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#51 Posted by Crunch5481 (972 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon said:

@emmafrostxmen: No metal can withstand a nuke

You would be surprised, as I am about this board's general ignorence regarding this matter.

First, nukes are "high explosive" kind of damage, which is pretty the opposite of "armor-piercing". You see, armored targets, like those old warships on the Bikini Atoll tests which had like an average of 2" of metal armor, were pretty much nearly intact after the explosion. When you want to bust an armored target, AP ordnance are the thing. Nukes can do nothing against a bunker that you would build in your backyard.

Second, the nuke that both Supes and Doomsday exploded in space - you know that atoms are necessary to provoke the chain reaction known as nuclear fission, right? Well, there are no atoms in space.

Loading Video...

Doomsday is way over-rated.

BAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHA

What are you talking about??? Those ships were in tatters dude despite the fact that they were not even close to the epicenter of the blast considering the initial mushroom didn't even engulf them. Nukes will absolutely annihilate a bunker in your background if it is anywhere close. Superman and Doomsday were literally hit directly with the nuke.

You clearly do not know enough about nukes to be talking like this... The chain reaction you speak of (nuclear fission) is self-contained in the bomb. It does not require anything outside of the bomb itself. The nuclear fission is a chain reaction of uranium or plutonium atoms (located within the bomb core) being split.

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#52 Edited by death4bunnies (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

@crunch5481:

Your wrong, @nucleon is right.

https://history.nasa.gov/conghand/nuclear.htm

The effects of the Nuke are way different in space; tho I think DD and Superman were in low earth orbit, not a vacuum.

Also there is definitely a difference between piercing damage/durability and explosive radiation type damage/durability; and thats what we are talking about here. @emmafrostxmen was suggesting that WWs sword was greater or equal to a nuke, its not. @emmafrostxmen was also suggesting that because a no metal could stand up to a nuke, this somehow translates to, WWs sword must be magical. It does not, also id argue that some metals (especially fictional metals, that I get to choose the thickness of) could stand up to a nuke.

I believe WW sword has about the same feats as atlantean steel. It can cut a superpowered being that tanked some level of regular metals. For Aquaman it was a regular knife that bent, then atlantean steel that peirced. For DD it was a 20mm gatling that had no effect, then Dianas sword that cut. Im not comfortable putting DDs piercing durability much above 20mm.

On topic Hulk+ large Axe > 20mm rounds.

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#53 Edited by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

As of infinity war? 1. All that's needed.

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#54 Posted by AllHellKingDox (263 posts) - - Show Bio

WW sword only failed against wolf's armor which was only pierced by aqua trident 2 weapons in the dceu that are flat i said to pierce krpytonians. Hulk piercing him with anything in the mcu metal wise is laughable.

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#55 Posted by cooljammy18 (2347 posts) - - Show Bio

Many. Not surprised at the Hulk wank either.

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#56 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

More than 1 I know that.

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#57 Posted by Mister_Surreal (10342 posts) - - Show Bio

If they can’t kill him permanently it wouldn’t matter how many Hulks there are.

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#58 Posted by Stormdriven (17897 posts) - - Show Bio
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#59 Posted by death4bunnies (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal:

A weapon like WWs sword could decapitate DD. This version of DD doesn't have the feats to suggest he could regenerate from that type of damage.

I think the argument is, can Hulk with an axe cut DD like Diana did?

Id say yes, but it would take multiple hulks to get a clean shot at max power to the neck.

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#60 Posted by Mister_Surreal (10342 posts) - - Show Bio

@death4bunnies: Blunt force attacks aren’t the same as piercing attacks. All they can do is beat him to a pulp, which he would come back from. I do however agree that it could in be done with a sharp material and removing his head from his body. I doubt that the Hulks would be smart enough to do it though.

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#61 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#62 Posted by death4bunnies (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal:

Op says the hulks have the giant Axe he used in the gladiator arena. That is a slashing attack. Also hulk had at least some training with the axe, so im not sure they be to dumb to eventually attack the neck.

So the argument is still can Hulks cut DD with a Axe in a similar manner as Diana did?

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#63 Posted by Mister_Surreal (10342 posts) - - Show Bio

@death4bunnies: Oh, if they use their axes corretctly then it should tak about 4.

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#64 Posted by death4bunnies (1145 posts) - - Show Bio
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#65 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8133 posts) - - Show Bio

@tensor said:
@amcu said:

Hulk can't really hurt Doomsday so its not a calculus of how many it would take. Hulk is just outclassed.

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#66 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1429 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they both really couldn't do much to permanently hurt each other. I mean this will just become and endless battle with no clear end. Though the fact that Hulk can can pierce, gives him a little edge since doomsday is weak to piercing or slicing. Otherwise if its just blunt force they can't put each other down

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#67 Posted by Supermanthor (18992 posts) - - Show Bio

1 billion

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#68 Posted by Thatoneguy2958 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperialbuttlicker: except nothing stated ww sword was magical in any instance so, like I said, DD gets cleaved in half.

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#69 Posted by jagernutt (16346 posts) - - Show Bio
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#70 Posted by Thatoneguy2958 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

Still only 1

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#71 Posted by ourmanuel (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
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#72 Posted by imperialbuttlicker (231 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperialbuttlicker: except nothing stated ww sword was magical in any instance so, like I said, DD gets cleaved in half.

Did you see the Wonder Woman film?

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#73 Posted by Thatoneguy2958 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperialbuttlicker: did you? Did you read the replies on here? Nothing special or magical about the sword. Literally. End of story.

So yeah, DD gets cleaved in half by 1 hulk all rounds end of story.

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#74 Posted by imperialbuttlicker (231 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperialbuttlicker: did you? Did you read the replies on here? Nothing special or magical about the sword. Literally. End of story.

So yeah, DD gets cleaved in half by 1 hulk all rounds end of story.

The fact that Amazons are mythical humans created by Zeus and their weapons are, It's safe to say that it's magical.

Oh and Diana's sword has been capable of cutting down a car and huge bricks, show me a feat of Hulk's axe that is capable of doing so

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#75 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (11231 posts) - - Show Bio

Lots of Hulks. Let's just say the Gladiator Arena doesn't have the capacity to hold the amount of Hulks needed to overcome Doomsday. And LOL at the axe cutting Doomsday, it'd shatter into a million pieces on his skin.

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#76 Posted by Supermanthor (18992 posts) - - Show Bio

Lots of Hulks. Let's just say the Gladiator Arena doesn't have the capacity to hold the amount of Hulks needed to overcome Doomsday. And LOL at the axe cutting Doomsday, it'd shatter into a million pieces on his skin.

you i pretty much think that dceu doosmday can one shot mcu hulk on his best day

OT: above 100

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#77 Posted by Nucleon (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@death4bunnies: Oh, if they use their axes corretctly then it should tak about 4.

Why four? A single WW was giving Doomsday a hard time.

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#78 Edited by DammeFavour (8339 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol....every sharp weapon equal Diana's sword. The axe is doing nothing to doomsday, it would probably shatter on his skin if it's struck too hard. Diana's sword is made of metal strong and durable enough to not deform going through someone that resisted a nuke, nothing generic about that. Steppenwolf armor tanking it just means it's molecular integrity is better than doomsday's. The sword in the ww movie is a completely different one that is probably generic

OT: it doesn't really matter the amount. They have no way to hurt him and are not durable enough to survive him

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#79 Edited by Nucleon (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperialbuttlicker said:
@thatoneguy2958 said:

@imperialbuttlicker: did you? Did you read the replies on here? Nothing special or magical about the sword. Literally. End of story.

So yeah, DD gets cleaved in half by 1 hulk all rounds end of story.

The fact that Amazons are mythical humans created by Zeus and their weapons are, It's safe to say that it's magical.

Oh and Diana's sword has been capable of cutting down a car and huge bricks, show me a feat of Hulk's axe that is capable of doing so

Cutting cars and bricks? Ha ha ha - Cap can do it with his shield. That's the Hulk we have here - the Hulk with a big freakin' AX. Cars, bricks and 30mm rounds, really ??? That's rather pathetic isn't it?

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#80 Posted by Thatoneguy2958 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperialbuttlicker: oh my. It's safe to assume (make an ass out of yourself) that the weapon is automatically magical. And we can also assume cause I'm Irish I shoot rainbows outta my arse and pots of gold are always to be found in em and I can do a jig. Right. Assume away ya ass.

Meanwhile, I'll just go by the fact that it wasn't stated anything there's anything special about the sword so, hey, there's nothing special. Easy as pie. Logic. Gotta love it.

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#81 Posted by Thatoneguy2958 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

Still just 1 hulk cleaving dd in half.

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#82 Edited by Nucleon (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour said:

Lol....every sharp weapon equal Diana's sword. The axe is doing nothing to doomsday, it would probably shatter on his skin if it's struck too hard. Diana's sword is made of metal strong and durable enough to not deform going through someone that resisted a nuke, nothing generic about that. Steppenwolf armor tanking it just means it's molecular integrity is better than doomsday's. The sword in the ww movie is a completely different one that is probably generic

OT: it doesn't really matter the amount. They have no way to hurt him and are not durable enough to survive him

These weapons were from Sakarian tech and strong enough not to get bent or blunted-out even when used in harsh combat conditions by such powerhouses as Thor and the Hulk, whereas Diana's swords failed to affect 2 bosses out of three. Funny thing is - the only one it affected was, precisely, Doomsday, who's standing right here.

So I don't see what the problem is. One Hulk, one hit.

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#83 Edited by DammeFavour (8339 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon: no one cares where they're from just the feats associated with them. Diana's sword actually has feats, the axe is literally featless, it didn't do any damage to anyone visible as durable as doomsday.

Diana only used the sword against 2 people, it's a different sword she used on ares. Plus we literally see thor's sword bend when hulk hit it while diana's sword remained intact when doomsday hit it. Just because it's from a more advanced civilization does not make the metal stronger. We see asgardian metal get damaged from a shotgun blast in AoS.

Plus you actually think 1 hulk is actually going to do anything when Diana and superman couldn't?

The stat difference alone is massive

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#84 Posted by dcuwins (348 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

uhmm

multiple times in the official canon mos novel states that kryptonians are invulnerable. the same writer wrote the mos screenplay.

in the avengers it was heavily implied all theaverngers would have died from the low yield nuke.

that low yield nuke was detonated in space and it destroyed the mother ships and the chitari whales. neither hulk or thor ever broke through chitari metal by blunt force

Loading Video...

doomsday durability>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>hulk/thor

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#85 Edited by Mister_Surreal (10342 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon: Because Hulk is slow a heck and is a much bigger target. There is also that fact that the axe has no feats to be anywhere on the level of Wonder Woman’s sword.

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#86 Posted by Crunch5481 (972 posts) - - Show Bio

@death4bunnies:

No, I’m not wrong. Nothing I said was wrong. I never said that Nukes had the same affect in space as they do in an atmosphere. What Nucleon was claiming was that the chain reaction that causes the explosion couldn’t happen in space which is flat out false and I explained why. You’re talking about an entirely different property.

So you think that WW’s sword isn’t magical, and that it is equal to Atlantian Steel, which is also isn’t magical? Do you really believe Atlantian Steel isn’t magical or mystical in nature?? Aquamans trident let him control water to an extent, it very very clearly has a mystical/magical nature. The spinning move at the end of Aquaman or in the tunnel in Justice Leaghe where he slowed the water down. You can’t do that with just super strong steel, that’s magic at work. Then with WW’s sword, we have examples of it cutting through solid rock with utter ease as well as a car, and after both the sword glowed bright. Are WW’s bracelets not magical according to you? Of course they are, super strong metal wouldn’t just do that. Are you gonna tell me her lasso isn’t magical? It literally forces peope to tell the truth how much more magical could you get. We can say with 100% fact that WW has magical gear with the lasso and bracelet now why wouldn’t her sword be imbued magically?

Piercing is just pressure applied to a small area. The nuke applied enormous pressure but to his entire body, it would rip apart anything at point blank range like Doomsday was. It didn’t even scratch him, then he fell and created a massive crater and explosion when he hit the ground which again more pressure which would decimate most Earthly things but again no scratch. The only thing to pierce him is WW’s sword so either WW was able to apply more pressure with her sword than the Nuke did to any given spot on DD or WW’s sword is magical/mystical in nature (as it has always been for her).

People still bleed and get cuts from blunt force, it happens all the time. Watch an MMA fight, they don’t use sharp objects yet the get plenty of cuts. You don’t need to be exposed to a sharp object to gauge piercing resistance.

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#87 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (11231 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour: Not to mention, in order for him to engage Doomsday he'd have to get closer, which means he'd be hit by this at point blank:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Already made a case for Doomsday stomping the Hulk, here.

He gets reduced into green ash.

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#88 Posted by Nucleon (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon: no one cares where they're from just the feats associated with them. Diana's sword actually has feats, the axe is literally featless, it didn't do any damage to anyone visible as durable as doomsday.

Diana only used the sword against 2 people, it's a different sword she used on ares. Plus we literally see thor's sword bend when hulk hit it while diana's sword remained intact when doomsday hit it. Just because it's from a more advanced civilization does not make the metal stronger. We see asgardian metal get damaged from a shotgun blast in AoS.

Plus you actually think 1 hulk is actually going to do anything when Diana and superman couldn't?

The stat difference alone is massive

Wonder Woman alone did better vs Doomsday than the Dick. In fact, Superman only made DD more powerful, many times.

WW's weaponry has no more or no less feats than the Hulk's impediments on Sakar. There wasn't a line in all DCEU movies that tells us her swords are any special in any way.

And, you bet the stat difference between Hulk and WW is massive. That's actually an understatement.

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#89 Posted by Nucleon (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@dcuwins: multiple times in the official canon mos novel states that kryptonians are invulnerable. the same writer wrote the mos screenplay.

So how did Zod died? Kryptonians are not invulnerable - an average of two die in every movie Supes' in.

in the avengers it was heavily implied all theaverngers would have died from the low yield nuke.

Huh?

that low yield nuke was detonated in space and it destroyed the mother ships and the chitari whales. neither hulk or thor ever broke through chitari metal by blunt force

First, the Hulk tore a piece of chitauri armor to kill the Leviathan that carried it with it. Second - you don't know if the nuke was detonated in space - as far as we're concerned it could have simply been an alien environment. Many people have been seen talking in that "space".

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#90 Posted by Nucleon (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal: Because Hulk is slow a heck

No, he is not. He's even fast as hell, reaction-wise. On average he is even faster than WW, whose "time stopping" switch she never could find in JL.

and is a much bigger target.

The Hulk and Doomsday are more or less about the same size.

There is also that fact that the axe has no feats to be anywhere on the level of Wonder Woman’s sword.

Once again, WW's sword record is piss-poor; One boss out of three it affected, and that one boss it affected is, precisely, the very Doomsday that's here. The hammer Thor used in the Sakar arena easily equal that "feat", so I guess the axe's pretty much of the same nature.

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#91 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon: What are you talking about? Wonder Woman is much faster than Hulk. She's always been much faster than Hulk. And her sword has feats of cutting a Kryptonian capable of tanking a nuke and cutting into New God armament, smashing Steppenwolf's axe and cutting into his armor. A fodder Sakaran hammer does not compare to that. That argument is laughable af.

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#92 Edited by Mister_Surreal (10342 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman: Don’t waste your time getting into an arguemnt with him. The bias is strong with this one.

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#93 Posted by Saxz (173 posts) - - Show Bio

R1-probably 2

R2-LOL Nope

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#94 Posted by Nucleon (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman: What are you talking about? Wonder Woman is much faster than Hulk. She's always been much faster than Hulk.

No - Sorry, that's just hype. WW have normal speed (like we saw in JL). What she's got is the occasional, short burst of speed here and there, mostly when she fights mooks.

On the other hand the Hulk is fast at all times right there, on the screen - no slomo sht - in his every appearances. He can can catch a point-blank seat that surpised him. He can strike with incredible precision and timing to a Veronica module behind him. The Hulk not only is fast, he's damn fast.

WW wasn't even able to hit her bracers before Supes stopped her. Come on.

And her sword has feats of cutting a Kryptonian capable of tanking a nuke and cutting into New God armament, smashing Steppenwolf's axe and cutting into his armor. A fodder Sakaran hammer does not compare to that. That argument is laughable af.

First, a nuke is no piercing attack - to the contrary. Those ships in the Bikini Atoll tests were relatively intact. And yeah, they were precisely at ground zero (that was an underwater nuke).

Second, Steppenwolf's axe, that blunted-out thing? It is featless, no even able to cut an amazon (that a WWI German soldier can kill). Sakar's weaponry have more feats.

Three, WW's sword failed to cut Steppenwolf, who was ridiculed by Superman in a matter of seconds.

Finally - WW's sword has a negative record, since it didn't cut two bosses of of three. Like Steppenwolf's axe it is a prop. It is worth precisely schnitz.

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#95 Posted by death4bunnies (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

@crunch5481:

Do you think Mantas atlantean arm blade was magical? How about the Weapon Vulku trained Aquaman with, it could do the water shield thing, I think they refer to it as a technique.

I do think the Tridents have some magic power, explicitly, the trident that grants mastery over the ocean creatures.

As to Dianas bracers, no I dont think they are magic. I dont think any amazon could put them on, and replicate. I can give you a few reasons why I believe this. A WW isn't the only amazon to wear bracers, B the amazons seemed surprised when Diana first did a bracelet clash, if they knew the bracers were magic they would of been less surprised. Most importantly it was made clear in her stand alone movie that her powers came from her. Hulks Axe broke rock, is it magic? The glowing after the sword cuts could just be a visual effect trying to show friction heat.

I happen to think the lasso is one of the few true uses of magic.

Again, her sword may be magic, but as there is no solid confirmation, I only feel comfortable judging it by its feats.

By feats WWs sword is not much above hulks Axe in feats. Hulks axe was breaking to stone ground with ease on sakkar.

You also seem to be real confused about explosive damage and piercing damage. No WWs sword did not have to exert more force than a nuke or be magical. A lot of characters can take loads of energy damage and not great piercing, and visa versa. Comic WW can tank city block size explosions but not any caliber of bullet.

Watch MMA fight to see people get cut by blunt force? You do realize you proved my point dont you? The blunt force durability of my face is above the piercing durability of my face, you get that right. As in with a knife it would take substantially less force to cut my skin than blunt force.

Also @nucleon was completely right, the fission goes beyond the core, as long as there are atoms to split. Not just the blast wave from displaced air, but in a vacuum the action of fission is substantially less violent in space.

To recap.

You haven't proved WW sword was magic.

You haven't provided one sword feat that Hulk couldn't replicate with his axe.

You seem to suggest punch cut = knife cut, so WW sword = nuke. This is non-sense .

WW sword has not been confirmed to be magical. DD had his arm lopped off by a weaker opponent than hulk, with a slightly better weapon, by feats.

Maybe DD would regenerate from getting his head chopped off, but he never shown the ability to regen from that serious of a wound.

4-5 Hulks should be able to do it.

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#96 Posted by zill0678 (2389 posts) - - Show Bio
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#97 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

No - Sorry, that's just hype. WW have normal speed (like we saw in JL). What she's got is the occasional, short burst of speed here and there, mostly when she fights mooks.

On the other hand the Hulk is fast at all times right there, on the screen - no slomo sht - in his every appearances. He can can catch a point-blank seat that surpised him. He can strike with incredible precision and timing to a Veronica module behind him. The Hulk not only is fast, he's damn fast.

But not faster than Wonder Woman.

No Caption Provided

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hulk has never done anything like that. And Wonder Woman has far more numerous and better speed and reaction feats than Hulk, so she is faster on the screen.

WW wasn't even able to hit her bracers before Supes stopped her. Come on.

Because Superman is faster? Superman is really fast. Faster than Hulk too. So that's not really a poor showing.

First, a nuke is no piercing attack - to the contrary. Those ships in the Bikini Atoll tests were relatively intact. And yeah, they were precisely at ground zero (that was an underwater nuke).

A nuke could be considered a piercing attack on a molecular level. In comicbook logic perhaps not, but there was no suggestion Doomsday had split durability. He's just that durable.

Second, Steppenwolf's axe, that blunted-out thing? It is featless, no even able to cut an amazon (that a WWI German soldier can kill). Sakar's weaponry have more feats.

The electroaxe is actually pretty powerful as shown in the flashback sequence and numerous times throughout JL. It was more feats and better feats than Sakar's weaponry, I'm not sure where you're getting that from? I don't believe they have any feats at all to my recollection.

Three, WW's sword failed to cut Steppenwolf, who was ridiculed by Superman in a matter of seconds.

It didn't fail to cut him, it cut through his armor before she broke his axe. You can see blood where she sliced him and he's holding his side. So she did cut him, and the only times she failed was because she was off balance and couldn't put power behind it. That's no low showing for her sword, which is indeed magic.

Finally - WW's sword has a negative record, since it didn't cut two bosses of of three. Like Steppenwolf's axe it is a prop. It is worth precisely schnitz.

That's just incorrect as I already explained. The Sword of Athena has never failed to cut something, if I'm assuming you're also confusing the sword she used on Ares as that sword, which it is not. That was a standard Amazon sword as far as I know.

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#98 Edited by death4bunnies (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman:

I dont think hulk is as fast as WW, but I dont think he needs to be to hit DD with his axe.

WWs sword has not been confirmed to be magic. If you can explain to me why you think its magic, maybe we'll get somewhere.

Hulks Axe has similar feats, if you rewatch the Arena fight on Sakarr hulk is breaking stone and ripping metal effortlessly with hat axe.

Beyond cutting DD (which is what we are debating) WWs best sword feats are cutting a car in half, and cutting a small bolder in half. Both things that could be replicated by Hulk with the Axe.

Because there is no real gap in the feats both weapons have performed im forced to believe they are about equal.

NO nukes are not piercing attacks. Those ships Nucleon showed would get wrecked by a bunker buster. Ordinance is specifically made to beat 'bunkers' capable of withstanding nukes, they generally rely on focused impact, rather than explosives. This is one way you can see the difference between a piercing attack and an explosive attack.

The sword of Athena has definitely failed to cut steppenwolf, even if it did do so towards the end of the movie. Its limits seem to be near apocalyptian tech.

On topic 4-5 hulks with giant axes should be able to put DD down.

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#99 Posted by tethadam (243 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Hulk couldve taken the nuke without that much damage that Doomsday got.

1 Serious Hulk out for the kill.

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#100 Posted by Aqualion0 (1743 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk adapts and one-shots.