How long would Vegeta SSj Blue last against Jiren?

He may not get one shotted, but at current power he stands zero chance of even tickling Jiren.

Depends on Jiren because a serious Jiren would one shot him.

I don't agree with any of the given choices. Vegeta has always been durable. While I don't think he can do much to Jiren, I think he can take some hits and keep trying.

With DBZ's track record, Vegeta would get one shotted

But SSB Goku and Hit (who is around SSB) did swing and hit Jiren around. Maybe they didn't cause much damage, but they did make him move and make some expressions. Especially Hit I think imo. Vegeta should be able to do something

Yeah no, i rly love the Vegetable but he gets one-shoted.

He wouldn't

Has Vegeta ever been one shotted?

@apex_pretador: No.

Long enough to win. Too many S-cells now that he fights for his family. He goes old school DB and becomes the first character to finally balance spirit and body perfectly and sons Jiren. Come at me bros.

???

Wouldn't that be considered getting a power up though and no longer be just SSJB Vegeta?

@rr79: No. It's just perfect use of his powers. Honestly...even the s-cells explanation would be as he explained to Black that he wasn't able access the power of the Sayan body on a cellular level. S-Cells make your forms more powerful, but don't grant new transformations. This is why Vegeta fighting for Bulma at jin 2 surpasses jin 3, or how Trunks got so strong jn genki form. Veg is both stronger than Goku at base, and a righteous heart, or fighting for a pure cause, can increase s-cells. Goku has said flat out he doesn't fight for any cause and isn't a hero. He just likes fighting strong guys and ends up doing good stuff in the process.

We actually see evidence that Vegeta's transformations are already stronger than the base stat. SSJ is a 50x multiplier; however Katopesla was fighting even with Base Veg...a 300x amp should of put Katopesla in Jin 3 rangen but Vegeta could stomp it at jin 1. Meaning Vegeta's SSJ transformation is currently 6x more potent than the original multiplier. Basically, SSJB can get a whole lot stronger without requiring a transformation.

But if we're talking about the mind/spirit thing, no that wouldn't be a power up. It's just the way their power works. Tag me again later and I'll expound on that. It goes back early dragonball...Roshi explained it, and ot was touched on again when Ginyu was trying to figure out how Goku's powers work.

For those who don't know what I'm on about: a couple of weeks ago, Toriyama did an interview where he explained that a super sayans power was dependent on the amount of s-cells they have, and that S-cells are developed and increased when sayans fight for pure reasons or are righteous hearted. Becoming a SSJ requires both a high battle power and a pure heart.

Sayans are so naturally combative however, that despite their high battle power, s-cells in any concentration are relatively rare, but can be passed on to children. Which is why Goten and Trunks could become SSJ so early...they were born with s-cells.

So you're welcome, from Toriyama. Scaling in DBS can be made to make sense for ya'll now, and here's a whole new can of worms to go with it.

@paytience: Katopesla’s Ultimate mode has the same strength as his Battle mode and the same speed as his Whirlwind mode. He explained that his strength and speed were both being multiplied this time instead of one or the other. I’m sure Base Vegeta can keep up with someone slow moving even if the have strong hits, hence why he was actually having a good clash with Battle mode Katopesla. When Vegeta goes SSJ against Ultimate mode Katopesla, he proves faster and stronger than Katopesla but there’s no evidence he was suddenly SSJ3 level as a SSJ.

If Jiren is serious ;

And don't forget that KK SSB Goku > SSB Vegeta by a noticeable margin.

Vegeta gets crushed, Enrage Vegeta would get hammed as well.

Only UI Vegeta can do something

Jiren is literally infinitely stronger so not long

He gets blinked. Vegeta probably gonna get UI or offensive UI like some people theorize. Even tho I would much more preffer something original and unique... maybe SSB3, that would be cool.

@rr79: @paytience: SSJ has never been a 50x increase. Ever. It started at 10x because Toriyama forgot about kaioken one chapter after using kaioken, then noone gave us any more information other than that it can get better. Toriyama outright called 50x an exaggeration...it's plain wrong, by the author's words himself.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/seg-story-volume-truth-about-dragon-ball/

@thelocust619: I don't know why 10x would even be a big deal since Ozaroo gives you that much boost. Toriyama probably didn't really retcon it since in Namek Goku already did a Kaioken x 20 and still was no match for Frieza. It was just how he feels or things he should have done instead.

@thedeathstar: It's nothing like that. Toriyama spent literally the entire series trying to show that linear scaling can't be used for fighters...yet all people cling to is the fact that he basically created linear shonen scaling to make that point.

It's like the "teacup in space" arguement, meant to disprove that something is floating in space without evidence, and what dbz power level fans do is akin to taking that arguement as evidence a teacup actually floating somewhere in space.

@thelocust619: You have talking in past tense there. It is WELL known that the original multiplier for SSJ was INTENDED as a 10x boosts, however when it is was pointed to Toriyama that those numbers didn't make sense with the power levels we were given and Kaioken, because KKx10 at the time was 10x multiplier, and Goku at the ONLY had a 180k pl at full release. He accepted it himself in his an interview, and in his aknowledgement of the Daizenshuu. Notice he says...as I was drawing and UP TO THAT POINT.

Besides, we argue feats based on final results, and the final result was that Goku's first SSJ transformation was a 50x multiplier. This agreed upon by Toriyama himself. So yes, 21 years ago, Toriyama himself heard those arguments, and basically said sure, Daizenshu is right-this is the encyclopedia of DB.

He is explaining the birth of these concepts, not the end result. So yes, for the past TWENTY years or so, SSJ absolutely has been a 50x multiplier. This was stated in Daizenshuu 7 in 1996...so, kinda just, you're wrong. Toriyama didn't intend it to be 50x, but it IS 50x.

Besides, he literally just gave us a reason why it would be higher than what he inteded originally: Goku's fight against Frieza generated a higher concetration of s-cells than could normally be predicted. This gives us a VARIABLE SSJ transformation; reconciles the 50x multiplier (even though Toriyama agreed 10 made no sense); and explains why Sayans can suddenly amp themselves through transformstions without Zenkai.

The thing I don't think you understand is thst the 50x multiplier ISN'T a fan calc. It was a guidebook listing given in the Daizenshuu 7 which is CANON. The editor was Akinori Watanbe who was the other half of the DB Manga next to Toriyama. He also directed Dr. Slump; furthermore, the Daizenshuu was aknowledged as the DB Encyclopedia by Toriyama in the interviews he always gsve for them.

Akira is saying he only inteded 10...Story elements however necessitated thst Goku's transformation be 50 or more in order to match Frieza in Final form, based on the numbers we were given at the time.

Jiren did this to someone who's almost 20 times faster and stronger than Vegeta

If he's serious and goes all out, he should one shot.

@paytience: No, they said 50 first, that's why he addressed it. He goes on to say that at the time, as he created it, he felt it was 10 and that 50 was an exaggeration. Word for word. That means that he did not consider the 50x multiplier as he created it...meaning the 50x has nothing to do with what actually happened in the series he created. What he drew was, in his twisted head, based on a 10x increase. That's what happened, supplementary material contradicts that but the main series always takes precedence.

Toriyama>Daizenshu.

S cells completely ruin the 50x multiplier even more. Now it can be anything (even though it already was). Daizenshu is now double wrong lol.

I never said it was a fan calc...it's the basis for fan calcs. And it's wrong. Even moreso, with current information. But it's always been wrong...Akira giving the ok to supplementary material has no bearing. That material takes precedence over no infotmation at all, but if it contradicts the actual series, the actual series takes precedence. Otherwise, u may as well just read ur guidebook instead of the series it's based on. BASED on, as in it is NOT the series.

He’d put up a fight but ultimately would get spanked same as goku and hit

I see that fight ending in two possible ways:

Vegeta gets curbstomped and ringed out by Jiren (most likely)

Vegeta gets curbstomped and then acquires UI, but unlike Goku, Vegeta is gonna have the attack mode nor the evasion or defense mode from Goku.

Either the case, they probably gonna set it up so that Vegeta goes rage mode against Jiren. Meaning that he will probably do a little bit better than SSBKx20 Goku, but still getting outclassed and humillated.

Goku lasted about 2minutes max ToP time and that was with KKX20.Vegeta get's last about 1min max.

He hasn't obtained ultra instinct yet, toppo probably saved his life, or the fool would have been given the goku treatment

A few seconds.

That is not true at all. Toriyama ORIGINALLY wanted it to be a x10 increase until his editors told him that it wouldn't make sense as Goku had already used Kaio-Ken x20 and if it was a x10 increase it would be less powerful. After that, he said that it was in fact a x50 increase.

@rr79: Idr him ever saying it IS 50x, just him okaying other people saying that about a concept he openly admitted he doesn't much care for. However, we have here unmistakable evidence, his own words, that plainly says that when he drew it, it was 10x. That's what was in his head when he conceived what happened, the basis for his creation.

He has openly told us what he thinks about the 50x number...he says it's an exaggeration. So that's what it is. Mangaka>everyone else, he obviously does not subscribe to a 50x multiplier because he says so in written word. How can u even argue this?

@rr79: You're exactly right. But homie won't listen. Toriyama had written it to be 10, but Akonori Watanabe who is ALSO the editor od Daizenshuu AND the co-creator of the DBZ Manga corrected it, and Toriyama agreed. The Daizenshuu is an encyclopedia of things that happened in dragonball...it's not theory it's observation. Nothing in it came from anywhere but the source.

Whether or not Toriyama INTENDED to write it as 10x, he didn't...he wrote it to 50x per the numbers we are given for Frieza. This was pointed out and accepted by him. Ergo it is canon, just like everything in the Daizenshuu 7 is canon. It's an encyclopedia...there is nothing in there that isn't in the source materials.

A minute or so maybe less it depends on how serious Jiren is

Gets one shotted. The air from Jiren's punch could probably do damage, if he actually hits him it's over.

@rr79: It clearly does matter...your number had no part in the making of the series. Not only that, boss called em an exaggeration. Boss is boss. Well have to agree to disagree, if u want to believe other people over the creator of the series I don't have to agree.

About it not making numerical sense...THAT'S THE POINT. Fighters cannot be quantified, at all. In dbz u can blow up a planet or get hurt by a rock depending on your mood. Right in line with Akira's explaination as to why power levels are meaningless.

That Vegeta arguement is dumb. Lol. U had to have known that as you were writing it. If AT wrote Vegeta out, he'd be gone. Not liking something is not the same as outright saying something is wrong. Realistically, he'd be an idiot not to let them publish any numbers they want because it's money, but what matters is what he says and he says it's an exaggeration. There is literally nothing to say after that.

@perethorn: @paytience: @rr79: @ryokuma100:

Im behind on Dragonball. The last match I saw was Monaka "defeat" Hit. A few questions please:

1) Which Non Destroyers are more powerful than Beerus?

2) Has anyone defeated Jiren yet?

3) Currently who is more powerful? Gohan or Trunks?

4) Who's more powerful? Current Buu or Piccolo?

Thank you in advance

Dude, you have the official number, get over it. The SSJ multiplier when a Saiyan first goes SSJ is x50, end of story. I don't give a rats ass if you don't like it, I don't care if anybody likes it, it IS the official number. Move on.

@rr79: That's fine, ur more than welcome to use the "exaggeration" and be wrong. I'll use the creator's words and be right. Just trying to help.

If you actually were right, that would make sense. But the creators words were that it IS 50x.

@p00ty:

1. None. It is implied that Beerus is among the strongest. however, Jiren has been said to have a BATTLE power like a Hakaishin. It's never implied he can actually beat one however. Just that he won't lose to Vermouth.

2. No.

3. Gohan probably.

4. Buu, definitely.

@rr79: No, because AT doesn't want them to make sense. Even your multipliers don't make sense lol. That's why he introduced power levels, to show that they are meaningless. I can get that quote too, btw.

Nope, afaik ur lying. He never said that, other people did and he got a paycheck. He actually said they're an exaggeration. Can quote. GG

Like 20 seconds

That is not true either. Akira Toriyama has gone on record about Power Levels as well and said that they ONLY reason he got rid of them was because it was too easy to use power levels to determine who would win a specific battle. That isn't fan theory, that is fact.

You are full of it dude. Akira Toriyama, the creator of Dragon Ball said that he FELT like it was an exaggeration but after his editor pointed out that a x10 multiplier would be weaker than what Goku already used against Frieza, he decided that it had to be a x50 multiplier. Doesn't matter what you feel, what matters is what you make official.

I think he will get the same treatment as goku in his KK, we haven’t seen vegeta go all out in the tournament after spending that time in the time chamber.

But this will push him to get ultra instict

@rr79: That's close to a quote of his, but you're twisting the narrative to fit your case. He never says "ONLY", and then goes on to say they change via ki and thusly "cannot be adequately measured"...so power levels do not adequately measure a fighter's strength.

--"However, I could foresee that it’d be an inconvenience for me down the line, because if you knew a concrete number, then you could tell who would win or lose, so with regards to Goku & co., I decided that [their power] would change due to “Ki” and couldn’t be adequately measured"

No, he did not say he "felt" it was an exaggeration, he said it was. Fin. He said he "felt, AS THE CREATOR" it was around 10-fold AS HE DREW IT (aka the only time that matters).

--"Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point."

It was a bit of an exaggeration. Please, tell him he's wrong lol

@thelocust619: We are done, you posted the interviews that clearly agree with what I have been saying. You want to think of them as a x10 multiplier, enjoy being flat out wrong. Just a little logic for you, explain how a x10 multiplier would beat someone that a x20 multiplier couldn't beat.