Iceman vs Wally West

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Jamzino24

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  • New 52- Present
  • Who wins and why
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UltraPhoenix

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#2  Edited By UltraPhoenix

Can Iceman even be put down physically? Does he have any resistance to Wally's hax like speed steal or freezing time? Not sure if he can even tag Wally.

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DatStupidGuy

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Not even sure if Wally can even harm Ice Man.

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ProfessorRespect

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Iceman loses, as per usual.

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Jamzino24

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bump

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byondeon

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Isn't this a fight that can't really end with a victor. Wally can't really put Iceman down but Bobby can't do anything to Flash.

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Tvenger

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#8  Edited By Tvenger

@byondeon said:

Isn't this a fight that can't really end with a victor. Wally can't really put Iceman down but Bobby can't do anything to Flash.

Isn't ice Flash's weakness?

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byondeon

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@tvenger: Not really sure. Dont remember him having trouble with cold once he mastered the speed..

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Tvenger

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#10  Edited By Tvenger

@byondeon said:

@tvenger: Not really sure. Dont remember him having trouble with cold once he mastered the speed..

Isn't cold how Freeze and Captain Cold always stood a chance against him? I thought his weakness was absolute zero. If so if Wally punches Bobby, and Bobby is absolute zero, shouldn't he die?

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Spiders13

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#11  Edited By Spiders13

Iceman wins.

He drops the temps down to nothing at all. Below sub zero temps.

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destinyman75

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While Iceman CAN win due to zero. Wally can too because Bobby has been KO'd before by people like Thor etc depends toss a coin

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Punyaamrit

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Only thing Wally can do here is knocking out Iceman or going back in time to kill bobby.

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Ancient_0f_Days

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Isnt current wally like, a god?

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Alisupo1

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Wally kinda stomps

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Stezzy

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#16  Edited By Stezzy

Iceman flash freeze the entire area. He's one of the few non godlike people in comics that can comfortably deal with the Flash family imo. Busted af regen, ice clones, crazy AoE, potent ice that can freeze Juggernaut in place and on a molecular level. Iceman counters him

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Punyaamrit

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@stezzy said:

Iceman flash freeze the entire area. He's one of the few non godlike people in comics that can comfortably deal with the Flash family imo. Busted af regen, ice clones, crazy AoE, potent ice that can freeze Juggernaut in place and on a molecular level. Iceman counters him

What if Wally blitzed iceman before he could react.

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marygcrisostomo

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If KO can count as a win then Wally West. If need be kill then Iceman will win eventually

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Stezzy

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@stezzy said:

Iceman flash freeze the entire area. He's one of the few non godlike people in comics that can comfortably deal with the Flash family imo. Busted af regen, ice clones, crazy AoE, potent ice that can freeze Juggernaut in place and on a molecular level. Iceman counters him

What if Wally blitzed iceman before he could react.

Then he reforms while spamming hundreds of clones in the process or just for the fun of it he could just cover himself in ice spikes and let Flash impale himself. Flash needs more than just speed and brute physical force to take down Iceman

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ProfessorRespect

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#20  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

@stezzy said:
@punyaamrit said:
@stezzy said:

Iceman flash freeze the entire area. He's one of the few non godlike people in comics that can comfortably deal with the Flash family imo. Busted af regen, ice clones, crazy AoE, potent ice that can freeze Juggernaut in place and on a molecular level. Iceman counters him

What if Wally blitzed iceman before he could react.

Then he reforms while spamming hundreds of clones in the process or just for the fun of it he could just cover himself in ice spikes and let Flash impale himself. Flash needs more than just speed and brute physical force to take down Iceman

I'm pretty sure Bobby can't completely reform without a external source to reform with. He needed it to rain for him to reform the last time he pulled off the trick.

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TifaLockhart

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You don't need to kill to win.

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Stezzy

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@stezzy said:
@punyaamrit said:
@stezzy said:

Iceman flash freeze the entire area. He's one of the few non godlike people in comics that can comfortably deal with the Flash family imo. Busted af regen, ice clones, crazy AoE, potent ice that can freeze Juggernaut in place and on a molecular level. Iceman counters him

What if Wally blitzed iceman before he could react.

Then he reforms while spamming hundreds of clones in the process or just for the fun of it he could just cover himself in ice spikes and let Flash impale himself. Flash needs more than just speed and brute physical force to take down Iceman

I'm pretty sure Bobby can't completely reform without a external source to reform with. He needed it to rain for him to reform the last time he pulled off the trick.

He can completely reform just from the moisture in the air alone and that's all he needs.

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ProfessorRespect

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@stezzy: Not exactly consistent with his power set considering he's needed external sources multiple times to do such a thing. It simply isn't something he does very often.

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TifaLockhart

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Iceman wins because Flash doesn't kill.

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ProfessorRespect

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Iceman wins because Flash doesn't kill.

He can just knock Bobby out.

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Stezzy

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@stezzy: Not exactly consistent with his power set considering he's needed external sources multiple times to do such a thing. It simply isn't something he does very often.

Seriously can we not do this whole "consistency thing" when debating comics. It's all so tiresome. I don't feel like bringing up scans of everyone in the Flash family jobbing to much slower characters. We can be here all night talking about why X character didnt do this or that during this writer or that writer's run. It's just too tiresome and makes these debates pointless.

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TifaLockhart

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UltraPhoenix

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Seems like OP didn't set a specific win condition, what's to stop Flash from stealing his speed or using some other time hax?

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TifaLockhart

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@stezzy: While we are at it we should use Hulk destroying an asteroid twice the size of Earth and Rhino punching Nova into space and ignore other consistent showings.

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ProfessorRespect

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@professorrespect: he will eventually die of old age while Bobby is immortal.

And Bobby would get knocked out beforehand. He's not this super OP immortal clone god or whatever wank says. He's a mid tier that gets jobbed out in X-Men groups all the time.

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ProfessorRespect

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#31  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

@stezzy said:
@professorrespect said:

@stezzy: Not exactly consistent with his power set considering he's needed external sources multiple times to do such a thing. It simply isn't something he does very often.

Seriously can we not do this whole "consistency thing" when debating comics. It's all so tiresome. I don't feel like bringing up scans of everyone in the Flash family jobbing to much slower characters. We can be here all night talking about why X character didnt do this or that during this writer or that writer's run. It's just too tiresome and makes these debates pointless.

Well jobbing isn't consistent unless said character jobs for a majority, which I don't think Wally does unless I'm mistaken. Regardless, if we ignore consistency and just go with whatever you'd just say that Wally BFR's Bobby into the Speed Force in LS speed or steals his speed at MFTL pace and then has his way with him.

Consistency is the backbone of VS debating: if you don't like it, not much I can do there I'm afraid.

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TifaLockhart

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@professorrespect: how does New 52-Rebirth Flash deal with absolute zero? Because it's apparently Iceman's opening move against an unknown opponent. That and skewering fellow heroes.

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ProfessorRespect

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#33  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

@tifalockhart said:

@professorrespect: how does New 52-Rebirth Flash deal with absolute zero? Because it's apparently Iceman's opening move against an unknown opponent. That and skewering fellow heroes.

Well I'd love to see Bobby do something like that at anything beyond street level speed, but I don't think those scans exist. Who needs consistency anyway?

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Stezzy

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#34  Edited By Stezzy

@professorrespect said:
@stezzy said:
@professorrespect said:

@stezzy: Not exactly consistent with his power set considering he's needed external sources multiple times to do such a thing. It simply isn't something he does very often.

Seriously can we not do this whole "consistency thing" when debating comics. It's all so tiresome. I don't feel like bringing up scans of everyone in the Flash family jobbing to much slower characters. We can be here all night talking about why X character didnt do this or that during this writer or that writer's run. It's just too tiresome and makes these debates pointless.

Well jobbing isn't consistent unless said character jobs for a majority, which I don't think Wally does unless I'm mistaken. Regardless, if we ignore consistency and just go with whatever you'd just say that Wally BFR's Bobby into the Speed Force in LS speed or steals his speed at MFTL pace and then has his way with him.

Consistency is the backbone of VS debating: if you don't like it, not much I can do there I'm afraid.

When debating which fictional character would win in a fight the major factors that should be taken into consideration is their stats and abilities and how they would theoretically interact with their opponents. Does my character have an ability that counters the other character? If so then his chances of winning this theoretical battle increased. Doe he has any exploitable weakness? His his stats weaker than the other character's? If yes then his chances of winning is even smaller. If you say "Oh well your character has abilities that counter mine but he cant use them in this theoretical battle because X writer didnt include said abilities in his run like Y writer did therefore he has no access to them here makes the fight pointless because the character isnt allowed to use an ability he has because the guy debating against him says so which makes the debate pointless

I dont like screwattack's deathbattle but I agree with their overall method of determining a winner. Like I already mentioned, screwattack comes to the conclusion by analyzing what a character CAN and HAS done with is own ability without taking into account of how many times hes actually done it unless for story reasons he cant do those abilities again. My problem with the way you guys debate is that you guys believe that the only admissible abilities for characters are abilities that are used in the more recent runs. The main argument I see on this site is "lol then how come he didnt use said ability when he fought x character?"

The result should be based on overall abilities, how theyre applied and stats and nothing else otherwise the debates just get ugly, boring and turn into a downplay slugfest

As for your Flash bfr/speed steal argument, you guys basically already use this argument in literally every Flash thread ever.

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ProfessorRespect

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@stezzy said:
@professorrespect said:
@stezzy said:
@professorrespect said:

@stezzy: Not exactly consistent with his power set considering he's needed external sources multiple times to do such a thing. It simply isn't something he does very often.

Seriously can we not do this whole "consistency thing" when debating comics. It's all so tiresome. I don't feel like bringing up scans of everyone in the Flash family jobbing to much slower characters. We can be here all night talking about why X character didnt do this or that during this writer or that writer's run. It's just too tiresome and makes these debates pointless.

Well jobbing isn't consistent unless said character jobs for a majority, which I don't think Wally does unless I'm mistaken. Regardless, if we ignore consistency and just go with whatever you'd just say that Wally BFR's Bobby into the Speed Force in LS speed or steals his speed at MFTL pace and then has his way with him.

Consistency is the backbone of VS debating: if you don't like it, not much I can do there I'm afraid.

When debating which fictional character would win in a fight the major factors that should be taken into consideration is their stats and abilities and how they would theoretically interact with their opponents. Does my character have an ability that counters the other character? If so then his chances of winning this theoretical battle increased. Doe he has any exploitable weakness? His his stats weaker than the other character's? If yes then his chances of winning is even smaller. If you say "Oh well your character has abilities that counter mine but he cant use them in this theoretical battle because X writer didnt include said abilities in his run like Y writer did therefore he has no access to them here makes the fight pointless because the character isnt allowed to use an ability he has because the guy debating against him says so which makes the debate pointless

Well no, you need to prove that your character is consistently able to use said abilities. If we ignore that, then I could just say Wally blitzes at LS speed and BFR's Bobby into the Speedforce because he can do those things, and that isn't very fair.

I dont like screwattack's deathbattle but Iagree with their overall method of determining a winner

With wank and pointless calculations?

The result should be based on overall abilities

And how consistent those abilities are. If you can't prove it is, then you can't say it'll happen in a random encounter.

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TifaLockhart

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@stezzy: without averaging showings and taking tactics into account, we don't debate characters; we debate power sets like on CBR.

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ProfessorRespect

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@stezzy: without averaging showings and taking tactics into account, we don't debate characters; we debate power sets like on CBR.

Thankfully

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Punyaamrit

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This might be a stalemate since wally doesn't use any of his hax consistently and Iceman can't catch wally.

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ProfessorRespect

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This might be a stalemate since wally doesn't use any of his hax consistently and Iceman can't catch wally.

Iron Fist punching Bobby a good amount of times did the job.

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Tedirey

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@punyaamrit said:

This might be a stalemate since wally doesn't use any of his hax consistently and Iceman can't catch wally.

Iron Fist punching Bobby a good amount of times did the job.

Is Iceman knocked out? I'm about to vote for Bobby because of his near NLF BS and Wally having difficulties with ice-based villains but this might change everything.

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Natrium11

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Wally kinda stomps

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ProfessorRespect

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@tedirey said:
@professorrespect said:
@punyaamrit said:

This might be a stalemate since wally doesn't use any of his hax consistently and Iceman can't catch wally.

Iron Fist punching Bobby a good amount of times did the job.

Is Iceman knocked out? I'm about to vote for Bobby because of his near NLF BS and Wally having difficulties with ice-based villains but this might change everything.

He wasn't knocked out in that instance, but he couldn't do anything either. It's not like Bobby can't be knocked out as well: that's just CV wank talking.

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ODIN619360

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Wally West has this.

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deactivated-60ee0713dd622

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Iceman has this. Is there any reason he won't have his ice field up before the battle starts?

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ProfessorRespect

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Iceman has this. Is there any reason he won't have his ice field up before the battle starts?

When does regular Iceman have his "ice field" up anyway?

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SladerAcer

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How fast is iceman? .. Wally can do many things before Bobby can act/react, depending on his stats ofc.

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ODIN619360

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@darthsuper: Wally West can react to everything he can through at him. Wally is a beast speedster who takes a 10/10 win.

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deactivated-60ee0713dd622

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@darthsuper: Wally West can react to everything he can through at him. Wally is a beast speedster who takes a 10/10 win.

I get it. Wally West is a walking plot device. I already knew that.

@darthsuper said:

Iceman has this. Is there any reason he won't have his ice field up before the battle starts?

When does regular Iceman have his "ice field" up anyway?

It would be really stupid for him not to, considering he could stop most people in their tracks with an ice field. But I guess they can't have him being unbeatable.

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HellionVulcan

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Iceman freezes him and he doesn't need to see him either

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ProfessorRespect

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@odin619360 said:

@darthsuper: Wally West can react to everything he can through at him. Wally is a beast speedster who takes a 10/10 win.

I get it. Wally West is a walking plot device. I already knew that.

@professorrespect said:
@darthsuper said:

Iceman has this. Is there any reason he won't have his ice field up before the battle starts?

When does regular Iceman have his "ice field" up anyway?

It would be really stupid for him not to, considering he could stop most people in their tracks with an ice field. But I guess they can't have him being unbeatable.

Bobby isn't very good with speedsters.