Hulk and Hercules vs Sentry and Thor

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Greko

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@beastmonster: No it's Thor, the second scan is Thor on his knees because Venom Spock is his physical superior as mentioned, the third scan is Rhino piercing Thor and Thor not being able to tank it, while Hulk can tank getting pierced through his entire body lol, Thor is lying on the ground in the 4th scan you can see him in the 3rd panel, fifth scan is Thor getting owned by Taurus who lost to Tony lol. Yea you talk about transferring feats yet you keep re-using Hercules punching Hulk, you are so dumb lol.

Thor couldn't beat Nul by his own admission and had to BFR him which didn't even knock Nul out lol. Cho and Thor where both weakened but Cho also held back yet he beat Thor. The disc only restricts powers that the control wants to, nobody wanted to restrict Thors powers in fact they wanted Thor to go all out and kill Chulk but he couldn't LMAO.

Thor still had the OF as confirmed by the writer

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Hulk 1-shot Thor twice, 3-shot him and even 4-shot him. Oh and also recently Hulk has better striking power than Thor as he plowed through a bunker with one punch of his fists that Thor couldn't with repeated strikes from Mljonir LMAO.

Thor attempt

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and then Hulk gives it a try

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How weak is Thor that with his own physicals plus an enchanted axe that can cut through Celestials he can't even go through a bunker that Hulk can with a single punch HAHAHAHA.

Wolverine slashed all over Thor and Thor couldn't heal from it immediately by Thors own admission he couldn't even match Wolverines speed lol. Hulk has gotten stabbed like Swiss cheese, had his torso blown open, decapitated, got his brain pierced and he healed from it all, unlike Thor who needs a lot of time to heal even from smallest of injuries. Like how Cho was fine against Thor while they had to bandage up Thor and fix his broken nose after his fight with Cho lol. Thor weaker physicals which including strength, durability, healing, speed all of which are worse than Hulks are why he was always under Hulk and the only reason he kept up was with a magical hammer with unimaginable powers, once you took his hammer away he can't even defeat Cho Hulk lol. Hopefully the next hammer they give Thor will help him boost up his power level back to or at least close to Hulks, who needs to weapons to fight his fights for him.

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BeastMonster

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#52  Edited By BeastMonster

@greko said:

@beastmonster: No it's Thor, the second scan is Thor on his knees because Venom Spock is his physical superior as mentioned, the third scan is Rhino piercing Thor and Thor not being able to tank it, while Hulk can tank getting pierced through his entire body lol, Thor is lying on the ground in the 4th scan you can see him in the 3rd panel, fifth scan is Thor getting owned by Taurus who lost to Tony lol. Yea you talk about transferring feats yet you keep re-using Hercules punching Hulk, you are so dumb lol.

Thor being on his knees is not a Ko. First scan is ragnarok as shown by the robotic facial expression and appearance. Rhino had the midgard serpent tooth there which he had plenty of help obtaining via loki iirc.

Hulks been killed by a weapon which wouldn't even cut through thors bones. He's been brainstabbed by claws which only gave thor papercuts on the face. Taurus lost to tony after hawkeye weakened him and messed with the suits technology with his enhanced arrow. Hulk was killed and brainstabbed by namors trident and wolverine so no he absolutely can't tank getting pierced through his body. midgard serpent is a weakness for thor, yet hulk gets killed by weapons which can't cut through thors body.

Hercules has been stated to be physical equals with thor a few times. On the contrary hulk has been stated as being below thor, and his durability is significantly below thors to the point where he can be impaled and brainstabbed by things which can only cut thor skin deep. Hulk needs a healing factor to keep up with thor whilst hercules has no such healing factor like hulk does.

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Thor couldn't beat Nul by his own admission and had to BFR him which didn't even knock Nul out lol. Cho and Thor where both weakened but Cho also held back yet he beat Thor. The disc only restricts powers that the control wants to, nobody wanted to restrict Thors powers in fact they wanted Thor to go all out and kill Chulk but he couldn't LMAO.

Thor still had the OF as confirmed by the writer

Wrong. Nul was Koed. scans attached for nul as well as thor being depowered before the hulk thing fight. Thor was weakened from a sakaarian portal and obedience disk which both weakened surfer. chulk recovered faster from the sakaarian portal, as he has a healin factor much stronger than thor or surfers. thor was wrestling for control with the disk the entire fight, it was flat out stated he could have killed chulk with one swing of his axe moreover he never even touched cho with lightning throughout the entire fight at all. cho didn't hold back, he was only told to stop holding back by thor when cho wasn't punching thor or fighting back. not fighting back is not the same as holding back. cho never held back his punches. they wanted thor to kill chulk yet thor was wrestling for control with the obedience disk, striking the ground instead of cho, trying to talk to cho getting cho to work with him, and they also clearly didn't allow thor to unleash his lightning since it would have been too destructive. thor was weakened, held back, yet chulk failed to knock him out.

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Reader comment states: Take the recent thor fight against hulk, wolverine, thing, and other marvel characters-wherein thor absolutely dominates his competition. how did thor pull that off, did he have the odin power at the time?

jurgens: it was still an odin powered thor. it had to be.

Lets look at what was shown on panel.

Did thor dominate wolverine? yes. he melted and killed him. did thor have the odinpower when he melted wolverine? yes.

did thor dominate the thing and the hulk? no. he fought them for hours, lost an arm in the process, had his cape torn to shreds, etc. Did he have his odinpower when he fought hulk and the thing? no. strange depowered him with the necklace.

did thor dominate captain america? yes.he melted him and his shield down in the beginning of the fight. did thor have his odinpower when he dominated cap and his shield? yes, he did, he tore off the depowering necklace when he melted cap down. before he tore the depowering necklace off, cap actually staggered him with a shield throw.

jurgens gave a general response to a question that asked about thors fights with "hulk, wolverine, thing, and other marvel characters". If the question had asked particularly about the hulk and the thing, jurgens would have responded with thor being depowered in that fight, since that is exactly how it went down.

the people thor dominated were when he had the odinpower.

the thing is, he never "dominated" the hulk and the thing. He killed hulk and the thing in a brutal, bloodlusted fight which took hours, and ended up with thor having a broken arm and shredded cape. losing your arm and getting your cape shredded in a fight doesn't mean you "dominated". it means you won and beat your opponent. but dominating would be when he melted wolverine and no sold his claws. or when he just melted down cap and his shield with an eye blast. he was on panel shown being depowered by strange before fighting hulk and the thing.

for the record tom breevort has stated what's on panel is what matters, what writers say in interviews doesn't.

if pak years from now says green scar was actually a weakened hulk, or changes his mind on something, it doesn't matter. what's on panel is what matters.

in this instance thor killed hulk and the thing on panel. maybe 5 years from now jurgens could change his mind on the topic. however, whats on panel is what holds true. and in this case jurgens wasn't referring to the hulk/thing fight. he was answering a readers comment about thors fight with hulk, wolverine, thing, and other marvel heroes. the question was general.

jurgens even confirms it when he says "with superman or thor you introduce the threat on page one, its a big threat, then its over by page two" "it ends with one shot to the back of the head"

its pretty clear the hulk vs thing fight wasn't an easy fight considering how it went down. and jurgens never said thor had the odinpower in the hulk/thing fight. he didn't as shown per comics. also if you believe the reigning is non canon you'd have no reason to argue this. so can you clarify this- are you unsure about the reigning being uncanon? because right now it seems like you originally argued the reigning is non canon, but then when your argument was debunked you tried moving the goalposts and arguing thor had his skyfather power when he killed hulk and the thing, and then when you got debunked on that standpoint you started arguing that hulk was depowered to professor hulk levels

if that's your argument than that would mean thor was depowered to captain america levels yet he still killed an enraged hulk and the thing.

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Hulk 1-shot Thor twice, 3-shot him and even 4-shot him. Oh and also recently Hulk has better striking power than Thor as he plowed through a bunker with one punch of his fists that Thor couldn't with repeated strikes from Mljonir LMAO.

Can you show the scans of this? So you still don't have the scans of hulk supposedly one shotting thor twice, 3 shotting and 4 shotting him? Why can't you provide the scans of these? I mean I have provided you the scans where thor has Koed/killed the hulk. If hulk has koed thor before it shouldn't be difficult to find the scans of the instances. Bloodying someones face is not a knockout. It's bloodying their face.

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and then Hulk gives it a try

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How weak is Thor that with his own physicals plus an enchanted axe that can cut through Celestials he can't even go through a bunker that Hulk can with a single punch HAHAHAHA.

Wolverine slashed all over Thor and Thor couldn't heal from it immediately by Thors own admission he couldn't even match Wolverines speed lol. Hulk has gotten stabbed like Swiss cheese, had his torso blown open, decapitated, got his brain pierced and he healed from it all, unlike Thor who needs a lot of time to heal even from smallest of injuries. Like how Cho was fine against Thor while they had to bandage up Thor and fix his broken nose after his fight with Cho lol. Thor weaker physicals which including strength, durability, healing, speed all of which are worse than Hulks are why he was always under Hulk and the only reason he kept up was with a magical hammer with unimaginable powers, once you took his hammer away he can't even defeat Cho Hulk lol. Hopefully the next hammer they give Thor will help him boost up his power level back to or at least close to Hulks, who needs to weapons to fight his fights for him.

So you're showing me hulk can't break through a bunker at all unless thor basically cuts through nearly the entire thing and weakens it for him first? Okay.

Wolverine made papercuts to thors face, failed to cut through his lower back, and only cut him noticeably on his stomach area. On the contrary wolverine has outright brainstabbed hulk, namors trident has killed him with a stab, etc. Dark hulk cho failed to Ko a thor weakened from a sakaarian portal and obedience disk two things which weakened silver surfer. Hulk needs his healing factor and ability to increase his strength just to keep up with thor on a strength, stamina, and durability standpoint. He has consistently failed to match thors speed. thor grabbed a bloodlusted wolverine by the ankle and tossed him despite one hand occupied holding a hammer and despite being slashed in the face twice by wolverine whilst hulk has to resort to Aoe strikes or thunderclaps or just wait for wolverine to fight him toe to toe in order to tag him.

Scans have already been provided of hercules koing green scar, thor killing savage hulk/the thing in a brawl, a weakened thor killing angrir and koing nul (an amped green scar) with mjolnir. mjolnir is what thor uses to oneshot or stomp hulk but in addition to this he has stronger durability, stronger strength which hulk needs to get angry enough to match, as well as greater stamina, speed, and fighting skills. hulk even while being enraged failed to put down a depowered/weakened thor who was weakened to the point a nuke could have killed him.

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BeastMonster

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@greko: ?? this is the same post as before. I already addressed all these arguments in my prior post. looks like you copy/pasted the same thing but just added on 'fetch doggy'.

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TheTruthIII

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Team 2. Sentry carries

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Jmarshmallow

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@greko said:

@jmarshmallow: How does Unworthy Thor beat Savage Hulk, when he couldn't even beat a holding back Cho? A worthy Thor is a good fight for Hulk that can go either way, a unworthy Thor not so much.

Unworthy Thor also stalemated Hercules recently.

IIRC UT took down Hela, Proxima Midnight, and Black Swan simultaneously with one lightning punch. I also remember him having a pretty good fight against the Phoenix.

And then there was the Apoc fight.

You're right that I shouldn't have said that Hercules gets stomped though. I really don't give Hercs enough credit sometimes, feat-wise he's definitely up there with the heavy hitters.

I think my point still stands though, given that I do think Sentry stomps either before either one beats UT.

@lvenger:

In what universe is Unworthy Thor vs Savage Hulk a good fight? Savage Hulk has consistently been evenly matched with Worthy Thor when he wielded Mjolnir. Hell Thor has gone all out against Hulk 3 times and not succeeded in beating him. Not to mention the fight Thor had with Hulk without his hammer when Hulk beat the snot out of Thor. And then there's the recent instance in Secret Empire #6 where Hulk breaks through a wall that Unworthy Thor could only dent.

I definitely see your point. IMO though, SH fluctuates a lot, whereas UT was pretty consistent with his level, unlike Standard Thor who also fluctuates. And the level that UT operated on seems sufficient to beat SH in a good fight.

Thor himself has said that he needs Mjolnir to beat Hulk, but I think Jarnbjorn could do the job considering how it's shredded some other opponents.

So I guess Hercules holding his own against a stable Sentry whilst fighting the Dark Avengers never happened then.

Sentry and Hercules both admitted that Sentry was holding back. And despite the fact that Sentry pretty much let Hercules ragdoll him, Herc did absolutely no damage to him. So that's a poor example.

Based off feats from both of them, there is really no reason why a Stable Sentry actively trying to beat him down should have any trouble doing so.

As I recall Savage Hulk wasn't overwhelmed by Sentry in their brief fight in Hulk vol 3 #8 so I don't see why that would be a stomp for Sentry at all.

Volume 2 actually, I believe.

That being said, Hulk was actively trying to win, Sentry was trying to talk him out of it. Again, context is key. That fights not really relevant here.

On the other hand Void, who is below Stable Sentry, absolutely whooped Savage Hulk.

That's a more accurate representation.

Again what on Earth are you basing this on? Thor and Hercules have been consistently matched in virtually all their fights and contests and a fair winner has never emerged between the two. Thor has admitted Hercules is his physical equal more than once as well. The only advantages between the two is that Thor can summon lightning whereas Hercules is the superior H2H fighter.

This I actually agree with after more thought on it. Herc is pretty consistently on their tier when he fights characters like that, even if he does have a bad habit of also getting roughed up below his weight class.

This is at least a fairer, more balanced comment but by no means is it the objective outcome. If this is Post Core Breach Hulk, he has a confirmed strength amp from the Sakaar warp core breach which increases his baseline strength higher than it was before and is stated to be the physically strongest Marvel hero. Considering Pre Core Breach Hulk was easily a match for Thor, Post Core Breach Hulk should beat Thor. As for Thor and Hercules, their track record is dead on par so Hulk would have time to beat Sentry.

The problem with this is that Hulk can not beat a Stable Sentry. They are on completely different tiers.

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Greko

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#58  Edited By Greko

@jmarshmallow:

IIRC UT took down Hela, Proxima Midnight, and Black Swan simultaneously with one lightning punch. I also remember him having a pretty good fight against the Phoenix.

And then there was the Apoc fight.

You're right that I shouldn't have said that Hercules gets stomped though. I really don't give Hercs enough credit sometimes, feat-wise he's definitely up there with the heavy hitters.

I think my point still stands though, given that I do think Sentry stomps either before either one beats UT.

Luke Cage took down Proxima, so that's not really much, Black Swan also has trouble with mid tiers in the current Avengers comic, so not impressive either. The Hela thing from what i understood is that Hela was weakened and lost most of her powers. What did he do against Phoenix?

That wasn't Apoc, it was Genesis and all he did was throw punches at Thor.

Unworthy Thor has been massively disappointing for the most part and very inconsistent, to the point where he couldn't with his own physical strength plus Janjborn slice through a wall that Hulk could with one punch.

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Jmarshmallow

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@greko said:

Luke Cage took down Proxima, so that's not really much,

Holy crap, he did? You got scans? That's crazy.

Black Swan also has trouble with mid tiers in the current Avengers comic, so not impressive either.

Currently maybe, but when UT fought her she was pretty impressive.

The Hela thing from what i understood is that Hela was weakened and lost most of her powers.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement.

What did he do against Phoenix?

No serious damage, admittedly. Just kinda tussled for a bit.

That wasn't Apoc, it was Genesis and all he did was throw punches at Thor.

Apoc is Genesis tho.

Unworthy Thor has been massively disappointing for the most part and very inconsistent, to the point where he couldn't with his own physical strength plus Janjborn slice through a wall that Hulk could with one punch.

Definitely his lowest feat, I'll give you that.

However..."I think my point still stands though, given that I do think Sentry stomps either before either one beats UT."

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Greko

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#60  Edited By Greko

@jmarshmallow: I can't find the whole thing, forgot the name of the comic

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What did she do when UT fought her? I can't remember her doing anything other than getting trashed by his lightning.

Why is it an overstatement? Wasn't Hela weakened or do you expect an Unworthy Thor to overcome a Skyfather level being?

Ok.

Eh not really, they kinda split into 2, but even still all Genesis did was throw punches at Thor and all Thor did was swing his axe until he hit him and his axe is specifically designed to harm his type of armor.

Actually his lowest feat would be getting physically overpowered by 1 frost giant.

I dunno, as we've seen you held a much higher opinion of Sentry then i do. Either way my point is specifically about UT, whose not stomping anyone here, in fact if anything Hulk should stomp him.

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ivan_jimenez86

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Hulk defeats Sentry again!

Hercules stalemates Thor again!

Hulk & Hercules double spears Thor!