At this point in the Hunger Games, Tony has a makeshift armor that also includes all the abilities of the Call of Duty Exosuit.
The armor has a bunch of decent abilities - Tony is able to punch people through thick reinforced concrete prison walls, tank being punched through those same walls, and it's also able to shoot flames and electrocute enemies.
Unless Snake Eye's has any resistance to that kinda thing, those would be easy ways for Tony to incapacitate him. In terms of a physical fight, I'm confident Tony holds the combat speed advantage based on how Extremis Tony stomped Matt in combat.
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Superior Iron Man #2
And his speed will only be increased with the exosuit on considering that it would slow his perception of time.
With Tony's armor on, I'd assume that Tony would have no issues KOing/killing Snake Eyes.
Additionally, Tony took back the gauntlet he loaned to Banner before Banner died, so he has heavy ranged artillery on his side as well - whether it be his repulsors, lasers, tank-busting wrist rockets, or even sonics.
Opening Strategy:
So Tony sees Snake Eyes running away with his bag and decides to fly after him. From what Geek said, you'll be caught off guard due to having just opened your bag when I catch up. As such, I'm gonna say that Tony just bombs you with lasers, missiles, flames, sonics, etc from 1000 ft. You'll be dead before you even figure out what you took from the bag.
I'm going to skip the formalities of introduction and cut right to the chase. My first observation is that you've clearly underestimated your opponent - and as such I'm sure the voters will see that the first opportunity to start out strong went into the can. Here's why these are weak arguments:
Armor
So, I'm not privy to the exact details of how you obtained this armor - but I can tell you that right from the start that the idea that Tony's current armor ha the same exact specifications as the Mark I armor because "Tony crafted it from nature, therefore he can craft it from nature here" is a faulty oversimplification. The matter of the fact is that the building of the Mark I required specific materials that spawned from a specific environment that enabled Tony to make the Mark I armor to the specifications that he has.
The suit's shell is made of threads of mono-crystaline iron coated with tetrafluorethene plastic, knitted together using a 3D mechanical loom.Integrated circuits called "micro-modules" were created from sheets of silicon using an e-beam writer; this circuitry, that placed 200 transistors in a square inch with wiring and associated components, could be used both as a switch and amplifier. This allowed the creation of tiny power amplifiers that could generate the amounts of electricity needed for the DC motors that provided the suit with mobility. Each small motor generated around a horsepower of power. The use of pure iron protected with tetraflurethene allowed a 200-inch per second speed. A gauntlet alone, for example, required a dozen motors.[4] The circuits of the armor are coordinated with its user's brain waves, which allow the suit to duplicate every action of the human body.
The transistors alone, for example, were essential in enabling Tony to give the suit commands via brain function.
So tell me, where are these transistors that you picked up? From what source. If you can explain from what source 200 transistors were picked up from alone, I'll be impressed. But the other 98% of the mechanics would still need some explaining.
My point is that it is an asinine idea that the Mark I armor you carry now would be, in any way, an exact duplicate. If I were host runner, I wouldn't allow this armor in a lickity-split. Of course, it's been approved, so I'll let @geekryan and the readers decide what to do with this information.
On top of that, the Mark I armor was taken back to America where it'd be continued to be upgraded, as per Iron Man #244 (read the second paragraph of this link - it served as the basis for Mark II).
This would explain its much more limited capacities - which didn't include a flamethrower or electrical feedback capabilities.
You'll also notice that the origin story says that Tony Stark required tools to create his armor, something Tony Stark doesn't have in this Hunger Games scenario.
So let's not pretend for a second that Tony Stark is as much as a threat as he would be if he did have the actual Mark I suit (and even that would fair poorly). By all accounts, Tony Stark shouldn't even have this armor in this situation. He does, and I accept that; but for obvious reasons we shouldn't pretend that this armor is going to be as efficient as any feats you could give.
ExoSuit
The ExoSuit is by far a more convincing threat. But even then, this conglomeration of technology I would think have to be very awkward, if not undoable, in function. For example, if Tony uses sonics, wouldn't the sonic reverberations just set off inside the suit of Iron Man and affect Tony more than it would Snake-Eyes? Again, without tools (or a lab), how could you expect Tony to make an effective conglomeration of technology without it failing spectacularly? There are so many gaps in this.
Again, I accept that you have these things. But my argument is that due to lack of the same resources, tools, a proper lab, and experimentation, that a) the specifications would not be the same as you'd present; and b) all of these things puts Tony far more in a handicap than in an advantage.
Combat Ability
The fact that I've seen this feat of him against Daredevil three times now as the one and only argument for Tony Stark being able to play fisticuffs with other street-levelers tells me something. It tells me that the foundation for Tony Stark having a good combat ability is about as sturdy as a stalk of bamboo in a samurai's training grounds. Putting aside the fact there is completely and utterly no consistency for Tony Stark feasibly being able to overcome an opponent of Daredevil's or Snake-Eyes' caliber, let's take a look at this feat in and of itself.
As what can be plainly and evidently seen by the audience, even though Daredevil was there to "shut him down", in no way was Daredevil looking for a fight. His body language is very nonchalant and is in no way expecting there to be a fight. As Tony was able to cure Daredevil of his blindness (and radar sense), one can only speculate that the nanotechnology was able to shield Tony's intentions. Of course, that's only speculation. The point is, however, that a) Daredevil wasn't expecting a fight, and b) he was clearly caught off guard. If you want to make an argument that Tony Stark is an enhanced being with the Extremis technology, there will be no argument from me on that point. But let's not pretend for a second that Tony Stark is Matt Murdock's combative superior all of the sudden.
And if you really don't believe me, ask yourself this: What would have happened if there was no drop? Probably something like this:
A Hulk child had to save him.
In this scenario, there is no drop to do most of the work for Tony. I don't think much of anybody buys that Daredevil, a guy who can give Captain America a run for his money, would get trounced by Extremis Tony Stark (with no armor) in a cage match. I certainly don't, but maybe that's just me.
On top of that, a critical factor that it seems you haven't considered is that Tony Stark is in the Mark I armor: a set of armor that is not particularly flexible.
And let's not forget that in this situation, Tony Stark has...
Tony Stark has received Level 2 damage, which involves moderate wounds and bleeding. He will be slightly weaker, slower, and less durable.
Which means he would be performing on a level less than what is already a level not on Snake-Eyes'.
So Tony sees Snake Eyes running away with his bag and decides to fly after him. From what Geek said, you'll be caught off guard due to having just opened your bag when I catch up. As such, I'm gonna say that Tony just bombs you with lasers, missiles, flames, sonics, etc from 1000 ft. You'll be dead before you even figure out what you took from the bag.
Okay, so this strategy fails for multiple reasons. Firstly, it was not said that we are "off guard", simply that we are occupied.
Karai and Snake-Eyes will be allowed to equip whatever item they have chosen to take from their bags, however, Hawkeye and Tony get to make the first attack move while their opponents are occupied with opening their bag and equipping their item.
That is not to say that Snake-Eyes would not be able to detect an attack made on him if one is fired. And in all honesty, with Tony's method of approach, it'd be impossible not to detect him - even for somebody who doesn't have enhanced senses like him. After all, if you're moving on jets in wide open space, jet ignition isn't exactly the most stealthy of options.
I'm going to copy/paste just why it is exactly that it is impossible to sneak up on Snake-Eyes:
As I already demonstrated, initiates [of the Arashikage Ninja Clan] train their senses to absurd degrees at their youngest.
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Scan 1: Billy, Storm Shadow's trainee, is able to dodge Storm Shadow's attack blindfolded by smelling his blade's oil, hearing SS's breathing, and feeling the air displacements made by his sword.
Scan 2: This is quite consistent in the G.I. Joe universe, as Tomo, a student under the Soft Master's tutelage, was able able to detect a stealthy footstep from Helix many yards away.
Snake-Eyes, being the best of them, obviously has this ability as well. Perhaps the most useful in this situation is the ability to sense air displacements.
Counterattacks a completely silent foe
And like Billy and Tomo, Snake-Eyes has superb hearing - to the point that he can hear heartbeats.
Kunai being thrown through the air, ones that are being tossed at with the force that Gabriel is throwing them at, is obviously going to cause noticeable air displacement and be louder than a heartbeat.
Snake-Eyes is no stranger to reacting to what would be normally inaudible projectiles from afar, behind, and with force.
As you can see, Snake-Eyes slices an arrow fired by Storm Shadow. I say with no exaggeration that in the hands of Tommy (Storm Shadow), a bow and arrow mind as well shoot with the speed and force of a bullet.
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Scan 1: Tommy shoots his arrow with so much force that the arrowhead shoots clean through a man's torso, in the same manner a bullet might. Tommy also makes it a point that arrows shoot more silently than a silencer attachment to a modern firearm.
Scan 2: The Soft Master makes note than only Storm Shadow could shoot an arrow with as much force he did. This event happened after the next scan, which showcases this:
Scan 3: Storm Shadow successfully tags a squirrel behind a concrete wall with his bow and arrow. Only Tommy could shoot with so much force than an arrow could pierce through a concrete wall (much like a bullet might).
The last part of the quote (in case it's too long to read) is especially important - it highlights that Snake-Eyes is able to react silent attacks that are virtually the speed of bullets from behind the back. Repulsor blasts and a tank missile move much slower than bullets and are much louder. And the fact that Tony is spaced 1,000 feet above gives Snake-Eyes enough time to the point where casual evasion is an understatement.
I don't know why flames and sonics are being shot from that high. It's not like they have 1,000 foot range. I'm suspecting you've become quite unmotivated in this XD.
Moreover, how on earth are you flying at 1,000 feet? It's not like the Mark I armor can fly.
Anything after this would be the Mark II, not the Mark I.
In any case, ignoring that small but important detail, I don't think 1,000 feet is really a suitable height for Tony to be effective in the slightest. I mean, without targeting computers (that the Mark I doesn't have), the implication is that Tony Stark is Deadshot:
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Read from right to left
And Tony Stark is not Deadshot.
Counter Strategy
So, given the very simplistic nature of your initial strategy, I will likewise be as simplistic as I can. Ignoring all the gaps in the strategy given, my enhanced hearing and ability to sense differences in air pressure will alert me to the incoming projectiles. I will take out my item (the lightsaber) as quickly as possible, clearing the area before the projectiles hit (no matter how far or near miss they are). I will activate my cloaking device, which will shield myself from being able to be detected. Stark doesn't have vision modes on the Mark I, meaning his eyesight from that far up will do him no good. What makes it all the more impossible for you to detect me is the fog, along with the forest life that will do me good:
Snake-Eyes is no stranger to marshes, in fact being be able to be so fast that he could speed blitz a ambushing B.A.T. by leaping over Lady Jaye before it could pull the trigger. This was done in a marsh.
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Read from left to right
In any case, Snake-Eyes will take to the cover by the trees. If Tony insists on staying in the sky (if he can), then honestly that makes my job easier. As Tony cannot see Snake-Eyes, one of two things will happen: a) he will be forced to land, in which Snake-Eyes has the advantage, or b) Tony will stay up there until the virus kills him.
It isn't apparent just yet, but during your battle against the Nemesis, you were both infected by the virus coursing through its body. You will begin to feel its effects within a few hours, but you have at least 24 hours before the virus fully consumes you both.
Yes, Snake-Eyes will wait that out if he has to. I'll be happy to expound upon that in the next post if need be.
If Tony lands, I will leave off with a couple starter feats for the viewers to consider when comparing Tony against Snake-Eyes:
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Snake-Eyes is referred as the greatest warrior in the modern age (I can provide second scan later).
Snake-Eyes defeats Starscream in three moves, a cybernetic warrior far more advanced than Tony Stark's technology in this scenario.
Snake-Eyes deflects bullets from a submachine gun.
Snake-Eyes moves his swords in blurs. Imagine this level of speed with a lightsaber in his hand.
unfortunately for you, this entire section is just completely off-base...
but I can tell you that right from the start that the idea that Tony's current armor ha the same exact specifications as the Mark I armor because "Tony crafted it from nature, therefore he can craft it from nature here" is a faulty oversimplification.
Yeah, so this is like 100% wrong - I specifically requested the materials needed to build the armor as a sponsor gift, and I used those to build the armor.
So you can complain as much as you like, I requested everything needed to build the armor I wanted (which isn't even the Mark I armor at all) and that's what Tony is packing here.
The ExoSuit is by far a more convincing threat. But even then, this conglomeration of technology I would think have to be very awkward, if not undoable, in function. For example, if Tony uses sonics, wouldn't the sonic reverberations just set off inside the suit of Iron Man and affect Tony more than it would Snake-Eyes?
a) Tony is not wearing the Exosuit inside the armor, so the sonics wouldn't be inside the armor
b) That's not how sound works anyways
Again, without tools (or a lab), how could you expect Tony to make an effective conglomeration of technology without it failing spectacularly? There are so many gaps in this.
I can expect Tony to do so because he has done it countless times in the past. For example, he built a suit from scraps at a fancy tech exhibit in like an hour with no resources or tools beyond the exhibits that were being displayed. And this was a conglomeration of random tech he found.
If you don't like Tony's feats, blame Marvel, not me.
Combat:
The fact that I've seen this feat of him against Daredevil three times now as the one and only argument for Tony Stark being able to play fisticuffs with other street-levelers tells me something. It tells me that the foundation for Tony Stark having a good combat ability is about as sturdy as a stalk of bamboo in a samurai's training grounds. Putting aside the fact there is completely and utterly no consistency for Tony Stark feasibly being able to overcome an opponent of Daredevil's or Snake-Eyes' caliber
This entire paragraph sounds like a bunch of nothing to cover up the fact that you have no counter for this feat. Do you know why Tony Stark with Extremis has only the one feat? It's because he has like 10 appearances with Extremis 3.0, and the vast majority of those are with him in a suit of armor actually, y'know, being Iron Man. You can't complain about inconsistency when there is not one anti-feat you can pull out to disprove this showing.
On the other hand, it's pretty clear in terms of writer intent that Tony Stark with Extremis is meant to be a high tier combatant - even with a much earlier version of Extremis, he was confident he'd have no issues beating Wolverine without his armor, for instance. Of course, in this tourney the healing factor isn't allowed, but the enhanced speed and strength are still fair game. This is pretty well backed up by how he gave a pissed off Cap a really good fight at the end of Civil War, with an earlier version of Extremis.
Even without Extremis, he's always been an extremely skilled fighter - he literally took out an Extremis enhancile on his own (and remember, Tony himself wasn't enhanced here):
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Iron Man: Fatal Frontier #12
It's extremely impressive how easily he took out someone who would have been much faster and stronger than him without even being tagged once. Without his enhancements, he absolutely wrecked fodder who'd be right at the speed cap of this tourney - and probably faster than Snake Eyes. Here though, you're facing Tony with a significant amp to his speed and skill via Extremis 3.0 - and this level of combat ability is only shown by how easily he curbstomped Matt.
As what can be plainly and evidently seen by the audience, even though Daredevil was there to "shut him down", in no way was Daredevil looking for a fight. His body language is very nonchalant and is in no way expecting there to be a fight.
Nice usage of cropped scans to make an argument that contradicts what actually happened in the story. Here's the full story, though:
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Avengers & X-Men: AXIS #6
Matt was clearly the aggressor and was completely prepared for Tony's attack after taking out the armor drone. However, he was quite simply outmatched by Tony's combat speed and skill. If anything, it's made explicitly clear that Tony didn't really want to hurt or fight Matt at all, while Matt on the other hand was extremely serious.
And if you really don't believe me, ask yourself this: What would have happened if there was no drop? Probably something like this:
Again, context is key. Tony and Matt were not fighting. Matt was spouting some legalese at Tony and started getting aggressive with Tony. This caused Teen Abomination (who was serving almost as Tony's ward in this storyline) to get pissed and to attack Matt, so Tony was just trying to restrain Matt (probably to make sure Matt didn't hurt Teen Abomination). Matt then proceeds to hit Tony in the face once before being punched through the window by Teen Abomination, after which Tony immediately needs to save Matt.
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Superior Iron Man #4
If you didn't consider their actual fight to be "sturdy" evidence, the fact that you need to stoop down to using this showing tells me that you already know Snake Eyes is outmatched here. Matt didn't win, or even remotely get the upper hand against Tony in this showing... he literally just tagged him one time while Tony wasn't even trying to fight him, and the fight ended with Tony saving him.
Anyways, now that we've seen that Tony with Extremis is notably better than Matt in combat, let's see how much better Matt is compared to what you've shown so far for Snake Eyes.
Snake-Eyes is referred as the greatest warrior in the modern age (I can provide second scan later).
Snake-Eyes defeats Starscream in three moves, a cybernetic warrior far more advanced than Tony Stark's technology in this scenario.
Snake-Eyes deflects bullets from a submachine gun.
Snake-Eyes moves his swords in blurs. Imagine this level of speed with a lightsaber in his hand.
Really doesn't mean much without context on how skilled other characters in that universe are.
You've provided no proof that Starscream is more advanced than the tech Tony has here - although it doesn't really matter since I doubt Starscream is as fast or skilled as Tony anyways.
Those legit look like your regular run of the mill movement lines. Tony has way better blur speed feats even without Extremis, as seen when he blitzed some goons while only using 33% of his brainpower (thee rest were used remote controlling an armor as well as hacking)
Anyways, Matt is far above Snake Eyes - he literally beat 107 highly trained Yakuza members, half of whom were heavily amped stats-wise due to taking MGH, in under 3 minutes. And this is the dude Tony absolutely curbed with Extremis.
On top of that, a critical factor that it seems you haven't considered is that Tony Stark is in the Mark I armor: a set of armor that is not particularly flexible.
You're acting like I brought up this showing, when I didn't even mention it until now. Anyways, Tony isn't wearing the Mark I armor here. It's the armor I showed in my post, so I'm not sure why you're making all these (incorrect) assumptions.
Which means he would be performing on a level less than what is already a level not on Snake-Eyes'.
I mean, it's been a while since the fight against Nemesis - I'm sure he's mostly if not completely healed from a few moderate cuts or whatever.
My Strategy:
Okay, so this strategy fails for multiple reasons. Firstly, it was not said that we are "off guard", simply that we are occupied.
Alright, so if you're occupied opening the bag that means one of two things:
a) either you stop opening the bag to dodge Tony's attack, or
b) you continue doing what you're doing and get fried.
Unless you can show me that Snake Eyes is able to open the bag while also keeping his senses sharp enough to detect an invisible enemy (invisible due to Exosuit cloaking) that can also completely silence himself (using the Exo mute ability) that can fire attacks which don't make any sound (ie. lasers).
The last part of the quote (in case it's too long to read) is especially important - it highlights that Snake-Eyes is able to react silent attacks that are virtually the speed of bullets from behind the back. Repulsor blasts and a tank missile move much slower than bullets and are much louder. And the fact that Tony is spaced 1,000 feet above gives Snake-Eyes enough time to the point where casual evasion is an understatement.
Lasers (which Tony has) are much much much faster than bullets and much more silent than any arrows. I'm not sure how you'd be able to dodge missiles with the ridiculous blast radius that Tony's have.
I don't know why flames and sonics are being shot from that high. It's not like they have 1,000 foot range. I'm suspecting you've become quite unmotivated in this XD.
smh the 1000 feet thing was just a figure of speech. I just meant that he'd attack from the air, lol
Moreover, how on earth are you flying at 1,000 feet? It's not like the Mark I armor can fly.
Again, I'm not using the Mark I armor and Geek already agreed that my armor can fly.
Your Strategy:
So, given the very simplistic nature of your initial strategy, I will likewise be as simplistic as I can. Ignoring all the gaps in the strategy given, my enhanced hearing and ability to sense differences in air pressure will alert me to the incoming projectiles. I will take out my item (the lightsaber) as quickly as possible, clearing the area before the projectiles hit (no matter how far or near miss they are).
Your enhanced hearing will be useless since Tony's movements will be muted by the exosuit. Your ability to sense differences in air pressure is useless against lasers, which are part of Tony's Iron Man gauntlet.
Tony will be firing lasers at the exact same time at which you're opening your bag - meaning that you can either dodge (if you notice my attacks) or open the bag, not both.
I will activate my cloaking device, which will shield myself from being able to be detected. Stark doesn't have vision modes on the Mark I, meaning his eyesight from that far up will do him no good. What makes it all the more impossible for you to detect me is the fog, along with the forest life that will do me good:
Since you've been nitpicking my arguments to the max, how about I do the same to you - do you have any feats to suggest Snake Eyes is smart enough to know that the cloaking device is a cloaking device, or figure out how to activate it? Do you have any feats to suggest Snake Eyes would know what a lightsaber is, be able to figure out how to activate and use it, and do all that within the few seconds it would take for Tony Stark to bombard the area and kill him?
Anyways, it's useless since the exosuit has enhanced vision through it's display as seen here. So Tony will be able to see you no matter what. And he can easily disable your tech with Tony's EMP devices.
Yes, Snake-Eyes will wait that out if he has to. I'll be happy to expound upon that in the next post if need be.
Snake Eyes doesn't know about the virus, so he won't be waiting anything out. If you run into the forest, Tony can easily just burn the whole thing down with flamethrowers and missiles, so you'll be stuck in the middle of a forest fire lol
If Tony lands, I will leave off with a couple starter feats for the viewers to consider when comparing Tony against Snake-Eyes:
Even if Tony lands, he still has missiles, lasers, repulsors, sonics, etc. So if you try and attack him he can just kill you before you get anywhere close.
Conclusion:
Snake Eyes is completely outmatched. Tony kills him, takes his tech and the cure, then goes to regroup with Team Supreme!
For the voters: Remember that this is my last post, so I'm not allowed to respond to all the new feats and arguments Fetts may bring up in his next post. So please take anything new he brings up with a grain of salt, since I'll be unable to counter it.
EDIT: I added some clarification about the armor in a new post just to show what we discussed with Geekryan so everyone knows exactly the details of the armor I have.
First of all, let me just say that there is no need to take anything so personally. As someone who's been on Comic Vine since middle school (I'm about to be a college grad), I can personally promise you that Comic Vine is no place to claim a stable source of validation. Let us love our neighbors as ourselves, and let us learn to love ourselves if we don't already. Let's talk to one another as if we were in-person, not at each other as if we the computers in front of us.
Armor
I am not complaining. But you must admit that for a tournament that was designed to be street-levelers only, giving an Iron Man suit (even if it is a suit from the MCU) seems a little beyond that. Not that street-levelers can't overcome such a caliber (as Snake-Eyes has, other MCU street-levelers have, and many of the mainstream street-levers have), but it seems a little beyond what was originally intended.
I bring up the Mark I because it is that armor's capabilities which was being argued for a month ago in the main thread in post #224. Furthermore, there is no public information as to how you obtained the armor (until now), so I have no qualms about bringing the sketchy nature of it being present to light (no offense).
You're acting like I brought up this showing, when I didn't even mention it until now. Anyways, Tony isn't wearing the Mark I armor here. It's the armor I showed in my post, so I'm not sure why you're making all these (incorrect) assumptions.
The armor that you posted about is the Mark I armor set - simply upgraded into the Mark II. We're both talking about the set of armor shown in Iron Man vs. Whiplash #3, yes?
This is a scan from your post made about a month ago arguing for the armor's flight capabilities. Notice how Tony refers to it as the "proto-armor".
And now, we'll also notice how in the first caption box in the first panel of your first scan, that Tony also refers to the suit as the "proto-suit":
Both scans make direct references to Tony's time as a prisoner making the Mark I out of scraps and limited resources.
"You were planning an escape --"
"Just like the first time."
_______________________
"... Granted my resources were a bit more... Hard to come by."
_______________________
"It's crude. Only about six minutes of battery power."
_______________________
"Problem is... I built this proto-suit strictly for prison break purposes only."
Another scan that you posted a month ago was this, which is very clearly the Mark I/Mark II. I even found "MarkI" in the name of the files:
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So yes, the armor that you have advocating for is the Mark I. And the fact that you haven't referenced this set of armor by a more specific name leads me to suspect that you didn't know it.
I can expect Tony to do so because he has done it countless times in the past. For example, he built a suit from scraps at a fancy tech exhibit in like an hour with no resources or tools beyond the exhibits that were being displayed. And this was a conglomeration of random tech he found.
If you don't like Tony's feats, blame Marvel, not me.
You might read this scan more carefully. Tony found all of these gadgets lying about in a exhibition; he didn't have to engineer any circuitry or framing, it was already built. His reference to the box of scraps in a cave is to make the point that he's engineered armor with less hardware. That doesn't negate the fact that he needed tools to build the first one. And showing a scan of Tony utilizing a smorgashbord of hardware pre-assembled in which he claims "everything only works once or twice... And only for a few seconds tops", and which features him crash landing due to this new creation's limitations, doesn't bode well for an argument saying that anything Tony can whip up something formidable with a box of fragments. At least, certainly against the likes of Snake-Eyes.
Whether you have the full set of capabilities of the Mark I or not isn't really detrimental to my victory. It's really just the frosting to the cake of my argument. But the set of armor you have been advocating for is the Mark I, so I still find your ability to maintain prolonged flight questionable.
Combat Prowess
This entire paragraph sounds like a bunch of nothing to cover up the fact that you have no counter for this feat. Do you know why Tony Stark with Extremis has only the one feat? It's because he has like 10 appearances with Extremis 3.0, and the vast majority of those are with him in a suit of armor actually, y'know, being Iron Man. You can't complain about inconsistency when there is not one anti-feat you can pull out to disprove this showing.
On the contrary, I have plenty to counter with. I'm going to skip around in this segment for the sake of progressive explanation.
Nice usage of cropped scans to make an argument that contradicts what actually happened in the story. Here's the full story, though:
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Avengers & X-Men: AXIS #6
Matt was clearly the aggressor and was completely prepared for Tony's attack after taking out the armor drone. However, he was quite simply outmatched by Tony's combat speed and skill. If anything, it's made explicitly clear that Tony didn't really want to hurt or fight Matt at all, while Matt on the other hand was extremely serious.
The reason why the scan was cropped was so that my post could have a more professional finish to it. It can be more aesthetically pleasing to use the only piece of the scan that's necessary, instead of wasting a bunch of space with the pieces that aren't necessary. Obviously, I don't bother with this every time. But to accuse me of conveying "faulty information" with the use of a cropped image from the full encounter (from Superior Iron Man #2), only to post scans from an entirely different iteration of the encounter than the one we were using (Avengers & X-Men #6)... That's a little beyond me.
You had obviously posted the entire encounter to the former in your first post, so there was no need for me to post the entire fight that the audience was already informed in.
In any case, fortunately for me, these scans give me more to work with. Like the fact that Tony needed to summon an entirely different suit of armor and 2v1 Matt Murdock in order for him to fight against him. That says a lot. It says that Tony would have had much more trouble apprehending Murdock by himself without the distraction of his armor working as its own automaton. There is no room for such a 2v1 in the scenario we find ourselves in here.
Moreover, as per the dialogue - when Tony says "Fast, right?" - it is indicative that Tony's speed is meant to be a surprise. Living in the same universe, Matt Murdock has already worked with Tony in a multitude of different showings and would have had a base understanding of his physical capabilities before. "Fast, right?" would seem to indicate that Tony's physical attributes are beyond his normal parameters, which would imply that Murdock was taken off-guard. Snake-Eyes has no such disadvantage here. There is no "trick up his sleeve" for Tony to surprise Snake-Eyes with because the two have never met. Snake-Eyes is meeting Tony with a fresh understanding, not one with any preconceived notions subverted like Matt's was.
Again, context is key. Tony and Matt were not fighting. Matt was spouting some legalese at Tony and started getting aggressive with Tony. This caused Teen Abomination (who was serving almost as Tony's ward in this storyline) to get pissed and to attack Matt, so Tony was just trying to restrain Matt (probably to make sure Matt didn't hurt Teen Abomination). Matt then proceeds to hit Tony in the face once before being punched through the window by Teen Abomination, after which Tony immediately needs to save Matt.
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Superior Iron Man #4
Context is always key. To be more specific, Matt was threatening to out Tony on the fact that he had been committing fraud and criminal provisions to the water supply, crimes of which would send him to jail for a very long time. Tony is very possessive of the Extremis virus and clingy to his ambitions; as some comic book fans may remember, Tony Stark was breaking bad in the time of Superior Iron Man.
The notion that Matt had to be restrained to prevent hurting Teen Abomination...I think you can admit that's a bit of a silly notion. Teen Abomination was compared to the Hulk by Tony Stark.
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Gamma monsters that take on advanced military platoons and artillery and other 100+ tonners are a little out of Daredevil's league. Tony didn't try to restrain Daredevil for Teen Abomination's sake, but to protect his Extremis technology and himself. He was so darkly hellbent on keeping himself out of a legal sinkhole and being exposed, he wiped Matt Murdock's memory of his findings.
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So in conclusion, not only did the multi-story fall do most of the work in defeating Murdock, but in both occasions, Tony Stark had to rely on help and the element of surprise to defeat Matt Murdock. Neither of these play to Tony Stark in this situation.
If you didn't consider their actual fight to be "sturdy" evidence, the fact that you need to stoop down to using this showing tells me that you already know Snake Eyes is outmatched here. Matt didn't win, or even remotely get the upper hand against Tony in this showing... he literally just tagged him one time while Tony wasn't even trying to fight him, and the fight ended with Tony saving him.
If you pay closer attention to the scan, Tony Stark was not at all ready in fighting position after Matt Murdock him in the face with his billy club. He's hunched over has his arm over his jaw, indicating that he took a pretty hard hit there. If Teen Abomination hadn't come, a fighter of Daredevil's caliber would have likely pressed the advantage. I stand by what I said.
On the other hand, it's pretty clear in terms of writer intent that Tony Stark with Extremis is meant to be a high tier combatant - even with a much earlier version of Extremis, he was confident he'd have no issues beating Wolverine without his armor, for instance. Of course, in this tourney the healing factor isn't allowed, but the enhanced speed and strength are still fair game.
I wouldn't say that's the clear intention at all. Tony Stark is clearly pissed; just because he thinks he can take on Logan doesn't mean that he can. A guy with a billionaire-sized ego like Tony's that's clearly taken a splinter, I would have to imagine he'd think he could beat just about anyone. Overconfidence isn't the same as confidence.
And as you said, Tony doesn't have a healing factor in this tourney, which is the only rationale he has in thinking he could take on Logan. So that renders the point rather deflated.
This is pretty well backed up by how he gave a pissed off Cap a really good fight at the end of Civil War, with an earlier version of Extremis.
This version of Extremis was also directly fused to the armor, and as can be read in your link, the armor is doing all of the work. Not the Extremis virus.
Direct Cybernetic Interface: ... He is able to manifest and control the armor through direct brain impulses and even utilize some of its powers when unsurfaced. He has direct, cyberpathic control over the communication devices, scanning equipment, and recording devices located in his helmet.
-Marvel Wiki
Moreover, the fight between Iron Man and Captain America in Civil War is a pretty popular one. It's a well-known fact among comic book fans that Iron Man had to utilize the armor's recordings of Captain America's fighting style and auto-execute a fighting style that'd counteract it. (This is something the movie Captain America: Civil War paid homage to.)
Again, this is just another example of Tony's armor doing the work. And the fact that this is the Mark 30 fighting against Captain America, a fighter who could be said to be equal to or greater to Daredevil, really represents the disparity in how Tony would perform in the Mark I.
Really doesn't mean much without context on how skilled other characters in that universe are.
That's fair. Let me reiterate from a post in a previous match-up:
Snake-Eyes is a legend of legends in the G.I. Joe universe. In a world of advanced sciences, jets, missiles, tanks, bombs, heavy machine gun artillery, and even assault rifles and cyborgs and androids, Snake-Eyes is the greatest threat to COBRA, a terrorist organization so powerful and vast in its resource that it's a worldwide threat.
Again, those four feats I provided were only meant to be a warm-up. Now we're kicking more into full gear.
You've provided no proof that Starscream is more advanced than the tech Tony has here - although it doesn't really matter since I doubt Starscream is as fast or skilled as Tony anyways.
I mean, you really don't have to go far too far with rationale. Even just a basic knowledge between the character Starscream and the Mark I armor would demonstrate Starscream's superiority. Starscream is the 28 ft. right-hand man to an intergalactic terrorist organization that wreck havoc among the cosmos - with weaponry that are the size of building floors; the Mark I armor is a 6 foot humanoid tin can made in a cave with some gizmos like a flamethrower and a taser. Take your pick.
Transformers are a race that are warrior-born in a war that's lasted many centuries. The facts that Starscream can travel through space and the description of weaponry already given alone already trump Tony's Mark I armor tech.
A fight between Snake-Eyes and Daredevil would indeed be a relatively evenly matched fight. While Matt Murdock is no slouch in deflecting bullets, Snake-Eyes deflected bullets from a submachine gun than shot several bullets in rapid succession.
Here's another instance of bullet deflecting:
This is Roadblock - one of G.I. Joe's best operatives.
The difference between reflexes in this matter is negligible. Both are capable of deflecting bullets. Though, I will say that Snake-Eyes is the better of his sword-brother/nemesis Storm Shadow, a man capable of deflecting four bullets simultaneous on more than one occasion:
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Storm Shadow's Bullet-Deflecting
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Snake-Eyes' Blade Superiority
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An Incredibly Wounded and Sedated Snake-Eyes vs. Storm Shadow with prep - feel free to skim or read through thoroughly as you desire.
This occurrence happened just shortly after an extended mission that resulted in injuries like this:
And yet, he was up and at 'em not long after this:
A testament to his willpower
Again, it's splitting hairs when sizing up an opponent like Daredevil, who I'm sure could be argued to operate on a level not too far. However, being able to hold his own against a player like Storm Shadow with the extensive injuries and sedation he had is no laughing matter.
In any case, though I may argue Snake-Eyes being marginally better than Daredevil in this field, it doesn't really matter as Tony Stark can't beat either without aid from a second ally (of above street-level tier might I add) or the element of surprise.
To better size-up Storm Shadow, by the way, Storm Shadow can:
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Dodge tracer round bullets from multiple vantage points in a wide open field with Snake-Eyes (an ~180 lb. man) slung over his back. This was before Snake-Eyes received his training, keep in mind.
Casually wipe the floor with three "tough guys" with Scarlett slung over his back.
Defeat Helix, an agent with a unique variant of precognition (she was drugged though, which helped SS to be fair). More on her later.
Casually dodge pistol rounds.
Avoid a mini-minigun's trail of bullets.
Slice a candle wick down the middle. Remember, Storm Shadow is Snake-Eyes' inferior.
Those legit look like your regular run of the mill movement lines. Tony has way better blur speed feats even without Extremis, as seen when he blitzed some goons while only using 33% of his brainpower (thee rest were used remote controlling an armor as well as hacking)
Au contraire. That's a half a dozen elite, trained COBRA operatives who couldn't so much as pull a trigger before Snake-Eyes is making a handful of swings. The art (and dialogue) evokes an incredibly fast swing speed, which is also demonstrated in an earlier occurrence of the comic arc.
These kinds of blurs are always drawn in the same atmosphere as Captain America, Wolverine, and Deathstroke - which are always made to represent superhuman speed.
If that's your only sample for your argument that Daredevil can move so much faster than Snake-Eyes, you'll be sorely disappointed.
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Snake-Eyes speed blitzes people on a regular basis.
Anyways, Matt is far above Snake Eyes - he literally beat 107 highly trained Yakuza members, half of whom were heavily amped stats-wise due to taking MGH, in under 3 minutes. And this is the dude Tony absolutely curbed with Extremis.
These aren't circumstances that Snake-Eyes is unfamiliar with. Taken from a previous post of mine:
Personally speaking, I feel as if my demonstration in the Scaling portion of Martial Arts Mastery in my last post more than adequately shows the disparity between our two characters in my favor. Aside from his ability to massacre Arashikage Ninja, however, is another "one-versus-all" feat of Snake-Eyes that would push, but not break, the limitations set in this tournament. It's a time when Snake-Eyes successfully staved off an entire platoon of Red Ninjas, B.A.T.S., and their leader Firefly (a number that probably neared fifty).
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The reason why I say this instance might push is because a sizable handful of them are armed with submachine guns. Nevertheless, while one might immediately jump to the conclusion that all could have fired at the same time, there is no instance when there too many gunmen firing at once. It's probably a kind of situation that their numbers work against them, since firing at Snake-Eyes could easily kill their fellow allies behind him. In any case, Snake-Eyes successfully staved off the entire crew of elite ninja (that are renegades of the Arashikage Clan); metallically durable android units wielding ballistic firearms; and the lead ninja Firefly himself (a world-class mercenary).
After Firefly retreated, Snake-Eyes mopped the floor with the rest off-panel. This is what happened thereafter:
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As you can see, Snake-Eyes is no stranger to numbers.
As I pointed out earlier in that debate, a single Arashikage ninja was capable of giving Helix a run for her money:
I want to be able to demonstrate the sheer magnitude of the threat level that Snake-Eyes the ninja is. Whatever your continuity, Snake-Eyes has been consistently praised to be the finest of Arashikage Clan.
What people don't understand is by how much.
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Here, Snake-Eyes enters the Temple of the Bells in the jungles of Nanzhao, a den, training ground, and staging ground for his former brethren. Just single drop of oil alerts Snake-Eyes to the entire breed of Arashikage Ninjas. I should foretell you that in the world of G.I. Joe, "cannon fodder" isn't just your average fodder in the same way as Marvel Comics might treat HAND Ninjas or DC Comics might treat the League of Assassins. In the G.I. Joe universe, nameless baddies are bad in their own right and are well-known for it.
If you've read the fight at this point, Storm Shadow describes the situation aptly. And he's not using hyperbole.
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Read from left to right - Arashikage Squad sneaks on and wipes out ISAF platoon on a bridge without a single soldier being able to fire off a shot
Snake-Eyes is not only outnumbered and ambushed, but he demolishes all of them.
Just to give you a taste of what a single Arashikage Ninja can do, this is an instance of a single one of their warriors giving Agent Helix a run for her money.
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Who is Agent Helix? Agent Helix is an Alpha-Level G.I. Joe covert operations officer with a brain chemistry known only as "Total Organic Battlefield Awareness" (or T.O.B.A. for short), which... Well... Let me allow her to describe it:
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For consistency's sake
Basically, Helix has a form of precognition; despite this, the arcane skills of a single Arashikage ninja was able to circumvent this. And not long after this very event, Snake-Eyes slaughtered a whole pack of them.
Not only that, but Snake-Eyes was so mastered, that he was able to teach his student how to overcome Helix's T.O.B.A. in just one move:
Again, this is his student (Sean Collins), not the master.
Tony Stark has some good marital arts feats, I'll give you that. Being able to take down an Extremis soldier and get in a single punch on Captain America are some solid ones. These by themselves though, even with the enhancements, are not enough to stop an opponent on the level of Snake-Eyes. Everything Tony Stark can do with martial arts is based off training or observation of other high-tier martial artists, to which he implies are the real experts (which is true). Meanwhile, Snake-Eyes is one of these experts. Daredevil is the only expert that Tony Stark has faced without armor that he was able to overcome in some manner or another. And even if I were to hypothetically give you that Stark beat Daredevil all on his lonesome with no surprise element or aid whatsoever, the matter of the fact is that with only 10 feats that are kind of quality, you have can't overcome the sheer onslaught of quantity and quality feats that Snake-Eyes has under his belt.
I have 431 scans in my Snake-Eyes folder. I haven't even used a fourth of those scans. Tony doesn't hold a candle against the kind of prowess that Snake-Eyes has.
Strategy - Counter
Alright, so if you're occupied opening the bag that means one of two things:
a) either you stop opening the bag to dodge Tony's attack, or
b) you continue doing what you're doing and get fried.
Unless you can show me that Snake Eyes is able to open the bag while also keeping his senses sharp enough to detect an invisible enemy (invisible due to Exosuit cloaking) that can also completely silence himself (using the Exo mute ability) that can fire attacks which don't make any sound (ie. lasers).
As I said before, I would receive my item from the bag before the projectiles even hit. Going up against projectiles slower than bullets, having fast hand-speed, and the ability to multi-task makes it a very easy task. If I had to I could ninja flip and grab the item out of the bag to avoid it.
Snake-Eyes once made a landing with a .000018 chance of success.
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Another time, he saved both Storm Shadow and Billy with a crazy bungee cord stunt that saved all three of them before an unlawful amount of helicopter and building debris could catch them.
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Snake-Eyes can manage.
In regards to your cloaking device, your link very specifically says that it has a 12 second limit. Meanwhile, I have the Predator's cloaking device, which does not have such limitations.
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As for your mute ability, it likewise has a time limit. Nor is there any proof that it'd completely mute the kind of loud sounds that the Iron Man suit would make. And as far as I'm concerned, Tony doesn't have any sort of extrasensory abilities that'd enable him to spot Snake-Eyes through his cloaking device.
Snake-Eyes extrasensory abilities are passive, not active. They're second-nature to him.
Lasers (which Tony has) are much much much faster than bullets and much more silent than any arrows. I'm not sure how you'd be able to dodge missiles with the ridiculous blast radius that Tony's have.
Repulsor blasts, by virtue of being a concussive force, must split the air apart. Only the kinds of lasers that kittens chase or are used as attachments for military rifles would be pure plasma that wouldn't split air apart on a more macro level. If it has force, it's splitting air apart. So yes, to answer the previous claim, Snake-Eyes would sense it.
And that's not at all a ridiculous blast radius. Certainly not one Snake-Eyes is capable of avoiding, as I showed previously.
I'll leave to Geek the specifics of flight in this matter. Even if it's not 1,000 feet, those kind of details matter. Tony could be far enough to make Snake-Eyes evasion casual or close enough for Snake-Eyes to still evade and hack Tony in a leap.
Your enhanced hearing will be useless since Tony's movements will be muted by the exosuit. Your ability to sense differences in air pressure is useless against lasers, which are part of Tony's Iron Man gauntlet.
Tony will be firing lasers at the exact same time at which you're opening your bag - meaning that you can either dodge (if you notice my attacks) or open the bag, not both.
As I pointed out before, Snake-Eyes is capable of complex calculations and actions in mid-air, so yes he can multitask.
Another example
If you really are using jets, I don't think you'd be able to find any viable proof that the EXO Suit could silence them. Your link refers to player movements (footsteps).
Since you've been nitpicking my arguments to the max, how about I do the same to you - do you have any feats to suggest Snake Eyes is smart enough to know that the cloaking device is a cloaking device, or figure out how to activate it? Do you have any feats to suggest Snake Eyes would know what a lightsaber is, be able to figure out how to activate and use it, and do all that within the few seconds it would take for Tony Stark to bombard the area and kill him?
Anyways, it's useless since the exosuit has enhanced vision through it's display as seen here. So Tony will be able to see you no matter what. And he can easily disable your tech with Tony's EMP devices.
At this point of the battle, I've used my cloaking device the same as every other constant used their special weapons even if it's not native to their universe. I made some roleplaying with no contest.
Maybe you will have flight and maybe I'm wrong about that. As per the post #224 of the main thread however, not all the info was given. Like I said before, I accept that you have the suit and that you have some of these capabilities. I'll leave it to @geekryan as to what extent you have them. Though, I doubt you'll have infinite flight. Fuel burns out eventually too.
As for the vision mode, the commentator specifically makes it a point that these "pings" only happen if someone else is firing a fun or is using EXO Suit abilities. I have neither EXO Suit or a gun, so my cloaking device will keep me safe.
As for the EMP device, a thrown projectile like that is very slow in comparison to bullets.
As for the lightsaber, our characters seem to have pretty innate understandings on how to use these kinds of weaponry that are again foreign to our universes. I don't really see too much conflict here. But even if I couldn't kill you with a lightsaber, Snake-Eyes has options. He can use the Arashikage Death Touch (capable of affecting its victim through solid beryllium steel), chop the armor off of you with his hands (possibly the head as well), or shove his sword through the eye slits.
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Snake Eyes doesn't know about the virus, so he won't be waiting anything out. If you run into the forest, Tony can easily just burn the whole thing down with flamethrowers and missiles, so you'll be stuck in the middle of a forest fire lol
Oh, you're correct about that. But Snake-Eyes isn't going to attack you in the open if you have a flight advantage. The virus is a more of a convenience.
As I pointed out recently, the vision mode of the EXO Suit is insufficient since Snake-Eyes has none of the prerequisites required to be tagged it. And I wouldn't be necessarily stuck either; he is an evasion master.
Even if Tony lands, he still has missiles, lasers, repulsors, sonics, etc. So if you try and attack him he can just kill you before you get anywhere close.
Again, I have superior skill, speed, and a cloaking device. Tony wouldn't be able to see me. Not even detect footprints.
Conclusion
The Iron Man Mark I armor is going to have to land eventually. Whether it burns out by fuel, whether it's because of its own limitations, or both. The longer Tony has to wait, the more his body will burn out from the virus. Tony doesn't have unlimited ammo either - as per the scan in which he and Pepper rediscover the Mark I armor during the prison break, it has a limited ability to fuel itself with energy. He doesn't have the ability to get a bead on Snake-Eyes with the Predator's cloaking device active. And Snake-Eyes has far too much speed, agility, and stamina to be tagged effectively. Snake-Eyes is too much of a multi-functional, alpha-dog-tiered ninja master to succumb to such devices. One way or another, Tony Stark will have to land. And when he does, for the reasons of his physicality, technology, and martial skill presented, Tony Stark will go down.
Alright so Geekryan allowed me to post some stuff to clarify this whole armor thing. First of all, as I said before, the armor I'm using is not the Mark I armor - it's an armor that Tony made to escape prison using the scraps he could find there. That's why all the armor feats I've been using have come from that specific story arc only. You can argue it's based off of the Mark I armor, but it's not the same - so arguments that Tony can't use a flamethrower since the Mark I armor doesn't have a flamethrower don't hold weight since the armor he is using does explicitly have a flamethrower. Fetts calls it the Mark II armor in his second post, but that's not true either. It's literally an unnamed random suit of armor with 2 appearances that Tony put together that one time. The reason I posted some scans of the Mark I armor was because I was trying to convince Geekryan that the prison armor has flight capabilities because the armor's sole purpose was to allow Tony to fly out of prison (which he didn't end up needing to do since Pepper came to rescue him). Since the prison armor never actually flew, I brought up the fact that it is based off of the Mark I armor which can fly and has feats of doing so. But saying that the armor Tony is using doesn't have gear that it explicitly does have on panel would be incorrect. As for the power issues thing, we discussed that with Geekryan as well and he said it wouldn't be an issue that Tony and Banner could combine the Iron man suit with the exosuit and gauntlet which would also have the side effect of removing any power management issues.
The discord screenshots are below in case anyone needs proof that we ran all this through Geekryan and got his approval for all of it.
Both sides of this debate were a little wonky. As a reader, it's frustrating to me that so much of the debate ends up being based on what gear the characters do or do not have, or what version of the character it is, etc. I don't blame this one just one or the other debater, it should just be stated up front in the OP. And that includes, beyond just what armor this is, even just listing off character version stuff like this is Tony with Extremis 3 and that the armor seemingly combines both MCU and comics feats? It would make it easier for the reader to have that stuff in the OP.
To be clear, I think both Fetts and blackspidey2099 are excellent debaters and I always enjoy their work, but in this particular debate the whole thing sort of collapsed for me.
It does seem to me that the total amount of gear Iron Man has here is way above street level, and when you add in his first strike capability, that's a pretty huge hill for anyone to climb.
I ended up feeling like I had to do my own research on the Mark 1, which I know is not the armor here but was used for comparison sakes. It did have a limited capacity to fly. I don't get the impression that this is "fly around forever and keep spamming attacks" capacity though.
However, I was not fully persuaded that the armor Tony built in the prison, which is what he has here, and which I agree is not the Mark 1, could fly. Reading the original comic it was in, there was nothing there that made me think it could fly, especially since he takes off in a helicopter. Again, I'm doing this reading on my own; arguably Fetts could have presented that, but I feel like the whole thing was too much he said/she said and I couldn't get anywhere without reading it myself.
A lot of this debate seems to come down to three things: could Snake Eyes hear the armor/laser blast? Is Tony so fast that Snake Eyes wouldn't be able to react to him? Could Tony sense Snake Eyes if he goes stealth?
When it comes to whether Snake Eyes could hear Tony coming, I think the answer is yes. Fetts' observation that the Exo suit's cloak and silencer only last around 10-20 seconds was pretty key. And I do think that any weapon Tony uses other than the laser would affect the air pressure, and Snake Eyes could feel it. The laser is the one that might not, but honestly it doesn't seem very in character to me that he would use that as his first choice of weapon, given that he doesn't know Snake Eyes has such great senses.
Is Tony so fast that Snake Eyes can't react to him? This in turn seems to mostly focus on the Daredevil scene. I tend to split the difference between the debaters' two interpretations. I think DD was expecting a confrontation/fight, but I also think he didn't expect Tony to be so fast in comparison to his normal interactions with Tony, and was caught off guard. Even if he was, Snake could react quickly with a lightsaber stab, I don't see this as a checkmate move on Iron Man's part. My overall take is that there is a chance Tony is as fast as Snake, but Snake is clearly way more skilled and should be able to deal with being grabbed. I do agree with blackspidey that those swoosh lines in that comic in the first post do not seem like shockingly fast moves to me. But Snake has plenty of other fast moves as Fetts showed later. Fetts had a good point about the Tony/Cap fight in Civil War, and how Cap was keeping up with him fairly well despite fighting a more advanced suit. So Snake Eyes should be able to do the same.
Could Tony sense Snakes? Those sensory feats of Tony's at the end of his post 2 were pretty darned good. Snake Eyes is a master of stealth, but I think that Tony may actually be able to keep pretty good track of him--except for the fact that Snakes has a cloak of his own. I think between Snake's natural stealth, and the cloak, Snake Eyes may actually be able to evade.
To be honest, I started writing this post under the assumption that Iron Man would win, but at this point I think I am coming down on Snake Eye's side. Fetts convinced me of enough of Snake's skill, for instance against Helix, that he could roll with anything that Tony tries to do. With a lightsaber, he can clearly damage him. So my general sense of what could actually happen here is that Tony could fly over and attack, and probably Snake Eyes could avoid it. Then Tony might spam attacks for a while, but Snakes could probably dodge most of that. And once Tony had to land, Snake Eyes would win. My vote goes to Fetts for convincing me of what I didn't think was possible, given my sense that Iron Man's armor was probably too much for this tourney. Which I guess means it wasn't too much for this tourney.
Yes, I realize the debate could get wonky at times XD I realize there are times I could have done better and I realized after the fact that I probably should have put a list of my gear down. As always, very thorough and thoughtful review Owie. Thank you for your time!
It has been 3 days since voting was opened and we only received one vote...
As most of you were participants in this Hunger Games, or involved in some way or another, it would be greatly if you could take the time to read through this match, the other, or both, and drop a quick vote. We can't see this to the end if we don't get votes. Each match is only 4 posts too, not the usual 6.
Although some areas of equipment were a bit shady (I haven’t read anything else to do with this tourney), I think fetts did a better job of covering all possible outcomes when it came to what the armours capabilities were or were not, and overall his arguments were a bit more thorough.
Blackspidey’s arguments for Iron mans first attack being undetectable were not convincing and overall he seemed a bit too over confident with his battle plan.
From the arguments presented by both sides I can see Snake Eyes avoiding the initial attacks long enough to force a ground fight, in which he wins convincingly with a lightsabre.
I think even I could work out how to use one (you just push a button right? lol)
I vote for fetts. But not sure my vote means much considering I have not read any other part of this tournament.
I don’t often post round here, but I remember a while back I said I would vote in a tourney but never did. These things need votes so hope this makes up for it.
Alright, just went through the debate. Well done, both the participants. Although, like owie said, this could've been better.
Coming to my vote, I'm voting Fetts for this one. Regarding the condition of Snake-Eyes after the fight, I don't think he'd have major injuries to be frank.
I felt more focus could've been given to the virus affecting Stark than what was debated, but whatever.
Coming to the first portion of debate, since both of you agreed to the plan of how this would start, it would mainly boil down to whether Snake-eyes could detect Stark's surprise attack. I felt the showings given as counter were good enough to suggest Snake-eyes should find out what is happening based on detecting changes through air. So, I could see Snake-eyes dodge the initial ambush more often. Which brings us to....
....Aerial attacks from Stark. Fetts pointing out the time limit and his speed showings give him the means to ensure he could be safe from EMP devices. Even then, I could see Tony detecting Snake while in stealth mode, the reason why I believe Snake could survive this phase are those speed showings shown later. Eventually, as stated, Tony would likely run out of fuel and has to land which is when I see Snake eyes taking an upper hand. Lightsaber clearly gives Snake eyes a means to beat Tony.
@geekryan: @blackspidey2099: @fetts: So good debate but will give it to Fetts in the end though. When this was started I didn't expect someone to come in with a whole iron man suit but here we are. There was a bit of debate on the suits capabilities but really at the end of day that comes down to what the host allowed. Fetts still had an uphill to climb but that was helped by the level 2 damage Tony had coming into the fight.
Snake Eyes's speed and senses came in handy here. And that was the major crux of this debate. If Snake Eyes could survive the onslaught to get close enough to kill Tony. I was convinced he wouldnt be caught off guard and would be able to sense his opponent coming especially given the time limit on the cloaking used. Laser seemed to be the only thing that Snake Eyes wouldn't be able to sense with air pressure shifts but at that point he would atleast be aware of his opponents location and could dodge from there. He has good amount of speed feats and it wasn't shown if any of Tony's weapons were quicker than what Snake Eyes can dodge. Plus the cloaking device to make it harder At some point Tony would then land whether because the flight can no longer be sustained or the long range attacks keep failing.
He certainly seemed to have the speed and BS probably would have been better proving the speed of his suit as to Tony's own speed which is good but doesn't seem better than Snake Eyes. And damage he has in this fight would only serve to widen the speed gap between them as the suit doesn't seem to compensate for it. The lightsaber of course ensures Snake Eyes actually has a way of harming Tony and ending this fight once it reaches ground.
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