How Long Could DMS Kakashi Last Against Saiyan Saga Vegeta?

does he get one-shotted right away or does his hax buy him time?

@kalder_ridley: He can win, if he Kamui snipes or jumps into his dimensions he can win.

Within the span of a nanosecond or so before Kakashi sees him and ends the fight.

He can win if he plays it right with kamui

@cosmic_lantern: Of course I'm sure you can show me a time when Kakashi has seen a person he's never met before and immediately Kamui sniped their head off.

I mean that's happened so many times in Canon.

Depends on if Vegeta is in character, or not. Kakashi could win as well though if Vegeta is playing around.

@chaos239: You mean like the first ever time he used it against deidara and attempted to take his head off? You mean like he attempted to take the juubis head the very first opening he got? surely you aren't interchanging plot with ability, that would be both silly and incorrect. It's no reason for Kakashi not to abuse Kamui that would be like saying Superman isn't going to use his heat vision though he clearly can and obviously does often. Kakashi has very loose morals as well which makes me further question why in-fact he wont use kamui in a lethal manner here. Could it be that you simply don't like it and have nothing factual to discredit it rather than excusable CiS showings for plot purposes?

Well, Kakashi beats him so...

@cosmic_lantern: Kakashi chased Deidara with Naruto for a small amount of time and knew he was apart of the Akatsuki and knew he was after Naruto.

The Juubi had been hyped up as this deathly monster of hell to the Shinobi, hed obviously try to.

When has he seen an enemy and immeidalty Kamui sniped them without any from of context or idea whom they are.

@chaos239: Disregarding two examples doesn't particularly help your stance. Point is Kakashi has shown he goes for vitals with Kamui when he sees an opening well before his amp. Your premise rests on him not using his powerset and obvious Plot restrictions, that argument is quite simply put; stupid.

I guess Sasuke can't use Amaterasu on Mei or Onoki. I guess Minato can't use a S/T barrier to deflect a BB. I guess Guy can't open the 7th gate and just stomp The edo swordsman. I guess Kakashi couldn't use Raikiri against Itatchi. I Guess Pain couldn't have just oneshotted Naruto off the bat with CT. Holy sh*t m8, I need a drink on that one.

@cosmic_lantern: Your not grasping my point.

I know Kakashi aims at Vitals, I know he uses his abilities well.

My point is that he doesn't see an opponent and the second the fight starts "Kamui!" And snipes their heads of beofre anything else, it's not PIS it's his 'Morals' Or character.

Kakashi should win Mid diff, this vegeta is no match for perfect susanoo and as a saiyan they like to fight up close and personal and pre gravity training vegeta is just a glass canon this goes for all DBZ characters, atleast kakashi has susanoo for a decent defense.

The real question is, how long can Vegeta last before getting one-shotted by Kakashi?

Why wouldn't he win? Vegeta's only option is the Galick Gun, which he has to charge while floating in place. He gets his head ripped of immediately.

@chaos239: I've fully grasped your point now I'm pitching it back to you. Kakashi has Sasuke level Morals when it comes to combat, why wouldn't he abuse his eye abilities here? He did so the entire time he was amped in the kaguya fight, it's very in character.

Vegeta can only win after Kakashi's time limit runs out

Kakashi may not last but for a few seconds.

This is a who-hits-first scenario. So either one would last less than a second.

Kakashi should be able to kamui snipe his head or something, does dms have the intangibility limit that obito had?

Could win if he plays his cards right.

Would otherwise lose after about 10 minutes, when his Kamui intangability runs out.

Could also potentially make Vegeta lose sight of him via ninja tricks and genuinely teleport into another dimension with the opening, making him last indefinitely (or until Vegeta gets frustrated enough to blow up himself along with the entire planet at which point Kakashi wins instead).

Well, since Vegeta has no way of actually hitting him, nor are there any feats proving he's fast enough to blitz, I think the question should be how long can he last against Kakashi.

Kakashi gets one shotted. People think Vegeta is going to just sit there wtf lol

@Trndo: how is he gonna hit him?

Umm with a Ki blast? Hes not going to going lay down

Kakashi one shots

@cosmic_lantern: Because that isn't how he does things, showing 2 examples where he has done it doesn't automatically prove he will use it to BFR or kill his opponent with it, as soon as the battle begins.

He didn't use it against pain all the way until his life depended on it. Even though he was determined to kill sasuke, again he didn't use it till he was about to die, Kakashi isn't someone who opens up with his full power. He only uses it when he has no choice or other option, your own examples prove that.

@cosmic_lantern: Not to mention Kamui isn't instantaneous, it requires time, that amount of time is more than enough to Vegeta, who is FTL+ reaction and combat speed, and relatively casual planet busting power.

Think about it, Nappa who is much weaker that Vegeta, can also beat Kakashi. All Nappa needs to do is one lift of his finger. Remember Nappa flattens a city casually with just a lift of his finger.

The susanoo has tanked city busting attack which are much more potent and concentrated than Nappa's casual finger lifts. He will probably need to put some more effort and make it multi-country level to kill kakashi.

@streak619: So again you're piggybacking on the notion that Kakashi somehow isn't going to spam his eye abilities off the bat like the entirety of the Kaguya fight, ignore the fact he's a tactical genius, views fighting as tedious, and that he even suggesting that he doesn't have a grain of common sense by attacking the most vulnerable part of any enemy? Where the hell do you guys get this garbage from? Is Kakashi simply going to watch him whilst vegeta attacks him, why the hell wouldn't he make the first move when he's irrefutably the faster of the two? You even make things worse by pulling out an exact examples of CiS I mentioned before.

Also Lol @ FTL combat speed and reactionary, that argument is even more unsubstantiated than Kakashi not using Kamui. It doesn't travel at all, and vegeta doesn't have the speed to escape it. Not to mention it happens almost instantaneously, that's suggesting vegeta even knows what's going on.

Saying Kakashi won't use Kamui off the bat is saying Sasuke won't teleblitz, or Itatchi won't spam Genjutsu. ALL hilariously unsupported by anything other than CiS/PiS.

@cosmic_lantern:

'So again you're piggybacking on the notion that Kakashi somehow isn't going to spam his eye abilities off the bat like the entirety of the Kaguya fight, ignore the fact he's a tactical genius, views fighting as tedious, and that he even suggesting that he doesn't have a grain of common sense by attacking the most vulnerable part of any enemy?'

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Care to point out my faults in bullets, for me to debunk them?

'Where the hell do you guys get this garbage from? '

Coming from the guy who thinks Kakashi is 'irrefutably' faster.

'You even make things worse by pulling out an exact examples of CiS I mentioned before.'

Me saying: 'it isn't his style of fighting', cannot be put off by something like CIS or PIS. Fact remains, Kakashi has never opened of with a Kamui unless he is desperate, or he knows he cannot win without it(which he doesn't in this case). You can try to pull your CIS and PiS arguments, but it doesn't change the fact that other than Deidara and Kaguya he has never used his trump card as a starter, sorry to break it to you, but no ninja EVER starts of with their trump card unless they feel it is absolutely necessary. Taking Kakashi's fighting style and calling it 'PiS' or 'CiS' is the most simplistic and fallacious argument you could possible throw at it.

PiS and CiS are arguments that are meant to be used against exceptional events where the character is uncharacteristically stupid for the sake of plot, it is meant to be used to counter a FEW examples that goes against a character's style or personality, not to be spammed on every example thrown at you to defend the 2 examples you find to support your argument. I'll say it again: 99% of the time, Kakashi does not open of with Kamui. If you want to say 'PiS' or 'CiS' and not accept that that is his style of fighting and further make a bigger idiot out of yourself, be my guest.

I don't mind having a CaV on this, but 10 bucks says you'll decline.

'why the hell wouldn't he make the first move when he's irrefutably the faster of the two? '

'Also Lol @ FTL combat speed and reactionary, that argument is even more unsubstantiated than Kakashi not using Kamui. '

Kakashi' best speed feat is chopping lightning, you do realise this is something Popo can casually replicate right? Goku goes and fetches Roshi's goggles before light could travel like 10 meters, with casual ease, this puts his reflexes and combat speed at FTL. Kakashi would die before he realises he is about to die.

'It doesn't travel at all, '

When tf did I say it travels?

'vegeta doesn't have the speed to escape it.'

And yet for some reason Deidara is able to. Being on a doughy bird and doing so by swerving left and right. Yup nothing to suggest Vegeta can do the same.

'Not to mention it happens almost instantaneously'

.....if by almost instantaneously you mean a time span of 2-3 minutes and failing to do so in the end?

'Saying Kakashi won't use Kamui off the bat is saying Sasuke won't teleblitz, or Itatchi won't spam Genjutsu.'

Itachi and Sasuke have their own styles of fighting, and in no way give any implication with Kakashi's fighting style, so don't draw any.

@Trndo: kakashi is intangible lol

@cosmic_lantern:

1)"Point out the faults in your argument so you can debunk them? I mean for starters the whole assertion is just complete garbage, it has no rationality whatsoever behind it."

Likewise, and be more specific.

2)"is? Care to list some speed feats for Vegeta besides getting stomped in KK which by default places them at Base Naruto speeds?"

How about the fact that he is casually faster than Burt and Jeice who were FTL? No?

3)"It can be CiS or PiS because I've just given you several examples that prove this to be true, your argument hinges on ignoring excusable canon which proves how biased of a debater you are. The only time this version of kakashi is used he was saw spamming Kamui THE ENTIRE FIGHT, hell kakashi abuses Kamui regularly throughout the war. That in itself should outline how goto it is in-character. Why the hell would kakashi wait to use Kamui when he has a clear opening with it? Your premise is even more fallicous, irrational, and flat out illogical than mine."

'It can be CiS or PiS because I've just given you several examples that prove this to be true'

and dozens of examples proving the exact opposite, which is more credible? 3-4 examples or the practically entire goddamn series?

"your argument hinges on ignoring excusable canon which proves how biased of a debater you are."

it isn't excusable. Using lone examples in special circumstances, ignoring majority of the cannon that completely goes against it isn't excusable. Your examples that I am ignoring? Are not credible or excusable when compared to the overwhelming number of times you're visibly wrong.

4)"You haven't recalled a single instance yet"

literally every time he hasn't started out with kamui.

Itachi

Pain.

Sasuke.

Jinchuuriki.

7 swordsman of the mist.

Literally everybody that would've been sealed way faster if he used it.

Just some that I have from the top of my head, there are far more I assure you.

"Well you've lost it. Sasuke vs SS Vegeta? "

Bravado. Also when did go from DMS Kakashi to Sasuke? I believe Sasuke can possibly beat ss vegeta, and even right now I can think of a few ways. What I was referring to your assertion that it would take a few nanoseconds for DMS Kakashi beat ss vegata

"Yep, against a vastly inferior kakashi who couldn't use it properly."

Fair enough.

"Innaccurate to an ignorant degree;"

Likewise.

"Which both revolve around using thier eye abilities which Kakashi is quite litterally known for in Kakashi of the sharingan. Once again, you're being irrationally ignorant."

Itachi and Sasuke using their dojutsu regularly does not imply and/or suggest that Kakashi must do they same, this is nonsensical.

"That in itself should outline how goto it is in-character."

Special circumstances, his kamui was the key to defeating Obito and thus the zombie jinchuuriki, he doesn't spam it unless he needs to.

"You mean goku aim dodged SF? Hypersonic speeds moving 10m before the technique is activated? Madara+ have Nanosecond perception."

Ahh, the matter of a different interpretation.

there is evidence for Goku dodging it after Tien launched it, no evidence for your claim, but I will drop it here. Let us do this in CaV.

"You mean a 8-12 year old kakashi who may not have had the sharingan at the time? My lord how impressive."

LOL, and people thought I wanked the Narutoverse. You do realise Kakashi without the Sharingan is shit right? Especially around 14 years old when he developed Chidori, Minato even stated that he was moving too fast for him to react to his opponents, who at the time were, chunnin and maybe jounin.

So no kakashi chopped lightning most definitely after he received the sharingan. That is his best feat.

"Then whats the grounds for him being able to dodge it if it doesn't travel"

because it slow.

Suprisingly Kakashi would win in character. Assuming this is saiyan saga vegeta.

@cosmic_lantern: why don't we finish this in the CaV?

Saiyan Saga Vegeta in character right on the bat goes for the kill E.g--> The Saibaman and Nappa. He didn't even leave his own henchmen.

Vegeta has no way of tagging Kakashi cause of intangibility. Kakashi can one-shot with kamui before the time limit.