Hulk vs. Supergirl

@intothevoid:

Not necessarily, the same way the writer thinks how the character acts in their books is no different than us thinking how he should act in a battle forum. The only difference is the writers have the power to put all that in the book, while we only can speculate on it.

I disagree with this. Writers don't write based on logic, they write based on what makes a good story. Because if a story is bad they don't make money.

The problem is people try to desperate to divorce a character from his personality and that kills the whole point of Character A vs Character B because all you get are mindless puppets that fight the way you want them to fight and not how they have been fighting in the comics for decades.

I agree people don't consider personality traits and how those traits impact battles frequently but as I said we should think of why a character wouldn't use a certain power looking at there personality logically. If we can't really think of a reason why the character isn't using that power other than it would put an end to the story quickly than its probably PIS.

Sure, but that's also speculation, because we don't really know that and sometimes the characters can also look like they are going really fast but in reality are not, things like being drawn in a blur or being drawn in multiple positions tend to give out that illusion.

I agree. I don't like to speculate.

In a morals on fight sure, but with morals off i doubt she would be restricting her speed much, the problem is that doesn't make her untaggable even for Hulk, the same way Hulk doesn't grab someone or hold them down or push them back with the same force of moving a planet or doesn't punch them every time with the same force he used on Onslaught or when he one-shot Thor or when he punched Emma with the PF through an island or when he punched through time, etc...

If morals off you are tweaking a characters personality. If a character acts a certain way because of morals this means that they are no longer acting that way. For example with hulk he would be punching with maximum force morals off, but morals on he would hold back. Same supergirl and her speed.

The same should apply for speed, Supergirl is gonna blitz into Hulk, lay down the smack on him with flurry of punches it would be similar to how Clark punched Doomsday 4000+ times(although i doubt she will punch remotely that much) and then Hulk will mostly shrug it off and just counter and his punches are gonna hurt a lot more and she won't be healing from it, nor shrugging it off the same way Hulks damage soak allows him to shrug off punches that would be fatal to most.

I don't really want to get into a supergirl vs hulk debate. I was just saying that characters will likely use there abilities in a more logical way than they would in a comic. I'll leave whether or not hulk can deal with his speed for everyone else to talk about. I don't really know supergirl that well.

@jashro44: I disagree with this. Writers don't write based on logic, they write based on what makes a good story. Because if a story is bad they don't make money.

Writers write based on various things actually. Not just the story, they do sometimes go out their way to insert logic and even funnily enough science in form of physics and chemistry, those are more rare for obvious reasons, but they do happen. Just because a writer wants to progress a story, doesn't mean he is gonna throw logic's out the window. If the logic is bad as in the comic is filled to brim with nonsense outside the story that can also hurt comic sales.

I agree people don't consider personality traits and how those traits impact battles frequently but as I said we should think of why a character wouldn't use a certain power looking at there personality logically. If we can't really think of a reason why the character isn't using that power other than it would put an end to the story quickly than its probably PIS.

Yea but that's the thing, especially since we are dealing with superHERO's a lot of the time, it's usually withing their personality to hold back, don't go all out and restrict things like their strength, speed, power, etc...

If morals off you are tweaking a characters personality. If a character acts a certain way because of morals this means that they are no longer acting that way. For example with hulk he would be punching with maximum force morals off, but morals on he would hold back. Same supergirl and her speed.

Yea but we already have seen many of these characters morals off so we don't have to tweak them ourselves just copy what they already did. Morals off is also different to out of character. Morals off yes characters use more strength, speed, etc... when they fight but people also forget that morals off they also tend to become dumber in their decisions, more linear and more predictable and less likely to want to avoid/dodge something but take it head on.

I don't really want to get into a supergirl vs hulk debate. I was just saying that characters will likely use there abilities in a more logical way than they would in a comic. I'll leave whether or not hulk can deal with his speed for everyone else to talk about. I don't really know supergirl that well.

To some extent sure, but for many characters they already have used their abilities in logical ways in the comics, comics are not something completely devoid of logic all the time. The more of a gap between the characters power the more the logic goes out the window and the story takes precedent but with characters on similar power levels, logic is usually a big factor to the story as well.

@intothevoid:

Writers write based on various things actually. Not just the story, they do sometimes go out their way to insert logic and even funnily enough science in form of physics and chemistry, those are more rare for obvious reasons, but they do happen. Just because a writer wants to progress a story, doesn't mean he is gonna throw logic's out the window. If the logic is bad as in the comic is filled to brim with nonsense outside the story that can also hurt comic sales.

Let me rephrase: The writers primary goal is to write an entertaining story. Yes they don't always ignore logic but what I am saying is if that logic gets in the way of a good or entertaining story they'll ignore it.

Yea but that's the thing, especially since we are dealing with superHERO's a lot of the time, it's usually withing their personality to hold back, don't go all out and restrict things like their strength, speed, power, etc...

Not always. A part of the reason wolverine tanks damage is he enjoys violence. There is some evidence to suggest batman goes H2H with Shiva because he is curious to test his skills. Characters like Frieza are arrogant and will likely toy with other characters.

Yea but we already have seen many of these characters morals off so we don't have to tweak them ourselves just copy what they already did. Morals off is also different to out of character. Morals off yes characters use more strength, speed, etc... when they fight but people also forget that morals off they also tend to become dumber in their decisions, more linear and more predictable and less likely to want to avoid/dodge something but take it head on.

Well I guess this is what I am getting at. But we need to ask ourselves if the showing makes sense or why a character didn't use there abilities to the fullest. I don't think morals off means a character will make dumber decisions. If there angry or bloodlusted maybe. If they do fight that way and you have specific examples in mind of them fighting in a dumb way while angry than that is a valid argument.

To some extent sure, but for many characters they already have used their abilities in logical ways in the comics, comics are not something completely devoid of logic all the time. The more of a gap between the characters power the more the logic goes out the window and the story takes precedent but with characters on similar power levels, logic is usually a big factor to the story as well.

I agree and this is kind of my main point :p.

This hasn't aged well.

@jashro44: Let me rephrase: The writers primary goal is to write an entertaining story. Yes they don't always ignore logic but what I am saying is if that logic gets in the way of a good or entertaining story they'll ignore it.

Sure, but that's when we can point out when the logic of the comic fails and we do it all the time, in fact it seems to be somewhat prevalent nowadays and it's more visible with certain writers than others.

Not always. A part of the reason wolverine tanks damage is he enjoys violence. There is some evidence to suggest batman goes H2H with Shiva because he is curious to test his skills. Characters like Frieza are arrogant and will likely toy with other characters.

Yes and that's a part of their character, their personality and it's not right to take that part away from them in a battle forum setting, unless it's specified.

Well I guess this is what I am getting at. But we need to ask ourselves if the showing makes sense or why a character didn't use there abilities to the fullest. I don't think morals off means a character will make dumber decisions. If there angry or bloodlusted maybe. If they do fight that way and you have specific examples in mind of them fighting in a dumb way while angry than that is a valid argument.

Sure but we also have to remember that these characters are people as well, even if trained warriors with a history of fighting, nobody is going to be thinking at their 100% in the middle of an adrenaline battle and preform at 100% perfect optimal capacity, not even robots probably, there is always some room for mistakes. No necessarily but morals off just tends to be tied closely together with anger/bloodlust. It's not just about them not having qualms about killing someone, it's them actively WANTING to kill someone.

I agree and this is kind of my main point

Well yea, we agree on a lot of things here, it's just a nice discussion to have.

@intothevoid: I don't really disagree with anything your saying at the moment.

Supergirl with ease