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#1 Posted by Soratoumiga (3192 posts) - - Show Bio
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  • 616/Post-Crisis
  • Morals on/In-character
  • No prep/Random encounter
  • Battle on an indestructible planet

Gauntlet

  1. Spider-Man and Cyclops
  2. Wolverine, Daredevil and Deadpool
  3. Thing, Iron Fist and Carol Danvers
  4. Rogue and Jean Grey
  5. Iceman and Human Torch
  6. Beta Ray Bill and Hulk
  7. Thor and Quasar
  8. Wonder Woman and Sentry
  9. Nova and Spectrum
  10. Scarlet Witch and Silver Surfer
  11. Doctor Strange
  12. Clea and Odin
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#3 Posted by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by King-Ragnar (4201 posts) - - Show Bio

Bobby solos at 5. Hulk one shots both at 6.

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#5 Posted by RabumAlal (5183 posts) - - Show Bio

They should stop at 6, but Gladiator recently did well against BRB (but the fight didn’t make sense, Cosmic Rider didn’t trash anyone) and Hickman Hyperion was always a match for Hulk (before his solo). BRB has also been getting a nerf with Thor imo. 8-9/10 stop at 6, 10/10 stop at 7.

CV Iceman also beats them at 5.

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#6 Posted by Aqualion0 (2118 posts) - - Show Bio

1.) Spider-Man and Cyclops - Either solos

2.) Wolverine, Daredevil and Deadpool - Healing factor is irrelevant.

3.) Thing, Iron Fist and Carol Danvers - Gladiator already one-shotted Thing and Ms.Marvel. Adding Hyperion is overkill.

4.) Rogue and Jean Grey - Not sure. Team can only win if Jean drains psi from Kallark and then proceeds to stomp Hyperion.

5.) Iceman and Human Torch - Shi'ar warriors are cold-blooded and can't survive absolute zero. Hyperion is meh compared to Iceman even if we only take his high-ends on account.

6.) Beta Ray Bill and Hulk - Hyperion is weak link but Gladiator alone is above everyone , so it's 60/40 in favor of Team 1.

7.) Thor and Quasar - Consistent Quasar solos.

8.) Wonder Woman and Sentry - Team gets demolished.

9.) Nova and Spectrum - They should be below. Nonetheless , Gladiator nearly killed Nova with his heat vision and Spectrum ain't doing shit to them.

10.) Scarlet Witch and Silver Surfer - Can Surfer beat them alone?

11.) Doctor Strange - Assuming this is classic Strange team dies.

12.) Clea and Odin - Spite.

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#7 Edited by Toratorn (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

@aqualion0 said:

Thing, Iron Fist and Carol Danvers - Gladiator already one-shotted Thing and Ms.Marvel. Adding Hyperion is overkill.

Pictured: Gladiator one-shotting Thing.

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Oh wait, he can't even hurt him with a bullrush and a punch. Too bad that Ben gets stronger over time and thus Gladiator's feat of trashing Ben in the past doesn't mean jack in modern times, right?

Also lol at Gladiator being above Hulk or Beta Ray Bill. Or Spectrum not doing shit to them. They get stomped hard at 6, Hulk solos. But then again, they won't even pass 4, since Rogue has Wonder Man's powers and will body Gladiator and Jean can TP Hype.

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#8 Posted by Kevd4wg (12798 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably stops at 4 honestly. I don't see any reason why Jean can't put down Hyperion with TP instantly leaving it a 2v1 against Gladiator, and then I don't think he can win a battle against Rogue and Jean working together

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#9 Posted by green_skaar (12429 posts) - - Show Bio

6

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#10 Posted by Yamiyodare (1416 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 6, Definitely 7.

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#11 Posted by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio

Gladiator >>>>>>>>>>>Hulk BRB Monica that's right folks remember you heard it here first

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#12 Posted by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: does gladiator have any feats against high tier telepath like Jean either ?

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#13 Posted by green_skaar (12429 posts) - - Show Bio

Based on? Did I miss something, or this sarcastic?

Gladiator >>>>>>>>>>>Hulk BRB Monica that's right folks remember you heard it here first

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#14 Edited by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio

@soratoumiga: while everything in your order is ok and understandeble you do know that quasar is above ww right ?

With the expectation of 1 or 2

I have seen every hardcore WW fans to agree on this

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#15 Posted by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Edited by Aqualion0 (2118 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn:

Gladiator's mission was to stop uni-force and even apologized to Sue for punching at the end of issue. He was obviously holding back. Inb4 ''You pulled this argument out of your ass''.

@green_skaar

Gladiator > Savage Hulk and BRB.

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#17 Posted by Soratoumiga (3192 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: Wasn't sure where to put her since people seem to have huge disagreements on her tier.

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#18 Edited by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio

@soratoumiga: she is between high high tier to mid herald

Quasar is a high one

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#19 Posted by Soratoumiga (3192 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Edited by Evil-Incarnate (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@soratoumiga: She’d be high tier if she had a more versatile power set. She has the physicals, skills and weaponry, but imo the fact that she lacks ranged/varied attacks is what really keeps her mid tier. If she had the telepathy she used to display in the beginning of her career and it was expanded she’d be higher.

With that said I still see team WW/Sentry as a bigger threat than Quasar and Spectrum imo

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#21 Edited by Toratorn (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

@aqualion0: ah yes, he was holding back so much that he accidently got his ass kicked. "Obviously holding back". Oh yeah, of course, because we know how much he tends to hold back in situations like this.

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As in, not at all. It's funny because these situations are identical, and both had Gladiator getting his ass kicked.

Just like he was "holding back" against Wonder Man and Masterson, or how he was "holding back" against Hyperion, or how he was "holding back" against Hulk, or like he was "holding back" literally every time something didn't go his way.

You can't use "holding back" as an excuse if the character in question has as much restraint as a rabid dog.

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#22 Posted by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio

@soratoumiga: She’d be high tier if she had a more versatile power set. She has the physicals, skills and weaponry, but imo the fact that she lacks ranged/varied attacks is what really keeps her mid tier. If she had the telepathy she used to display in the beginning of her career and it was expanded she’d be higher.

With that said I still see team WW/Sentry as a bigger threat than Quasar and Spectrum imo

lets see what says about this

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#23 Posted by PaulHowder (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops 6 to 7

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#24 Edited by Aqualion0 (2118 posts) - - Show Bio
@toratorn said:

@aqualion0: ah yes, he was holding back so much that he accidently got his ass kicked. "Obviously holding back". Oh yeah, of course, because we know how much he tends to hold back in situations like this.

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As in, not at all. It's funny because these situations are identical, and both had Gladiator getting his ass kicked.

Just like he was "holding back" against Wonder Man and Masterson, or how he was "holding back" against Hyperion, or how he was "holding back" against Hulk, or like he was "holding back" literally every time something didn't go his way.

You can't use "holding back" as an excuse if the character in question has as much restraint as a rabid dog.

Gladiator was evenly matching Sue even though Uni-power is walking plot device designed to beat high-tiers. Btw it's explictly implied that Kallark was holding back as he was in rush and his purpose was to attain Uni-force. First scan doesn't refute my claim : Fighting =/= Being morals off and second one is when he was facing Phoenix which has to do nothing with my post. I don't care about other showings or what people say about it because we're only talking about this instance.

Just try to forget your hatred towards Gladiator , why would he say things like that if he was certainly bloodlusted?

''I don't wish to engage you in combat'' - Says a guy who previously trashed same team and comic even referenced it.

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''I apologize if my actions are rash , but every second counts.''- Show me any bloodlusted character apologizing how they're not careful.

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Towards the end he even cares about that he injured Sue with his punches.

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#25 Posted by Cognitive (1880 posts) - - Show Bio

Dead stop at 6.

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#26 Posted by The_Red_Devil (4966 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 6 , Glads can beat Bill or atleast stalemate , but Hulk stomps Hyperion and double teams Gladiator.

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#27 Posted by Omnipotent94 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

Could stop at 5 due to Bobby. Hard stop at 6.

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#28 Edited by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

Gladiator being above Savage Hulk is silly to me, seeing as Gladiator already lost to a weakened pre-core breach Savage Hulk in Incredible Hulk annual 1997

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This was back in the period of time where Hulk served as the nexus of the 2 flowing energies of the universes. Because of this, Hulk was literally dying due to how intrusive and powerful those energies were and his powers were seriously fluctuating from that point as it is explained in Incredible Hulk #460...

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In this issue Hulk actually dies and revives almost instantly when Banner was reincorporated into Hulk's persona, this happened many issues after Hulk and Gladiators fight, in other words, Hulk was at the very bottom of his potential. Moreover, Hulk was trashed by a giant T-Rex previously to the encounter with Gladiator, and yet Gladiator lost to this Hulk.

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And yes the dates support this conclusively.

Incredible Hulk annual 1997 came out in May of 1997 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Incredible_Hulk_Annual_Vol_1_1997

Incredible Hulk #460(when Hulk finally regained Banner and his strength) came out in January of 1998 https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Incredible_Hulk_Vol_1_460

On top of that we even have a direct comparison between Gladiator and Savage Hulk vs the same foe under the same writer when they faced an amped Annhilius

His fight with Gladiator

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His fight with Hulk

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In this fight Hulk lasted longer, did more damage and took more punishment than Gladiator to the point where even Annhilius himself acknowledges this. I have no idea how anyone can justify Gladiator being above Savage Hulk. Even if we look at Gladiators highest feats like 3-shotting a planet, tanking half a solar system explosion, etc... it all still pales in comparison to the highest one Hulk has like infinite strength, causing infinite earthquakes across infinite dimensions, tanking an explosion that was amped nigh-infinitely, etc... Obviously we shouldn't use or even consider these since they are nonsense but i am genuinely trying to figure out what the hell is the justification for Gladiator being above Hulk or BRB. Bill also has way better and consistent feats than Gladiator, Donny Cates writing a comic where Gladiator beats Bill supposedly off-panel through unknown means doesn't change this.

They stop at 6, period. Both are outmatched by either BRB or Hulk.

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#29 Edited by Aqualion0 (2118 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag:

The problem with this kind of reasoning is clear. First showing comes from same comic where Hulk somehow knew about Kallark's weakness (Did he gain telepathy?) , he needed at least 3 seconds to fly out of Earth's orbit (Gladiator has shown to fly across galaxies under 1 second) , Heat Vision was blocked with Hulk's palm while it could easily burn through his insides and same Hulk was weakened to the point where even street sign could damage him. Not to mention after their orbital re-entry entire battlefield was filled with radiation which weakens Gladiator (This happened before Hulk put him in reactor and nearly killed him). That's what we call plot induced stupidity. In Infinity Relativity Gladiator was under affection to Annihilus's fear waves which should've logically made him to self-doubt and completely diminish his confidence. At first it seems that he overcame fear but his facial expressions say otherwise. Nonetheless , Gladiator contended much worser than Hulk because Annihihulk was repeatedly pummeling and blasting him with CCR rather doing slugfest while Hulk only took 1 punch , 1 casual slash and 1 energy based attack (Yeah , I counted them.) during entire fight. Not to mention Annihilus was inexperienced with his powers before Infinity Relativity as himself stated. Using this instance as legit proof of Hulk's superiority over Kallark is unreasonable.

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#30 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

They stop at 1.

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#31 Edited by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@aqualion0: How Hulk knew about Gladiator weakness was never explained, it wasn't the best writing, but then again it doesn't matter how he knew it, he did. Maybe Banner read some files on Gladiator at some point or who the hell knows, let's say it's bad writing. Yea when he was flying across those galaxies he wasn't carrying a giant green rage monster with him. Ok this is the same faulty logic that Helion used that simply is not true. Gladiator did not EASILY burn through Hulks insides, he actually burned through Hulks skin and just had gotten to his insides but didn't burn them away, otherwise it would have killed Hulk there, in fact he burns through Hulk with his HV for 3 panels as Hulk walks slowly towards him

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and in that time he didn't manage to burn through Hulks organs to kill him. So it wasn't easy, secondly you and Helion seem to be confused if he was able to burn through Hulks skin and get to his insides in those 3 panels why didn't he burn through Hulks hand and i still don't understand how i have to explain this. But take a piece of wood or better yet a book, which burns incredibly easy, take a blow torch hold it at a normal distance and you will burn through that book fairly quickly and easily, now imagine if you turned on that blowtorch or a flame thrower and instantly shoved a book at the end of the muzzle, the book wouldn't vaporize in 1 second, what would happen is you would instantly get a feedback because the fire can't burn to the book so quickly and some of it will go to the side of the book or even back into the muzzle, there is a chance the fire would go out completely, this is simply what happened here, it's the same principle. If Hulks hand was 3 meters away from Gladiator and he used his HV he'd probably burn through Hulks hand before he put it on his face but considering Hulk put it instantly on his face at point blank range there was no time to burn through it. i am sure Hulks hand was singed and burnt but he can ignore that burn while Gladiator can't ignore the feedback to his brain. Yea because Hulks power fluctuated back then, he was hurt by some things more easier than others, he would sometimes experience literal heart attacks out of nowhere and sometimes wouldn't, the whole point of Hulk back then is he wasn't exactly stable. He kept repeating how he never felt stronger than before, but was literally dying. I also don't get where people got the idea that the whole battlefield was filled with radiation after they fell from orbit, it wasn't. Them falling through the orbit just caused a nuclear reactor to go critical, nowhere did it spill radiation to the outside.

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How on Earth is a fight where Gladiator can't beat a near dying pre-core breach Hulk something you can put a positive spin on is beyond me.

Yea except it was literally clear as day that he overcame the fear ray. In fact he went as far as to literally state to Annhilius that he will fall before Gladiator no matter what

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I am not sure where you got what from a facial expression, when Gladiator literally figures out the whole thing is a trick from Annhilius and that it wont deter him from finding him and beating his ass. So are you saying Gladiator was faking being confident there? If the fear ray worked on him like it did with everyone else(including Hulk) he would have ran away and be the most scared person in the world, his confidence would be non-existent at which point he would not be a threat to anyone(let alone a Thanos level Annhilius) and even something like this could casually knock him out

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Also Gladiator literally got floored(and possibly KO'd) from a single kick, energy blast and clawing. Hulk took 1 punch, 2 slams to the ground, 1 clawing and 2 energy blasts(go back and count them if you don't believe me) and was still not downed let alone KO'd at by any of those, even though Starlin literally ignored that Hulk has a healing factor in that run.

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And was also under fear from the fear ray so basically at the bottom of his anger during half that fight. Also what experience? What did experience have to do there? It doesn't change Annhilius damage output, not that he was anymore experienced against Gladiator then against Hulk, the only fight he had up until that point was against Hulk, against who he was bloodlusted as well for half the fight unlike with Gladiator. So what are we to infer from Annhilius words here?

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But you think this instances are unreasonable? Ok, let's try a few others, how about the time where Gladiator and Hulk fought Colossus under the same writer(Gladiators creator), lets see how that goes.

Gladiator vs Colossus

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"They stand toe to toe, neither yielding an inch, as they trade punch after punch"

"The fight is brutal a clash of modern titans"

"One an irresistible force, the other an immovable object, battling without letup"

The entire comic treats them as equal or at least near equal, they go blow for blow and neither KO's the other, it's actually the ancient building falling on them that KO's them and Gladiator just manages to recover faster than Colosuss after several minutes, in visibly bad shape.

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Ok lets see how Hulk does against a pre-core breach Savage Hulk.

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"The harder i hit him the less he seems to notice"

"None of my punches seem to have any effect"

Hulk literally 1-shots Colossus here. He catches his elbow and KO's him, the comic showed a massive difference between the 2 unlike with Gladiator and Colossus(under the same writer).

That's probably the most definitive showing of the differences between Hulk and Gladiator and how well they fared against the same opponent, under the same writer.

How about vs Heimdall? This is gonna be brief

Gladiator had a pretty lengthy and difficult fight against Heimdal on the rainbow bridge where he came out victorious but bloody in the end

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Hulk on the other hand swatted him casually

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I guess this is also pretty unfair somehow... I mean the only lucky thing in all of this is that we are comparing only Savage Hulk to Gladiator, if i got to use Immortal Hulk or WWH, this would be an embarrassment for him, considering how well either fared against the same opponent.

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#32 Edited by Toratorn (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

@aqualion0 said:

Gladiator was evenly matching Sue even though Uni-power is walking plot device designed to beat high-tiers.

He wasn't evenly matching her, she stomped him after two pages of fighting.

"I've never seen you hurting like this"

I'm not even exaggerating, that was the entirety of their fight:

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And that wasn't even a full power Uni-Power, it was repeatedly said in this series that UP was weak and needed to copy powers of Hulk and Daredevil to compensate:

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So that was basically Sue with Hulk's powers wrecking Kallark.

Btw it's explictly implied that Kallark was holding back as he was in rush and his purpose was to attain Uni-force.

The fact that he was on the clock and needed to attain UP as soon as possible (since, from what he knew, any kind of hold up could result in a huge body count) actually implies the opposite. Him pulling punches when tons of lives were at stake and he had no time to waste makes 0 sense. Especially considering he didn't give two shits about blowing the FF up in that very issue. "I'm sorry I almost blew you up. Happpens to the best of us".

First scan doesn't refute my claim

Wasn't meant to. I brought it up in comparison to a situation that was pretty much identical (except with Phoenix Force instead of Uni-Power) where Kallark was not bothering to hold back.

Fighting =/= Being morals off and second one is when he was facing Phoenix which has to do nothing with my post.

Oh, it has everything to do with it. Because it gives a good look at Gladiator's character and how handles 100% of problems coming his way. By hitting them as hard as he can.

And the situation was pretty much identical too. Gladiator's supposed allies? Check. Posessed by a superpowered entity? Check. Gladiator thinks that said entity is dangerous to untold amount of lives and needs to be taken care of as soon as possible? Check. Gladiator decides to solve the problem by throwing fists? Check. If his mindset in one situation was to "hit the problem as hard as possible", then it would be the same mindset in the other situation.

I don't care about other showings or what people say about it because we're only talking about this instance.

See, that's your problem. You want to take this issue alone and completely ignore Gladiator's character and behaviour from the rest of his career just in order to prove your shaky point. But it doesn't work that way.

Just try to forget your hatred towards Gladiator , why would he say things like that if he was certainly bloodlusted?

There's a difference between being bloodlusted and just not holding back. I wouldn't say that Gladiator is bloodlusted 24/7, but he does go around punching people with intent to kill the second they start becoming a hindrance to him, and that's a regular thing for him. He went full power against Hyperion off the bat:

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And snapped his neck too afterwards

He was about to kill Cannonball when he started annoying him:

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He was fully intent on killing Nova if the latter didn't surrender:

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He was trying to kill Wonder Man and Erik Masterson too, he tried killing Hulk, he was going full power against Colossus, he had no qualms about killing this Nova Corpsman, he tried killing Phoenix Five... What's my point? That Gladiator has no morals to speak of. This panel describes his moral outlook perfectly:

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Remember what he said to Heimdal?

The mission is all that matters for Gladiator. Everyone else can
The mission is all that matters for Gladiator. Everyone else can "burn for all he cares".

Look at this attitude.

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He doesn't give two shits about collateral damage or people dying if that's needed for him to complete his objective. In most of his appearances, he starts going all out the very second something doesn't go his way, and he clearly cares very little if anyone happens to die from his hits.

You can also remember that Gladiator currently leads a "Gamora Kill Crew", whose explicit purpose is to kill Gamora to save countless lives [from Thanos]. Gladiator's whole modus operandi can be described as "kill first, ask questions later".

''I don't wish to engage you in combat'' - Says a guy who previously trashed same team and comic even referenced it.

And then engages them anyway.

''I apologize if my actions are rash , but every second counts.''- Show me any bloodlusted character apologizing how they're not careful.

Irony of that apology is that he almost blew up Fanatstic Four a panel prior to it and didn't seem particularly bothered by that. That sounds pretty much like "Sorry I almost killed you, but I have more important things to do".

Towards the end he even cares about that he injured Sue with his punches.

Yes, because he screwed up, got his ass kicked and made himself look like an idiot. Hence him being more... linient than he was at the beginning of the issue.

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#33 Posted by Evil-Incarnate (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: Who?

To be clear she’s mid tier herald not regular mid tier i.e. The Thing.

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#34 Posted by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil-incarnate: pretty sure I said that she is mid herald

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#35 Posted by Evil-Incarnate (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: Not saying that you didn’t; I’m just stating my opinion on what she lacks from progressing to high tier. She’s closing the gap, but isn’t there yet.

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#36 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16810 posts) - - Show Bio

@aqualion0: 3.) Thing, Iron Fist and Carol Danvers - Gladiator already one-shotted Thing and Ms.Marvel.

I don't recall him ever one-shotting Thing, and the Ms Marvel instance was debunked.

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#37 Posted by Toratorn (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: Who?

To be clear she’s mid tier herald not regular mid tier i.e. The Thing.

It's funny how both of your claims are wrong.

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#38 Posted by Supermanthor (20301 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn: check post 18

And I didn't mention single thing about the thing

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#39 Posted by Evil-Incarnate (7122 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn: would you care to elaborate or am I gonna have to fill in the blanks?

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#40 Posted by Toratorn (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

@evil-incarnate: what is there to elaborate? Neither is WW a herald tier (she's a high tier), nor is Thing a mid-tier (high-tier as well).

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#41 Posted by Aqualion0 (2118 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag:

Hulk reading files on him is just baseless speculation and probably your own headcanon to somehow approve this stupid instance. He somehow figured it out after reactor was sent critical and weakened Gladiator otherwise there's no explanation. Yeah , it's certainly perfect example of bad writing and artist didn't even know that Hulk has green blood. Gladiator can fly across different galaxies under 1 second and carrying 1,400lbs (Isn't even 700kg) giant shouldn't be problem for a guy who has casual 1K+ ton strength. Let's say Hulk blocking his heat vision is explainable thing. How does it dispute that Gladiator was extremly weakened? Hulk clapped right into his ears (sonic waves are his weakness much like Superman and for starters , that's why he fears Black Bolt.) and their orbital re-entry made reactor critical. Apparently , reactor was emitting radiant energy , so we had unstable Hulk vs weakened Gladiator fight. Guess what? we can't decide who was superior based on this. Only good showing Hulk gained in this encounter occured when he tanked single blow from Kallark and sucker punched him whilst other things were complete ass-pulls to grant Banner win. As for Infinity Relativity , Gladiator overcame fear waves but his confidence wavered when Annihihulk floored and started dominating him which explains why he had worser performance. Just take look at his facial expressions. This shouldn't be hard to get. In addition , this was from same event where Starlin made him strongest member of Annihilators (with exception of Surfer) and if you really think that normal savage incarnation of Hulk is above low-herald tier characters then I'm not really gonna waste time . Hulk took single casual punch , got ragdolled (why would getting slammed into stone hurt someone as durable as him?) and withstood 1 energy blast , second one was just fear waves. And again , I irritate that Gladiator lost his confidence while Hulk was just running and then got angry enough to dare challenging Annihilus. Gladiator almost stalemating Colossus takes place during Claremont's era where Colossus was portrayed as powerhouse by silver age standarts. To prove my claim Colossus was going toe-to-toe with classic incarnation of Juggernaut and withstood his blows in UXM #104 which was written by same writer. Piotr also has shown to stun pre-core breach Hulk. Hell , World War Hulk's punches couldn't do any visible damage to him other than knocking back until they decided to engage in a close fight. In stark contrast , Gladiator has fought against Phoenix empowered Colossus and was doing fairly until Phoenix Five members helped him. All-in-all briefly struggling against Colossus in silver age was just to exaggerate dramatization of fight and shouldn't be discreditable thing. Heimdall thing is utterly exaggerated. His lightspeed blitz didn't KO Heimdall because he was holding back at first (Read his own words) and Rainbow bridge is magical as well as Heimdall's sword. I think you should get my point. Hulk doesn't have weakness against magic based things and scans show how he knocks back Heimdall away with shockwave. Compare this to Gladiator who took Heimdall head-on and literally one-shotted him in the last page you posted.

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#42 Posted by Aqualion0 (2118 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn:

I'm well aware of Gladiator's character and every single thing you posted. But all he did was to crush Ben into force field and then casually swat him away in order to get rid of him. Thing's powers weren't really increased compared to classic age and writer knew about their last encounter , so he wouldn't be dumb enough to completely ignore outcome of last fight. There's no way to measure how hard Kallark was punching unless we ask writer but one thing is clear. When Gladiator one-shotted Thing he was literally bloodlusted while in this showing he is in rush and only serious. Yeah , he goes for kill in-character but not at first blow.

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#43 Posted by Toratorn (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm well aware of Gladiator's character and every single thing you posted. But all he did was to crush Ben into force field and then casually swat him away in order to get rid of him.

Punch him away, if we're being completely honest.

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Yes, all he did was ram Ben into a forcefield and punch him.

Thing's powers weren't really increased compared to classic age

They increase all the time. It was said many times that he is continously getting stronger.

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The gap between Ben's first fight against Gladiator and this one is 23 years. He did indeed get stronger. Just during that gap he gained his spiky upgrade, then lost it, then just a year later after the Captain Universe comic showed feats superior to the ones of his upgraded spiky self. So yes, Ben did indeed get stronger.

And he continues to get stronger. It was strongly implied in new FF series that he got another upgrade, since Doom somehow managed to grossly underestimate his capabilities two times in the row despite regularly facing him and FF for many years. Which explains why he took that blast from Galactus so well and how he is going to give Immortal Hulk a good fight in July.

and writer knew about their last encounter , so he wouldn't be dumb enough to completely ignore outcome of last fight.

I wouldn't say that it's a good guarantee. Every writer remembers that Wrecking Crew are supposed to be Thor villains and still makes them job to street levelers.

There's no way to measure how hard Kallark was punching unless we ask writer but one thing is clear. When Gladiator one-shotted Thing he was literally bloodlusted while in this showing he is in rush and only serious. Yeah , he goes for kill in-character but not at first blow.

We can estimate how hard Gladiator was hitting him, since we know how quick Gladiator is to resort to force. Yes, he was in rush, he was serious, and that only makes the case worse because the FF were standing between him and his objective, and we both know how Gladiator usually treats those who happen to stand in his way. The whole point of the fight was to get through FF and secure Uni-Power. He needed to beat them as fast as possible, since he was on the clock and, from what he knew, risking untold lives. He had no leeway to intentionally pull his punches. And yet Ben just shrugged his hits off.

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#44 Edited by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@aqualion0:I literally said it's was bad writing that was never explained and i just randomly threw in some ideas and concluded that it was probably just PIS, how the hell did you infer from that, that i was presenting it as fact is beyond me, but you see what you want to see i guess. Where is the explanation or even the hint that the reactor weakened Gladiator before Hulk threw him into the reactor? The colorist you mean, the artist doesn't color his art, another person does that. Yea lets use that feat that happened 2 decades later of Gladiator flying across galaxies in under 1 second and bullrushing Heimdal and not even taking him out with said bullrush as proof that he 20 years ago he could have flown Hulk out of Earths atmosphere in less than 3 seconds. Hulk weight is not the issue here, the issue is the fact that he isn't preforming a pure travel feat, he is carrying a being that is much larger than him so it's awkward to hold onto him and a being that is stronger than him, he had to focus on holding Hulk as well as carying him into space and it's not like it took him half a minute it took him 3 seconds which is WAY better than the vast majority of Gladiator speed feats. Yea that's actually a PIS that worked against Hulk, he clapped his hears with a thunderclap he should have straight up killed Gladiator there, but he didn't he just stunned him, also how the hell is that a weakness for Gladiator in the way you are making it out to be? Lound sounds screw up Gladiator so every time there is one he is now completely weakened in his strength and durability as a result or what exactly? I am still not convinced Gladiator was weakened in that fight, until Hulk threw him into the reactor and even before that the fight was pretty much over. I love how everything else is ass pull to grant Hulk the win when the writer could have literally just had Hulk one-shot Gladiator at the start of the fight or do anything else to him and nobody could stop him from it, but he went for the choices he did because he couldn't find a way to justify Hulk beating Gladiator, is that the claim you are trying to make? There have been literal instances of street level characters beating up high-tiers and heralds and the writers didn't even add any context to it and nobody could do a thing about it, Gladiator lost to Hulk, get over it. He isn't on Hulks level, he certainly isn't on post core breach Hulks level, which is basically Indestructible Hulk who has feats better than Gladiator in every category imaginable. LOL, so every time Gladiator gets floored his confidence wavers so he never really truly loses any fight, ok so what does that make any difference here? Hulk floors him here, he loses his confidence and the fight is over? That's an integral problem with Gladiator not with his opponents. Starlin made him the strongest member of Annhiliators in what way? Because Thanos made an off-handed remark about Gladaitor being the most dangerous of the bunch? A statement? Oh man do i have to tell you a few things then about Jim Starlin, Thanos, Hulk and statements...

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https://www.cbr.com/intergalactic-titans-tussle-in-starlins-thanos-vs-hulk/

Q: How do your title characters regard each other when this story starts? Does Thanos truly understand what the Hulk is capable of? Or does he sort of look down on the character because of his intellect?

Jim Starlin: On Thanos' side I imagine it's a mix of respect and distain. He would somewhat respect Banner for being one of Earth's premier minds. But on the other hand the Hulk's lack of intellectual curiosity would quickly bore the Titan. But he'd be wary of the brute because of that infinite rage thing he has going. Banner would think of the Titan as nothing but a menace, to be defeated or escaped from.

You know how seriously i take this statements? About as seriously as the one with Gladiator. Thanos and Jim can say anything they want about Hulk or Gladiator it doesn't change the results in any way. Thanos would fodderize Hulk and he would fodderize Gladiator as quickly as Annhilius did. The one thing i can't understand is why you would ever think Gladiator is a low end herald tier character, by statements he could be galaxy level or omnipotent for all i care like Sentry has been called in some instances, his feats however paint a completely different picture. Because he is getting slammed into it by Annhilius. Characters get slammed into the ground and get hurt and even knocked out all the time, even though they are obviously way more durable than the dirt they are slammed into, but it's not something the writers really think about much. No it's not a fear wave, Annhilius released the fear wave already and Hulk hitting him back was stated to have actually interrupted his fear blasts which is why Hulk was no longer afraid, so Annhilius laid out into him with energy blasts which there were at least 2 and possibly more given Pips narration

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Gladiator maybe lost his confidence after he was already beaten and that's a big maybe so either way it wouldn't have mattered. Secondly Hulk was running scared his anger was at its bottom levels if not non-existent at that point, he was just lashing out as a scared cornered animal as Pip said and he still damaged Annhilius. What did Colossus do back then that made him a powerhouses on the level of guys like Hulk and Thor? Also how did the same writer fathom that in but also decided to change his mind when he had him fight Hulk? Also i have no clue how you got the idea that Colossus was going toe-to-toe with Juggernaut and whistood his blows. He literally got one-shot for half an issue by Juggernaut

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and then later came back and didn't even get hit by Juggernaut once until the walls collapsed on them and Juggernaut casually KO'd him while being completely unharmed himself

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In fact in the next issue Colossus tries to face Juggernaut again and is completely irrelevant and Juggernaut goes through him and the rest of the X-men like they are pinballs

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In fact in one of the previous issues, Claremont had Colossus go to go punch for punch with Grot

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a character that got KO'd by Wolverine and Nighcrawler punching him after Storm zapped him

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Later on he literally got overpowered by Eric the Red who told him to his face his strength is not enough for him

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Which is funny because Eric the Red is classified as a 25 tonner at most

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In later issues he needed help getting up after a steal beam fell on his head

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By his own admission couldn't break out of a glue like substance

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He literally went blow for blow with Magneto of all people(who wasn't even using magnetism on him at the time) and didn't KO him

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Sasquatch was mocking his best punches

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He got emberassed by Shaw and knocked out by getting tossed into a wall

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Or was getting tossed into a wall not suppose to hurt beings on Colossus level? Since you said Hulk shouldn't be bothered by being slammed into the ground?

Got casually one-shot by Doom

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He got physically fodderzied by Dracula

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He almost got choked out by S'ym if it were not for Wolverine saving him

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Blob casually stopped his blow with his hand and slapped him away

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Honestly i went through dozens of issues prior and after Colossus fight with Gladiator all under Chris Claremont and not only can i not find ANYTHING that supports Colossus being a legit powerhouse, everything i find points to the opposite, in fact let me give you Colossus himself says about himself under Claremont

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Which isn't really a surprise since Claremont didn't have that much of a high opinion on Gladiator either, since he had him get one-shot by Corsair.

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The only time Colossus stunned pre-core breach Hulk was after Hulk was weakened, dazed and confused and Colossus had to keep hitting him and spinning him around to keep him disoriented and not recover

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that's really not the argument you are looking for, especially since prior to that Colossus got one-shot and by his own admission his punches had no effect on Hulk.

Colossus being made of metal rarely if ever shows any visible damage on himself when others hit him, he has been one-shot and hasn't shown any visible damage to himself, WWH didn't show any visible damage on Beast that he hit several times before Beast went unconscious, that doesn't change the fact that once Hulk faced him 1v1 he absolutely fodderized him by snapping his arms backwards, that's good visible damage on Colossus if you ask me. He fought Phoenix powered Colossus for like 1 panel and then got stomped by PF Namor and PF Colossus until he looked like roadkill. Really? That's your excuse? The reason Colossus and Gladiator stalemated each other there for so long was because of dramatization? Wow.... that's such a bad excuse. Imagine thinking every time someone does poorly it's because "dramatization", that's really a bad argument. How does one hold back a lightspeed blitz? He hit Heimdall with lighstpeed(actually much faster than that if we take his traveling the galaxy in a blink of an eye thing seriously) and yet Heimdal was fine. Nowhere does Gladiator say he was holding back, literally nowhere, in fact he tried to kill burn Heimdall

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This is such a poor and lazy excuse that i heard from Helion and i wish to never hear again so let me tell you something obvious. If Gladiator could he would have ABSOLUTELY one-shot Heimdall there because his purpose was to kidnap Jane Foster, why on Earth would he hold back on Heimdal there who stands in his way after going for a galaxy long blitz and specifically waiting for Heimdal to blink to hit him only to not try and knock him out? That makes no sense, he wanted just to piss of Heimdall then? Blitz and hit him aside and then try to talk him down into letting him pass the gate(something Heimdal doesn't let anyone outside Asgard or without permission do) and let him kidnap Jane? Do you know how silly all this sounds? He didn't try to take him out with the first blitz but then tried to burn him into ash immediately after with HV and this makes sense to you? What does Heimdall sword and bridge being magical have to do with anything here? What does weakness against magic have to do with anything either? Gladiator has about as much weakness to magic as Hulk did back then. Yea Hulk casually slapped Heimdall away, while Gladiator couldn't and had to fight a long and tough battle until he came victorious and bloody and his clothes torn and i have no idea how you concluded that he took him out with a one-shot since we don't even see how he hits Heimdall all we see is a bloody and torn Gladiator which indicates the 2 had a long and tough fight

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Dude seriously... Think for yourself don't try and copy Helion, Gladiator is clearly not as impressive as you want him to be. Some of it is that his creator fault who didn't really establish him as a powerhouse on Hulk/Thor level, some(most) is the fault of him not really having his own series ever and usually being a guest star in random books and at best being one of the main characters in small mini-series runs. It didn't do him any good over the years and it certainly didn't put him above Savage Hulk, at least not post-core breach Savage Hulk.

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#45 Posted by EternalDarkFury (1829 posts) - - Show Bio

6.

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#46 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 6.

Online
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#47 Posted by Batvibe12 (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at 4.

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#48 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (9367 posts) - - Show Bio

7 probably.

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#49 Posted by SmoothSanta (2470 posts) - - Show Bio

Bill and Hulk stop them.

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#50 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9226 posts) - - Show Bio