Hulk and Hercules vs Sentry and Thor

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mr-luxcipher

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deactivated-5a6e225c194f8

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Team 2

Low-Diff

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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Unworthy Thor stalemated Hercules during Secret Empire and Sentry>Hulk.

Sentry then gives Hercules the Ares treatment

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MarvelandDCfan24

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Team 2 handidly

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destinyman75

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Team two Thor can beat either in a tough contest sentry likewise. Though hulk and herc can give them hell, Thor and sentry have too much versitliy

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kgb725

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Hulk would need to take out Thor early otherwise they lose

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Batvibe12

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Team 2.

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Battle123axe

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am i reading right?

Unworthy thor beating hulk? HA!

this is a close fight however, but I'm siding with team two however, as I believe that stable sentry is above savage hulk, which is enough to just push team two over the edge

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Daredevil808

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Team 2

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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am i reading right?

Unworthy thor beating hulk? HA!

this is a close fight however, but I'm siding with team two however, as I believe that stable sentry is above savage hulk, which is enough to just push team two over the edge

Unworthy Thor stalemated Hercules in Secret Empire

Sentry being above Savage Hulk is common knowledge lol

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Battle123axe

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#11  Edited By Battle123axe

@battle123axe said:

am i reading right?

Unworthy thor beating hulk? HA!

this is a close fight however, but I'm siding with team two however, as I believe that stable sentry is above savage hulk, which is enough to just push team two over the edge

Unworthy Thor stalemated Hercules in Secret Empire

Sentry being above Savage Hulk is common knowledge lol

uh huh. what does that have to do with odinson beating hulk?

i suppose

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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@_kingoflatveria said:
@battle123axe said:

am i reading right?

Unworthy thor beating hulk? HA!

this is a close fight however, but I'm siding with team two however, as I believe that stable sentry is above savage hulk, which is enough to just push team two over the edge

Unworthy Thor stalemated Hercules in Secret Empire

Sentry being above Savage Hulk is common knowledge lol

uh huh. what does that have to do with odinson beating hulk?

i suppose

yeah idk bout beating Hulk he could still give him a run for his money.

Thor seems to be fighting Chulk soon, so depending how badly Thor stomps Chulk or vice versa we can somewhar determine the verdict of a battle between them

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dami24434

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bump.team 2

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Battle123axe

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still team 1

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WollfMyth209

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Team 2.

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Edgli

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Team 2 , Herc is a weak link.

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JanJuKBMa

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Team 2

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Team 2, still.

Yes, Unworthy Thor can beat Savage Hulk his axe can do things his hammer couldn't...like decapitation

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Wakel

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Team 2

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Jmarshmallow

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Unworthy Thor vs Savage Hulk is a good fight, but I'd say Thor.

Sentry vs Hercules is a stomp for Sentry.

Sentry vs Savage Hulk is a stomp for Sentry.

Unworthy Thor vs Hercules is a stomp for Thor.

Either way, even if you debate the closest engagement of this battle (Thor vs Hulk) there's no way that Hulk beats Thor before Sentry beats Hercules.

Team 2 low diff.

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Greko

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@jmarshmallow: How does Unworthy Thor beat Savage Hulk, when he couldn't even beat a holding back Cho? A worthy Thor is a good fight for Hulk that can go either way, a unworthy Thor not so much.

Unworthy Thor also stalemated Hercules recently.

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HellionVulcan

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@greko said:

@jmarshmallow: How does Unworthy Thor beat Savage Hulk, when he couldn't even beat a holding back Cho? A worthy Thor is a good fight for Hulk that can go either way, a unworthy Thor not so much.

Unworthy Thor also stalemated Hercules recently.

Unworthy Thor held back against Cho as he kept telling him to fight him iirc so thats a terrible example, Team 2 should dominate.

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Greko

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#23  Edited By Greko

@hellionvulcan said:
@greko said:

@jmarshmallow: How does Unworthy Thor beat Savage Hulk, when he couldn't even beat a holding back Cho? A worthy Thor is a good fight for Hulk that can go either way, a unworthy Thor not so much.

Unworthy Thor also stalemated Hercules recently.

Unworthy Thor held back against Cho as he kept telling him to fight him iirc so thats a terrible example, Team 2 should dominate.

Unworthy Thor didn't hold back, in fact it was impossible for him to hold back since he had an obedience disc, also both Thor and others around him kept telling Cho he will kill him if he doesn't start taking the fight seriously. I suggest you re-read the story since you are remembering it poorly, because it was Cho who was actually holding back, something acknowledged by even Thor himself.

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HellionVulcan

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@greko said:
@hellionvulcan said:
@greko said:

@jmarshmallow: How does Unworthy Thor beat Savage Hulk, when he couldn't even beat a holding back Cho? A worthy Thor is a good fight for Hulk that can go either way, a unworthy Thor not so much.

Unworthy Thor also stalemated Hercules recently.

Unworthy Thor held back against Cho as he kept telling him to fight him iirc so thats a terrible example, Team 2 should dominate.

Unworthy Thor didn't hold back, in fact it was impossible for him to hold back since he had an obedience disc, also both Thor and others around him kept telling Cho he will kill him if he doesn't start taking the fight seriously. I suggest you re-read the story since you are remembering it poorly, because it was Cho who was actually holding back, something acknowledged by even Thor himself.

Thor did hold back by trying to fight the obeisance disk control giving Cho the chance to punch Thor away for the fake win.

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Greko

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#25  Edited By Greko

@hellionvulcan said:
@greko said:
@hellionvulcan said:
@greko said:

@jmarshmallow: How does Unworthy Thor beat Savage Hulk, when he couldn't even beat a holding back Cho? A worthy Thor is a good fight for Hulk that can go either way, a unworthy Thor not so much.

Unworthy Thor also stalemated Hercules recently.

Unworthy Thor held back against Cho as he kept telling him to fight him iirc so thats a terrible example, Team 2 should dominate.

Unworthy Thor didn't hold back, in fact it was impossible for him to hold back since he had an obedience disc, also both Thor and others around him kept telling Cho he will kill him if he doesn't start taking the fight seriously. I suggest you re-read the story since you are remembering it poorly, because it was Cho who was actually holding back, something acknowledged by even Thor himself.

Thor did hold back by trying to fight the obeisance disk control giving Cho the chance to punch Thor away for the fake win.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Wow... how the hell do you manage to twist the comic and what happened so much? Your intepertation is incorrect. First off it's impossible to hold back with the obedience disc, Surfer couldn't, Banner Hulk couldn't, Reed couldn't, Tony Stark couldn't and neither could Thor, he repeatedly told Cho he will kill him, here he states he CAN'T HANG ON

No Caption Provided

Thor obviously doesn't want to kill Cho but he has no choice since he CANT stop himself. Thor did not give the chance to Cho to beat him, he was going for the killing blow it was Cho's rope-a-dope technique(as in feigning like he is being beaten) that ultimately defeated Thor something neither Thor nor anyone else was expecting because Cho was ACTING. Thor even notes how it wont work twice because he will expect it the second time, while Cho remarks it doesn't need to as he grabs and breaks Thors disc setting him free.

No Caption Provided

Now lets see how you try and spin this and explain to me how exactly Thor held back when Surfer, Hulk, etc... couldn't.

Let me help you, what you wanted to say was the disc restricts the users power to a certain degree if the owner wishes it, for instance it prevented Surfer from using the power cosmic, so you could debate whether or not Thor could use all his powers here, you can't debate that he was holding back because that would literally be impossible in this situation.

You know who was CONFIRMED to hold back though?

Cho, in fact the entire issue as he was fighting Thor he was also fighting the Hulk inside him who wanted to take the metaphorical wheel and potentially kill Thor if he needs to.

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HellionVulcan

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#26  Edited By HellionVulcan

@greko said:
@hellionvulcan said:
@greko said:
@hellionvulcan said:
@greko said:

@jmarshmallow: How does Unworthy Thor beat Savage Hulk, when he couldn't even beat a holding back Cho? A worthy Thor is a good fight for Hulk that can go either way, a unworthy Thor not so much.

Unworthy Thor also stalemated Hercules recently.

Unworthy Thor held back against Cho as he kept telling him to fight him iirc so thats a terrible example, Team 2 should dominate.

Unworthy Thor didn't hold back, in fact it was impossible for him to hold back since he had an obedience disc, also both Thor and others around him kept telling Cho he will kill him if he doesn't start taking the fight seriously. I suggest you re-read the story since you are remembering it poorly, because it was Cho who was actually holding back, something acknowledged by even Thor himself.

Thor did hold back by trying to fight the obeisance disk control giving Cho the chance to punch Thor away for the fake win.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Wow... how the hell do you manage to twist the comic and what happened so much? Your intepertation is incorrect. First off it's impossible to hold back with the obedience disc, Surfer couldn't, Banner Hulk couldn't, Reed couldn't, Tony Stark couldn't and neither could Thor, he repeatedly told Cho he will kill him, here he states he CAN'T HANG ON

No Caption Provided

Thor obviously doesn't want to kill Cho but he has no choice since he CANT stop himself. Thor did not give the chance to Cho to beat him, he was going for the killing blow it was Cho's rope-a-dope technique(as in feigning like he is being beaten) that ultimately defeated Thor something neither Thor nor anyone else was expecting because Cho was ACTING. Thor even notes how it wont work twice because he will expect it the second time, while Cho remarks it doesn't need to as he grabs and breaks Thors disc setting him free.

No Caption Provided

Now lets see how you try and spin this and explain to me how exactly Thor held back when Surfer, Hulk, etc... couldn't.

Let me help you, what you wanted to say was the disc restricts the users power to a certain degree if the owner wishes it, for instance it prevented Surfer from using the power cosmic, so you could debate whether or not Thor could use all his powers here, you can't debate that he was holding back because that would literally be impossible in this situation.

You know who was CONFIRMED to hold back though?

Cho, in fact the entire issue as he was fighting Thor he was also fighting the Hulk inside him who wanted to take the metaphorical wheel and potentially kill Thor if he needs to.

"First off it's impossible to hold back with the obedience disc"

Weird considering Thor did it twice in the same comic in the scans i uploaded hahaha. Explain Thor stating No (even before that Thor was waiting) and giving Cho the chance to recover and punch him ?.

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Lvenger

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#27  Edited By Lvenger

@jmarshmallow:

Unworthy Thor vs Savage Hulk is a good fight, but I'd say Thor.

In what universe is Unworthy Thor vs Savage Hulk a good fight? Savage Hulk has consistently been evenly matched with Worthy Thor when he wielded Mjolnir. Hell Thor has gone all out against Hulk 3 times and not succeeded in beating him. Not to mention the fight Thor had with Hulk without his hammer when Hulk beat the snot out of Thor. And then there's the recent instance in Secret Empire #6 where Hulk breaks through a wall that Unworthy Thor could only dent.

Sentry vs Hercules is a stomp for Sentry.

So I guess Hercules holding his own against a stable Sentry whilst fighting the Dark Avengers never happened then.

Sentry vs Savage Hulk is a stomp for Sentry.

As I recall Savage Hulk wasn't overwhelmed by Sentry in their brief fight in Hulk vol 3 #8 so I don't see why that would be a stomp for Sentry at all.

Unworthy Thor vs Hercules is a stomp for Thor.

Again what on Earth are you basing this on? Thor and Hercules have been consistently matched in virtually all their fights and contests and a fair winner has never emerged between the two. Thor has admitted Hercules is his physical equal more than once as well. The only advantages between the two is that Thor can summon lightning whereas Hercules is the superior H2H fighter.

Either way, even if you debate the closest engagement of this battle (Thor vs Hulk) there's no way that Hulk beats Thor before Sentry beats Hercules.

This is at least a fairer, more balanced comment but by no means is it the objective outcome. If this is Post Core Breach Hulk, he has a confirmed strength amp from the Sakaar warp core breach which increases his baseline strength higher than it was before and is stated to be the physically strongest Marvel hero. Considering Pre Core Breach Hulk was easily a match for Thor, Post Core Breach Hulk should beat Thor. As for Thor and Hercules, their track record is dead on par so Hulk would have time to beat Sentry.

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Greko

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#28  Edited By Greko

@hellionvulcan: Are you trolling me? Why are you making this so difficult... Thor didn't hold back anywhere. Thor stated "No", because you still have complete control over what you say it was literally the same for Hulk, Surfer, Reed, Stark, etc... Thor not wanting to kill Cho is different from him being unable to stop himself from killing him.

Also do you understand what rope-a-dope means? And why it was referenced here?

rope-a-dope

noun

USinformalnoun: rope-a-dope

  1. a boxing tactic of pretending to be trapped against the ropes, goading an opponent to throw tiring ineffective punches.

Thor, Warlord, the audience, Cho's friends all thought Cho was finished, he was beaten and Thor was standing above him, there is nothing about Thor giving chance to Amadeus because they didn't think there was any chance, Thor even states "forgive me Amadeus" thinking this is the end, he wasn't expecting(nobody was) that Amadeus was faking it. This is why Thor tells Amadeus it wont work twice meaning he wont be able to fake him the second time which tells you that it has NOTHING to do with Thor giving any chance to Cho.

It's like saying Nul was giving Thor here a chance

No Caption Provided

because Nul was standing over a kneeling Thor. He wasn't, Nul wasn't holding back there and neither was Thor. Those are just DRAMATIC PAUSES, that writers use to emphasize certain things, usually the sudden and surprise comeback of the one that is thought to be defeated, they happen all the time across comics. If Thor WAS holding back then we would have some reference to it, either the Warlord stating something like "he is fighting my control" or Thor himself stating something like "i am doing my best to hold back" or even the audience or the narrator or ANYTHING referencing it. But we got nothing, despite having Cho being reference to hold back about 4-5 different times in that fight alone while Thor was referenced to hold back 0(ZERO) times.

Can you stop with the nonsensical interpretations now?

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Greko

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As for the thread itself i don't know really.

The problem here is Sentry to me he is a very poor character to use for these forums, considering he falls in the list of characters whose power levels seem to be all over the place. And each writer has their own interpretation of him.

So i really don't know what to say i am not convinced Sentry is superior to characters like Hulk and Thor, but i don't know if i can accurately say he is below them either.

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Helloman

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Team two wins.

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cdiddyman911

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I'll take team 2

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Rustlingjimmy

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HellionVulcan

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@greko said:

@hellionvulcan: Are you trolling me? I know from our past interrelations that you can be very difficult but this is literally just trolling at this point. Thor didn't hold back anywhere. Thor stated "No", because you still have complete control over what you say it was literally the same for Hulk, Surfer, Reed, Stark, etc... Thor not wanting to kill Cho is different from him being unable to stop himself from killing him.

Also do you not understand what rope-a-dope means? And why it was referenced here?

rope-a-dope

noun

USinformalnoun: rope-a-dope

  1. a boxing tactic of pretending to be trapped against the ropes, goading an opponent to throw tiring ineffective punches.

Thor, Warlord, the audience, Cho's friends all thought Cho was finished, he was beaten and Thor was standing above him, there is nothing about Thor giving chance to Amadeus because they didn't think there was any chance, Thor even states "forgive me Amadeus" thinking this is the end, he wasn't expecting(nobody was) that Amadeus was faking it. This is why Thor tells Amadeus it wont work twice meaning he wont be able to fake him the second time which tells you that it has NOTHING to do with Thor giving any chance to Cho.

It's like saying Nul was giving Thor here a chance

No Caption Provided

because Nul was standing over a kneeling Thor. He wasn't, Nul wasn't holding back there and neither was Thor. Those are just DRAMATIC PAUSES, that writers use to emphasize certain things, usually the sudden and surprise comeback of the one that is thought to be defeated, they happen all the time across comics. If Thor WAS holding back then we would have some reference to it, either the Warlord stating something like "he is fighting my control" or Thor himself stating something like "i am doing my best to hold back" or even the audience or the narrator or ANYTHING referencing it. But we got nothing, despite having Cho being reference to hold back about 4-5 different times in that fight alone while Thor was referenced to hold back 0(ZERO) times.

Can you stop with the nonsensical interpretations now?

The entire page is Thor clearly holding back in his intent as it's why they had to force Thor to attack or he would've decapitated Cho Hulk in the first panel, if it was impossible to fight the obedience disc control as you stated. Another thing just because it's not stated on panel doesn't mean a character isn't holding back either as Thor was clearly fighting the control which shows/implies restraint on his part to do harm towards Cho.

"Thor himself stating something like "i am doing my best to hold back" or even the audience or the narrator or ANYTHING referencing it"

Besides Thor's facial reaction and saying No which is a clear indication of Thor fighting against the disks control, DUH.

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Greko

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#34  Edited By Greko

@hellionvulcan said:
@greko said:

@hellionvulcan: Are you trolling me? I know from our past interrelations that you can be very difficult but this is literally just trolling at this point. Thor didn't hold back anywhere. Thor stated "No", because you still have complete control over what you say it was literally the same for Hulk, Surfer, Reed, Stark, etc... Thor not wanting to kill Cho is different from him being unable to stop himself from killing him.

Also do you not understand what rope-a-dope means? And why it was referenced here?

rope-a-dope

noun

USinformalnoun: rope-a-dope

  1. a boxing tactic of pretending to be trapped against the ropes, goading an opponent to throw tiring ineffective punches.

Thor, Warlord, the audience, Cho's friends all thought Cho was finished, he was beaten and Thor was standing above him, there is nothing about Thor giving chance to Amadeus because they didn't think there was any chance, Thor even states "forgive me Amadeus" thinking this is the end, he wasn't expecting(nobody was) that Amadeus was faking it. This is why Thor tells Amadeus it wont work twice meaning he wont be able to fake him the second time which tells you that it has NOTHING to do with Thor giving any chance to Cho.

It's like saying Nul was giving Thor here a chance

No Caption Provided

because Nul was standing over a kneeling Thor. He wasn't, Nul wasn't holding back there and neither was Thor. Those are just DRAMATIC PAUSES, that writers use to emphasize certain things, usually the sudden and surprise comeback of the one that is thought to be defeated, they happen all the time across comics. If Thor WAS holding back then we would have some reference to it, either the Warlord stating something like "he is fighting my control" or Thor himself stating something like "i am doing my best to hold back" or even the audience or the narrator or ANYTHING referencing it. But we got nothing, despite having Cho being reference to hold back about 4-5 different times in that fight alone while Thor was referenced to hold back 0(ZERO) times.

Can you stop with the nonsensical interpretations now?

The entire page is Thor clearly holding back in his intent as it's why they had to force Thor to attack or he would've decapitated Cho Hulk in the first panel, if it was impossible to fight the obedience disc control as you stated. Another thing just because it's not stated on panel doesn't mean a character isn't holding back either as Thor was clearly fighting the control which shows/implies restraint on his part to do harm towards Cho.

"Thor himself stating something like "i am doing my best to hold back" or even the audience or the narrator or ANYTHING referencing it"

Besides Thor's facial reaction and saying No which is a clear indication of Thor fighting against the disks control, DUH.

No he isn't. Thor himself does not want to kill Cho, but he is under their control. Secondly i EXPLAINED this to you already. EVERYONE thought Cho was finished, there was no fighting back, secondly pauses like that are used for dramatic purpose like i already showed you with Nul and Thor. It literally is impossible if it wasn't Thor wouldn't have swung his axe and said forgive me Amadeus before Amadeus punched him out. Why didn't he put down the axe if it isn't impossible to hold back? Sorry but your evidence is doesn't exist, we still need SOME reference to know if character is holding back and we got none, why can 4 different characters state MULTIPLE times that Cho is holding back but NO ONE can say that Thor is holding back as well? Not one person?

"Facial reaction" lol. What facial reaction, the one where he appeared bloodlusted or the one where he looks like he is struggling which is the same face Cho makes and anyone thats fighting a powerful opponent makes? Again i told you, you can say whatever you want under the discs control it has nothing to do with you being unable to control your actions and for the last time Thor himself said when Amadeus asked him to "hang on", that he CAN NOT HANG ON.

No Caption Provided

Why didn't Thor answer him with "I CAN HANG ON BUT ONLY FOR A MOMENT" or something, ANYTHING. No he just told him that HE CAN'T.

Are we done with this nonsense or are you gonna continue further by telling me how reading Thors "facial reactions" from an artist who traces actual pornstars and uses their facial expressions is the evidence you need to tell you that Thor is holding back. LOL.

This is embarrassing. Comicvine really has a big problem with fanboyism and too much ego, nobody can admit when they are wrong anymore, no worse yet they double down...

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Noone1996

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Team 1.

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BeastMonster

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Thor and sentry stomp. They have superior durability, comparable strength. Sentry has a massive speed advantage, versatility and flight advantage. Thor has a massive speed advantage via lightning, and a massive gear advantage via his axe. Anytime you have two beings who are very comparable, but you give one of them super powered amped up magical lightning and a super powered magical axe that can cut through anything, or super speed, or flight; the side with the additional amps and abilities is going to win the fight. Thors lightning can flat out vaporize hercules and hulk if he wants to and his axe can decapitate both of them near effortlessly if he wants to. Sentry has a massive advantage due to his speed, flight and versatility. Both thor or sentry are more than capable of soloing team 1 if they really wanted to. Via exploiting their gear, lightning, flight or speed advantages

Unworthy Thor stalemated Hercules during Secret Empire and Sentry>Hulk.

Sentry then gives Hercules the Ares treatment

That was void sentry who tore ares apart. He also broke every bone in hulks body. Both hulk and ares aren't as durable as hercules and sentry isn't voided out here. Moreover, sentry can beat both hulk and hercules but he's not going to stomp. An unstable sentry stalemated with green scar hulk while a voided out one literally broke every bone in hulks body and tore ares apart. But i believe when he tore ares apart it did weaken him and mess with his powers later on, there were some statements on panel mentioning how killing a god had taken so much energy out of sentry or something iirc. Regardless there's a clear difference in unstable vs a voided sentry.

am i reading right?

Unworthy thor beating hulk? HA!

this is a close fight however, but I'm siding with team two however, as I believe that stable sentry is above savage hulk, which is enough to just push team two over the edge

Unworthy thor wouldn't beat hulk he would outright stomp him. You can turn bloodlust on for hulk and all he can do is punch harder. Turn bloodlust on for thor and he can cut hulk in half with one swing of his axe or outright vaporize him with lightning. A hulk who cuts loose is significantly below a thor who cuts loose. Compare blood and thunder thor who pretty much stomps people who would stomp world breaker hulk in a fight. I don't see unworthy thor vs hulk as debatable considering the things and people thors axe has cut. Hulks already been brain stabbed by wolverine, decapitated by captain americas shield, had his skull cut open by an adamantium chainsaw, cut by starks energy blades and wendigo, impaled/killed by namors trident, etc. Ergo, hulk has absolutely no way of surviving jarnbjorn which is significantly sharper than all of the things listed above. A weaker uru sword wielded by heimdall has already stabbed straight through mangogs flesh. So hulk has literally no way to resist jarnbjorn besides thors morals holding him back.

Unworthy Thor vs Savage Hulk is a good fight, but I'd say Thor.

Sentry vs Hercules is a stomp for Sentry.

Sentry vs Savage Hulk is a stomp for Sentry.

Unworthy Thor vs Hercules is a stomp for Thor.

Either way, even if you debate the closest engagement of this battle (Thor vs Hulk) there's no way that Hulk beats Thor before Sentry beats Hercules.

Team 2 low diff.

This is pretty much my view on this fight. The reason sentry can stomp hercules and hulk is due to his comparable strength and durability, much greater speed and versatility. An unstable sentry has already stalemated green scar hulk and green scar himself has been knocked out by hercules, whilst hercules didn't knock out or really come close to knocking out sentry either.

Unworthy thor can stomp both hercules and hulk due to his jarnbjorn axe and his lightning. His physicals are comparable to hercules, and he has already defeated both the hulk and the thing in a brawl. Hulk vs thor was only ever debatable if it came down to a pure h2h brawl between hulk and thor with no lightning, jarnbjorn, mjolnir or other gear or amps involved.

@greko said:

How does Unworthy Thor beat Savage Hulk, when he couldn't even beat a holding back Cho? A worthy Thor is a good fight for Hulk that can go either way, a unworthy Thor not so much.

Unworthy Thor also stalemated Hercules recently.

Worthy thor has outright one shotted hulk on numerous occasions. Worthy thor and hulk can only 'go either way' for a short amount of time if its a sparring match, grappling, or a h2h brawl. Thor's already outright killed the hulk in a brawl as well. You can't look at worthy thor vs hulk fights then argue that worthy thor vs hulk goes either way, when the fact of the matter is worthy thor fought hulk the same way unworthy thor would fight him, which is brawling. In fact their fights went either way despite thor only brawling with him and having one hand occupied holding a hammer. Cho also wasn't holding back in their fight, there's a difference between holding back and not fighting back. UNworthy thor told cho to stop holding back and to fight back, in the beginning of the fight when cho wasn't fighting back. Once cho started fighting back there were absolutely no statements made about him "holding back". holding back as in pulling your punches is not the same as not fighting back where you don't fight back at all. Moreover thor was wrestling for control with the obedience disk the entire fight, protecting cho by striking the ground with his axe instead of striking cho and so on. Thor was weakened from the sakaarian portal which teleported him onto sakaar, and was further weakened by the obedience disk. Both of these things weakened the silver surfer before under pak, and they clearly weakened thor in this case. Lastly despite thor being weakened and having his lightning and godly powers limited it was flat out stated on panel that he could have killed cho hulk with one swing of his axe. Hence why chulk had to save himself from dying in the end of the fight. Moreover chulk literally has the same hulk that banner had inside of him, he didn't have any obedience disk, and his healing factor would allow him to heal quickly from going through any portal onto the planet. So this was a fully powered chulk/banner hulk who could have been killed by an axe swing from a weakened/power limited thor. Thor has also knocked out nul hulk before as well as tanked his attacks.

Another important thing to note is that a weakened and power limited thor literally shattered cho hulks shadowforge blade with two swings of his axe. The same shadowforge blade has mortally wounded and chopped up world breaker hulk before. Jarnbjorns own cutting feats and hulks own showings against weaker piercing weapons than jarnbjorn all add up to an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating hulk has no plausible way of going up against a thor wielding jarnbjorn. It's basically like you have an amped up wolverine who has superman like strength and durability, reduced healing factor, claws replaced with an even sharper bladed axe, plus super powered magical lightning. Even in a h2h fight hulk has inferior durability, combat speed, and fighting skills to thor. His strength is on par or marginally superior at best, so his only legit advantage over thor is a much stronger healing factor, which doesn't really help if you are going up against someone more durable, faster and more skilled than you. Which is why thor beat him in the brawl at the end of the day.

Cho, in fact the entire issue as he was fighting Thor he was also fighting the Hulk inside him who wanted to take the metaphorical wheel and potentially kill Thor if he needs to.

Cho was only holding back in the beginning when he didn't want to fight back. And cho having an internal conflict with hulk isn't any different than thor fighting against the control of the obedience disk. Hulk was fighting for control with cho while thor was fighting for control with the obedience disk. Both hulk and the obedience disk were trying to get thor and cho to kill the other. Except the thing is odinson was weakened via the portal and further limited and weakened by the obedience disk. Cho had no such obedience disk, and recovered quickly from the sakaarian portal due to his healing factor. So cho didn't really look too good in the fight considering it was also stated on panel that thor could have killed him with a single swing of the axe. And thor literally shattered a weapon which has cut world breaker hulk before. Shattered it in two strikes.

@lvenger said:

In what universe is Unworthy Thor vs Savage Hulk a good fight? Savage Hulk has consistently been evenly matched with Worthy Thor when he wielded Mjolnir. Hell Thor has gone all out against Hulk 3 times and not succeeded in beating him. Not to mention the fight Thor had with Hulk without his hammer when Hulk beat the snot out of Thor. And then there's the recent instance in Secret Empire #6 where Hulk breaks through a wall that Unworthy Thor could only dent.

Hulks never matched worthy thor. He's come close to matching him in a brawl but at the end of the day even without lightning or mjolnir thor has flat out killed the hulk and the thing in a deathmatch style brawl. Why would thor ever need to go all out against hulk considering he has casually KOed savage hulk with lightning, koed him with the aftershocks/remnants of a lightning storm, flat out KOed an amped green scar with a hammer swing, nearly killed hulk with a hammer swing while holding back, etc. Hercules himself has KOed green scar with a punch while holding back and could have pummeled him to death while he was koed on the ground.

The wall break doesn't make sense, clearly if thor dented it he weakened it first before hulk broke it. Do you also have the scan of this instance you're referring to? If thor only dented it by slicing it with his axe that makes the feat even worse for hulk. Considering even bladed weapons which can cut through anything would still take some time to chop through a solid wall or a building whilst a punch or energy blast could just shatter it.

So I guess Hercules holding his own against a stable Sentry whilst fighting the Dark Avengers never happened then.

Hercules and sentry didn't really hurt each other or go all out on each other. So the fight doesn't really show much besides being a decent reaction/skill feat for hercules. All though hercules did significantly hurt green scar with a punch while holding back. So he's definitely not a weakling imo.

As I recall Savage Hulk wasn't overwhelmed by Sentry in their brief fight in Hulk vol 3 #8 so I don't see why that would be a stomp for Sentry at all.

An unstable sentry was bloodying and beating green scar hulk, and technically stalemated him just because both of them reverted to human forms. Which means unstable sentry >>> savage hulk, and stable sentry >>>> green scar or world breaker.

Again what on Earth are you basing this on? Thor and Hercules have been consistently matched in virtually all their fights and contests and a fair winner has never emerged between the two. Thor has admitted Hercules is his physical equal more than once as well. The only advantages between the two is that Thor can summon lightning whereas Hercules is the superior H2H fighter.

Herc and thor have been physically matched. thor can stomp him because his lightning can outright vaporize him and his celestial, galactus, destroyer and mangog cutting axe can decapitate hercules with a few swings. Hercules is a better fighter but thor outright has a ton more firepower. Thors never cut loose against his friend hercules or his friend and teammate the hulk. His lightning and axe have damaged and destroyer beings astronomically superior and lightyears more powerful than hulk or hercules.

This is at least a fairer, more balanced comment but by no means is it the objective outcome. If this is Post Core Breach Hulk, he has a confirmed strength amp from the Sakaar warp core breach which increases his baseline strength higher than it was before and is stated to be the physically strongest Marvel hero. Considering Pre Core Breach Hulk was easily a match for Thor, Post Core Breach Hulk should beat Thor. As for Thor and Hercules, their track record is dead on par so Hulk would have time to beat Sentry.

That's false. Calling hulk the strongest marvel hero would be factually incorrect unless you want to show me his strength being anywhere comparable to gods, skyfathers, and numerous other heroes? Hulk was labelled as the strongest hero on earth, and the strongest humanoid being. Note they have never called hulk the strongest hero in marvel. Note they have never called hulk the strongest avenger. Note they've never said hulk is the strongest in the marvel universe. They've explicitly said hulk is the strongest hero on or from marvel earth. Which doesn't include thor, hyperion, gladiator, surfer, hercules, beta ray bill, odin, zeus, etc. Precore breach hulk was weaker than thor, a lot weaker to the point he couldn't match thor in strength. Hercules and thor are physical equals but like hulk, hercules has no answer for thors galactus cutting axe or his above planetary level lightning storms and attacks.

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#37  Edited By Greko

@beastmonster: It wasn't even shadowforge weapon lol.

Cho lost to a holding back Chulk lul.

Hulk vaporizes Thor with a thunderclap.

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@greko said:

@beastmonster: It wasn't even shadowforge weapon lol.

Cho lost to a holding back Chulk lul.

Hulk vaporizes Thor with a thunderclap.

It was a shadowforge sword, it simply didn't have the capabilities to withstand two strikes from jarjbjorn because it isn't durable enough to do so.

Hulk doesn't have any thunderclap feats indicating he is capable of doing so. Even his strongest thunderclaps wouldn't knock thor out. On the contrary thor's lightning has casually koed hulk, and his stronger lightning attacks have hurt beings lightyears above hulk in strength and durability.

Also chulk failed to knockout an unworthy thor weakened from a sakaarian portal and obedience disk ( while chulk himself didn't have any obedience disk on him and his healing factor would have enabled him to heal much faster from the portal than thor would).

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#39  Edited By Greko

@beastmonster: Where was it said to be a shadowforge weapon?

Hulks thunderclaps broke Umars shield when it send FFF crashing through them, when even Thors hammer throws couldn't dent it lol. Hulk one-shot Thor before, one-shot him again with his own hammer, 4-shot him with his own hammer another time, 3- shot him with his own feats, Hulk just keeps owning Thor lol.

Chulk one punch humiliated a willing to kill Thor while holding back lul and while weakened.

Hulk vaporizes Thor with a thunderclap, cry more.

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@greko said:

@beastmonster: Where was it said to be a shadowforge weapon?

Hulks thunderclaps broke Umars shield when it send FFF crashing through them, when even Thors hammer throws couldn't dent it lol. Hulk one-shot Thor before, one-shot him again with his own hammer, 4-shot him with his own hammer another time, 3- shot him with his own feats, Hulk just keeps owning Thor lol.

Chulk one punch humiliated a willing to kill Thor while holding back lul and while weakened.

Hulk vaporizes Thor with a thunderclap, cry more.

Most of your argument here was debunked. Chulks sakaarian blade was in fact shadowforge as that is their primary/only metal on the planet, moreover they wouldn't have armed him with a steel or iron blade as you're implying, and lastly, the blade had the exact same appearance and texture that shadowforge weapons have in general. The spiky, silver-gray colored blades.

Odinson was weakened, he had the obedience disk. Chulk didn't have any obedience disk.

Thor's hammer throws depend on how fast the hammer is being thrown. So the umar shield feat isn't relevant unless you can show proof of the same type of shield surviving a full force hammer throw from thor.

Can you provide the scans of hulk "one shotting thor, one shotting thor with his own hammer, 4 shotting him with his hammer, 3 shotting him with his own feats"

That is four instances of hulk supposedly "one shotting" thor.

For the record, one shotting means you have to kill or KO someone with one hit. If you can only bloody or bruise their face, that is not a "one shot".

Thor has killed and one shotted hulk, even one shotted an amped green scar with a hammer swing before. on the contrary hulk has never successfully Koed thor. the best he ever did was hitting thor with his own hammer.

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#41  Edited By Greko

@beastmonster: All of your argument are incipit whining garbage that gets laughed off this site just as much as your deranged PM's you made as whoisthebest and all the alts you had since then including this one where you finally figured out to change your VPN, took you about a few hundred tries. Show me where it was stated that Chulk weapon is shadowforge until then all you have is assumptions, shadowforge is also not the primary weapon of Sakaar it is in fact a rare metal as the Warbound had to go and make it in preparation for the invasion of Earth.

Odinson was prepared to kill and yet he still lost to an inferior Hulk, Chulk was also weakened but also holding back and he still won. The obedience disc restricts the users powers if the wielder wants to, nobody restricted Thors powers because Thor himself never mentioned it, unlike Surfer who directly mentioned it.

OF Thor from a non-canon universe does not apply, Thor had to BFR Nul because he couldn't kill or even KO him and he admitted to him he cant defeat him.

Hulk still vaporizes Thor with a thunderclap. Your tears are delicious.

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#42  Edited By BeastMonster

@greko said:

@beastmonster: All of your argument are incipit whining garbage that gets laughed off this site just as much as your deranged PM's you made as whoisthebest and all the alts you had since then including this one where you finally figured out to change your VPN, took you about a few hundred tries. Show me where it was stated that Chulk weapon is shadowforge until then all you have is assumptions, shadowforge is also not the primary weapon of Sakaar it is in fact a rare metal as the Warbound had to go and make it in preparation for the invasion of Earth.

Odinson was prepared to kill and yet he still lost to an inferior Hulk, Chulk was also weakened but also holding back and he still won. The obedience disc restricts the users powers if the wielder wants to, nobody restricted Thors powers because Thor himself never mentioned it, unlike Surfer who directly mentioned it.

OF Thor from a non-canon universe does not apply, Thor had to BFR Nul because he couldn't kill or even KO him and he admitted to him he cant defeat him.

Hulk still vaporizes Thor with a thunderclap. Your tears are delicious.

So I'll assume you don't have those scans of all those one shots/four shots you had mentioned earlier? Show me where it was stated chulk was weakened or holding back. Holding back is not the same as not fighting back.

The reigning occurred in 616. After thor killed the heroes he went back in time and brought everyone back to life. He actually was depowered by dr stranges depowering necklace which severed his connection to the odinforce. then he proceeded to beat the hulk and the thing in a 2v1 death match style brawl. it was a fair fight, he simply used his superior durability, physicals, speed and fighting skills to take hulk out.

No, he Koed nul. Nul healed the damage later on, but was Koed in space.

Thor went through an obedience disk and sakaarian portal on panel. Chulk never went through a portal and had no obedience disk. He unleashed his dark hulk yet failed to Ko a weakened/depowered thor who didn't even strike cho with lightning or his axe at any point in the fight.

These are some of thors wins over hulk. Most of them were cases where he casually Koed him with lightning or a hammer swing. If you have the scans of hulk one shotting thor feel free to provide them. I've already seen all those fights and hulk has never Koed thor. The best he has done is send thor flying with a punch or bloody his face with his own hammer. These scans also show he has no resistance to thor's lightning, in fact he can't heal from it either since he gets Koed as soon as it hits him which means it overwhelms his durability and healing factor.

We know thors powers were restricted considering he never used a lightning bolt or struck cho with any lightning. Moreover thor was struggling for control with the obedience disk the entire time. So he was weakened, depowered, and holding back/wrestling for control. Yet chulk couldn't take him out, and chulk has the same hulk inside of him that banner had inside him. So the instance doesn't help your case here. Thor and stable sentry have the feats and capabilities to take team 1 out.

If you have scans of hulk one shotting or four shotting thor or sentry, can you provide those? If all he can do is bloody thors face and not Ko him, that isn't a one shot or four shot to be honest.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

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@greko:

I have i posted them in another thread already go chase after them there doggy. Chulk was weakened since he went through the same portal as everyone else.

No it happened in a different timeline, also Thor still had the OF as confirmed by the writer himself.

Nul was not KO'd in space, if Thor could have KO'd him he would have done so on Earth but he had to BFR him because he couldn't beat him under his own admission.

LOL Chulk never went through a portal? Are you sure about that slick? Not only did he go through the portal but he stated how it had weakened him.

Chulk healed from the portal near immediately via healing factor. Thor has no healing factor comparable to hulk. Then thor had the obedience disk on top of it.

The reigning was 616. Can you show me where it was stated that it took place in an alternate universe? You do realize it occurred in 616, then is now an alternate timeline because king thor himself literally rewrote time and brought hulk and the other killed heroes back to life? The feats all occurred in 616. The writer didn't say anything, he confirmed that thor had the odinpower when he melted wolverine however did not have it when he fought the hulk and the thing. After the hulk and the thing fight, thor tore the power draining necklace off, then melted down caps shield with his eyebeams.

Umm no, thor had to hit nul hard enough to Ko him. He did Ko him on earth, the fact of the matter is he hit him hard enough to ko him. The force of the hit koed nul and sent him flying into space. Obviously only sending nul a hundred feet away with a punch isn't going to ko him. That wouldn't even ko a mid tier. The harder you hit someone with a blunt force attack the farther distance they would travel.

You are so bad at this, how are you so bad? You made so many alt accounts your brain rotted away.

Hulk beat Hulk several times already, almost all of the time before he even got his permanent amp where he got even more powerful, while Thor stayed the same, actually he lost his hammer which was the primary source of his power so he is even weaker now LMAO.

Thors powers where not restricted as he was constantly coating himself around with lightning and fighting the obedience disc was impossible as even Thor stated himself when he told Hulk he can't hang on. Hulk already tanked Thors lightning on several occasions, heck he even tanked Zeus lightning and Zeus lightning makes Thors look like a taser in comparison LOL.

Here let me help you doggy.

Compare my scans to yours. In my scans we see thor koing or killing hulk. Hulks limp/koed/killed body is shown on panel.

In your scans, there isn't a single instance where thor is koed. The best hulk did on that standpoint was ironically when he hit thor with his own hammer, the same hammer which nearly killed savage hulk in just one swing while thor was holding back.

In your other scan hulk sends thor flying with a punch. sending someone flying with a punch isn't a ko. A KO is what thor did to hulk in the scans i provided earlier.

Hulk bloodying thors face with repeated punches doesn't help your case. I asked for instances of him Koing or killing thor. None of your scans show this.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

And here's the full context on one of the scans you tried passing off as a knockout. It isn't even close. Hercules koing green scar is what a valid knockout looks like. And thor can and has replicated the same, and much better as well.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

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@greko: ignore him dude, replying more than once to correct him on things just brings you down to his level to anyone who skims the thread.

Can’t fix what’s already completely broken.

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@beastmonster: No he didn't where does it say Hulk got healed from being weakened? It took Hulk weeks to heal fully from the portal in original Planet Hulk. Yea you are right Thor has a horrible healing factor compared to Hulk he is so weak.

No it was not canon and Thor had the OF as confirmed by the writer.

No Thor had to hit Nul hard enough to BFR him since he tried to kill him but he couldn't, but Thor did manage to knock himself out seconds later when he fell from exhaustion lol.

Yea unfortunately 2 of your scans are non-canon and one features OF Thor as confirmed by the writer. In my scans Thor is KO'd in 4 instances he is even bleeding profusely in several of them lol as he lays on the floor unconscious. I also love how Thor never managed to KO Hulk with his own hammer not even with his hardest hits going for the kill but Hulk casually 1-shot and 4-shot Thor with them HAHAHAH, how ironic.

Hercules never KO'd Hulk, neither did Hyperion. Wolverine did but that's fine he stuck 6 blades into Hulks head and Hulk healed, Thor almost died to Wolverine cutting him up a little LOL, if Wolverine stuck 6 blades into Thors head he would have been dead unlike Hulk who got up seconds after it happened fully healed.

Yea that was a knock out, Thor was out cold while Hulk was casually walking away and then as the narrator says "Thor got up slowly and painfully" all bloodied up and bruised lol.

Here is what a knock out looks like

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Thor can't even bloody up Hulks face, he did bloody up Nul but somehow looked worse than Nul himself despite getting off way more hits on Nul then Nul on him lol.

You also didn't retract you saying Cho didnt go through a portal and wasnt weakened when there is on panel evidence of both.

Retract your statement, take the L like a man for once.

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#47  Edited By Greko

@thedailybagel said:

@greko: ignore him dude, replying more than once to correct him on things just brings you down to his level to anyone who skims the thread.

Can’t fix what’s already completely broken.

I know man, but i am doing this purposely and having fun with him, he can't do anything otherwise he will get perma banned again, while i don't care. I will just make fun of him and yes i am intentionally stooping down to his level, but only when dealing with him.

You, Ghost and the rest should ignore him as he is trying to rile you up with troll posts intentionally i have nothing to lose here so i can take a dump on him lol, just leave him to me. The worst he can do is make dozens of alt accounts again to cry about it in PM's lol.

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Team 2.

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#50  Edited By BeastMonster

@greko said:

@beastmonster: No he didn't where does it say Hulk got healed from being weakened? It took Hulk weeks to heal fully from the portal in original Planet Hulk. Yea you are right Thor has a horrible healing factor compared to Hulk he is so weak.

No it was not canon and Thor had the OF as confirmed by the writer.

No Thor had to hit Nul hard enough to BFR him since he tried to kill him but he couldn't, but Thor did manage to knock himself out seconds later when he fell from exhaustion lol.

Yea unfortunately 2 of your scans are non-canon and one features OF Thor as confirmed by the writer. In my scans Thor is KO'd in 4 instances he is even bleeding profusely in several of them lol as he lays on the floor unconscious. I also love how Thor never managed to KO Hulk with his own hammer not even with his hardest hits going for the kill but Hulk casually 1-shot and 4-shot Thor with them HAHAHAH, how ironic.

Hercules never KO'd Hulk, neither did Hyperion. Wolverine did but that's fine he stuck 6 blades into Hulks head and Hulk healed, Thor almost died to Wolverine cutting him up a little LOL, if Wolverine stuck 6 blades into Thors head he would have been dead unlike Hulk who got up seconds after it happened fully healed.

Yea that was a knock out, Thor was out cold while Hulk was casually walking away and then as the narrator says "Thor got up slowly and painfully" all bloodied up and bruised lol.

Here is what a knock out looks like

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Thor can't even bloody up Hulks face, he did bloody up Nul but somehow looked worse than Nul himself despite getting off way more hits on Nul then Nul on him lol.

You also didn't retract you saying Cho didnt go through a portal and wasnt weakened when there is on panel evidence of both.

Retract your statement, take the L like a man for once.

The first scan is ragnarok. not thor. The second scan is not a knockout. The third scan is midgard serpents tooth being used. Which can pierce and poison thor. There is no knockout in the fourth scan. Fifth scan is an amped taurus. Taurus is taurus, hulk is hulk. If we're transferring feats over than that would mean regardless of how you argue for hulk I could just apply all of hulks feats to thor and vice versa. So transferring feats doesn't work.

A weakened thor knocked out an amped green scar hulk. Cho hulk has a much stronger healing factor than thor does meaning he recovers much faster from the sakaarian portal and the obedience disk. The portal and the obedience disk weakened the silver surfer under the same writer, pak. Unless you want to argue thor is so astronomically more durable than hulk and surfer that he doesn't get affected by things which weaken and depower them, than as it stands thor would be as weakened as surfer was from the portal and the disk.

Nope, on panel thor gets depowered before fighting savage hulk and the thing and killing them. The writer only made a comment about the reigning arc as a whole. The question included wolverine and other heroes. Thor had the odinpower when he melted wolverine down but did not have it when he beat hulk and the thing. scans provided

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Thor nearly killed savage hulk with a hammer swing while holding back, and Koed a massively amped green scar hulk with a hammer swing as well.

No, wolverine failed to penetrate thor's lower back, and failed to cut his bones. Thor's bones are too durable for wolverine to cut, further proven when wolverine's bloodlusted slashes only made papercuts on thors face.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

On the contrary hulk has been brainstabbed by wolverine, impaled by wolverine as green scar, mortally wounded by shadowforge weapons as wbh while thor has shattered chulks shadowforge blade with two swings of his axe. Hulks also been decapitated by captain americas shield, had his skull cut open by an adamantium chainsaw, chopped up by wendigo and ironmans energy blades, decapitated by ares axe as grey hulk, killed by a stab from namors trident, etc. Whether it's piercing durability, blunt force durability or energy durability hulk has consistently shown he needs his healing factor to keep up with thor on a damage soak or durability standpoint. Even as green scar his arm got impaled by wolverine whilst wolverine was incapable of cutting through thors lower back more than skin deep. Can you show me where wolverine 'almost killed' thor considering his slashes only left papercuts to the face as shown above? Wolverine only managed to cut thor significantly in the stomach area yet he failed to pierce through his lower back whilst wolverine has literally stabbed hulk through the skull. Hulks piercing weakness and lower durability doesn't transfer over to other characters otherwise we can just argue that sentry and thor here have hulk level healing factors in which case they still win the fight regardless due to having hulks healing plus their added speed, versatility and powers.