How many hits from Mcu Ironfist to defeat Mcu Super Soldier level Character?

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werkudoro

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Poll How many hits from Mcu Ironfist to defeat Mcu Super Soldier level Character? (72 votes)

1 56%
2 or more 42%

In a straight up fight?

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HeroUp2112

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I'm thinking one direct hit would probably do the job. The Iron Fist strike is the Truth.

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mtuske

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#3  Edited By mtuske

IF is the most overrated thing in the history of the universe and all pre existing universes before they went thru the great galactic rip only to be reborn thru another big bang.

On topic most likely over 4

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FirestormFate1919

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If he goes all-out, only 1.

If it's his standard chi hit, maybe 3-4.

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mtuske

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@firestormfate1919: Based on the fact that he beat up a floor? SS have taken beatings far worse than that.

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FirestormFate1919

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#6  Edited By FirestormFate1919

@mtuske: Nah, that's not his best feat though. This is.

No Caption Provided

No way Cap or Bucky tank that.

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mtuske

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#7  Edited By mtuske

@firestormfate1919: Yup. They'd fly about 30 feet say damn that really hurt than get up. Look at IM punches vs normal terrorist. They went 50 ft in the air and smashed into buildings. WS took dozens of those regained his feet and started ripping out IM chest. Cap has been blown off a bridge thru a bus amd been punched by Ultron repeatadly who accidentally punched off a guys arm. That punch would kill us but stagger a person like WS, Cap, Slade or BP.

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buildhare

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@firestormfate1919:

The hit that winded Cap in avengers did pretty much exactly the same thing to a bank door so yes they can take that hit.

On topic a Iron Fist going all out could one shot.

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mtuske

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@buildhare: That was IF going all out unless u have proof he pulled his punch on an inanimate object.

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buildhare

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@mtuske:

It really wasn't, blowing out a floor of a skyscraper is much better and he didn't really struggle to dish out that hit at all.

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mtuske

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@buildhare: He was the last one to get up lol. 50 year old Harold got up and ran to the roof while Danny who just beat up a floor had to regain his footing and chase the elder fella who was the first up. We have no frame of reference because generally people don't attack the floor.

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comicace3

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#12  Edited By comicace3

Probably one shot going all out.

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buildhare

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@mtuske:

He was the last one to get up lol

The guards and everyone else didn't get back up so I don't know how you figured this.

We have no frame of reference because generally people don't attack the floor.

Compare it to other people then. There are street levellers/low mid tiers who may be able to replicate the showing against concrete/steel door, but none would get close to the same reaction as Danny did if they hit the floor.

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mtuske

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#14  Edited By mtuske

@buildhare: 50 year old Harold and others got up 1st or same time. Feat is meaningless as it blew out windows not the floor. Floor was less impressive than the steel door.He bent the frame on the steel door.

Floor gets blown out of proportion because it went in slow mo

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HeroUp2112

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@mtuske said:

@firestormfate1919: Yup. They'd fly about 30 feet say damn that really hurt than get up. Look at IM punches vs normal terrorist. They went 50 ft in the air and smashed into buildings. WS took dozens of those regained his feet and started ripping out IM chest. Cap has been blown off a bridge thru a bus amd been punched by Ultron repeatadly who accidentally punched off a guys arm. That punch would kill us but stagger a person like WS, Cap, Slade or BP.

There's no way to PROVE that one solid, full force punch would knock them out, however consider this: Focusing that much force into a two to four inch space then transferring it into the Super Soldier's head or chest is going to be a completely different thing. We'll probably disagree but I'm of the opinion that Iron Man's punches aren't as powerful as Iron Fists's full powered Chi punch. Or at least I haven't seen evidence of it.

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xtreme1

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With a max power chi punch, I'll say one hit.

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comicace3

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@mtuske said:

@buildhare: 50 year old Harold and others got up 1st or same time. Feat is meaningless as it blew out windows not the floor. Floor was less impressive than the steel door.He bent the frame on the steel door.

Why does age matter? 50 years old meachum certainly didn't feel fifty due to the Hands curse of being revived every time he's killed.

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mtuske

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@heroup2112: When IF punches people 50ft away casually come back. If IM punched a floor it would do more damage. He just doesn't feel the need to beat up floors being a bullet proof over 20 tonner.

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mtuske

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@comicace3: How do you know he didn't feel his age? He never staged that. He just kept coming back the same age.

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comicace3

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@mtuske said:

@comicace3: How do you know he didn't feel his age? He never staged that. He just kept coming back the same age.

For starters he had striking power comparable to a prime pro-boxer when he busted his punching bag. Second he didn't age at all since his battle with cancer becasue after he was resurected I'm pretty sure he was running the company through his son for quite some time. Third he legit said he was immortal. I don't know how make that any clearer.

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mtuske

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#21  Edited By mtuske

@comicace3: No he came back the same age he died. Breaking a bag is not impressive as I've gone thru 3 in the last 2 years and its just my friend and I hutting it. Honestly bags are built like shit. Stop with the prime boxer stuff. He's shown nothing exdept beating up his son.

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Dr_Deplorable

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I accidentally voted for two.. I meant one.

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comicace3

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@mtuske said:

@comicace3: No he came back the same age he died.

So late 40's?

Breaking a bag is not impressive as I've gone thru 3 in the last 2 years and its just my friend and I hutting it.

You sure it wasn't banged up before? I don't know where you're getting your bags but they seem cheap as hell.

Stop with the prime boxer stuff.

Hmmmm...no.

He's shown nothing exdept beating up his son.

And beating up the guy/hurting he was sparring with, and busting the bag, and not being KO'ed by that nasty stab wound when Danny kicked him on the roof

I don't know my mind is a bit groggy. I only finished binge watching the shows like two days ago.

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deactivated-6241fa3a1cff5

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I say one.

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mtuske

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#25  Edited By mtuske

@comicace3: Late 40's or 50's. No Everlast bags are damn durable but they all go to shit after 6-8 months. Good bags too. 70-80lbs. Unless you wear gloves. Harold wasn't wearing globes the knuckles dig in over time.

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Lunacyde

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#26 Lunacyde  Moderator

Probably one shot going all out.

This.

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Eisenfauste

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One Fist to rule them all. He does the fisting in one go.

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CramAndman

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@mtuske said:

@firestormfate1919: Yup. They'd fly about 30 feet say damn that really hurt than get up. Look at IM punches vs normal terrorist. They went 50 ft in the air and smashed into buildings. WS took dozens of those regained his feet and started ripping out IM chest. Cap has been blown off a bridge thru a bus amd been punched by Ultron repeatadly who accidentally punched off a guys arm. That punch would kill us but stagger a person like WS, Cap, Slade or BP.

There's no way to PROVE that one solid, full force punch would knock them out, however consider this: Focusing that much force into a two to four inch space then transferring it into the Super Soldier's head or chest is going to be a completely different thing. We'll probably disagree but I'm of the opinion that Iron Man's punches aren't as powerful as Iron Fists's full powered Chi punch. Or at least I haven't seen evidence of it.

I was just rewatching the Civil War Iron man vs Cap and Bucky scene and in addition to taking a dozen Iron Man punches, Cap also takes a few repulsor-powered punches and a couple of straight-up repulsor blasts. I think we can both agree that Cap can Take IFists 2nd most powerful blow, the one he uses to break the insane asylum door. That punch is probably equivalent to Iron Man's best straight punch, maybe even Iron Man's repulsor-powered punch. The question is, do you think IFist's most powerful shockwave to the ground chi-punch is Equivalent to a straight-up Repulsor blast? If Iron man punched the ground at the same time he released a Repulsor blast would it create the same effect? If not, what about his Uni-beam Chest repulsor blast?

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TorikoWONTDie

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#29  Edited By TorikoWONTDie

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111190794/5321960-4926380475-tSYgG.gif

Cap tanked the above like you or I would being slapped in the face. Danny's door punches are not enough to one shot him. Not after he's taken prolonged beatings from characters who hit 2 or 3 times stronger than crossbine showed there...

Shockwave punch maybe breaks a Cap rib, maybe...Although he has literally never suffered even a sprain from all the pummeling he's taken...But there is no way Danny can kill cap. At best cap is knocked out. Nothing more.

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Gotoucanario

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All of them

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Paytience

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#31  Edited By Paytience

@heroup2112: If he was really able to focus that force into a four inch space, his fist would of went through the door or the floor. The effects we're seeing are the force radiating out from the punch, thus he specifically ISN'T focusing that force into a fist size area.

He is los8ng most of the energy on impact.

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Keenko

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One for Bucky, probably 3 for Steve.

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hulkuberstomp

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@buildhare: Avengers armor and mk 3=/= Civil War armor.

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hulkuberstomp

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Danny at least Knock them out with his chi punch

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buildhare

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Sy8000

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1st hit kills them if they have to just stand there and tank it.

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HeroUp2112

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@heroup2112 said:
@mtuske said:

@firestormfate1919: Yup. They'd fly about 30 feet say damn that really hurt than get up. Look at IM punches vs normal terrorist. They went 50 ft in the air and smashed into buildings. WS took dozens of those regained his feet and started ripping out IM chest. Cap has been blown off a bridge thru a bus amd been punched by Ultron repeatadly who accidentally punched off a guys arm. That punch would kill us but stagger a person like WS, Cap, Slade or BP.

There's no way to PROVE that one solid, full force punch would knock them out, however consider this: Focusing that much force into a two to four inch space then transferring it into the Super Soldier's head or chest is going to be a completely different thing. We'll probably disagree but I'm of the opinion that Iron Man's punches aren't as powerful as Iron Fists's full powered Chi punch. Or at least I haven't seen evidence of it.

I was just rewatching the Civil War Iron man vs Cap and Bucky scene and in addition to taking a dozen Iron Man punches, Cap also takes a few repulsor-powered punches and a couple of straight-up repulsor blasts. I think we can both agree that Cap can Take IFists 2nd most powerful blow, the one he uses to break the insane asylum door. That punch is probably equivalent to Iron Man's best straight punch, maybe even Iron Man's repulsor-powered punch. The question is, do you think IFist's most powerful shockwave to the ground chi-punch is Equivalent to a straight-up Repulsor blast? If Iron man punched the ground at the same time he released a Repulsor blast would it create the same effect? If not, what about his Uni-beam Chest repulsor blast?

The repulsor blast is a good point. If Cap can take a point blank shot from one of THOSE to the chest or head, then yeah I'd imagine he can take a full on shot from The Fist.. I disagree that Iron Fist's "Fist" punch is likely the same as normal suit (although that's highly speculative) Iron Man "straight punch", though it would depend a LOT on which suit, and I'm no expert on those.

As far as the ground punch shock wave...I really don't know.

  • I don't think it would do much of anything to a Super Soldier...it's just not focused enough
  • It MIGHT do the same thing as a similar repulsor punch from Iron Man. I don't COMPLETELY understand the physics but I'd have thought a repulsor blast would probably penetrate and blow a hole in the floor of the building.
  • I don't know enough about the Uni-beam but my GUESS is that it would do the same.
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HeroUp2112

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@heroup2112: If he was really able to focus that force into a four inch space, his fist would of went through the door or the floor. The effects we're seeing are the force radiating out from the punch, thus he specifically ISN'T focusing that force into a fist size area.

He is los8ng most of the energy on impact.

You're a little right here, but mostly off base, however I think some of this is that you're thinking that Danny's fist would be behaving like a flesh and blood fist.

I'll try to break this down so that it doesn't take up a BIG post.

I'm getting the impression that as opposed to the common philosophy that P=Fv, where F is the force of the punch and v is the speed that you're thinking something along the lines of (correct me if I'm wrong) let's just say that only the arm

speed is taken into account, then before impact, the energy of the arm travelling is E=(1/2)mv^2. That is how much work the target has to do to stop the punch. Therefore, the impact force Fi = E/L where L is the displacement before the arm

reaches zero speed. Or something similar

Using either formula, one thing that's being left out is the deformation of the striking surface (Danny's hand). His hand is made of flesh and blood and will deform depending on the durability/deformability of whatever he's striking. Then P will be dispersed not E. However, it will NOT be dispersed at the same rate as a normal punch (as from a boxer, martial artist, etc). It will be TRANSFERED much more efficient as if someone as wearing a set of brass knuckles. Only a set of brass knuckles that (potentially have some sort of supernaturally augmented power behind the punch.

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CramAndman

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#39  Edited By CramAndman
@cramandman said:
@heroup2112 said:
@mtuske said:

@firestormfate1919: Yup. They'd fly about 30 feet say damn that really hurt than get up. Look at IM punches vs normal terrorist. They went 50 ft in the air and smashed into buildings. WS took dozens of those regained his feet and started ripping out IM chest. Cap has been blown off a bridge thru a bus amd been punched by Ultron repeatadly who accidentally punched off a guys arm. That punch would kill us but stagger a person like WS, Cap, Slade or BP.

There's no way to PROVE that one solid, full force punch would knock them out, however consider this: Focusing that much force into a two to four inch space then transferring it into the Super Soldier's head or chest is going to be a completely different thing. We'll probably disagree but I'm of the opinion that Iron Man's punches aren't as powerful as Iron Fists's full powered Chi punch. Or at least I haven't seen evidence of it.

I was just rewatching the Civil War Iron man vs Cap and Bucky scene and in addition to taking a dozen Iron Man punches, Cap also takes a few repulsor-powered punches and a couple of straight-up repulsor blasts. I think we can both agree that Cap can Take IFists 2nd most powerful blow, the one he uses to break the insane asylum door. That punch is probably equivalent to Iron Man's best straight punch, maybe even Iron Man's repulsor-powered punch. The question is, do you think IFist's most powerful shockwave to the ground chi-punch is Equivalent to a straight-up Repulsor blast? If Iron man punched the ground at the same time he released a Repulsor blast would it create the same effect? If not, what about his Uni-beam Chest repulsor blast?

The repulsor blast is a good point. If Cap can take a point blank shot from one of THOSE to the chest or head, then yeah I'd imagine he can take a full on shot from The Fist.. I disagree that Iron Fist's "Fist" punch is likely the same as normal suit (although that's highly speculative) Iron Man "straight punch", though it would depend a LOT on which suit, and I'm no expert on those.

As far as the ground punch shock wave...I really don't know.

  • I don't think it would do much of anything to a Super Soldier...it's just not focused enough
  • It MIGHT do the same thing as a similar repulsor punch from Iron Man. I don't COMPLETELY understand the physics but I'd have thought a repulsor blast would probably penetrate and blow a hole in the floor of the building.
  • I don't know enough about the Uni-beam but my GUESS is that it would do the same.

In Civil War, Cap takes 3 repulsor blasts at point-blank range. They're all to the body and the first two send him flying across the room. The third brings him to his knees. They clearly hurt much more than IM's punches but Cap continues to fight through them. It's unclear what a repulsor blast to the head would do! In addition to possibly KO'ing him, it might blind him.

Here's the last two repulsor blasts(1min-mark), the first one is when Bucky is fighting with him...

Loading Video...

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AlphaQ

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Harold wasn't physically in his fifties, he was physically 41. Danny mentions that he looked the exact same as fifteen years ago.

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HeroUp2112

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@cramandman:

Oh, okay. Those weren't anywhere near full power repulsor blasts though. Seeing as how they did reasonable damage to him I'm of the opinion that (Russo Force or not) a FULL power repulsor blast could potentially punch a hole through Steve.

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CramAndman

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@cramandman:

Oh, okay. Those weren't anywhere near full power repulsor blasts though. Seeing as how they did reasonable damage to him I'm of the opinion that (Russo Force or not) a FULL power repulsor blast could potentially punch a hole through Steve.

I don't think there is such a thing as a half-power repulsor blast. I think all repulsor blasts are the same, it's just the duration of the blast that's different. A focused beam vs a powerful blast. In terms of punching a hole through steve, I'm pretty sure Ironman would need to use a Chest-uni-beam for that. He uses one against WS, to burn his arm off.

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rogueshadow

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#43 rogueshadow  Moderator

If Cap get's hit with one of these:

No Caption Provided

Straight in the jaw, then he is pretty clearly gonna be out of the fight.

If he is one with the Russoforce he catches the fist with his teeth and bites it off.

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HeroUp2112

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@heroup2112 said:

@cramandman:

Oh, okay. Those weren't anywhere near full power repulsor blasts though. Seeing as how they did reasonable damage to him I'm of the opinion that (Russo Force or not) a FULL power repulsor blast could potentially punch a hole through Steve.

I don't think there is such a thing as a half-power repulsor blast. I think all repulsor blasts are the same, it's just the duration of the blast that's different. A focused beam vs a powerful blast. In terms of punching a hole through steve, I'm pretty sure Ironman would need to use a Chest-uni-beam for that. He uses one against WS, to burn his arm off.

I have to disagree here. I have little doubt that Iron Man doesn't have settings for the power level of his blasts. On the other hand, even with your explanation it effectively works out to the same thing, as they're concussive blasts not "burning" blasts per se. This also might be the principal difference between the ruplusor and Uni-beam, though I couldn't say for sure.

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Noone1996

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Probably one shot.

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Paytience

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#46  Edited By Paytience

@heroup2112: This is wrong though...the force of the punch is measured from the ground up. The fist isn't a projectile. It is a pendulum, at the end of a lever, of which the shoulder is the fulcrum, which in turn is accelerated by the torque of the hips, which is a reaction of force being directed towards the ground.

Understanding the energy generated requires knowing the speed of the fist...but in the case we also have chi, which is an unknown energy factor. TRANSFERRING that energy however still REQUIRES momentum, which is itself compouded by mass. The ground force reaction between your feet and the ground can help simulate the momentum of about 3.5x your body mass. (There was an mit study done I believe, I'll try and dig it up and will message it to you. Since you're into the scene a bit more than others here)

However, in order for that mass to have an effect, the arm, shoulder and hips need to be properly aligned, so that the energy being held back by the mass of your target can be pushed forward by the ground force of your own body...if that energy isn't properly alligned to reach the the shoulder, or the feet don't drive with correct timing, then most of the energy is gonna be wasted, either at the elbow, or at the point of impact. That *smack* when hitting pads is an example of wasted energy in the form of sound. You want it to *thud*. (You know that man)

The energy exploding out from the ground when IF punched it...that is all energy not going into the target. It is exactly he same thing as hearing the *smack* when hitting pads.

It means you need to fix something, because the enrgy isn't being driven through.

Having a harder object helps that object RETAIN more energy, and it has a higher gbe, but that doesn't help with the transferrence of said energy, especially when dealing with, like I said, a pendulum.

This effect, having an "Iron" fist so to speak, SHOULD actually make it more likely that his fist penetrates the ground or door, rather than create the area effects we saw.

The explosive force of him hitting the ground can be calced to tell how MUCH energy his chi equivocates to, and what he can generate, but it tells us nothing about what he can actually transfer into a target in a punch. For that, the best reference will always be what effect he has on live, combative opponents.

If the energy was being transferred, we wouldn't of saw the effect we saw. Period.

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deactivated-5a90ca82ccb5f

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Probably one shot.

I have yet to see Iron Fist, what feats does he have to one shot?

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CramAndman

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#48  Edited By CramAndman
@heroup2112 said:
@cramandman said:
@heroup2112 said:

@cramandman:

Oh, okay. Those weren't anywhere near full power repulsor blasts though. Seeing as how they did reasonable damage to him I'm of the opinion that (Russo Force or not) a FULL power repulsor blast could potentially punch a hole through Steve.

I don't think there is such a thing as a half-power repulsor blast. I think all repulsor blasts are the same, it's just the duration of the blast that's different. A focused beam vs a powerful blast. In terms of punching a hole through steve, I'm pretty sure Ironman would need to use a Chest-uni-beam for that. He uses one against WS, to burn his arm off.

I have to disagree here. I have little doubt that Iron Man doesn't have settings for the power level of his blasts. On the other hand, even with your explanation it effectively works out to the same thing, as they're concussive blasts not "burning" blasts per se. This also might be the principal difference between the ruplusor and Uni-beam, though I couldn't say for sure.

I'm trying to use all the Iron Man appearances in all the movies as a guide. He never mentions power level settings for his blasts. The closest thing to a power level in the movies is in reference to his flight capability. In order to hover, he has to use more sustained power than a blast, and in order to fly he has to use more sustained power than to hover, etc. You could deduce that he has different power-levels for his repulsor blasts, but he doesn't vocalize power settings for repulsor blasts. I concluded he activates the repulsor blast by hand movement, opening/closing his hand, and the longer he maintains that pose with his hand the longer the duration of the beam. We've seen what his average repulsor blast can do in the early Iron Man films, they're concussive blasts of energy, similar to IFist's Chi punch, that can put a normal man through a brick wall, blast apart an Iron Man soldier, or knock a super-soldier across the room. Basically, a blast can kill/crush a human, tear apart armor/mechanical creatures, and injure a super-soldier.

The difference between the hand blasts and the uni-beam is one of power output. The chest blasts are far more powerful and can put a hole through an extremis soldier in IM3 or WS's mech-arm in CWAr.

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@heroup2112: This is wrong though...the force of the punch is measured from the ground up. The fist isn't a projectile. It is a pendulum, at the end of a lever, of which the shoulder is the fulcrum, which in turn is accelerated by the torque of the hips, which is a reaction of force being directed towards the ground.

Understanding the energy generated requires knowing the speed of the fist...but in the case we also have chi, which is an unknown energy factor. TRANSFERRING that energy however still REQUIRES momentum, which is itself compouded by mass. The ground force reaction between your feet and the ground can help simulate the momentum of about 3.5x your body mass. (There was an mit study done I believe, I'll try and dig it up and will message it to you. Since you're into the scene a bit more than others here)

However, in order for that mass to have an effect, the arm, shoulder and hips need to be properly aligned, so that the energy being held back by the mass of your target can be pushed forward by the ground force of your own body...if that energy isn't properly alligned to reach the the shoulder, or the feet don't drive with correct timing, then most of the energy is gonna be wasted, either at the elbow, or at the point of impact. That *smack* when hitting pads is an example of wasted energy in the form of sound. You want it to *thud*. (You know that man)

The energy exploding out from the ground when IF punched it...that is all energy not going into the target. It is exactly he same thing as hearing the *smack* when hitting pads.

It means you need to fix something, because the enrgy isn't being driven through.

Having a harder object helps that object RETAIN more energy, and it has a higher gbe, but that doesn't help with the transferrence of said energy, especially when dealing with, like I said, a pendulum.

This effect, having an "Iron" fist so to speak, SHOULD actually make it more likely that his fist penetrates the ground or door, rather than create the area effects we saw.

The explosive force of him hitting the ground can be calced to tell how MUCH energy his chi equivocates to, and what he can generate, but it tells us nothing about what he can actually transfer into a target in a punch. For that, the best reference will always be what effect he has on live, combative opponents.

If the energy was being transferred, we wouldn't of saw the effect we saw. Period.

Oh, you're talking about the energy (or P-Power) in the standard punch formula) being distributed into the floor? I'm talking about the Power being transferred into a Super Soldier's face or chest during Iron Fist's strike. Which, given his level of mastery of committing said strikes within the parameters you've described, would be minimal at best.

The floor strike, however, would be pretty much exactly as you described given the greater surface tension of the materials, thus the greater level of deformity of involved, (the flooring being in sheets buckling, the planks, of plywood, the sheet rock in the walls doing the same, the panes of glass shatter, but the girders having greater density and designed to have greater load bearing strength NOT deforming.)

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Bucky and Slade 1.

Steve 1 or 2.