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#1 Posted by NatsuDragneel41 (428 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Natsu can take out the rubber man because he can manipulate fire, which in case you don't know burns rubber, and while it's not stated in One Piece that Luffy's weakness is fire, Luffy has shown significant difficulty against fire based foes and he has even said that he could never defeat his brother, who can also control fire. While Luffy has Haki, Natsu has fought people with the same abilities as Luffy like the poison dragon slayer, and Natsu actually won that fight so I think he will have experience against opponents with precognition. It has been said by Erza that Natsu's skill and fighting power depends on the opponent he's fighting and Rogue said his power is limitless, so I don't see Luffy overpowering Natsu. Luffy's Red Hawk ability would rove useless against Natsu and even if Luffy turns his skin to steel, Natsu has been shown to be able to break steel in the past. Luffy may be fast, but Natsu has been shown to have the same kind of speed as he too is able to dodge incoming attacks like when he fought Sting and Rogue. Unlike Luffy, Natsu does not get tired so easily during fight as shown with his fight with Sting and Rogue and he is just as durable to as he was able to survive being hit through several layers of the ground and let's not forget Natsu's enhanced senses which would counter Luffy's supersonic speed ability as Natsu could smell him out. While some may argue that Luffy's moves are unpredictable, Usopp was able to predict Luffy's moves, and he was actually able to create weapons designed to take out Luffy. Natsu was able to predict Sting's moves during their fight so I would argue we could do the same with Luffy. Luffy may be extremely strong, but don't forget, in the Fairy Tail universe dragon slayers have the same powers as dragons and since it is implied that dragons are extremely strong, and it is also said that Natsu has not harnessed his true potential, I would say Natsu may be stronger than Natsu. It is not true that Natsu needs to recharge by eating fire as shown with his fight with Sting and Rogue, even without fire, Natsu became even stronger in the final fight with Sting and Rogue. Furthermore, Luffy is not a better fighter than Natsu. Luffy is not a trained masrtial artist, it just seems that way because of his agility and without his devil fruit power, Luffy has no real fighting experience, and while his boxing match with Foxy was impressive, Natsu has been fighting his whole life, even as a child, and this experience would give Natsu a massive advantage over Luffy. Now if Natsu was given Etherion and Jellal's fire, Natsu would be even more unstoppable as Natsu's speed matches Luffys with Etherion as when Wendy was exposed to Etherion, she was able to move at super sonic speeds too. Luffy's Gear Four may be the biggest threat to Natsu, but keep in mind, Natsu was one of the only people to actually defeat a dragon, and Luffy's power is nothing compaired to them. Therefore, Natsu could beat Luffy. Now prove me wrong and tell me why Luffy would win.

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#2 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

Usopp had several hours to prep the battlefield and detailed knowledge of Luffy's fighting style... Not exactly the same thing and even then he and everyone knew he didn't stand a chance of actually winning. And you won't get anywhere with some of these arguments, you want to prove Natsu can beat him which is fine but don't resort to low balling Luffy and saying weird things like 'he has no real fighting experience' that won't fly with anyone here. And saying Natsu has been fighting as a child while ignoring or being ignorant of the fact that Luffy has been doing the same thing... With the best h2h fighter in his universe at that time, his own grandfather. Ace being superior to Luffy has nothing to do with his fire powers considering he was better than him since childhood and was always the more skilled fighter.

Anyway, Luffy wins, it's pretty much universally decided on here mainly due to speed, bump an old thread or something and see why or bring up arguments and tag:

Deathhero61, Strictlyanime or Comicvinepoozer1 to know why.

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#3 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio

omg

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#4 Posted by The-Seeffiss17 (1753 posts) - - Show Bio

CaV me.

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#5 Posted by traskindustries (2521 posts) - - Show Bio

natsu via dragon force

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#6 Edited by NeonGameWave (19333 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy still wins and is still the better character.

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#7 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio

OP are you willing to listen to reason?

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#8 Posted by rickyrck (1993 posts) - - Show Bio

never watched/read neither, One piece seems to long to start and after naruto/bleach i dont think i can start a long manga anymore but yeah of the 2 which one would you recommend?

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#9 Posted by micah007123 (10836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rickyrck: One Piece is soooooo worth it once you really get into it, but that's always the problem isn't it? A challenge by itself just to do that XD. Check this out if you wanna get into it, perhaps save the series for a summer project or something like that.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2015-06-24/how-to-conquer-one-piece/.89612

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#10 Posted by Farkam (11981 posts) - - Show Bio

You're wrong. There, I proved it.

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#11 Posted by rickyrck (1993 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah007123: yeah it really is especially since after watching the 2 hst i watched very good short animes but yeah I'll take a look into that

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#12 Edited by Spidey_Jackson (6359 posts) - - Show Bio

think that Natsu can take out the rubber man because he can manipulate fire, which in case you don't know burns rubber, and while it's not stated in One Piece that Luffy's weakness is fire, Luffy has shown significant difficulty against fire based foes and he has even said that he could never defeat his brother, who can also control fire.

He could never defeat Ace because Ace was physically stronger than him. In fact, Ace didn't even have his fruit back when they used to spar as kids. So him eating the Mera Mera No Mi had no factor into the win/loss ratio. Judging by this comment and a few others you made i doubt you know much about the character or series at all.

While Luffy has Haki, Natsu has fought people with the same abilities as Luffy like the poison dragon slayer, and Natsu actually won that fight so I think he will have experience against opponents with precognition.

That's nice, but if Luffy is too fast for Natsu it doesn't really matter now does it? Which like others have said, Luffy has the advantage in that department, so Natsu isn't gonna have to worry about Luffy predicting his moves if he can barely react to the guy.

It has been said by Erza that Natsu's skill and fighting power depends on the opponent he's fighting and Rogue said his power is limitless, so I don't see Luffy overpowering Natsu. Luffy's Red Hawk ability would rove useless against Natsu and even if Luffy turns his skin to steel, Natsu has been shown to be able to break steel in the past.

I highly doubt that any person would be expected to take saying Natsu has "limitless power " seriously. That's just flatout absurd. And you may not see Natsu overpowering luffy, but the latter has much better physical feats, while with Natsu you have to rely on characters making blanket statements. Which is another fault in your argument. Also, Luffy's armament hardening is much stronger than Steel. Heck pre-time skip character were able to break, cut, dent steel.

Luffy may be fast, but Natsu has been shown to have the same kind of speed as he too is able to dodge incoming attacks like when he fought Sting and Rogue.

How does Natsu dodging incoming attacks put him on Luffy's level of speed? Pretty much anyone can do that. So c an i have some actual speed feats from Natsu that puts him on Luffy's level?

Unlike Luffy, Natsu does not get tired so easily during fight as shown with his fight with Sting and Rogue and he is just as durable to as he was able to survive being hit through several layers of the ground and let's not forget Natsu's enhanced senses which would counter Luffy's supersonic speed ability as Natsu could smell him out.

Luffy doesn't tire very easily either. He soloed thousands of soldiers at Enies Lobby then fought Blueno and Lucci while going in and out of Gear 2nd, a form that is heavily taxing on the body, multiple times. And in Alabasta despite being poisoned and losing a large portion of his blood he still managed to punch a man through several meters of bedrock. Natsu being just as durable is another BS statement, Lufffy can't even feel pain from blunt attacks. And again, it doesn't matter if Natsu can smell Luffy, if he's too slow to keep up he's gonna go down hard.

Luffy may be extremely strong, but don't forget, in the Fairy Tail universe dragon slayers have the same powers as dragons and since it is implied that dragons are extremely strong

"It is implied that dragons are extremely strong" Uh, ok? Based on what? Compared to what? This doesn't prove anything, at all. What has Natsu actually done in terms of physical and destructive feats?

Luffy is not a better fighter than Natsu. Luffy is not a trained masrtial artist, it just seems that way because of his agility and without his devil fruit power, Luffy has no real fighting experience, and while his boxing match with Foxy was impressive, Natsu has been fighting his whole life, even as a child, and this experience would give Natsu a massive advantage over Luffy.

You don't know anything. How could you say Luffy has no real fighting experience? He's gone toe to toe with Martial Artists masters and prevailed. Also, he too has been training/fighting since he was young. You cited Luffy's boxing with Foxy over his numerous other fights against actual H2H experts? What? His fight with Foxy was nothing impressive. Not at all

Beata

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#13 Posted by Jiraiya_sageofoil (2313 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by kyrees (13419 posts) - - Show Bio

OP doesn't know one piece enough

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#15 Posted by NatsuDragneel41 (428 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: I appreciate your comments, but like I said previously, Luffy's speed won't matter with Natsu's enhanced sense of smell because Natsu can just sniff Luffy out and his reflexes are on par with Luffy. You may be right about Luffy training as a child, as I feel I was a little arrogant on that front, but in terms of predicting Luffy's fighting style, it did take a long time for Natsu to predict Sting's movements, so I'm not saying Natsu will be able to predict Luffy's in the beginning of the fight, but I am certain that Natsu will predict his moves near the end of the fight.

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#16 Posted by Full123 (4506 posts) - - Show Bio

@natsudragneel41: "At the end of the fight?" Dude, Natsu won't last that long. Sniffing won't do anything when Luffy is now approaching relativistic, making him way more fast than Natsu can keep up with. Hell, Gear 2 Post Timeskip Luffy could take Natsu, and Gear 4 makes this a stomp of godly proportions. "I think he'll last that long." is not an argument when you can't procure feats.

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#17 Posted by thatguywithheadphones (19859 posts) - - Show Bio

If you wanted a CaV you could have just asked.

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#18 Edited by KingH (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

A dude named natsydragneel thinks natsu would win, super surprising imo. If someone end up doing a Cav against this dude make sure to tag me pls

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#19 Posted by newcomer (1783 posts) - - Show Bio

@natsudragneel41: Sorry to say but Natsu is way too slow. In fact the best speed feats he has put him only a little into hypersonic. Luffy is massively hypersonic+ with more raw strength too. Natsu has the skill, Dc, durability, and striking power but the speed difference is Way to great.

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#20 Posted by NatsuDragneel41 (428 posts) - - Show Bio

@spidey_jackson: Thanks for commenting, and you said you wanted some speed feats from Natsu. In his fight with Gajeel, they both took to the skies and we're both able to hit each other at super sonic speeds. Furthermore, even if you don't think Luffy couldn't beat Ace because of his fire, the rules of science obviously still apply in the One Piece universe as shown with his fight against Enero,

So it's safe to assume that fire does have some kind of effect on rubber which would explain why Luffy is frequently burned when he fights fire based opponents. Luffy may be regarded as a martial artist, but so is Natsu and I would say there durability is equal because Natsu has gone through the same stuff Luffy had gone through accept, he doesn't bleed and before you say anything about Fairy Tail being a kid based show, kugara has impaled and she bled so blood does exist in the Fairy Tail universe, but Natsus skin has never been penetrated regardless.

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#21 Posted by NatsuDragneel41 (428 posts) - - Show Bio

@full123: Here are some Natsu feats

- Only Fairy Tail member to take down a dragon during the dragon invasion, and in case you didn't notice, Dragons are OP in the Fairy Tail universe

- Natsu was able to catch Sting's white dragon punch with just his bare hands which of which was generating in humane amounts of magic

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#22 Edited by Full123 (4506 posts) - - Show Bio

@natsudragneel41:And? Luffy alone could have done all those things and more. Let's say just one feat that dwarf your entire post feats(Gear 4):

  • Luffy breaks Doffy's City++ defense and then folds the entirety of Dressrosa like a tissue paper.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

There. There you go. That's literally better than anything I've seen from Natsu.

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#23 Posted by NatsuDragneel41 (428 posts) - - Show Bio

@full123: actually no as Natsu was able to survive achologias blast that nearly destroyed and island so I think he can take Luffy gear 4

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#24 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

didn't read but i do know luffy one shots natsu

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#25 Posted by Full123 (4506 posts) - - Show Bio

@natsudragneel41: No, actually. All of them would have died without Mavis' magic blast protection ice.

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#26 Posted by Galactic_1000 (5290 posts) - - Show Bio

....

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#27 Edited by kyrees (13419 posts) - - Show Bio

@natsudragneel41 said:

actually no as Natsu was able to survive achologias blast that nearly destroyed and island so I think he can take Luffy gear 4

@full123 said:

No, actually. All of them would have died without Mavis' magic blast protection ice.

it's fairy sphere that protected tenrou island from acnologia's dragon roar.

Loading Video...

honestly if OP remembers this major stuff in fairy tail differently, i doubt he has enough chops to defend natsu against a luffy debater in a CAV here.

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#28 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees said:
@natsudragneel41 said:

actually no as Natsu was able to survive achologias blast that nearly destroyed and island so I think he can take Luffy gear 4

@full123 said:

No, actually. All of them would have died without Mavis' magic blast protection ice.

it's fairy sphere that protected tenrou island from acnologia's dragon roar.

Loading Video...

honestly if OP remember this major stuff in fairy tail differently, i doubt he has enough chops to defend natsu against a luffy debater in a CAV.

ouch a jest pistol has been launched

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#29 Posted by kyrees (13419 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawnone said:
@kyrees said:
@natsudragneel41 said:

actually no as Natsu was able to survive achologias blast that nearly destroyed and island so I think he can take Luffy gear 4

@full123 said:

No, actually. All of them would have died without Mavis' magic blast protection ice.

it's fairy sphere that protected tenrou island from acnologia's dragon roar.

Loading Video...

honestly if OP remember this major stuff in fairy tail differently, i doubt he has enough chops to defend natsu against a luffy debater in a CAV.

ouch a jest pistol has been launched

just to prove another point, here's the last time acnologia used his dragon roar

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natsu was inside that blast radius ? i don't think so.

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#30 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees said:
@dawnone said:
@kyrees said:
@natsudragneel41 said:

actually no as Natsu was able to survive achologias blast that nearly destroyed and island so I think he can take Luffy gear 4

@full123 said:

No, actually. All of them would have died without Mavis' magic blast protection ice.

it's fairy sphere that protected tenrou island from acnologia's dragon roar.

Loading Video...

honestly if OP remember this major stuff in fairy tail differently, i doubt he has enough chops to defend natsu against a luffy debater in a CAV.

ouch a jest pistol has been launched

just to prove another point, here's the last time acnologia used his dragon roar

No Caption Provided

natsu was inside that blast radius ? i don't think so.

did igneel die I don't read fairy tale anymore the nakama power and cancelation of the show didn't do it any favours

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#31 Posted by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

No seriously Luffy speed blitzes Natsu.

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#32 Posted by kyrees (13419 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawnone said:

did igneel die I don't read fairy tale anymore the nakama power and cancelation of the show didn't do it any favours

technically the dragons that appeared in that battle were already dead in a sense except for acnologia. acnologia just did enough damage to igneel to kill him first.

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#33 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343 said:

No seriously Luffy speed blitzes Natsu.

question but what buster level is luffy now last I read one piece he was town level natsu should be atleast town level also though im coming form an misinformed point of view.

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#34 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees said:
@dawnone said:

did igneel die I don't read fairy tale anymore the nakama power and cancelation of the show didn't do it any favours

technically the dragons that appeared in that battle were already dead in a sense except for acnologia. acnologia just did enough damage to igneel to kill him first.

dam so natsu lost his father and igneel was already dead sounds interesting il check it out

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#35 Posted by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Edited by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343 said:

@dawnone:

City+

Ya luffy oneshots natsu best feat up until now was making a fire dragon roar from an island that engulfed a huge ship if luffy city plus then nothing natsu has done can come close. finally on the arc with doffy so can't wait till I see gear 4. \the ceaser clown arc was terrible though

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#37 Posted by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawnone: He's only city+ in Gear 4. The feat in question is at the end of the arc.

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#38 Posted by Dygoboy (4161 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy still owns.

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#39 Posted by Heatblaze (10396 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy isn't made out of actual rubber, he has certain properties that mimic characteristics of rubber.

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#40 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy isn't made out of actual rubber, he has certain properties that mimic characteristics of rubber.

what make you say that he ate the logai gummu gummu fruit logais are exactly what fruit the eat.Also of course he's rubber he was completely immune to all of enels attacks and id on't need to tell you that rubber can't conduct electricity

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#41 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio

Natsu with the igneel amp could win if Luffy stands still.. lol

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#42 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

Natsu with the igneel amp could win if Luffy stands still.. lol

lol if luffy had his hand tied and his legs vaporized natsu may stand a chance a full power luffy would kill and eat igneel even

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#43 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio
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@dawnone: You think Luffy can tank this attack?

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#44 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

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@dawnone: You think Luffy can tank this attack?

he tanked geko moria island level punch in geko moria arc also so what he oneshotted a big guy luffy replicates that in all arcs luffy was about to destroy an island level ship what was sit called again the one in fishman island.

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#45 Posted by Heatblaze (10396 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawnone said:
@heatblaze123 said:

Luffy isn't made out of actual rubber, he has certain properties that mimic characteristics of rubber.

what make you say that he ate the logai gummu gummu fruit logais are exactly what fruit the eat.Also of course he's rubber he was completely immune to all of enels attacks and id on't need to tell you that rubber can't conduct electricity

Like I said, he has certain properties that mimic the characteristics of rubber.

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#46 Edited by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatblaze123: He is made of rubber, Devil Fruits transform the users body into any given element. Light, magma, rubber, steel, gas etc Even Luffy's organs and blood vessels are made of rubber, he's been called a rubber man and that is quite literal.

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#47 Posted by BlackLegRaph (5385 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh boy....

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#48 Posted by Heatblaze (10396 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343 said:

@heatblaze123: He is made of rubber, Devil Fruits transform the users body into any given element. Even his organs and blood vessels are made of rubber, he's been called a rubber man and that is quite literal.

So rubber can heal after getting cut and stabbed and take a very large amount of electricity without burning?

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#49 Posted by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatblaze123: The elements in One Piece are superior versions of real life ones, like Akainu's magma melting steel just by being near it, Aokiji's ice being denser than normal ice, rubber taking that amount of electricity isn't shocking.

The rubber is fused with his physiology, natural body reactions still occur without any problems.

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#50 Posted by Heatblaze (10396 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343 said:

@heatblaze123: The elements in One Piece are superior versions of real life ones, like Akainu's magma melting steel just by being near it, Aokiji's ice being denser than normal ice, rubber taking that amount of electricity isn't shocking.

The rubber is fused with his physiology, natural body reactions still occur without any problems.

Ok, fair enough.