Wonderwoman see's with a Gods eye, she is resistant to telepathy ... Maxwell Lord is an example when he couldn't control her. So i don't think he would stop her ... he may though, i dont know.
Emma Frost, Jean Grey and Martian Manhunter all have better TP feats than Xavier. he isn't beating any of them one on one (at their peak). WW has TP resistance (protected by Zeus or some such - maybe it was Gaea), though there is that one instance where Lord whiped his existence from her mind that screams PIS. Superman Doesn't have TP resistance at all, he was mind controlled by Max Lord (who's NO WHERE near any TPer in this thread) and has been telepathically manipulated by Dubbilex, Brainiac (in Milton Fine's body), and he was made to believe things to occur that hadn't by Manchester Black. That's no feat at all.
Professor's X strength in TP comes from his superior skill and experience (which is a key factor for tp users..power is only a fraction of it) Jean Grey trumps him badly when it comes to raw psionic power and Emma atleast matches him with skill....experience won't be enough for him, he stops at round 4, for sure
If he can get pass Emma and Jean, I say goes all the way through.
Xavier needed Cerebro to reach every mind of Earth, IIRC. MM can do it without the boost.
No he doesn't. Xaviar was casually reading every mind on earth since he was 12. He has also merged every mind on earth into one mind and used it as a weapon, twice. And from the moon, he merged 9 billion skrull minds together and forced them into Galactus. And Galactus has some serious TP blocks. Xavier would slaughter Martian Manhunter.
Haha. Martian Manhunter, in contrast, has read every mind on Earth at least four times, used the memories of dead people against Black Adam, overloaded D'Kay D'Razz's mind by flooding it with the emotions of everyone on the planet, connected with the mind of Mageddon, and scanned the mind of the Spectre four times. And Jordan's Spectre's TP blocks are far and away better than Galactus' TP blocks considering the abstract personification of the universal unconscious couldn't get anywhere close to his mind despite repeated efforts.
The only time i recall Xavier reaching Galactus`s mind,he had Magneto`s help,it almost made him collapse and ,even then,he could only get inside it for a second or two. When did that instance with the 9 billion Skrulls happen?
If he can get pass Emma and Jean, I say goes all the way through.
Xavier needed Cerebro to reach every mind of Earth, IIRC. MM can do it without the boost.
No he doesn't. Xaviar was casually reading every mind on earth since he was 12. He has also merged every mind on earth into one mind and used it as a weapon, twice. And from the moon, he merged 9 billion skrull minds together and forced them into Galactus. And Galactus has some serious TP blocks. Xavier would slaughter Martian Manhunter.
Haha. Martian Manhunter, in contrast, has read every mind on Earth at least four times, used the memories of dead people against Black Adam, overloaded D'Kay D'Razz's mind by flooding it with the emotions of everyone on the planet, connected with the mind of Mageddon, and scanned the mind of the Spectre four times. And Jordan's Spectre's TP blocks are far and away better than Galactus' TP blocks considering the abstract personification of the universal unconscious couldn't get anywhere close to his mind despite repeated efforts.
He didn't connect with the mind of Mageddon. He connected to Lex luthor who was being controlled by Mageddon. And MM his mind fried,and would have died if it weren't for Green Lantern. He also needed Batman's help to do it. And the best part about all of this is, GL and Lex Luthor overrided Mageddons control he had over them, but Martian almost died from trying to read someones who was being controlled by Mageddon. Perhaps you should go read that story arch again, because it isn't nearly as impressive as you seem to think it is. He scanned the mind of spectre once, and the spectre allowed him to. In the same exact issue the spectre was mind raped by the joker of all people. Yeah that must be some pretty powerful tp resistance the spectre has
No he didn't Batman's help he connected Batman to Superman's mind so he can talk to him. Maybe you need to read the issue again. He forced his way into the (Hal) Spectre's mind and showed him what the Joker's mind look liked at the core. When did Joker mind rape the Spectre? If your thinking of the same issue I'm thinking of, then you're wrong. The one I read the Spectre was absorbing the monster's in Joker's head and the reason MM was in so much pain was because of his telepathic sensitivity. (That's what Hal Spectre said at least.)
If he can get pass Emma and Jean, I say goes all the way through.
Xavier needed Cerebro to reach every mind of Earth, IIRC. MM can do it without the boost.
If you read old issue of X-men you will see that Xaiver could easily mentally scan the planet (IIRC, even the galaxy) but Magneto altered the planet's electro-magneto field, limiting Xavier's mental range to 250 miles. He can overcome the limitation with some affect.
Ok so he read less minds than Charles less times? Okay. He got the idea to use this on Black Adam because he read Black Adams mind saw all the people he killed and ran away literally crying. Where as Charles casually reads the minds of beings who destroy worlds and are completely insane. MM never shut down Dkay's mind. In fact Dkay mind raped MM for weeks without him knowing. He then hit her with an attack that Xavier has used several times, and she wasn't shut down by it. She was still very much walking around making threats. So MM flew her into the sun an an attempt to kill himself and the crazed martian. He didn't connect with the mind of Mageddon. He connected to Lex luthor who was being controlled by Mageddon. And MM his mind fried,and would have died if it weren't for Green Lantern. He also needed Batman's help to do it. And the best part about all of this is, GL and Lex Luthor overrided Mageddons control he had over them, but Martian almost died from trying to read someones who was being controlled by Mageddon. Perhaps you should go read that story arch again, because it isn't nearly as impressive as you seem to think it is. He scanned the mind of spectre once, and the spectre allowed him to. In the same exact issue the spectre was mind raped by the joker of all people. Yeah that must be some pretty powerful tp resistance the spectre has.
Even tho your feats aren't impressive/never happened i'll keep naming Charles feats. Such as having Thanos come to him personally and ask for his help to battle a cosmic being who had already mind raped, Moondragon, Silver Surfer and Jean grey. How many cosmic beings has MM battled with his telepathy?
Long time no see, Spike. Still misrepresenting facts, I see.
Reading the minds of everyone on earth is rather casual for the Manhunter. That being said, he has been inside the minds of beings who destroy worlds and are completely insane as well. He mind controlled the Joker while Joker was holding the Philosopher's Stone in his hand, which is activated by thought and will and which Joker was employing to cause catastrophes around the globe.
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D'Kay had access to J'onn's mind because green Martians are automatically mentally joined with one another and because J'onn partially allowed her entrance. He was conflicted about the deaths of Martians and what her appearance could portend for the future of Mars. Once he had been thoroughly fed up with her, he denied her passage into his mind altogether, and she could do nothing about it. With that said, you make this sound as if it was a low showing anyway while simultaneously disregarding circumstances. D'kay was powerful enough that she was accidentally scanning billions of minds, resisted Miss Martian's telepathy, and harmed Miss Martian telepathically. And yet despite that, when J'onn decided to end her ability to TP him, it ended, and he returned the favor by filling her head with the minds of everyone on earth.
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Yes, he did connect with the mind of Mageddon. But since you brought up Lex Luthor, let's address that showing first. Lex was under the direct influence of Mageddon, a weapon with telepathic control powerful enough to cause entire populations of worlds to enter mass war and destroy themselves as it did against Wonderworld, a planet populated by gods. Mageddon mind controlled Luthor, and the Martian broke Luthor out of Mageddon's control. He circumvented the telepathic hold that Luthor was afflicted with from a weapon that can TP the wills of entire worlds. I have no idea how or why you could possible undersell this feat, but you always find a way.
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He did not nearly die or need Batman or Green Lantern's help either. You just made this up out of thin air. The Manhunter probed Mageddon to find Superman and then formed a connected between Batman's mind and Superman's while Superman was mentally subjugated by Mageddon. In short, you need to read this story, not anyone else here.
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Next, he entered Spectre's mind more than once, and no, Spectre did not allow him to. The Martian penetrated his mind once in attempt to revive him and on another occasion pulled Spectre on and off the astral plane against his will. And in Soul War, that exact version of Spectre himself probed the entire population of earth, isolated those who supported the JLA, and funneled their mental energy to aid the JLA. So clearly, Spectre is hardly lacking in telepathic potency. As for your blatant attempt at underrating the Spectre, he was not mind raped by the Joker (how could he be mind raped by a character without telepathy, Spike?). Additionally, Spectre actually protected the JLA from the astral projections in Joker's mind that coalesced as a result of his insanity. He is not weak in this department.
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As for telepathic fights, well, the aforementioned fight for Luthor's mind is a decent example. J'onn also casually defeated Malefic on the astral plane, and he broke out of Fernus' restraints on the astral plane as well. He also has feats such as wrecking Gorilla Grodd telepathically while his powers were weakened, severing Bette Noir's psionic resources (Noir herself defeated Dubbilex telepathically), and instantly inducing comas into White Martians. I also recall him holding his own against five or so Saturnians in a mental battle by himself, but I could remembering this incorrectly.
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Regarding scanning the earth, this is easy for the Manhunter, and I could bore you with scans of him demonstrating this capacity on at least four or five occasions. But I think this example from JLA Classified is more pertinent. While unconscious, J'onn links his mind with John Stewart and then searches across entire dimensions to find Flash.
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While on the subject, we could examine telepathic resistance. J'onn shielded Batman and Lex Luthor from Mageddon, a planetary telepath. He defended himself and the JLA from Doctor Destiny, who had put the entire earth to sleep and was augmenting his powers with earth's energies. Aquaman is incapable of affecting him. He has resisted the telepathy of multiple White Martians simultaneously. He resisted the effects of the En'tarans. So on and so on.
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But of course, I harbor no illusions that you will evaluate these with anything resembling objectivity. It doesn't hurt to dismantle your post though.
@Silver2467: Great post, Silver. I suspected he was Spike from a previous Buffy (blatant giveaway) thread that he was on. I just want to add a few Spectre TP/resistance feats before he or anyone else decides to underrate him:
He's mindwiped everyone on the planet, removing their memories of the Flash's identity. And......
Stigmonus, who represented the collective unconscious of the universe, could not enter Hal's mind.
Just to put J'onn's feat, that he's pulled off repeatedly, into perspective.
@Silver2467: Great post, Silver. I suspected he was Spike from a previous Buffy (blatant giveaway) thread that he was on. I just want to add a few Spectre TP/resistance feats before he or anyone else decides to underrate him:
Nice. I forgot about that one.
He's mindwiped everyone on the planet, removing their memories of the Flash's identity. And......
Stigmonus, who represented the collective unconscious of the universe, could not enter Hal's mind.
Just to put J'onn's feat, that he's pulled off repeatedly, into perspective.
This, I have never seen before. Very impressive, and yes, it does put into perspective the power of the Manhunter's intrusive telepathy (though in fairness, J'onn never actually affected the Spectre's mind, just entered it and brought it onto the astral plane, but still a solid feat regardless).
If he can get pass Emma and Jean, I say goes all the way through.
Xavier needed Cerebro to reach every mind of Earth, IIRC. MM can do it without the boost.
No he doesn't. Xaviar was casually reading every mind on earth since he was 12. He has also merged every mind on earth into one mind and used it as a weapon, twice. And from the moon, he merged 9 billion skrull minds together and forced them into Galactus. And Galactus has some serious TP blocks. Xavier would slaughter Martian Manhunter.
1) No he wasn't. 2) He had cerebro when he merged every mind on Earth. 3) He had Magneto helping him when he accessed Galactus's mind.
If he can get pass Emma and Jean, I say goes all the way through.
Xavier needed Cerebro to reach every mind of Earth, IIRC. MM can do it without the boost.
No he doesn't. Xaviar was casually reading every mind on earth since he was 12. He has also merged every mind on earth into one mind and used it as a weapon, twice. And from the moon, he merged 9 billion skrull minds together and forced them into Galactus. And Galactus has some serious TP blocks. Xavier would slaughter Martian Manhunter.
1) No he wasn't. 2) He had cerebro when he merged every mind on Earth. 3) He had Magneto helping him when he accessed Galactus's mind.
2) No he didn't.
3) Not sure about the Magneto thing but he did use his mental powers on him second time....and it worked....somewhat
@Ferro Vida: He wasn't boosted in that instance the scan is showing. And the instance where Charles and Magneto teams up to fend off Galactus. Magneto was boosted by Charles to pull off a Massive EMP wave that was suppose to effect Galactus but didn't go as planned. It had nothing to do with Charle's connections to people globally.
All cerebro helps him do is lock in on specific mind with X genes. Which isn't something I've seen any telepath be able to do without the help of cerebro no matter how powerful they are. Being a telepathic does not give you genetic knowledge of someone, as far as I'm aware.
Emma Frost, Jean Grey and Martian Manhunter all have better TP feats than Xavier. he isn't beating any of them one on one (at their peak). WW has TP resistance (protected by Zeus or some such - maybe it was Gaea), though there is that one instance where Lord whiped his existence from her mind that screams PIS. Superman Doesn't have TP resistance at all, he was mind controlled by Max Lord (who's NO WHERE near any TPer in this thread) and has been telepathically manipulated by Dubbilex, Brainiac (in Milton Fine's body), and he was made to believe things to occur that hadn't by Manchester Black. That's no feat at all.
He's better than Emma and has admitted to being stronger, only thing she has over him is a tendency to be willing to play dirty. She's needed psychic prep just to try and beat him. Emma at best also stalemated Exodus whom Xavier beat while weakened and with a bullet in his head. That being said, I agree he isn't beating Jean or MM and he isn't beating Jean and Emma together for sure.
The philospher stone reacts to anyones thoughts. Holding it does nothing unless you think to use it. And the joker didnt use it.
And how did you come to that conclusion? I was kind enough to provide you with the scans of the incident in question, and within those scans, Joker uses the Philosopher's Stone. Aztek stated outright that there were catastrophes occurring around the globe, which Superman and Martian Manhunter relayed, and Joker was orchestrating them as was his goal, proven by his dialog. Since you apparently missed it (purposefully), let me isolate this for you. "Massive seismic disturbances... Tectonic plate upheaval... Weather patterns out of control..."
I dont even know why you brought this up.
You would if you read my post, but your response conveys an obvious lack of reading comprehension. @Silver2467 said:
That being said, he has been inside the minds of beings who destroy worlds and are completely insane as well.
You claimed The Manhunter has difficulty with insane minds, in spite of his entering the minds of the Joker (repeatedly), Spectre (repeatedly), and everyone on earth (repeatedly).
Thats not why he was mind raped by Dkay and you know it wasn't. The martian didnt allow her to do anything and it wasn't because of some special martian bond. She had already tried murdering Miss martian and John specifically said when they finally meet he would kill her. But for some reason he let her into his mind at the moment he was trying to murder her? Yeah that makes loads of sense. Dkay was telepathically mind raping martian to the point of insanity before they even met. And when they did finally meet he scanned her brain for weaknesses so he could shut it down. He failed. Then she made him think he had brought back everyone on mars. And he believed this lie for weeks. Ultimately your scans are "misrepsresntations" if not out right lies. MM didnt break free til weeks later after he suddenly started murdering all of his friends. A thing like that kind of raises red flags.
As amusing as I find your strawman argument, you once again failed to give a viewing of the scans provided; so let me again help you pay attention to crucial details. "Martians who could only read minds but not be read by other Martians.... Fix them all--so they could be like the rest of us. No secrets."Green Martians have standard links with one another. This is consistent with previous writing on the subject when dealing with how telepathy impacted Martian society. Even were you to conclude this to be tangential to the matter of D'kay's penetration into J'onn's mind, you need to develop a better argument for it than simply choosing to be willfully ignorant of it when evidential criteria was presented. Your own scans validate my point to a further extent as J'onn and D'kay had no secrets with one another. They saw straight through each other from the start, and that was the point. That was how Martian minds were in the first place. To top that off, D'kay discerned that J'onn's intent towards her was not as disinterested as he intended to show. His disposition submitted differently than his real intent, which was more dual than determined. As I said, green Martian minds are typically synchronized, and the Manhunter was conflicted in his choice of progression in that situation. "We both know you're lying to yourself."And by the way, the first two scans in your set are of the White Lantern entity affecting J'onn, not D'kay.
Yes he did, and it traumatized him and fried his brain. Lex was under the influence of mageddons programming. And so was superman. Did Martian help him too? Kyle chastising lex luthor is what freed lex luthor. Even before The Martian attempted TP links Luthor was telling them he was being controlled. And as John attempted to free him he froze and was told to get out of his mind but remained frozen. That is until luthor broke free and The martian passed out. Kyle will himself break mageddons control over him with no help from the martian. I didnt undersell a feat. The feat isnt a feat. Then later, superman is captured and they need to enter his mind. While MM is stating how theyre doomed it was BATMAN who talked him into using his mind to contact Clark since MM was being a whiny lil b word about it. And when he started Bruce was still getting mind raped meaning he pretty much failed at protecting him. But he woke up luthor?
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Hmm? So Kyle freed Luthor from Mageddon's control without the intervention of the Manhunter? Out of sheer curiosity, what is it exactly that you think the Martian is doing there? He says outright that he needs to merge his mind with Lex's and is warned to be careful when proceeding. He exerts effort to help Luthor. So what is he doing there if Kyle alone was needed? Your point makes no sense within context or even the artwork solely. And J'onn never passed out. He was perfectly conscious and informed the others that Mageddon had arrived. Since you still need help: Tell me, Spike: how do you speak while you're passed out?And what exactly are your scans supposed to prove? That J'onn was hesitant to reenter Mageddon's mind field and Superman's mind after he already succeeded in that regard the first time? That Batman was exposed to Mageddon's mind field for a brief instant and then was shielded from it? Come on, now. You're making my case for me.
He entered the spectres mind once. And the spectre allowed it.
Twice: Read, Spike.And you continue claiming that Spectre allowed the Manhunter inside his mind, yet in none of these instances is that stated. With that in mind, would you care to tell me why you went off on this ad hominem rant about me being a liar?
In sould war Spectre was knocked out from being mind raped by the trans. And the martian entered the mind of an already "mind raped by someone much more powerful than" Spectre's mind. Does anyone know why Silver here didnt bother posting the next page? It's because well ill just show you
Yes thats the martian getting mind raped by the guy who mind raped the spectre. The martian then needed aquamans help getting out of spectres mind. So if you want to count the martian being inside the unconscious spectres mind for a split second before being mind raped. Then go for it.
LOL. The Trans is not a "guy," Spike. I neglected to post the next page because it was irrelevant to my point. My point was that the Martian tapped into Spectre's mind; I made no mention about the aftereffects, especially in circumstances like this where Spectre's mind is filled with abstract entities representing consciousness itself.
He did not resist the martian a single bit.
Ah, so this is what you were basing that whole conjectural nonsense about Spectre "allowing" him inside his mind on? The fact that he failed to resist it? Let's kindly desist with the distortions now. Nowhere was it mentioned that Spectre "allowed" anything. He followed the Manhunter after the latter chose to take them to a mental realm in order to make a point. That says nothing about his allegedly choosing not to resist anything. When J'onn delved into Spectre's mind, Hal's own narration is that J'onn came in easily. You need to show one piece of dialog that substantiates your point. But there is none, because I have read the issue more than once, and Spectre never "allowed" anything to happen.
The one instance i was referring to that you posted, the martian entered the spectres mind and he allowed it. He did not resist the martian a single bit. He even helped the martian as he was mind raped by THE JOKER. Are you incapable of reading your own scans now? it explains why the martian was mind raped inside the jokers head. My fault for saying it was the spectre. Although dont see how this is any better. Again you can clearly see the martian being mind raped in your scans.
It was noted that he was most susceptible due to his psychic sensitivity. Hardly meaningful in any respect you want to apply it.
Can anyone here tell me why i should care John beat someone who beat Dubbilex? Gorilla Grodd? Better Noir? What have they done that telepathically that even deserves mention? Nothing. You're grasping at straws.
If you refuse to even read my post with any level of comprehension, I am not required to refute an unrelated retort.
MM beat a Saturnian after it was exposed to its weakness (motor oil).
...
What? No, seriously, what were you talking about here? Because I was referring to the Manhunter's series during the Rings of Saturn arc where several Saturnians joined to form one. What are you referring to?
Malefic had his telepathy taken away by the council and lived most of his life without it. In fact it was MM who restored it so he could again be weak against fire. So even if what you said wasnt bs he would still be typically less skilled than the martian. Moving on to your bs. That was a memory of Malefic MM was fighting. His brother was long dead. MM was being attacked by pretty much an old memory using his own tp against him.
Interesting fabrication but utterly devoid of substance. The scan I pulled is from Martian Manhunter's solo series, issue #35 (IIRC) during the In My Life story arc. That story told J'onn and Malefic's life on Mars centuries ago. It was not during any present-day DC arc and was by extension not a memory of Malefic but instead the genuine article. At that point, Malefic had lived with his telepathy throughout his entire life and had never had it revoked. It was shortly thereafter that Malefic was convicted and telepathically suppressed, after which he releasted H'ronmeer's Curse to kill the Martians. You seem to have this (intentionally) confused with the Ghosts of Mars arc from JLA: Classified where a remnant of Malefic existed within J'onn's mind. It was the real Malefic, it was a real fight, and J'onn won.
Fenrus again was pretty much MM vs Himself, with fenrus being immune to the fire weakness.
Could have fooled me, given that they had separated as individuals by that point.
JJ defended against Doctor destiny? Ok and? DD doesn't have any telepathy. Again you were saying something about misrepresentations?
Yes, I said that you are given to meaningful misrepresentation in order to mislead people, as this phrase from your post displays very evidently. Whether Destiny's powers are underlying telepathic in nature has no bearing on the fact that J'onn had to defend the JLA's mind from him, does it? Destiny induced a dream state across the entire world. Dreams are respective to the mind. Tell me why making this connection is difficult.
Im much too tired to check if there's something you're not stating about this dimension tp feat. So ill just trump instead. Charles battled DP on "every plane of existence".
Sure, in a fight where he was aided by Jean Grey.
Yeah everyone wants to debate me, until they actually debate me. And then they get owned and get butthurt for a really really really long time. Welcome to the club. The next time you feel like going a round with me leave out synopsis, oh look another accounts and general hostility. Also i can do without the lies. In short you can call me buy whatever nonexistent, past, present or future user name you choose. I'll still prove you to be a liar and you will still get owned. As i was saying. Charles would destroy the martian.
Not sure where this came from. You're the only one who seems to be agitated here, but in any case, you gave me an opportunity to flag you earlier than I expected.
@Silver2467: Such a well thought out argument backed up by excellent scans deserves a round of silent Internet applause. Haven't seen you on here for a while Silver. Nice to see you're back!
EDIT: Damn it doesn't work. That's a bit embarassing
@Job: I'll let Silver respond to your comments. I don't need to defend him or fight his battles. He can do that himself. Plus his knowledge on these things is far greater than my own so I wouldn't be the best guy for the job. And you're one to talk on insults aren't you?
@beatboks1: This shows how people rely on feats too much. It is fact, not opinion that Xavier is the strongest telepath in the marvel universe, but simply becaus e you think they have better feats, you choose them over xavier p.s. they don't have better feats
Sigh. The joker didn't use the stone agaisnt the martian. Is that a better worded for you?
You're backtracking now. Your original argument was that the Philosopher's Stone is inconsequential to the incident because it responds to the user's thoughts, implicating that its use would hold imminence respective to the mind, and then proceeded to claim that it was never used by the Joker. I presented the scans that prove otherwise. Now you say that the Joker never used it against J'onn and that it never increases the user's mental faculties. @Job said:
The philospher stone reacts to anyones thoughts. Holding it does nothing unless you think to use it. And the joker didnt use it. Saying the Martian got into the jokers mind while holding it is like saying he got into your mind while jerking off. Completely irrelevant.
Make up your mind. Is it irrelevant because Joker never used it, resulting in it having no merit in regards to the mind, or is it irrelevant because Joker never used it against the Manhunter, resulting in it not augmenting his mentality? You can't have it both ways, and adjusting your initial assertion to deflect a concession is not enhancing your point.
Did the stone amp the jokers mental abilities in any way shape or form while MM was inside his mind?
You tell me. You were after all the one who maintained that the Philosopher's Stone reacts to a practitioner's thought processes, and because Joker never employed it for his purposes, it made no difference in the event that J'onn controlled and corrected his mind. In this case, your first argument helps mine. The Philosopher's Stone is a universally reality warping artifact, and it is activated in accordance with the thoughts of the person directing it. Under those stipulations, I would hardly call it a stretch to say it would develop obstacles for a telepath, especially considering that Joker mentioned having very destructive ideas (which, along with Joker's applications of the Philosopher's Stone, corresponds well with J'onn's description of his mind being in a storm-like state). Moreover, the Martian did more than simply plant a mental suggestion. He outright eliminated the Joker's insanity. Bringing a mind that demented into line is not something to scoff at.
Im sure you need to to take attention away from the martian stating he couldn't hold the jokers mind for more than a few seconds.
If I wanted to draw attention away from that, I never would have posted the scans in which it happened, would I? Being able to cure the Joker at all is worth mentioning in any respect, particularly in a scenario where Joker is operating a reality altering item.
I never once stated he had problem going inside insane minds. So what are are you talking about?
That was the impression I gained from this: @Job said:
He got the idea to use this on Black Adam because he read Black Adams mind saw all the people he killed and ran away literally crying. Where as Charles casually reads the minds of beings who destroy worlds and are completely insane.
I thought you meant that Xavier has entered insane minds as if J'onn could and/or has not. But if you meant something else, fair enough.
Yeah the joker is no Ego the living Planet.
What does this scan have to do with anything? This is a scan of J'onn probing Mageddon and Superman, but you cited it as if it has to do with the Joker...
Strawman arguments? Are you doing this just to get a rise out of me
No, just stating the obvious. You said the following: @Job said:
The martian didnt allow her to do anything and it wasn't because of some special martian bond. She had already tried murdering Miss martian and John specifically said when they finally meet he would kill her. But for some reason he let her into his mind at the moment he was trying to murder her? Yeah that makes loads of sense.
I said he added to her ability to penetrate his mind because he was conflicted. I used the word "allow," but I (mistakenly) figured you would be able to grasp what I was saying. He never "allowed" anything in the sense that it was a willful choice. As I said, he was conflicted, dually-minded, not that he chose to give her ground. Maybe I was unclear on that; now you know.
Anyone who knows even a little bit about Green Martians knows about the telepathic links they had on mars. I never once refuted it's existence. I refuted your blatant lie that Dkay used it to enter the martians mind.
What? So J'onn and D'kay's minds are linked...but that has nothing to do with J'onn and D'kay's minds being linked? What sense exactly is that supposed to make?
I especially refute you stating he kind wanted it.
And here is that lovely strawman argument I brought up previously. I never said he wanted her to do anything. I said on some level, he contributed to the accessibility in his own mind by extension of his partiality toward D'kay as a green Martian. @Silver2467 said:
D'Kay had access to J'onn's mind because green Martians are automatically mentally joined with one another and because J'onn partially allowed her entrance. He was conflicted about the deaths of Martians and what her appearance could portend for the future of Mars. Once he had been thoroughly fed up with her, he denied her passage into his mind altogether, and she could do nothing about it.
@Silver2467 said:
To top that off, D'kay discerned that J'onn's intent towards her was not as disinterested as he intended to show. His disposition submitted differently than his real intent, which was more dual than determined. As I said, green Martian minds are typically synchronized, and the Manhunter was conflicted in his choice of progression in that situation.
Dkay herself clearly says he wants her dead. but you think he would willing Mind meld with her?
Now this is funny. As I said, I never stated that he would be willing to mind meld with her; I said Martians are automatically in that state. I will point this out for you: @Silver2467 said:
D'Kay had access to J'onn's mind because green Martians are automatically mentally joined with one another
None of your scans mean anything, especially this one:
The martian says he claims of him loving her are nothing more than delusions. Guess that means your delusional by proxy.
I actually should thank you for posting this because it reiterates my point. D'kay states outright that J'onn's rage is battling his love. He is not opposed to the idea of green Martians returning, and D'kay represented that prospect becoming a reality. Hence why he was conflicted about his dealings with D'kay.
You still have provided nothing veraciously supported that conclusively overrules J'onn and D'kay's minds being joined as a result of green Martian's innate links with one another, and as such, I refer you back to my first post on the matter: @Silver2467 said:
D'Kay had access to J'onn's mind because green Martians are automatically mentally joined with one another and because J'onn partially allowed her entrance. He was conflicted about the deaths of Martians and what her appearance could portend for the future of Mars. Once he had been thoroughly fed up with her, he denied her passage into his mind altogether, and she could do nothing about it. With that said, you make this sound as if it was a low showing anyway while simultaneously disregarding circumstances. D'kay was powerful enough that she was accidentally scanning billions of minds, resisted Miss Martian's telepathy, and harmed Miss Martian telepathically. And yet despite that, when J'onn decided to end her ability to TP him, it ended, and he returned the favor by filling her head with the minds of everyone on earth.
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^That just about covers it.
It completely ridiculous that i have to sit here and disprove your just ridiculous claims that Martian Manhunter allowed himself to be Brain washed because he loved a crazy women he was going to murder. To think otherwise makes me ignorant? unbelievable. I'm rubber you're glue. He was only trying to kill her. He was only trying to shut her brain down before she mind raped her. But no he wanted to be mind raped for weeks.
@Silver2467 said:
As amusing as I find your strawman argument, you once again failed to give a viewing of the scans provided; so let me again help you pay attention to crucial details. "Martians who could only read minds but not be read by other Martians.... Fix them all--so they could be like the rest of us. No secrets."Green Martians have standard links with one another. This is consistent with previous writing on the subject when dealing with how telepathy impacted Martian society. Even were you to conclude this to be tangential to the matter of D'kay's penetration into J'onn's mind, you need to develop a better argument for it than simply choosing to be willfully ignorant of it when evidential criteria was presented. Your own scans validate my point to a further extent as J'onn and D'kay had no secrets with one another. They saw straight through each other from the start, and that was the point. That was how Martian minds were in the first place. To top that off, D'kay discerned that J'onn's intent towards her was not as disinterested as he intended to show. His disposition submitted differently than his real intent, which was more dual than determined. As I said, green Martian minds are typically synchronized, and the Manhunter was conflicted in his choice of progression in that situation. "We both know you're lying to yourself."
Nothing else needs to be said about this. I provided proof of my point, you ignored it, I pointed out that you ignored it, you formed a strawman argument...
Moving on.
It looks like hes standing there getting his brain fried and then falling to the ground because of how useless he was against Mageddons power. LOL like are you at any point going to counter with facts? I feel like i'm debating Glenn beck. Yes the martian was there to help. Did he? Not really. The JL already knew Mageddon was coming. Surely JJ found out something more than he's coming right?
So again, your argument is that J'onn stood there and did nothing. His collapsing from the effort of combating the control of a weapon that telepathically exacerbates planets is a low showing now? It is also worth noting that the fact that he showed visible exertion outright proves that he was doing something there. Your point makes no sense within context. I once again refer you to my previous scans: @Silver2467 said:
Yes, he did connect with the mind of Mageddon. But since you brought up Lex Luthor, let's address that showing first. Lex was under the direct influence of Mageddon, a weapon with telepathic control powerful enough to cause entire populations of worlds to enter mass war and destroy themselves as it did against Wonderworld, a planet populated by gods. Mageddon mind controlled Luthor, and the Martian broke Luthor out of Mageddon's control. He circumvented the telepathic hold that Luthor was afflicted with from a weapon that can TP the wills of entire worlds. I have no idea how or why you could possible undersell this feat, but you always find a way.
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Guess not
And this has what to do with J'onn severing a telepathic control over Luthor?
1. Batman was referring to the martian scanning for superman screaming out loud in pain and talking about how all was lost. Not his encounter with luthor.
...Alright? Not really sure where you meant to go with this or what this is even in response to.
Batman was going to completely useless like superman was until The martian Intervened.
You lost me now. See, earlier you said this: Job said:
And when he started Bruce was still getting mind raped meaning he pretty much failed at protecting him.
Spike, please, make up your mind. According to you, did J'onn shield Batman or not? Because yet again, you seem to have forgotten your own argument.
And JJ's brain was literally smoking doing so.
So once again, he shows visible effort. Superman shows visible effort when he attempts to move celestial bodies too. Not really seeing your point.
Now if you're sitting here claiming he helped free luthor, and completely shielded Batman then why didnt he just free superman himself?
Honestly, I have no idea. He did in fact free Luthor from Mageddon's command and did in fact safeguard Batman from an equivalent influence. Why did he not free Superman? Good question. Maybe Superman was simply too far entrenched into the Mageddon's mind field. Maybe proximity to the Mageddon machinery impacts the level of control. Maybe he decided that involving Batman would be more effective than attempting to free Superman himself. I don't really know. All I do know is that for the first time in this entire discussion, you actually raised a good point.
Guy, woman, Cosmic being. It doesn't matter WHAT the trans is, it mind raped Spectre and then the martian. Irrelevant? I'm sorry troll, but it's not. The Spectre was already being mind raped by someone far superior to the Martian. To the point he lost consciousness. How in the world is that irrelevant? Oh its irrelevant because it blows your argument.
No, actually, this is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with my point. I said that J'onn entered Spectre's mind; he did. You attempted to refute this by pointing out that the Trans, which is an integral part of everyone on the JLA because it embodies consciousness altogether and is actually born out of living beings, harmed J'onn when he entered Spectre's mind. So what? So an entity that defines an abstraction that exists in all living beings that Spectre saved the JLA from which is what caused him to be unconscious in the first place somehow equates to "J'onn entering Spectre's mind has no meaning"?
I could mention the fact that Spectre was weakened from the spear of destiny when MM brought them all into the jokers mind.
Stop lying. The instance where the Martian brings the JLA into Joker's mind is from JLA #35. The Spear of Destiny never even appeared in that comic.
To the point that Joker was able to take control of the Spectre's powers. Batman being able to give the spectre pause when he joined minds with them all.
....
Where exactly are you pulling all this information, Spike? Sure, everyone here already knows that you never read the comics in question, but you should at least try not to make that so obvious. Joker never controlled Spectre's powers, and Batman never gave Spectre pause.
Im not lowballing MM gettign into the spectres mind because im just want to be diffcult.
You and I both know this is not true.
It ONCE, and the Spectre allowed it.
And there is still no factual mandate for this interpretation.
Just like when the martian tried to fight for control of the spectre when he joined minds with him, and couldnt do much.
Again, Spike, try not to give away the fact that you never read Soul War.
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Yes, J'onn clearly couldn't do much. That must be why he wrenched dominance over the conglomerate Spectre/JLA body from Batman and then saved them from a Trans attack, right?
Now you can continue not using common sense, but thats not me. The spectre could have took control whenever he wanted to. if the Martian was getting mind raped inside the jokers mind and needed spetres help then what rational reason would anyone with a functioning brain think that the spectre couldn't stop the martian if he wanted to? the same way he stopped all ofthe JL when they joined minds? LOL not meangiful. The martian was mind raped, while the spectre was not, and then helped the martian. But for some reason he was there against his will? He couldnt stop the martian? Sure. Spamming pictures and insulting people doesn't make you right. Your not using facts, you're making assumptions . Learn the difference. I don't need dialogue to to prove my point. You just dialogue to try and say The Martian wanted to be mind raped by Dkay. That he wanted to be imprisoned inside his own mind for weeks. I have a thing called common sense. Try using it sometimes.
Hmm, do I even have to respond to this? All of it is one huge misrepresentation. J'onn brought Spectre to the astral plane. Nowhere was it mentioned that Spectre allowed it (he never even anticipated it; how could he then allow it?).
Charles Xavier was the one fighting Cosmic beings after people like Jean Grey , Silver surfer, Doctor Strange, and Moondragon with the soul gem got mind raped. When entire Galaxies were being mind raped, People turned to Charles Xaviers telepathy. He didnt get mind raped and need an Aquaman type character to help him out.
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What is this supposed to prove? You showed Xavier in a telepathic battle wherein he was assisted by others. So what?
Im refering to one of the earlier battles the martian had with Jemm. The cabal let Martian into their heads to set a trap. He was saved by Jemm and some chick named clarissa or something. Is the part where i say you purposely lied and misrepresented facts?
That was what I was referring to as well, and yes, you misrepresented facts. First off, J'onn was not fighting Jemm there. Second, J'onn was on the astral plane fighting five Saturnians, and no, they did not set the trap. He set the trap for them. Then Jemm and his soon-to-be-wife aided him. I said J'onn held his own against four of five Saturnians. He did. So what was your point?
Devoid of substance? What a perfect way to describe every thing you've said in this thread. Right i purposely got two story archs mixed up featuring the same two characters.. Thank you for exposing me. So instead of fighting a ghost, he fought someone with next to zero telepathic feats. Damn me and my lying, taking all that time to write about melfric when i could have just added him to the next to zero feats list with the other names you've listed. So Congratulations to JJ for beating someone with next to no impressive telepathic feats.
Malefic actually did have a few telepathic feats, such as telepathically traumatizing other Martians or, if memory serves, affecting the JLA telepathically. But, yes, your point was still devoid of substance. You claimed J'onn never fought the real Malefic; he did.
Well its not really hard to fool a fool so there ya go. Yes he got a body and? It was JJ's body. The Martian has split himself before. I dont know why you're wasting your time with this argument. It was still The martians telepathic abilities, and he got a body thanks to the Martian ability to regenerate. But hey i'm only using common sense What do i know?
I said they had been separated as individuals, but here, you of course misconstrue that to mean separated bodily. While that is true, they had been individual entities for a long while by that point. J'onn still broke out of the mental constraints of a planetary telepath. And I will be waiting for scans that prove regeneration was vital to anything pertaining to their separation.
Funny I dont recall the martian being alone when he tried to communicate with a Mageddon controlled superman.
LOL @ this. Are you seriously analogizing Jean withholding the Phoenix to J'onn creating a mental link between Batman and Superman?
Not really sure this even conveys that meaning. Fighting on separate planes of existence is how telepaths engage one another. They never fight on a material plane; they fight on various telepathic planes. This is not the same J'onn's telepathy literally transcending physical dimensions to locate Flash.
If you werent butthurt you wouldnt be here tossing out insults every sentance and acting like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm too old for petty internet drama. So if you insist on acting like a child then thats your prerogative. But dont think for one second that im even slightly bothered by you and your antics. I am however a man of limited patience. And since you clearly have no argument, or feats that put the Martian above Charles, i see no reason to continue this "rapport". If people want to be taken in by you and your post because you post a bunch of pretty pictures regardless of context and them being complete fabrications, thats fine. Charles beats Manhunter, and he clears the list. Feel free to repeat yourself, but as far as i'm concerned. We're done here.
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