How long can CW Green Arrow last against Civil War Black Panther?

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StealthGrey

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Poll How long can CW Green Arrow last against Civil War Black Panther? (73 votes)

Same as Clint, a few seconds 36%
Couple of minutes 38%
10 minutes 5%
Screw this, He would beat T'Challa 21%

Fight takes place in the airport

Oliver swapped places with Hawkeye

Standard equipments

Both sides have basic knowledge of each other abilities

T'Challa is bloodlusted he's after Bucky to avenge his father's death

All Oliver has to do is just buy Cap and Bucky some time untill Both of them get to the Quinjet and escape.

Oliver: "We haven't met yet.. I'm Oliver.."

T'Challa:" I don't care!!"

Then the fight begins

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the_wspanialy

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@the_wspanialy:

Clint "lasting" as long as he did against T'Challa in cqc is nothing more than PIS. But the Russos really wanted everyone involved in the airport scene to be at least semi-relevant, so we see T'Challa performing needless, flashy acrobatics instead of ending the fight quickly and efficiently.

This can be applied to Oliver's feats too. "But the CW writers wanted everyone involved in the final scene of the crossover to be at least semi-relevant, so we see Dominators being knocked out by Oliver instead of no-selling all his attacks and quickly one-shotting him."

Not that this logic makes sense, the Russos didn't have to make everyone relevant at all. In that same movie, super-soldiers wrecked Natasha in seconds on multiple occasions. The Russos also could have made Clint relevant solely through his archery skill and trick arrows, and yet they chose to make him fare well in cqc.

At that point Oliver already had a history of taking on superhumans in cqc, including actual master martial artists (Damien Darhk, Vandal Savage). And unlike Black Panther, Dominators are ultimately still a fodder, so Oliver's performance against them is not really that far-fetched.

Meanwhile, Clint's history against superhumans was limited to fodder (Chitauri, Ultron bots), which he dealt with almost solely via his equipment. And now he's suddenly suppose to trade blows with Black Panther? The same Black Panther who owned Winter Soldier, who in turn owned Black Widow (who beat bloodlusted, peak Clint while she was injured and holding back)? Right...

And his inability to do so speaks loads about Clint's skill.

His what?

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jashro44

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GA stomps.

I can't tell if your serious and that is very concerning.

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anthp2000

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#53  Edited By anthp2000  Moderator

@the_wspanialy:

Just because Clint doesn't have enough screentime to constantly take on Black Panther level threats 1 on 1 doesn't mean he can't do it if he has to. He has the in universe/on paper standing as an Avenger who can fight some of the best fighters in the world and it makes perfect sense that he'd be this good.

There is no inconsistency between the whole BW/WS and Hawkeye/BP thing like you seem to think. Black Widow landed her best hits on Bucky and tried to snap him out of mind control with elbows to the head till last second - as it was confirmed in the literation of the fight from the HC tie in - but she couldn't, so she got pinned down trying. Doesn't mean she couldn't actually fight him 1 on 1 for a while if she had to like Clint did against Panther. The difference is that Clint knew he just had to hold off T'Challa, Natasha was direct and agressive because she tried to stop him for good - either by incapacitating him or overcoming the mind control. If she had to, she'd just jump off of his back and attempt to dodge and grapple 1 on 1 head on. But there was no point in that. So no, this is no proof that someone on Clint's level can't fight T'Challa.

BoF mentioned his inability to just grab the staff and one shot Clint from the get go. Clint was good enough to prevent this from happening. Unless you have actual evidence on the contrary - as in anti-feats for this fight - he's just that good.

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RBT

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27% think Oliver only does as good as Clint. Should be lower, tbh.

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IndomitableRegal

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My goodness. That Clint showing against T'Challa has to be the most bafflingly overblown "feat" I've ever seen. Well, it's up there with Ronin Clint. Clint in general...

Anyway, Oliver is superior to Clint in every way, but it's a bit hard to compare considering how much of the time Clint spent "keeping Panther at bay" was off screen. I'll say Ollie lasts a couple of minutes for now. He won't win though.

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deactivated-5edbb4007f071

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the_wspanialy

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@the_wspanialy:

Just because Clint doesn't have enough screentime to constantly take on Black Panther level threats 1 on 1 doesn't mean he can't do it if he has to. He has the in universe/on paper standing as an Avenger who can fight some of the best fighters in the world and it makes perfect sense that he'd be this good.

There is no inconsistency between the whole BW/WS and Hawkeye/BP thing like you seem to think. Black Widow landed her best hits on Bucky and tried to snap him out of mind control with elbows to the head till last second - as it was confirmed in the literation of the fight from the HC tie in - but she couldn't, so she got pinned down trying. Doesn't mean she couldn't actually fight him 1 on 1 for a while if she had to like Clint did against Panther. The difference is that Clint knew he just had to hold off T'Challa, Natasha was direct and agressive because she tried to stop him for good - either by incapacitating him or overcoming the mind control. If she had to, she'd just jump off of his back and attempt to dodge and grapple 1 on 1 head on. But there was no point in that. So no, this is no proof that someone on Clint's level can't fight T'Challa.

BoF mentioned his inability to just grab the staff and one shot Clint from the get go. Clint was good enough to prevent this from happening. Unless you have actual evidence on the contrary - as in anti-feats for this fight - he's just that good.

Four movies (not counting the Thor cameo) and all of tie-in material is more than enough to firmly establish his martial standing and give him at least clear victory over an accomplished martial artist or skilled superhuman fighter. Apparently the directors/writers didn't see the need. Stop hiding behind screentime and in universe/on paper standing and face the facts. Clint has barely any buisness going against Natasha, less alone someone with comparable level of skill, much better stats, virtually impenetrable armor and willingness to kill. Unless you can prove that Clint's staff packs more of a punch than high-caliber gunfire, Winter Soldier's uppercut or Captain America's shield throw, T'Challa could just went head on into Clint's swings, laugh in his face and one-punch him.

No amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that when he's gone against any skilled fighter in the MCU, he lost. You could put as much of a spin on that as you want to, and show how Clint blocked that attack here or parried that punch there but end of the day the result is the same, he lost.

Similarly, no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that Bucky treated Nat like an ant, despite numerous circumstancial factors in her favour.

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anthp2000

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#58 anthp2000  Moderator

@anthp2000 said:

@the_wspanialy:

Just because Clint doesn't have enough screentime to constantly take on Black Panther level threats 1 on 1 doesn't mean he can't do it if he has to. He has the in universe/on paper standing as an Avenger who can fight some of the best fighters in the world and it makes perfect sense that he'd be this good.

There is no inconsistency between the whole BW/WS and Hawkeye/BP thing like you seem to think. Black Widow landed her best hits on Bucky and tried to snap him out of mind control with elbows to the head till last second - as it was confirmed in the literation of the fight from the HC tie in - but she couldn't, so she got pinned down trying. Doesn't mean she couldn't actually fight him 1 on 1 for a while if she had to like Clint did against Panther. The difference is that Clint knew he just had to hold off T'Challa, Natasha was direct and agressive because she tried to stop him for good - either by incapacitating him or overcoming the mind control. If she had to, she'd just jump off of his back and attempt to dodge and grapple 1 on 1 head on. But there was no point in that. So no, this is no proof that someone on Clint's level can't fight T'Challa.

BoF mentioned his inability to just grab the staff and one shot Clint from the get go. Clint was good enough to prevent this from happening. Unless you have actual evidence on the contrary - as in anti-feats for this fight - he's just that good.

Four movies (not counting the Thor cameo) and all of tie-in material is more than enough to firmly establish his martial standing and give him at least clear victory over an accomplished martial artist or skilled superhuman fighter. Apparently the directors/writers didn't see the need. Stop hiding behind screentime and in universe/on paper standing and face the facts. Clint has barely any buisness going against Natasha, less alone someone with comparable level of skill, much better stats, virtually impenetrable armor and willingness to kill. Unless you can prove that Clint's staff packs more of a punch than high-caliber gunfire, Winter Soldier's uppercut or Captain America's shield throw, T'Challa could just went head on into Clint's swings, laugh in his face and one-punch him.

No amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that when he's gone against any skilled fighter in the MCU, he lost. You could put as much of a spin on that as you want to, and show how Clint blocked that attack here or parried that punch there but end of the day the result is the same, he lost.

Similarly, no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that Bucky treated Nat like an ant, despite numerous circumstancial factors in her favour.

So because you do not like Clint being a good fighter, he isn't? Even though there is no evidence of him not being? You realise that argument is flawed at its core because the burden of proof is on you and you alone here? Show me evidence of Clint being bad, or not good enough to do what he did. Then you can convince me it's PIS.

No amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that when he's gone against any skilled fighter in the MCU, he lost. You could put as much of a spin on that as you want to, and show how Clint blocked that attack here or parried that punch there but end of the day the result is the same, he lost.

Let's see... discarding the fight with T'Challa in question, the named characters he's fought are Akihiko the Yakuza leader, who he beat and.... Widow. So because he lost to Widow who's pretty much confirmed by statement as the best fighter in these movies he's bad? What?

'Mental gymnastics' - there's no mental gymnastics involved in describing what happened. Natasha unarmed never stood a chance against Bucky, she got dropped trying. Neither does Clint with just a staff against a geared up Black Panther, he eventually lost. Your point by my understanding was that Clint did better against T'Challa than his superior did against a Super Soldier; which is wrong because the mindsets and circumstances were entirely different. Nat tried to stop him till last second and went down landing her best hits, Clint fought him head on to give Bucky time. So your argument to say Clint's feat is inconsistent is wrong. Your train of thought is basically "Nat didn't last as long", well Nat had no reason to last longer, she tried to snap him out of it with all she got and failed. That doesn't mean she cannot dodge and parry like Clint did against Panther, and therefore it doesn't mean Clint doing that is not legit.

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anthp2000

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#59 anthp2000  Moderator

@kolkent: Just in case that's supposed to be bad, Clint's been fighting hordes of superhuman aliens for 3 hours straight - as Natasha told Rocket in EG - in mid and close range after having his head bashed in by Natasha, after hours of mind control by the Mind Stone. So struggling at some point with them is fine.

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The_Justiciar

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Oliver > Clint, so he should last a couple minutes before going down

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ourmanuel

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Oliver > Clint, so he should last a couple minutes before going down

This is only true if you look at it from the viewpoint of "ollie has better feats than Clint does, so he can rep the BP feat"

If you get what i mean.

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The_Justiciar

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@ourmanuel: Let me put it this way.

Ollie has better feats than Clint does, so he can replicate the BP feat.

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anthp2000

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#63 anthp2000  Moderator

Oliver has better feats than Clint disregarding Clint's best feat, therefore Oliver is better imo.

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ourmanuel

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@ourmanuel: Let me put it this way.

Ollie has better feats than Clint does, so he can replicate the BP feat.

This would only be true if Clint has anti feats that can prove he's less skilled than ollie.

The BP fight itself is a good feat for clint, and one of his only feats. We can't just say ollie can rep it cuz Clint was mostly featless and therefore ollie is more skilled

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nfactor1995

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Oliver can hold his own for a bit due to skill, but isn't winning. Minute tops seems fair, people underestimate how long a minute long fight really is. If Oliver gets to range though, it could last longer so long as he keeps it that way.

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Blueshoecant

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Oliver can hold his own for a bit due to skill, but isn't winning. Minute tops seems fair, people underestimate how long a minute long fight really is. If Oliver gets to range though, it could last longer so long as he keeps it that way.

This

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BOC

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In the CQC portion, he does worse than Clint. Outlier or not, it's a better feat than Oliver's.

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RBT

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#69  Edited By RBT

What nfactor said basically. Ollie is considerably more skilled but can't do much to BP in cqc. A minute tops.

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Kevd4wg

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#70 Kevd4wg  Online

@rbt: so less time than Hawkeye?

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Slade-Prime

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Oliver lasts longer than Clint

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D00mSlayer1993

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Ah shit, I chose a wrong option lol but anyways Oliver definitely lasts longer than Clint and it’ll take more than a kick to the chest to knock him out but Oliver isn’t beating BP. No way.

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StealthGrey

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Bump

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SupremeGeneration

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Whatever ANTHP said it is, add 50 seconds.

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WorldsGreatest

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#75  Edited By WorldsGreatest

Oliver was two shotted by a Mirakuru soldier. A serious T’Challa Whis many times stronger than a Mirakuru soldier kicked Clint twice and he wasn’t even incapped

He also isn’t supersonic by any means unlike Clint who dodged supersonic repulsors. Look how good that did him.

Oliver gets killed instantly .

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WorldsGreatest

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This Green Arrow wank is too strong.

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Dangannopoopoo

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blackpantherisb

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Oliver obviously lasts longer.

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Lord_God

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Oliver planet busts

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Lord_God

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WhatIsWritten

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Oliver doesn't last nearly as long as Clint did

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TheSuperor

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Panther should be able to last about 40 sec to a minute against Ollie.

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SquadDoubleYou

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Lord_God

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Panther should be able to last about 40 sec to a minute against Ollie.

You do mean the opposite right?

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Lilbroomstick

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#86  Edited By Lilbroomstick

Arrow last? He oneshots. T'Challa might last 4 seconds at best though

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TheSuperor

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@lord_god said:
@thesuperor said:

Panther should be able to last about 40 sec to a minute against Ollie.

You do mean the opposite right?

You read it right.

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Lord_God

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@lord_god said:
@thesuperor said:

Panther should be able to last about 40 sec to a minute against Ollie.

You do mean the opposite right?

You read it right.

How does Oliver hold his own against T'Challa let alone beat him?

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TheSuperor

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@anthp2000: Oliver is light years better than Clint. Clint is no where near the h2h fighter Oliver is.

CW arrow stomps hawkeye MCU and their comic counterparts I believe as of now GA wins but it would be an actual fight.

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RBT

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Oliver was two shotted by a Mirakuru soldier. A serious T’Challa Whis many times stronger than a Mirakuru soldier kicked Clint twice and he wasn’t even incapped

He also isn’t supersonic by any means unlike Clint who dodged supersonic repulsors. Look how good that did him.

Oliver gets killed instantly .

It takes different kind of skill to be wrong about literally every point you make.

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MonsieurMaster

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5 Seconds, T'Challa was holding back against Clint.

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deactivated-614da662d6bee

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Longer than Hawkeye. Though that's one of Hawkeye's better feats.

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deactivated-60e9d095c91dd

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GA loses. Would last longer than Clint tho.