Iceman VS Hulk

iceman as far as he isn't jobbing

@hellionvulcan: seems i struck a nerve, awwww.

Never, you know i like you that's why i keep tagging you all the time, our discussions are genuinely the most fun i have on this site and don't worry i wont leave you alone any time soon :)

It's comics and nobody is unkillable either as Zeus could murder Immortal Hulk all day and night unopposed so could Thanos Iceman etc.

True, but for the purpose of current Hulk, he pretty much is, at least when it comes to lesser beings. Since even when asked on twitter if Galactus could kill the Hulk his genuine answer is he isn't sure. That alone should tell you that someone like Iceman is never even coming close. As for Zeus and Thanos, again it depends on the writer it's possible Zeus could use some magic to negate Hulks immortality but we don't know if that's possible as of yet, however i am skeptical Thanos could do it.

Has it been stated in comics that Iceman got an amp, no (I think Loki did once but unsure) but has his power level changed, yes.

Do you have the scan from Loki? Cause if that is true than that adds a lot. I think the Death Seed did amp him. Gambit who still had the DS, seems to suggest it as he monologues about the DS laying dormant inside him

same as Wolverine who also had the DS

LOL to the first part considering you named someone who gave Hulk a lightspeed feat that doesn't actually exist, Grim Reaper explained that they can damage/kill each other due to them being related hence why Reaper was able to maul Wonder man until he was ko'd,

I dunno if you want to discredit someone like GR who has garnered more respect on these forums than just about anyone, especially since you yourself have said some pretty wacky things about Iceman, Glaiator, Apoc and even Namor for no apparent reason other than to just spite Hulk.

GR didn't give Hulk a lightspeed feat he extrapolated that what Hulk did against Surfer is a feat close to lightspeed, although obviously that wasn't the writers intention it just came out that way, so he wasn't wrong and don't worry he doesn't think Hulk is lightspeed either.

Yes and GR did it even more so casually then ever before.

Doesn't prove he was amp'd in the slightest as immense sound is going to vibrate around the shield which is what it did knocking Havok and wasp down, Neither was ko'd or harmed by the attack.

The majority of the attack was directed and absorbed by the shield you know this, you can clearly see this.

Show me Sentry struggling with Iron man on panel since it never happened as it's like two/three scans and not once was Bob in trouble nor struggling,He literally one shot the Hulkbuster armor with his optic blast and the fight between the two was instantly over.

He got slammed into a building by him then held down with 1 arm. Again he did not one-shot the Hulkbuster as that would suggest he either destroyed it, damaged it beyond repair, or simply took it out of the fight in some way. In reality the suit is standing literally behind Tony and most of it is intact, to the point of Tony just sliding back into it helping Sentry fight a character that was mauling him throughout the issue.

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You can't say the suit got one-shot when all Tony did was just jump back into it and it was ready to brawl again. That's not how a one-shot works.

Show me where it stated Iceman was amp'd as i haven't seen it and the celestial tech bypassed Cyttorak's power as Apocalypse mentions it on panel, i thought a Hulk fanatic would've known that since well he's your character lol.

What is Death Seed? It's literal CELESTIAL TECH, it was made by celestial, that is what Apoc is referring to, the Seed which is a technology made by Celestials is what amped Hulk to do what he did to Juggernaut there.

Hulk bested two Avengers teams, one that was heavy fatigued and injured and the other that had a jobber Thor and co all of which Iceman would tear through from across the planet with the upmost ease, I won't get it through my head that Hulk hasn't displayed a single way to defeat Iceman but logically Iceman has displayed numerous ways of murdering Hulk without Hulk being a challenge.

Poor excuses on your part.

First off the only ones fatigued and injured in the first Avengers team were Quicksilver and Canonball, two characters that made no difference whatsoever as they were casually swept away. The main Avengers roaster was not fatigued at all and that includes Vision, Thor, Hercules, Rogue and again they made no difference in fact you can make more of an argument that by the time Hulk got to them he should be the one fatigued as he just spent his time fighting over half a dozen people while Jane, Herc and Rogue haven't fought anyone for hours and were completely fresh. So this is a very poor argument.

Secondly calling Thor jobber just because Hulk one-shot him is again a poor lazy argument to make only when you run out of anyone else. I warned you about this before, Hulk is only gonna get more powerful this was already confirmed he is only gonna fight more and more powerful beings in 3 issues he fights a Celestial being, in the Defenders they together fight a being that threatens their entire solar system and in January and moving forward he will be fighting some Hell-lords, you are doing yourself a disservice and only look more and more ridiculous as you make up nonsense excuses for why Hulk is doing all of this instead of just acknowledging the most simplest of things as that is Hulk is just made to be more powerful. Hulk has a way to defeat Iceman which is destroying him over and over until Iceman exhaust himself like he did in the past, however Iceman has no way of dealing with the Hulk, why you go out of your way to discredit yourself even further by saying he can kill someone that the writer explained is currently unkillable is beyond me.

Because formulating a legit way to defeat Iceman isn't possible for a character like Hulk and they know it too.

Oh please, i already posted examples of the ways Hulk can defeat Iceman multiple times above.

By everyone you mean ONE person? So far only one person is actually putting forward an argument and i count about a dozen people saying Iceman or Iceman stomps without explanation. You also must have missed several of my posts where i explain just how Hulk can beat Iceman, but i'll bite and give you a detailed rundown so you wont miss it a second time.

For starters Bobby isn't nearly as powerful as people make him out to be. The one person arguing for him is almost exclusively using Bobby's showings from Astonishing X-men. In this story line Bobby went a drastic change in terms of his power level and morals. He was embedded with the Death Seed that amplified his powers drastically.

He did things he was never able to do before or after this. Which include covering most of NY and surrounding area in ice, fighting off Thor, creates ice so sharp it can easily pierce through Thor, etc... The problem with using this is simple

• During most of the story line Bobby was amped by the DS
• Bobbys morals were completely off
• He preformed feats that are beyond anything he did before or after this

Using this SINGLE storyline and ignore 99% of Icemans other showings is akin making a Hulk vs Thor thread in which a user for some inexplicable reason uses WBH to debate instead of regular Hulk and threats WBH as the standard Hulk power level.

Now what are the claims being made that Bobby can do to Hulk in the first place? So far i have seen 3 claims

• Bobby transmutes Hulk
• Bobby disintegrates Hulk
• Bobby outright kills Hulk with freezing

First off Bobby has no transmutation abilities. This assumption comes from when Bobby encased Thor and X-men into ice and transported them to different places

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Giving Bobby a high tier ability like transmutation without any concrete evidence is ridiculous, especially when everything simply indicates all he did was just transport everyone through his ice. Even IF Bobby had the ability to transmutate others Hulk has several feats of resisting transmuation which i can bring up here but i still see no point in doing so.

Secondly, Bobby disintegrating Hulk comes literally from nowhere outside of a single statement...

That's it, no feats to or showings to back it up, just a statement from his crazy split morals off persona.

So honestly does this even need addressing? Do i need to pull out counters for an ability Bobby has never shown? Especially against someone like Hulk whose only real current weakness is UV radiation/light, not the cold.

Thirdly Bobby has no way of killing Hulk, this version of Hulk in particular since he is basically immortal and can't die.

https://www.cbr.com/immortal-hulk-bruce-banner-al-ewing-joe-bennett-interview/

Now i don't want to take statements as hard evidence even if they come from the writer himself this is why current Hulk has the showings to confirm he truly can not die as of now. At least not against characters like Bobby i suspect abstract beings could snap their fingers and make Hulk permanently dead, but that would require magic to work around his immortality that Bobby does not even remotely have.

Banner is the one that can die btw but once the night falls he is revived and turned into the Hulk or if Banner is killed during the night he will also instantly transform into the Hulk

Get's shot, is dead for an entire day, once night falls he revives

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Gets his neck broken and instantly revives

Gets his neck slashed, dies and turns to Hulk instantly

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Gets literally disintegrated by Helios a weapon designed to shoot concentrated hardlight UV laser, which is currently Hulks only weakness and even then Banner is the only one dead, while Hulk is alive and wanting to regenerate the only thing preventing him being the UV radiation lamps bombarding Banners body

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In fact in the very next pages we see Hulk revived from this, and even still alive while chopped up into pieces

How exactly does he get out of this we will find out in the next months comic.

However as i said the writer has confirmed that the light is his only weakness now

And yea the writer has confirmed that he could revive himself even from being vaporized, which happened in the comic as well

So i see absolutely no reason as to how Bobby can kill Hulk and he certainly can't freeze him since Hulk has withstood even the coldest thing possible which is absolute zero

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which has even been confirmed in his official bio book

As for how Hulk deals with Iceman, well it has been established time and time again that he needs moisture to survive and to properly heal himself otherwise he will just exhaust himself

He uses water to repair himself

Iron Fist breaks multiple of Icemans clones and he needs rain to repair himself

Deathbird cuts him into pieces and he is unable to immediately repair himself

Gets shattered by Wolverine and is unable to immediately repair himself

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Gets blown up and it takes him several comic issues to repair himself

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BTW these are all modern versions, i haven't even used his earlier versions.

His ice is not particularly strong as countless characters have shattered it with ease

https://imgur.com/a/L7c60

In fact even with amped powers he was unable to contain Marrina

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He passes out after freezing a part of "hell" the size of a football stadium

Exhausts himself after making large ice constructs

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Takes effort to make ice golems and is somewhat exhausted from it

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His durability against physical force is not as great or as limitless as some might think and he can still be hurt, stunned and KO'd.

Colossus staggers and stuns him

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Gets incapacitated after being cut

Is stunned by Sinister and hurt by Mystique

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So my conclusion is Bobby simply doesn't have what it takes to bring the Hulk down and win this, however all Hulk has to do is keep punching Iceman, break his ice constructs until Iceman exhausts himself from the fight and either collapses on his own or is taken out by Hulk who smashes him to pieces.

So yea i hope this is more of an in dept answer then "Hulk smash" as you previously noted.

Iceman stomps if he's not jobbing lol

To be fair the death seed only unlocks latent potential, it's not really an amp in the way that the amp goes away after the item is removed which is why people use Astonishing X-Men, because that is Bobby at full power which he still has access to but is afraid of turning evil again so he doesn't use that level of power.

Bobby absolutely could turn Hulk into water and just leave him like that to win which imo is the only sure way for Bobby to win.

@virtuozzo: Nice. But in the issue where Hulk is cut up into pieces was he alive or was he incapacitated? Since someone did just cut him up and put his pieces into a jar so he likely couldn't fight back. In the issues, Iceman was beaten he wasn't having moisture or having some other problem. He should have the moisture here. To reform.

There is evidence to suggest that DS does amp you, even if we go by it unlocks your latent potential, that would imply it's not a potential Bobby can reach on his own, because of his morals.

I also have not seen any evidence of Bobby transmuting someone on Hulk tier or anyone into water, that would be an extreme outlier feat on the level of Skyfather tier characters, not Iceman.

He is alive but is currently incapacitated, we only get one page shot so we need more context as to what's really going on with the next issue as it's to early to give any concrete answers now. However it wasn't Hulk who was cut into pieces but Banner and then they waited for the Sun to go down so he would transform into Hulk and revive himself

@virtuozzo: Its not really usable as we are not sure of the contexts, yet. In fact it shows that Hulk needs to be away from the Sun to work this level of regeneration because that's being implied in your statements and he was cut up after all. Still, Bobby could reform from Moisture. So I see that both of them can't put down each other this is a stalemate.

Like i said we need to wait for the next issue. Hulk can only exist during the night, so yes he can't heal during the day. This has been established several times, Banner has been dead a whole day and only revived by Hulk when the night falls. Bobby however has a limit to how much he can regenerate and can exhaust himself as he has done so MANY times before. Hulk can't, the only thing that would stop the Hulk is day time, as of now, since this isn't a weakness that's gonna last for much long.

@virtuozzo: Ok. But still, as long as there's moisture. Iceman still is going to reform.

@virtuozzo said:

@mooty_pass said:

Iceman for the Win.

Hulk can’t exactly put him down. Absolute Zero for the Win.

Hulk has resisted absolute zero.

Anyway Hulk wins since Iceman has his limits and can't repair himself indefinitely without a water source, also repairing himself takes time when he is cut up into pieces.

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Resisted not immune learn the difference. Hulk cannot win here.

@termiteone4ever: Dunno if you had another malfunction. But i never said he was immune. Only that he is resistant which means he will resist it if Iceman uses it. You know what resist means or do i need to bring out the dictionary for you?

Iceman cannot win here.

@virtuozzo: Hulk has never resisted Absolute Zero.

Show scans please.

@mooty_pass: Yes he has, on panel as well as supported by his bio book and i've posted it all above.

@virtuozzo: No, he has not......and he was wearing a suit. So, please provide a scan of Hulk(NO suit) resisting Absolute Zero Temps.

Yes he has. The suit had little to nothing to do with him resisting absolute zero temperature there, mostly because it didn't even cover his entire body and even the writer himself has stated the suit was not for Hulk, but for Banner. On top of that it is confirmed by his own bio book that he can resist absolute zero. Provide me scans of Hulk not resisting absolute zero and we can talk.

@mooty_pass: @virtuozzo:

The suit also failed when he entered the fountain, which can be seen by the artwork and how the suit was reacting after Hulk came out of the fountain.

I don't think this is a fight that can be won. Both kind of have the BFR option? Throwing the other into space; but even that's just a temporary setback or win. But I don't think it's in character or either to do it.

Pretty sure Bobby is next to unbeatable via physical attacks, and the Hulk can't really be beaten via any weaponry Bobby can make nor is he vulnerable to any of Bobby's cold attacks.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@bound_elmon99: Nope. You better re-read issue. People were saying that was amp but not actual power amp. Death seed fragment didn't amplify his power, but only opened his mind and allowed him to use his power at a higher capacity without fearing his own abilities. Also Bobby only got portion of it and not actual Death Seed which makes perfect sense with all statements.

I've read it many times and this is flat out false and the only thing it comes from Mystique a completely trustworthy character that isn't just playing with Bobby's mind. I mean her notion is immediately contradicted by herself seeing as soon as she swallows the Death Seed herself from Bobby she gets amped

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Death Seeds do amplify ones power

It's transformation potential unlocks a hidden potential in any character that they can't access themselves and it manifests with different people to a different extent.

No he doesn`t have but instead of that he can disintegrate people. Bobby`s teleportation ability requires him to transform organic matter to ice and back again but in that issue he stated that he could have just left them in disintegrated state where their body would be a mere ice.

Who has Bobby disintegrated? A nonsense statement, because it would require Bobby to literally kill them as he transforms them into ice and then bring them back to life once he transform's them back to themselves. So actually what happened is while Bobby can freeze someone so much they turn to ice, he can't revert them back, so he literally just teleported them through ice in their normal states.

AoA Iceman (Same as 616 but more cold blooded) also replicated same feat and no this wasn`t his persona it was his subconsciousness which wasn`t morals off and he was the one who forced Bobby to become kind hearted again.

AoA is non-canon if you want to talk about AoA Iceman he got killed by getting thrown in a furnace. A subconscious persona of Iceman is still a different persona, you are splitting hairs here.

All of these are his immature versions. Iceman needs help from telepath or an amp (Not actual but one which removes mental issues) to maintain his ''full potential''. Here is statement from a writer who made him Omega level mutant.

So basically this confirms what i have been saying all along? Thanks, i appreciate it. Bobby can't unlock his true potential by himself.

Anti-feats which you used are mostly from 2004-2013 comics (I`m co-creator of a respect thread where you get that feats from) and Iceman consistently started to elevate his powers from 2015 altought he was omega level since 2000.

There are no such thing as anti-feats. 2004-2013 is still modern Iceman. Good for you. Yet even then he is nowhere near the level he was with Death Seed. Omega level is mostly a meaningless statement considering to all of the people it was applied to. I mean Hulk was called an omega level threat and in the same sentence was compared to the Cosmic cube, so yea.

IDC about thread itself and winner of this match but you really should stop spreading false information.

None of what i said is false information, every single thing is backed up by the comic scans i posted. Even the statement from the writer basically confirms this that Iceman on his own, with his own abilities can not reach the full potential of his powers and needs an outside interference in a form of an amp like the Death Seed.

@virtuozzo @hellionvulcan

Iceman received celestial artifact - Death Seed which allowed him to ''play'' with entire ecosystem of planet and was doing things that was out-of-character/excessive for him (not really). First of all Bobby didn't get actual Death Seed , he was just embedded with portion of it. For more proof here's actual physical view of this artifact.

• Original one which firstly appeared in Uncanny X-Force #15 (Archangel , Daken , Banshee , Sentry , Grim Reaper - all of this guys were amped with it).
• And the one which Bobby was amped with.

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See the difference? First one looks like pointed nut and user gets impaled with it , second looks like purple orb and user gets to eat/place it in their body in order to artifact perform its purpose. And then there's statement from Mystique. After Raven uses power of DS , gets defeated by Thor and teleported to Bobby , she literally says that apocalypse power didn't enhance Bobby's current power. It just removed mental barriers and freed his mind to full potential.

Even if we don't take in account this statements and obvious physical evidence , there is still one thing which allows me to confirm my point - What feats occurred during this saga which Bobby previously didn't do?

1. Turning into Vapor/Mist/Steam - Doing this since X-Men Forever/Supernovas of Mike Carey
2. Omnipresence and manipulating/freezing Earth - He did almost same thing in X-Men Forever #5 , except he fused with celestial AI ship with enermous weight instead of Earth.
3. Beating Thor - Iceman was stalemating cosmic being Stranger , overpowering Rulk , She-Hulk , The Thing , etc.
4. Growing as big as skyscrapers - Doing this since Chuck Austen`s X-Men (2004)

All other feats such as - disintegrating people , stabbing Thor , creating massive shockwave with punch , etc. takes place after Thor shatters off-guard Iceman who loses his DS.

You are also saying that Bobby doesn't have an ability to disintegrate people which is complete nonsense. Marvel wikia's outdated power bio (looks like copied from Marvel guidebooks) says that he can transform organic matter into ice and back it again. That's how he merges with water molecules. He can also leave them there without transforming back again at his will.

In Astonishing X-Men #65 Iceman really disintegrated Thor , his hammer and X-Men. There are several feats and statements which confirms it. First being scan where he turns Thor's interal organs into ice and transmutes his brain to ice but suddenly gets interrupted by Opal.

Then he proceeds to really do that. Mystique's hands are slowly turning into mere ice and then Thor screams ''what trickery is this!'' while his body also turns into ice.

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After that Warbird passes out. Gambit asks what's wrong with her , then Karma says that she is cold-blooded and turning into ice is too much for her.

It gets confirmed again , by Iceman's subconsciousness a.k.a doctor

How can Hulk resist this when even Thor who is immune to transmutation couldn`t struggle?

Bobby literally didn't do shit to Thor amped or not. At best, he BFR'd him at the end. Briefly trapped him that one time, but he eventually broke out. Hulk has already no-sold absolute zero. The only thing Bobby has to even come close is scaling through Thor but that instance isn't anywhere as good as people claim. Kuurth is a great example of how this fight goes and Bobby making himself taller than a building won't make any difference either.

@aqualion0: I wanted to respond to your entire post, but there is one part that actually just stunned me and i am still scratching my head over, mainly this

How can Hulk resist this when even Thor who is immune to transmutation couldn`t struggle?

Sorry what? When did Thor become IMMUNE to transmutation? Not only is he not immune, he is less resistant to it then Hulk himself by direct comparison.

Thor has been turned to stone by Grey Gargoyle and remained like that for DAYS

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In comparison Grey Hulk, immediately reversed the transformation with his resistance and healing.

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On top of that if we go to even things like resistance to cold, Thor has come short in comparison to Hulk there as Hulk had to jump in an absolute zero fountain to rescue him.

Hulk resistance to absolute zero is also something supported by his bio book

While Thor on the other hand isn't that great to it, even compared to weaker versions of Hulks family.

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Thor overall being less durable and resistant then Hulk, isn't exactly surprising given that Thor was floored and incaped by an attack that Hulk walked through even when the attack was more powerful.

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Either way i am not seeing what Iceman can do to Hulk here, as he really hasn't done much to Thor other than incap him for a while and teleport him, but we already know that Thor isn't as resistant to things Iceman can offer as Hulk is.

@virtuozzo: Just a few things with your post(not necessarily disagreeing with your assessment)

Thor has been turned to stone by Grey Gargoyle and remained like that for DAYS

Grey Gargoyle was OP as hell in that book, much more so then any other book I've seen him in. Traditionally, his limit for turning into stone is one hour even for normal humans

But yeah, Hulk > Thor in transmutation resistance.

On top of that if we go to even things like resistance to cold, Thor has come short in comparison to Hulk there as Hulk had to jump in an absolute zero fountain to rescue him.

Hulk's suit said "Thermals on Full" so I don't know how much that's Hulk and how much it's his suit

Thor overall being less durable and resistant then Hulk, isn't exactly surprising given that Thor was floored and incaped by an attack that Hulk walked through even when the attack was more powerful.

This was the same series where Thor was hurt by falling down trees and Hulk was pierced by arrows, I don't think it's really a fair comparison

OT: Seems like a stalemate

@aqualion0: Thank you for posting up what i missed to further the point that Iceman can and will turn Hulk into ice particles with ease.

@noone1996: Besides overpowering Thor, impaling him with one ice shard and turn him into ice and moving him else where by that you mean "Didn't do a thing" lol

Iceman stomps.

@kevd4wg:

Grey Gargoyle was OP as hell in that book, much more so then any other book I've seen him in. Traditionally, his limit for turning into stone is one hour even for normal humans

But yeah, Hulk > Thor in transmutation resistance.

Even so claiming that Thor is immune to transmutation is nonsense. I mean there are cosmic beings out there that would snap their fingers and turn Thor into a toothpick if they wanted to.

Hulk's suit said "Thermals on Full" so I don't know how much that's Hulk and how much it's his suit

Not much, considering the writer said the suit was never meant for Hulk but for Banner, even then it never covered his head. And on top of that all, his own bio book confirms him being resistant to absolute zero.

This was the same series where Thor was hurt by falling down trees and Hulk was pierced by arrows, I don't think it's really a fair comparison

Goofy writing aside, the comic is still canon and Hulk still walked through a blast that downed Thor, so i don't see why i should dismiss it because it had something stupid happen in it. I mean Beast made WWH bleed more with a kick to the face that Hercuels did with a double fisted punch, it doesn't mean i will throw away the entire even because of some silly moments.

@virtuozzo:

Even so claiming that Thor is immune to transmutation is nonsense. I mean there are cosmic beings out there that would snap their fingers and turn Thor into a toothpick if they wanted to.

Oh yeah, I was just talking about that one instance with Gargoyle

Not much, considering the writer said the suit was never meant for Hulk but for Banner, even then it never covered his head. And on top of that all, his own bio book confirms him being resistant to absolute zero.

Fair enough, Thor's a lot better with Heat then Cold

Goofy writing aside, the comic is still canon and Hulk still walked through a blast that downed Thor, so i don't see why i should dismiss it because it had something stupid happen in it. I mean Beast made WWH bleed more with a kick to the face that Hercuels did with a double fisted punch, it doesn't mean i will throw away the entire even because of some silly moments.

Yeah, but the entire comic series was like that, writing them at a very low level, very out of character, and generally treating the whole thing as a joke. As evidence I think it's pretty shaky.

@kevd4wg: Yeah, but the entire comic series was like that, writing them at a very low level, very out of character, and generally treating the whole thing as a joke. As evidence I think it's pretty shaky.

They had their low and high showings, there. It was mostly goofy but i don't see why it's unusable especially since the writer has made it clear it's canon. Danny Cates current Cosmic GR is a complete joke run but it's still part of canon as are comics like Moon Girl and Squirrel Girl. Besides it's not the only time Hulk has tanked/resisted something Thor couldn't, though it is the only instance where it happened in the same comic and same page, giving us a clear cut comparison.

It's not like current Thor/Avengers comic is any better in terms of consistency, he almost dies from poisoned water, almost dies from falling on sharp rocks, uses a special hammer to bust a bridge, but also tanks a blast from a Celestial and hits a metal ball from the bottom of the Ocean to the Sun.

I think i am noticing with a lot of writers given much less crap about continuity and logic and just write what they want, which just makes me appreciate all the more guys like Ewing who at least when it comes to the Hulk, show a lot of respect for the characters lore and power.

Early 60s Iceman? Yes. Current Iceman quite easily incapacitated him and in the same page Thing casually knocked down Phoenix Magik.

BUMP

Hulk

Hulk's skin can resist absolute zero but not his internal body. That's why he needed thermal armor to get in absolute zero fountain.

Iceman breaks Hulk down at molecular level or simply turns his body into popsicle.

Iceman wank is getting beyond stupid at this point, made up headcannon of Hulks insides needing protection from absolute zero is stated nowhere in the comics or hinted at, in fact Hulks insides have always been as durable as the rest of him, from fire having no effect

from him inhaling the contents of the Pandorax box

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which energies are measured to be 133.45 Hercs(one Herc being the maximum energy Hercules can exert in a single punch) he survives the ordeal and basically tanks the energy of 133 Hercules strongest punches on the inside.

to his organs being just as hard to cut with adamantium as the rest of his body is

The idea that Iceman would in a random encounter break Hulk down to molecules(when Hulk has resisted molecular manipulation from beings more powerful than Iceman already) or turn his body into popsicle, is nothing more than massive Iceman wank. There is nothing Iceman can do to stop Hulk.

@zillag:

Still can't get why he needed thermal armor to enter absolute zero fountain if his insides are equally resistant to cold temperatures as his skin? possessing good blunt force durability doesn't mean you can survive molecular level attacks. Hulk has never shown to resist getting partitioned and infused with water particles from high order matter manipulator like Iceman who can consistently harm people of out of his league such as : cosmic entity Stranger who himself is matter manipulator on grand scale. Notice how he painfully screams in second scan.

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Celestial AI ship Prosh. For reference , Prosh has been able to casually fly through Celestial's armor and his entire body is made out of celestial tech.

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Omega level mutant Legion. He may not have superhuman durability but bypassing his active TK shield was nearly impossible.

Powerful beings called Exterminators capable of absorbing every type of energy and threathened Celestials.

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Oh and Hulk can't do squat to Iceman considering fact that Bobby can reconstitute his body and literally exists across every single water particle. Deal with it.

@aqualion0: Still can't get why he needed thermal armor to enter absolute zero fountain if his insides are equally resistant to cold temperatures as his skin? possessing good blunt force durability doesn't mean you can survive molecular level attacks. Hulk has never shown to resist getting partitioned and infused with water particles from high order matter manipulator like Iceman who can consistently harm people of out of his league such as : cosmic entity Stranger who himself is matter manipulator on grand scale. Notice how he painfully screams in second scan.

He didn't, the whole armor thing was never even meant for Hulk, but for Banner, Waid himself explained this multiple times.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2012/11/21/indestructible-hulk-marvel-comic-book-series/1719061/

In some "Marvel NOW!" promotional images — and designs in the back of the first issue — Hulk is shown decked out in battle armor, leading some fans to wonder why an indestructible Hulk needs such a thing.

However, Waid confirms that it's not for Hulk but instead for Banner post-transformation, when he wakes up trapped under a wrecked building or buried in feet of snow in a state of undress after hulking out.

"If you're sending Bruce Banner into dangerous situations where he's going to turn into the Hulk and turn back out of the Hulk, it would be nice for him to wake up with something other than another ragged pair of purple pants for a change," says Waid, who reveals that Banner's form-fitting armor shifts into shoulder pads, arm guards and other shields when he expands to Hulk size.

https://comicbook.com/blog/2012/10/23/hulks-armor-is-not-for-hulk-its-for-banner/

As soon as Leinil F. Yu's first art started to be revealed for the Marvel NOW! launch of The Indestructible Hulk, fans started to joke, complain or at a minumum make comparisons to Superman's New 52 costume: why would someone who's "indestructible" wear armor?

The next of Marvel's Next Big Thing chats, which took place starting at 3 p.m. EST today, brought together writer Mark Waid and artist Yu to talk about the series. One of the things Mark Waid had to say?

"As for the armor-type stuff we've seen in some Hulk shots, it's not for Hulk. It's for Banner."

You literally made up a reason for why he has an armor yourself and are trying to justify it now. The most vulnerable part of a body to the extreme temperatures is actually the head itself, particularly the eyes and mouth and yet those are the things complete exposed on Hulk as he entered the fountain and he was just fine. I never said possessing good blunt force durability means he can survive molecular level attacks what i clearly said was Hulk already has resisted molecular level attacks. He doesn't have to show a resistance of getting infused with water particles that's a silly thing to even ask when all he has to show is him being resistant to matter/molecule manipulation in general. And Iceman is by no means a high matter manipulator.

I am not sure what showing me scans of Iceman harming powerful beings is suppose to achieve, especially since in some of those stories those same beings where harmed by other X-men or just don't have any durability feats to suggest they wouldn't be harmed in the first place. I mean i can find scans of almost every other Marvel character harming beings that are way out of their league all the time, pretty much every F4 member has harmed cosmic level entities at some point or another yet all of them are mid-tiers. The fact that Human Torch harmed a Celestial once doesn't mean he can vaporize the Hulk now, the same is with Iceman.

Oh and Hulk can't do squat to Iceman considering fact that Bobby can reconstitute his body and literally exists across every single water particle. Deal with it.

He most likely couldn't, other than repeatedly smashing him over and over. I am dealing with it, lol.

@zillag: 616 Iceman can freeze radiation/light on a photon and/or photoelectron level, it's proof that 616 Iceman can "freeze" and/or dampen the levels of gamma radiation that Immortal Hulk generates.

Stalemate? Can't hurt each other, Hulk can't die, Iceman pretty much can't die.

@zillag:

You literally made up a reason for why he has an armor yourself and are trying to justify it now. The most vulnerable part of a body to the extreme temperatures is actually the head itself, particularly the eyes and mouth and yet those are the things complete exposed on Hulk as he entered the fountain and he was just fine.

I was well aware armor was specifically for Banner but that doesn't disprove anything. Thermal units were at full radiant power and Hulk only hanged here for literally 1 second which logically shouldn't have been enough to completely freeze him if we take into account how much heat his body was producing. Hulk surviving in fountain whilst having his head exposed was because thermal armor was heating up entire body. BTW , Hulk himself has shown to rise his temperature with gamma radiation :

My point is Hulk alone can heat up himself to the point where ice begins to melt and adding thermal armor would've temporarily negated freezing effect. Serious Iceman will shatter Hulk into million pieces before he manages to thaw out. Also , getting briefly frozen in chunck of ice isn't same as receiving internal level freezing. Even if we ignore everything I said , guidebook pretty much summed up my claim. ''The Hulk is superhumanly durable and resistant to pain and disease. His skin can resist great heat without blistering , great cold without freezing.''It's his skin capable of resisting absolute zero not internal body which is blatantly obvious.

He doesn't have to show a resistance of getting infused with water particles that's a silly thing to even ask when all he has to show is him being resistant to matter/molecule manipulation in general. And Iceman is by no means a high matter manipulator.

Hulk's only matter manipulation resisting feat comes from Indestructible Hulk #10 wherein he tanked featless Sonic Vortex Rifle capable of rewriting molecules. SVR was so weak it couldn't even affect Hulk's armor. Other than that damned feat Hulk has never shown to resist decent type of matter/molecule manipulation. He was literally turned into stone by freaking Grey Gargoyle and only survived due to his healing factor. Unlike Gargoyle , Iceman can simultaneously disintegrate his body and transform molecules into water particles. And no , Iceman is obviously high tier matter manipulator. Is he precise enough to freeze stuff at photonic level? Check. Can Iceman disintegrate extremly durable beings ? Check. Has he ever beaten other matter manipulators? Check. Why we shouldn't treat him as high level matter manipulator? Just because AtheistKnowledge says? Nah.

I am not sure what showing me scans of Iceman harming powerful beings is suppose to achieve, especially since in some of those stories those same beings where harmed by other X-men or just don't have any durability feats to suggest they wouldn't be harmed in the first place. I mean i can find scans of almost every other Marvel character harming beings that are way out of their league all the time, pretty much every F4 member has harmed cosmic level entities at some point or another yet all of them are mid-tiers. The fact that Human Torch harmed a Celestial once doesn't mean he can vaporize the Hulk now, the same is with Iceman.

You didn't discover hot water , anyone beats anyone in Marvel. Iceman could consistently use molecular moisture conversion against Thor and freeze characters whom are same tier as Hulk. Consistently being key word here. There's nothing to suggest he won't be able to do same thing against Hulk. Fantastic Four members can harm Celestials? That's great but they aren't replicating it under 4-5 different writers like Iceman. I'm not wanking or making up anything as you stated above , Marvel usually portrays full potential Iceman as character who has enough power to play with big boys. Human Torch vaporizing Celestial happened when he had cosmic control rod while Bobby didn't need any amp other than lowering his subconscious barriers to access full extent of his powers.

He most likely couldn't, other than repeatedly smashing him over and over. I am dealing with it, lol.

Not most likely. It's virtually impossible for Hulk to hurt Iceman but Iceman can kill him.

@aqualion0: I was well aware armor was specifically for Banner but that doesn't disprove anything. Thermal units were at full radiant power and Hulk only hanged here for literally 1 second which logically shouldn't have been enough to completely freeze him if we take into account how much heat his body was producing. Hulk surviving in fountain whilst having his head exposed was because thermal armor was heating up entire body. BTW , Hulk himself has shown to rise his temperature with gamma radiation :

It disproves that Hulk needs the armor here. We don't know how long Hulk hanged in there and none of that would negate the effects of absolute zero temperature, it only needs less than a second to absolutely destroy your cells. You are literally making up headcannon as you go along, you need to not do that if you want me to take your seriously. The suit did not heat Hulks internal organs it did not heat up his entire body, you are making things as you go along now. Also i am not sure what that 50 year old scan is suppose to prove, but Hulk doesn't normally heat up his own body, that happened pretty much one time, the only other time Hulk has showcased heat is when he was going crazy with radiation.

My point is Hulk alone can heat up himself to the point where ice begins to melt and adding thermal armor would've temporarily negated freezing effect. Serious Iceman will shatter Hulk into million pieces before he manages to thaw out. Also , getting briefly frozen in chunck of ice isn't same as receiving internal level freezing. Even if we ignore everything I said , guidebook pretty much summed up my claim. ''The Hulk is superhumanly durable and resistant to pain and disease. His skin can resist great heat without blistering , great cold without freezing.''It's his skin capable of resisting absolute zero not internal body which is blatantly obvious.

It didn't negate the freezing effects on the parts of his body that were uncovered, in fact i am not convinced the suit did anything to actually aid Hulk there, seeing as Thor was inside that fountain he had no suit and he survived the freezing effects of it. And Thor isn't as resistant to these elements as Hulk. You are taking the words too literally, just because it says his skin is resistant doesn't mean the rest of his body isn't resistant to it either, in fact his insides are resistant as his outsides

from fire having no effect

from him inhaling the contents of the Pandoras box

Gallery

which energies are measured to be 133.45 Hercs(one Herc being the maximum energy Hercules can exert in a single punch) he survives the ordeal and basically tanks the energy of 133 Hercules strongest punches on the inside.

to his organs being just as hard to cut with adamantium as the rest of his body is

The idea that Iceman can freeze Hulk entirely, literally turn his molecules to ice and shatter him to million pieces is nothing short of hilarious to me and shows the delusional wank concerning Iceman.

Hulk's only matter manipulation resisting feat comes from Indestructible Hulk #10 wherein he tanked featless Sonic Vortex Rifle capable of rewriting molecules. SVR was so weak it couldn't even affect Hulk's armor. Other than that damned feat Hulk has never shown to resist decent type of matter/molecule manipulation. He was literally turned into stone by freaking Grey Gargoyle and only survived due to his healing factor. Unlike Gargoyle , Iceman can simultaneously disintegrate his body and transform molecules into water particles. And no , Iceman is obviously high tier matter manipulator. Is he precise enough to freeze stuff at photonic level? Check. Can Iceman disintegrate extremly durable beings ? Check. Has he ever beaten other matter manipulators? Check. Why we shouldn't treat him as high level matter manipulator? Just because AtheistKnowledge says? Nah.

You need to stop pretending to know something about Hulk when you know diddly. No that is not Hulks only feat of resistance to matter manipulation and that gun wasn't featless as it disintegrated a bunch of henchmen and seeing as it made Hulk scream out i am gonna say it's powerful enough to cause him serious pain. Omg.... Gargoyle never turned Hulk to stone, he turned Banner to stone as Banner transformed into GREY HULK(the weakest Hulk) he countered Gargoyles ability, Gargoyle himself notes that his abilities never failed him not even against Thor but Hulk is somehow different

Iceman can not disintegrate his body or turn his molecules into water, enough with the wank. Iceman isn't a high-tier matter manipulator. Freezing the light is a feat that made sense? Nah. Has Iceman ever disintegrated durable beings? Nah. Does beating matter manipulators mean something here? Nah. We shouldn't treat him as one because he isn't one. Yes because i said so, you are correct. I'd put Surfer WAY above someone like Iceman and i don't think he could just disintegrate Hulk or do some other crap like that, so no i ain't gonna accept Iceman doing a feat reserved for Thanos level entities or basically low-tier Skyfather level beings.

You didn't discover hot water , anyone beats anyone in Marvel. Iceman could consistently use molecular moisture conversion against Thor and freeze characters whom are same tier as Hulk. Consistently being key word here. There's nothing to suggest he won't be able to do same thing against Hulk. Fantastic Four members can harm Celestials? That's great but they aren't replicating it under 4-5 different writers like Iceman. I'm not wanking or making up anything as you stated above , Marvel usually portrays full potential Iceman as character who has enough power to play with big boys. Human Torch vaporizing Celestial happened when he had cosmic control rod while Bobby didn't need any amp other than lowering his subconscious barriers to access full extent of his powers.

Thor isn't as durable or resistant as Hulk. Freezing someone on the same tier as Hulk doesn't mean you can freeze Hulk, Hulk happens to have a lot more resistance and WAY better healing factor than 99% of the characters on his tier. I am pretty sure Thing has replicated harming cosmic entities under several different writers. Except on other times when he isn't potrayed that way and "playing with the big boys" does not mean Iceman can all of a sudden disintegrate one of the big boys like it's a casual thing for him. I didn't say vaporizing Celestial i said harming one.

Not most likely. It's virtually impossible for Hulk to hurt Iceman but Iceman can kill him.

It's actually very easy for Hulk to hurt Iceman, since it doesn't require much to smash him to pieces, putting him down and keeping him down would be the problem but Iceman 100% cannot kill the Hulk, are you even being serious right now? The current writer literally isn't sure if someone like Galactus could actually kill the current Hulk. I am not even gonna entertain the idea that someone like Iceman can, it's just laughable. For now i will be generous and leave this as a stalemate, but Iceman is not vaporizing Hulk or turning him to water, that is silly.

@zillag

It disproves that Hulk needs the armor here. We don't know how long Hulk hanged in there and none of that would negate the effects of absolute zero temperature, it only needs less than a second to absolutely destroy your cells. You are literally making up headcannon as you go along, you need to not do that if you want me to take your seriously. The suit did not heat Hulks internal organs it did not heat up his entire body, you are making things as you go along now. Also i am not sure what that 50 year old scan is suppose to prove, but Hulk doesn't normally heat up his own body, that happened pretty much one time, the only other time Hulk has showcased heat is when he was going crazy with radiation.

Wrong. Banner needs armor to survive harsh conditions after Hulking out himself. If Hulk wasn't in danger of reverting into Banner persona after entering absolute zero, thermal units wouldn't have been active. Morever , Hulk only spent single panel inside fountain which is obviously no more than 1 second. Absolute zero can't kill people instantly as Thor was frozen here for multiple pages and still survived. It's not my headcanon , you need to have basic reading comprehension for that. The suit was heating up his entire body : ''Armor thermal unit to full radiant power'' . What radiant power is it talking about? Hulk's gamma radiant energy. Yeah , 50 year old scan I posted previously says same thing. His body produces heat via gamma radiation , the suit used his radiant energy to charge thermal units therefore Hulk was warmed up throughout entire body. The problem is Iceman won't allow him to do it.

It didn't negate the freezing effects on the parts of his body that were uncovered, in fact i am not convinced the suit did anything to actually aid Hulk there, seeing as Thor was inside that fountain he had no suit and he survived the freezing effects of it. And Thor isn't as resistant to these elements as Hulk.

Yes it did. I already proved how Hulk can heat up himself with gamma energy and the suit was using his own power as fuel of thermal units. Is it really hard to get? You also get contradicted by yourself because if someone like Thor could survive absolute zero for limited time period then Hulk entering fountain for seconds shouldn't have damaged him even if the suit wasn't helping. Iceman's gonna momentarily shatter Hulk after he gets frozen.

You are taking the words too literally, just because it says his skin is resistant doesn't mean the rest of his body isn't resistant to it either, in fact his insides are resistant as his outsides

You can't get my point. I'm not saying that Hulk is completely vulnerable from insides , he's just not gonna survive deep freeze at hypothalamus or any other vital organ. Not to mention guidebook straightly says it's his skin , specifically resistant to extreme temperatures.

You need to stop pretending to know something about Hulk when you know diddly. No that is not Hulks only feat of resistance to matter manipulation and that gun wasn't featless as it disintegrated a bunch of henchmen and seeing as it made Hulk scream out i am gonna say it's powerful enough to cause him serious pain. Omg.... Gargoyle never turned Hulk to stone, he turned Banner to stone as Banner transformed into GREY HULK(the weakest Hulk) he countered Gargoyles ability, Gargoyle himself notes that his abilities never failed him not even against Thor but Hulk is somehow different

I like how you said that I don't know jack shit about Hulk but then decided to edit your post with grandiloquent words in order to demonstrate yourself as good debater. ''Hey guys, I'm intelligent strawman''. Nonethless , this sonic rifle gun was so pathetic it couldn't even affect Hulk's armor and disintegrating normal people isn't even worth mentioning. Gargoyle turned Banner into stone who later transformed into Grey Hulk and only managed to counter his transmutation with healing factor otherwise he was going to die. Also , why aren't you posting more scans of Hulk ''resisting'' matter manipulation? I'm honestly curious to see them.

Iceman can not disintegrate his body or turn his molecules into water, enough with the wank. Iceman isn't a high-tier matter manipulator. Freezing the light is a feat that made sense? Nah. Has Iceman ever disintegrated durable beings? Nah. Does beating matter manipulators mean something here? Nah. We shouldn't treat him as one because he isn't one. Yes because i said so, you are correct. I'd put Surfer WAY above someone like Iceman and i don't think he could just disintegrate Hulk or do some other crap like that, so no i ain't gonna accept Iceman doing a feat reserved for Thanos level entities or basically low-tier Skyfather level beings.

Blah blah your own headcanon blah blah blah. Freezing light not making sense for you doesn't mean it's not legit. Iceman has disintegrated Thor who is on same tier as Hulk (Inb4 you start spamming out-of-context one-shotting feats) and affected massively powerful beings. Beating other high tier matter manipulators means he's also high tier. Blah Blah your own headcanon blah blah blah. You're not accepting my scans even though I proved that Iceman doing this kind of stuff consistently happens? Concession accepted.

Thor isn't as durable or resistant as Hulk. Freezing someone on the same tier as Hulk doesn't mean you can freeze Hulk, Hulk happens to have a lot more resistance and WAY better healing factor than 99% of the characters on his tier. I am pretty sure Thing has replicated harming cosmic entities under several different writers. Except on other times when he isn't potrayed that way and "playing with the big boys" does not mean Iceman can all of a sudden disintegrate one of the big boys like it's a casual thing for him. I didn't say vaporizing Celestial i said harming one.

Iceman never froze Thor , he literally transmuted his entire body into water particles. Hulk's healing factor isn't gonna help him when even character like Deadpool (Who has better regeneration than Immortal Hulk) couldn't regenerate from disintegration. You either post scans of Thing harming cosmic entities in 5 different occasions or just stop this nonsense. Full potential Iceman damaging characters out of his league is consistent thing as I stated at least 10 times. It's not casual thing for him but apparently he can , so dealing with Hulk should be cake walk for Bobby. Very easy and simple.

It's actually very easy for Hulk to hurt Iceman, since it doesn't require much to smash him to pieces,

Shattering corporeal body = / = taking down someone. Iceman is every water particle spread across Earth. No way Hulk is tagging or hitting him besides from shattering his ice clones.

are you even being serious right now? The current writer literally isn't sure if someone like Galactus could actually kill the current Hulk. I am not even gonna entertain the idea that someone like Iceman can, it's just laughable. For now i will be generous and leave this as a stalemate, but Iceman is not vaporizing Hulk or turning him to water, that is silly.

Quoting from you after I said BRB was planet buster because writer tweeted it :

Except not really, let me explain a few things to you since your are still new and naive here. Writers say a lot of stuff on twitter and in interviews, that doesn't mean we should take much of it seriously. Dan Jurgens has famously said that Odin is only planetary in level.

Paul Jenkins has said that Sentry is a reality warper

Then he said that he is a molecule manipulator

then when he got called out on it, he basically said he was trying appease both sides, as in he was just giving people what they wanted to hear

Hell he has even said that Sentry can manipulate time

Are you beginning to catch the point i am making? If not let me give you a few more examples.

People are familiar that OF Thor was meant to fight WWH at the end of the WWH event and stalemate him, in fact Pak has famously said in an interview when asked what would happen if OF Thor fought WWH there in the end, his response was he wouldn't want to be in Thors shoes, i guess this is him IMPLYING Hulk would beat OF Thor, makes sense right.

It's a shame such interview happened about a decade ago and is now lost to time, but this one isn't.

https://www.cbr.com/pak-explores-the-humanity-of-clark-kent-in-superman-doomed/

CBR News: There is an awesome spread in "Action Comics" #33 where Superman is flying through space, smashing asteroids, which immediately made me think of the Hulk. Superman perhaps most famously defeated Hulk in "DC Versus Marvel" back in 1996, but the war over which one is stronger wages on via social media and the online comic book community. But who wins Hulk versus SuperDoom? Because one would think stripped of his humanity, SuperDoom would be a little less forgiving than Clark Kent/Kal-El --

Greg Pak: I think Hulk.

If Superman goes up against Hulk, Superman finds a way to calm Hulk down. Superman would turn the other cheek and find a way to understand the problem and reach out. Because Superman would diffuse the fight, Superman would win.

But if it's SuperDoom versus Hulk, and Superman is all doomed out and his heart is not in charge, I think the Hulk wins because the Hulk is the strongest one there is. If all you're doing is throwing brute force at the Hulk, he's just going to keep getting angrier and angrier. Honestly, we would all lose, because if those two go up against each other, the world would probably blow up.

Oh look Pak said an amped Superman would lose to Hulk, not only that but he said the world would blow up from their fight, i guess he IMPLIED Hulk is a planet buster even outside his WBH form. I guess that's case closed Hulk beats Superman, even amped version we no longer need threads on it. I mean Pak is the ultimate authority seeing as he wrote both characters.

But nah, i actually call BULLSHIT on Pak himself, regular Superman beats most versions of Hulk, let alone an amped one.

Are you perhaps catching the point i am trying to make to you here? How about 1 more example

Al isn't even sure if Galactus can kill the Hulk. Holy crap, Hulk is an abstract being.... Or, or.. maybe Al and all the other writers are talking out of their ass and all Kieron wanted was to appease someone asking him a stupid question about a comic that happened a decade ago. Maybe, just maybe.

Further engaging in an argument would be a waste of my time.

@aqualion0: Wrong. Banner needs armor to survive harsh conditions after Hulking out himself. If Hulk wasn't in danger of reverting into Banner persona after entering absolute zero, thermal units wouldn't have been active. Morever , Hulk only spent single panel inside fountain which is obviously no more than 1 second. Absolute zero can't kill people instantly as Thor was frozen here for multiple pages and still survived. It's not my headcanon , you need to have basic reading comprehension for that. The suit was heating up his entire body : ''Armor thermal unit to full radiant power'' . What radiant power is it talking about? Hulk's gamma radiant energy. Yeah , 50 year old scan I posted previously says same thing. His body produces heat via gamma radiation , the suit used his radiant energy to charge thermal units therefore Hulk was warmed up throughout entire body. The problem is Iceman won't allow him to do it.

Are you trolling now? I already explained to you and the writer himself explained to you why Banner needs the armor, the armor does not care nor can it predict when Hulk is gonna switch to Banner, it's job is to do anything to protect Banner which means it works all the time just in case Hulk randomly or for whatever other reason switches to Banner. A single panel doesn't mean he spent a single second in there. You are conflating people to Thor, the fact that Thor didn't die instantly isn't because Absolute Zero didn't have the time to freeze him it's because Thor is durable enough not to die to Absolute Zero so easily, the irony of you telling anyone about basic reading comprehension when you can't even tell Grey Hulk from Green Hulk apart. Where does it say it's heating up his entire body? No the suit has it's own radiant power it's not talking about Hulks gamma energy lol. His body hasn't produced heat in dozens of other times he has faced cold conditions, nor does it matter anyway because either way Iceman can't freeze Hulk solid.

Yes it did. I already proved how Hulk can heat up himself with gamma energy and the suit was using his own power as fuel of thermal units. Is it really hard to get? You also get contradicted by yourself because if someone like Thor could survive absolute zero for limited time period then Hulk entering fountain for seconds shouldn't have damaged him even if the suit wasn't helping. Iceman's gonna momentarily shatter Hulk after he gets frozen.

No you didn't, you literally just make up headcannon along as you go, nothing nowhere says about the suit using Hulks own gamma energy. How did i contradict myself? Hulk entering the absolute zero fountain didn't damage him, it literally did nothing to him. Iceman can't even freeze Hulk over, let alone shatter him, the wank is getting hilarious now.

You can't get my point. I'm not saying that Hulk is completely vulnerable from insides , he's just not gonna survive deep freeze at hypothalamus or any other vital organ. Not to mention guidebook straightly says it's his skin , specifically resistant to extreme temperatures.

You have no point, your point is made up headcannon. Hulk had his hypothalamus completely destroyed and every single of his organ ripped out and was perfectly fine and still not dead.

You just don't get it, there is nothing Iceman can do to Hulk to put him down.

I like how you said that I don't know jack shit about Hulk but then decided to edit your post with grandiloquent words in order to demonstrate yourself as good debater. ''Hey guys, I'm intelligent strawman''. Nonethless , this sonic rifle gun was so pathetic it couldn't even affect Hulk's armor and disintegrating normal people isn't even worth mentioning. Gargoyle turned Banner into stone who later transformed into Grey Hulk and only managed to counter his transmutation with healing factor otherwise he was going to die. Also , why aren't you posting more scans of Hulk ''resisting'' matter manipulation? I'm honestly curious to see them.

What are you exactly whining about here, me using eloquent verbiage? This is hilarious.... What did i strawman you about exactly? Point to a specific example instead of making an accusation and then not backing it up with anything. Hulks armor was about as durable as him, in pretty much every encounter no matter who Hulk faced it did just as well at tanking the attacks as Hulk did, so i am not sure how that is suppose to be an anti-feat. Yes genius when Banner turned to Grey Hulk he countered the effects of Gargoyle turning him to stone, that is somehow an anti-feat for Hulk. Sure thing friend, apart from the Thor level gun and the Gargoyle thing there is also that time Banner got turned into glass only to transform into Hulk and rewrite the process.

Resisted getting de-evolved by High Evolutionary.

He overcame the effects of the molecular condenser beams

Has survived going to a time-stream

which is suppose to do this to your body

Oh and as a bonus i will throw in Hulk resisting reality warping

But Hulk has only 1 instance of resisting molecule manipulation right?

Blah blah your own headcanon blah blah blah. Freezing light not making sense for you doesn't mean it's not legit. Iceman has disintegrated Thor who is on same tier as Hulk (Inb4 you start spamming out-of-context one-shotting feats) and affected massively powerful beings. Beating other high tier matter manipulators means he's also high tier. Blah Blah your own headcanon blah blah blah. You're not accepting my scans even though I proved that Iceman doing this kind of stuff consistently happens? Concession accepted.

Can you explain to me how it's legit? How the feat makes sense and how does one freeze the speed of light with ice? Iceman never disintegrated Thor he just moved him around and that Iceman is not in this thread and yes while Thor is around the same tier as Hulk that doesn't mean he is as resisting to things as Hulk is, clearly. Hulks body has a level of adaptability and healing that Thors body simply does not posses. You do an awful lot of whining. I accepted your scans just fine i just explained to you how those scans don't prove the point you think they prove. Other characters have affected cosmic level beings many times it still didn't make them any more than they are and showing me scans of Iceman affecting mostly featless characters as well as harming beings that in the same story where harmed by other X-men isn't really the point you think it is.

Iceman never froze Thor , he literally transmuted his entire body into water particles. Hulk's healing factor isn't gonna help him when even character like Deadpool (Who has better regeneration than Immortal Hulk) couldn't regenerate from disintegration. You either post scans of Thing harming cosmic entities in 5 different occasions or just stop this nonsense. Full potential Iceman damaging characters out of his league is consistent thing as I stated at least 10 times. It's not casual thing for him but apparently he can , so dealing with Hulk should be cake walk for Bobby. Very easy and simple.

No he didn't. That's a stupid example since Deadpool doesn't have the resistance that Hulk has. You want Thing scans?

Here he is punching back Griever together with Franklin

Here he is beating up Zarathos(yes Zarathos overtook Johny here)

Gallery

Here he is knocking around the Destroyer armor

Here he is bloodying up Thanos

Here he is punching Mephisto

Gallery

He has toppled Galactus

Gallery

He even one-shot an unaware Surfer

Gallery

Probably the silliest one is when he beat up a PR Beyonder

Gallery

I mean it's really easy showing outlier/PIS scans of characters harming beings way beyond their scope, so Iceman isn't special in that regard. No it isn't, full potential Iceman is overrated, he also isn't in this thread and he isn't doing shit to Hulk other than slowing him down and even that wont last for long as Hulk gets angrier and more resistant.

Shattering corporeal body = / = taking down someone. Iceman is every water particle spread across Earth. No way Hulk is tagging or hitting him besides from shattering his ice clones.

Yes that's why you will notice me saying earlier than Hulk can shatter his body but he probably can't put him down indefinitely, not your fault, it's an easy thing to miss when it's there in plain sight. So Hulk will shatter his body and clones all day long, that's fine by me.

Quoting from you after I said BRB was planet buster because writer tweeted it :

Further engaging in an argument would be a waste of my time.

Yea because current Hulk is immortal and while i don't believe that Galactus can't kill current Hulk(despite what Al says, i mean i will believe it once he puts it on paper) that doesn't mean i can accept Iceman killing him, it's beyond his scope of capabilities.

In that case, bye.

Iceman

Iceman

Iceman with difficulty.