is not planet level because he never threatens to destroy Earth fighting at full strength. Ichigo on the other hand would. Even if we assume Naruto is planet level, Ichigo almost certainly in Vasto lorde form has greater destructive power. I love Naruto, and I love bleach but Ichigo wins this in my opinion. If you want to dispute this, I want solid proof that Naruto can casually destroy a planet because that is how significant destroying the chains of hell is.

I would love to hear what others have to say nonetheless :) As you can probably tell I am a bit more bleach savy but again I am not biased. I love Naruto too. I just want proof that he is stronger.

Avatar image for ourmanuel
ourmanuel

15379

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Yare Yare...

The mismatch is strong...as well as the wank...

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By LordRamsay24

@ourmanuel: Yeah how so? Have you even watched the video of Ichigo destroying the chains of hell, and nuking the shit out of it? I just ask for proof if you give me enough solid proof I will change my opinion.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e
deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e

1532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Naruto one shots and he's faster. Creating afterimages isn't that good a feat Rock Lee did it way back on the Forest of Death.

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mister_stark: The feat I showed you in the gif was BANKAI release. Increase that by 10 times two times over. And not to mention that Lieutenants can react to light and they are considered weak in bleach. This puts Ichigo at faster than light or at least light speed. Please watch the video I provided that proves he is on a different level.

Avatar image for phantomrant
PhantomRant

1574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6  Edited By PhantomRant

So yeah I'm just going to ignore the OP because its full of the typical bleach speed wank seen in comicvine over the past few years

and say that Naruto one-shots because of vastly superior firepower

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7  Edited By LordRamsay24

@phantomrant: Proof? Yamamoto stated himself that Ichigo can destroy hell. Please watch the video.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e
deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e

1532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lordramsay24: Byakuya matched Ichigo's speed in Bankai by increasing his petal speed by 2, that means Ichigo's Bankai isn't 10x speed increase. In fact it was never stated to effect speed at all only power.

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mister_stark: Ok as I asked the others I want proof that Naruto can destroy a planet. If he can't do that he isn't on Ichigo's level period. Speed is also mass times acceleration so if Ichigo has more destructive power then Ichigo is likely faster. Also, Narutos casual punches and kicks do not destroy mountains or even buildings most of the time. Ichigos on the other hand do.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e
deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e

1532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mister_stark: He can destroy hell which is AT LEAST the size of one planet. We could even put it at multi-planetary level if we assume each layer is the size of a planet but I am going to stick with the size of a single planet.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e
deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e

1532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lordramsay24: In a movie which is non canon. If we are using info that isn't Canon Kaguya can blow up Galaxy's and Naruto can match her. Now show me 1 scan of Ichigo blowing something up that's above Island level or he's not on Naruto's level period.

PS: he didn't destroy hell only the gates.

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13  Edited By LordRamsay24

@mister_stark: Here we see Ichigo casually stop a Lanza from Ulquiorra which can create a blast that dwarfs Los Noches. Los Noches is the size of a small country.

No Caption Provided

And the movie was supervised by Tite Kubo so it is a perfectly legitimate source.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e
deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e

1532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lordramsay24: It never dwarfed LN, all it did was bust a hole in the roof and it's not small country in size it takes 3 days to walk around that's 90ish miles when wanked that's barley a decent sized Island. It doesn't matter if he was supervisor it's still not canon. Also he cancelled the attack out he didn't tank it nor is that what I asked. I said show me a feat of Ichigo blowing up something (above) Island level.

Avatar image for hittheassasin
HitTheAssasin

9793

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Naruto stomps.

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16  Edited By LordRamsay24

Trying to find the scan but to make things easier watch the last bit of the fight between Ichigo and Ulquiorra (There is really no difference between the anime and manga in this context). His ceros were much stronger than Ulquiorra's Lanza.

More things to keep in mind.

All espadas are capable of destroying Los Noches with Gran rey cero (or at least a good portion of it) They don't use it because it is forbidden within Los Noches. Ulquiorra's first release which is 10 times weaker than his segunda etapa can destroy Los Noches as well. In fact, all Espadas of 4 and higher can destroy Los Noches with their release. That is why they weren't allowed to use it in Los Noches. This was stated by Ulquiorra. Ichigo makes them all look weak with regards to raw destructive power.

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@hittheassasin: Proof? I want proof that Naruto can achieve a feat similar to destroying the chains of hell, and hell.

Avatar image for faradaysloth
FaradaySloth

17429

Forum Posts

129

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Lel

Avatar image for deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e
deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e

1532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lordramsay24: LN is still only small Island sized. And I've read and watched this Nate before nothing new has happened since then. He's not on Naruto's level.

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Guys... You just say Naruto stomps so far no one has given me solid proof that he is faster, nor that he is much more powerful than a hell busting Ichigo.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e
deactivated-5d7ba2bb87d2e

1532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lordramsay24: Well he never busted hell only the gate, and it's not canon. So people are probably not taking you seriously especially when I've already explained this to you.

Avatar image for kalebsmarty156
Kalebsmarty156

5574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for kalebsmarty156
Kalebsmarty156

5574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lordramsay24: No you're not allowed to have a winner before making this battle. Or at least keep it to yourself and not let it be obvious...

Avatar image for fullmetalemprah
FullMetalEmprah

5900

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

So if we accept your scaling, Ichigo blitzes and one shots since Naruto is Lieutenant level? But if we don't then Naruto blitzes and one shots since VL Ichigo doesn't have the feats and scaling to compete? Mismatch either way, flagged.

Avatar image for lordramsay24
LordRamsay24

102

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27  Edited By LordRamsay24

@kalebsmarty156: Ok well no one has had a problem with me having a winner in mind before.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d5d8c614fa9a
deactivated-5d5d8c614fa9a

4114

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

you should've have used BM naruto...wait nvm he stomps this ichigo too.lmao

SOSP naruto stomps every version of ichigo, why create this?

Good try tho....

Avatar image for kalebsmarty156
Kalebsmarty156

5574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lordramsay24: Well either they don't know that's against the rules or they were to busy tryna convince you ichigo hell busting feat is non canon.

Avatar image for wanderez
Wanderez

6401

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lordramsay24: No you're not allowed to have a winner before making this battle. Or at least keep it to yourself and not let it be obvious...

99% of the Naruto vs Bleach battles are being made with clear winner in mind, the purpose is to keep the flame war, not to see who wins, because you're unsure.

Avatar image for kalebsmarty156
Kalebsmarty156

5574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Hehe look who decided to come... anyway that's irrelevant Because this guy pretty much is telling everyone who he thinks wins...

Avatar image for rabii99
Rabii99

2627

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

There's several problems with this. Lieutenants don't have LS reactions unless you think they can all casually react to Gin's Bankai. War arc Naruto reacting to the lightfang(which isn't contradicted by any anti-feat) still gives him higher speed.

Even if we accepted full hollow Ichigo as planet/dimension busting, what does that say about his durability again? Naruto still blitzes and one-shots.

Avatar image for earendill
Earendill

3494

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

Speed: I think Ichigo beats Naruto here, the following scan shows Yoruichi, Soi fon, and even lieutenant level soul reapers reacting to light, and dodging it.

https://imgur.com/a/KOImP

Now Naruto can react to light too if we take what we see her at face value.

But this is Naruto in his six paths form. The feat we see Naruto perform is more impressive than the lieutenant feat, but let me elaborate.

Lieutenants who are considered to be quite slow, and weak in the soul society are still capable of moving at massively hypersonic speeds but can also react to light. Now lets look at Ichigo. In shikai state Ichigo is at captain level reaction speed, and low captain level speed still able to react to attacks launched by other captains (though he usually struggles) We know this from his fight with Kenpachi onward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4FjiAoXIoc

If we assume that at this point Ichigo in shikai state is massively hypersonic, then we can increase his speed by about 10 times after his bankai release. It could be 5 times but considering speed is his bankai's strength I would say 10 times. Yourichi stated that bankai release increases ones power by 5-10 times. Ichigo's hollowfication would increase his speed 10 times again which stacks with his bankai, and is as strong as a bankai as shown when Koname fights Sajin. (bad quality video but you get the point if you watch it).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ7BjUiElFQ

Finally, Ichigo's vasto lorde form increases his speed by a further 10 times. So we have lieutenants reacting to light who are much we weaker than Ichigo. Therefore, Ichigo can react to light as well, and is likely faster than Naruto.

Also, Ichigo is fast enough to make clones with his SPEED in just his bankai release. Naruto has never been shown to be able to do this with his speed. Yes I know speed doesn't work that way, but in shonen anime it does.

Ignoring that, Naruto seems to only be able to achieve short bursts of speed. He spends a lot of time running like a normal human being at very unimpressive speeds. Ichigo rarely does that during combat.

No Caption Provided

Lol, man. No! Naruto crosses the country of Sis from Konohagakure in two steps (2 second).

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Moreover, Naruto Genins are much faster than the picture above.

Finally destructive power.

In the following sequence, Ichigo displays the ability to destroy the chains of hell and to destroy hell itself in Vasto Lorde form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=7G8O6ivWdbo

Yamamoto himself confirmed that Ichigo was capable of this. This is someone who was able to destroy the soul society just with his presence in bankai state which is assumed to be the size of the earth believed this feat to be impossible. Kurama has never done anything on this scale. Hell I would say even Naruto would be hardpressed to do this because even Naruto fighting at full strength did not threaten to destroy Earth. Ichigo going full hollow would. Not to mention that hell could be the size of multiple planets if we assume each layer to be the size of a planet. That might be stretching it so I will just assume that all of hell is the size of one planet. Still, the feats you see are superior to anything Kurama or even Naruto has done. Destroying chains may not seem that impressive at first but it really is in this contex.

Lol. Only one of Naruto's thousands of clones is doing this;

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for juzacloud
JuzaCloud

4843

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Chapter 5 Ichigo stomps

Avatar image for kalebsmarty156
Kalebsmarty156

5574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Lol wtf^

Avatar image for wanderez
Wanderez

6401

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Hehe look who decided to come... anyway that's irrelevant Because this guy pretty much is telling everyone who he thinks wins...

This isnt the first time, nor the last.

Avatar image for wot_m8
Wot_m8

5068

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for kalebsmarty156
Kalebsmarty156

5574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

:/

Avatar image for hittheassasin
HitTheAssasin

9793

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@hittheassasin: Proof? I want proof that Naruto can achieve a feat similar to destroying the chains of hell, and hell.

Even if either of these were really quantifiable(they're not really), and if Ichigo had actually achieved the second one(he didn't), it wouldn't matter, since absolutely nothing indicates the film is even the least bit canon.

Avatar image for worldofruin6
WorldofRuin6

4924

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

INB4 the ? .

OT: SO6P Naruto low diffs every version of Ichigo simultaneously.

Avatar image for joviolma
JOVIOLMA

12059

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

BSM Naruto alone can deal with VL Ichigo, SPSM Naruto effortless stomps every single version of Manga Ichigo

@emperorthanos- Spite, and the OP has a obviously winner in my mind while debating on his own thread