How long can Count Dooku last against Knightfall Vader? (Legends)

option 1

3 to 5 minutes.

10 seconds

In the film, Dooku lasted 13 seconds against Anakin. KFV >(>) Zonakin. He'll be lucky to last 10.

10 seconds

Depends on his mindset tbh.

He lost to Anakin via inferior power, but also due to arrogance. He had a smug grin on his face even while battling Zonakin and proceeds to try and beat Anakin the same way as in AoTC, which backfires.

That Dooku lasts 12 seconds or less.

A cautious Dooku that knows what he's up against could probably last longer before growing tired.

3-4, 5 minutes if he acts smart. The film version doesn't represent the reality it's a shortened version, in the RoTS novel, the fight lasts for several minutes and the reasons for Dooku's weak performance against Zonakin in comparison to base-RoTS Anakin are also thoroughly explained in there. I believe it's nonsense to think he'd only last a few seconds against KF Vader. Given that they have knowledge about eachother, I think Dooku would be able to give KFV a real fight.

Realistically, a Serious Dooku with Knowledge could last 3-5 minutes and might even take a couple rounds.

Bump.

Dooku wasn't just "inferior" to Anakin. He was far below him. Nor was it just power. Anakin was driving him back even pre-Zonakin:

He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall, but Dooku didn't have time to enjoy it.

Skywalker was all over him.

The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker—Skywalker was getting stronger.

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.

He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again.

Just stopping Anakin from cleaving him in two took huge amounts of power on his part. Anakin was matching him in skill - surpassing him, arguably - dominating him in physicals, and stomping him in power. Zonakin did this at a faster pace. KFV is stronger than even that iteration of Anakin. How is Dooku lasting several minutes when every intercepted blow will drain him?

I don’t think Knightfall Vader is much above how Anakin was towards the end of the invisible hand duel when he stopped holding back. Dooku at that point was already exhausted and he still lasted a good bunch of seconds. I can’t see a fresh Dooku going down in less than 30 seconds, but also I doubt he would hold out for much more than a minute. So I’ll say 30secs-1min

Worse than he did on Invisible Hand

5 seconds to 15 seconds

@breakofdawn: I really don't see how you're disagreeing with my comment tbh.

I said he'd last longer if he wasn't cocky about his own abilities and fought more carefully.

KFV relative to the Sheev by most viner opinon.

How Dooku can lasting 30 sec or more

Dooku outright guts him, and easily. At his absolute strongest, Anakin was near-equaled by Obi-Wan, a Grievous tier opponent. An incensed Anakin only gained an indecisive edge over an exhausted, holding back Dooku via exploiting the latter's circumstantial confidence. Beforehand, Anakin was losing badly to Dooku even with his own relative peer (Obi-Wan) at his side.

Dooku wasn't exhausted. That's a myth. He continually restored himself throughout the fight, including just before the opening salvo where Anakin wrecked him:

There was something troublingly appropriate about it. Seeing Skywalker standing where Dooku himself had stood only moments ago... it was as though he was trying to remember a dream he'd never actually had...He pushed this aside, drawing once more upon the certain knowledge of his personal invincibility to open a channel to the Force. Power flowed into him, and the weight of his years dropped away.

He lifted his blade, and beckoned. Skywalker leapt from the balcony. Even as the boy hurtled downward, Dooku felt a new twist in the currents of the Force between them, and he finally understood.

He understood how Skywalker was getting stronger. Why he no longer spoke. How he had become a machine of battle. He understood why Sidious had been so interested in him for so long.

Skywalker was a natural.

There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training. He held the Force in the clench of a white-hot fist. He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it.

This boy had the gift of fury.

And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step,

Even if he weren't, that doesn't help Dooku's case. Several blows from Anakin are enough to completely drain Anakin. That's indicative in and of itself of a huge power gap, both in offensive power and reserves.

Because cockiness had very little to do with it. Dooku quickly shed his own arrogance as soon as he felt Anakin's sheer strength in the Force. In the film, this happens right after the saber clash where Dooku taunts him. In the novel, this happens around the same point. Gillard himself tried to communicate this:

“We wanted to chop his head off … that wasn’t in the script, but we thought it needed to be that brutal,” Gillard said. “Dooku technically should have known he was going to lose. I mean, we tried to show it through the fight that suddenly he’s thinking ‘Oh my god, this kid is something else, I’m in trouble’, but I don’t know if that came across.”

Even if you ignore the novel in favour of the film, any arrogance Dooku had clearly disappeared the moment Anakin shoved him back and drove him backwards step by step.

@breakofdawn:

Even if you ignore the novel in favour of the film, any arrogance Dooku had clearly disappeared the moment Anakin shoved him back and drove him backwards step by step.

I disagree, his mindset remains the same up until his hands get blitzed off.

Dooku's arrogance caused him to overextend and go for Anakins bait.

Its even listed as one of his weaknesses, so I'm not sure how one can argue it didn't play a role.

@kirkseven said:

@breakofdawn:

Even if you ignore the novel in favour of the film, any arrogance Dooku had clearly disappeared the moment Anakin shoved him back and drove him backwards step by step.

I disagree, his mindset remains the same up until his hands get blitzed off.

Dooku's arrogance caused him to overextend and go for Anakins bait.

Its even listed as one of his weaknesses, so I'm not sure how one can argue it didn't play a role.

A quote that is contradicted by Gillard later on, who outright states that Dooku knows Anakin is going to beat him. A quote, I might add, that is also contradicted by Lucas, who states that the entire fight is a test by Sidious to determine if Anakin is stronger, not more cunning.

@breakofdawn said:

@kirkseven said:

@breakofdawn:

Even if you ignore the novel in favour of the film, any arrogance Dooku had clearly disappeared the moment Anakin shoved him back and drove him backwards step by step.

I disagree, his mindset remains the same up until his hands get blitzed off.

Dooku's arrogance caused him to overextend and go for Anakins bait.

Its even listed as one of his weaknesses, so I'm not sure how one can argue it didn't play a role.

A quote that is contradicted by Gillard later on, who outright states that Dooku knows Anakin is going to beat him. A quote, I might add, that is also contradicted by Lucas, who states that the entire fight is a test by Sidious to determine if Anakin is stronger, not more cunning.

If anything, the quotes that happened closer to the initial making of the film when these ideas are still fresh in peoples minds probably represent the true events if conflicting ideas are presented later on.

People often forget or misremember, after presenting the first idea initially.

Lucas, who states that the entire fight is a test by Sidious to determine if Anakin is stronger, not more cunning.

Well yeah, Dooku's stats suggest he's the second most cunning Sith Lord between TPM and RoTJ with Sidious probably being above him.

I also remember Lucas saying Dooku was ordered to hold back by Sidious and that (per the script) Lucas had Dooku and Obi Wan grow exhausted half way in the duel.

@kirkseven:

If anything, the quotes that happened closer to the initial making of the film when these ideas are still fresh in peoples minds probably represent the true events if conflicting ideas are presented later on.

Ironically, Gillard's original statement is the conflicting one. Lucas made it clear that Dooku was ordered to fight Anakin at his fullest, and if Anakin bested him, Palpatine would interfere. If Dooku held back out of either restraint or arrogance, the "test" would be worthless to Sidious. The Lucas-edited novel corroborates that, with Dooku quickly cutting loose:

These clowns might—just possibly—actually be able to beat him.

No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice.

His later quote that I posted is actually more in-line with what Lucas set out.

Well yeah, Dooku's stats suggest he's the second most cunning Sith Lord between TPM and RoTJ with Sidious probably being above him.

I also remember Lucas saying Dooku was ordered to hold back by Sidious and that (per the script) Lucas had Dooku and Obi Wan grow exhausted half way in the duel.

That's not what he said. He said that Dooku needed to "test" him, meaning that he'd fight him to his fullest but would avoid killing him (not a major hindrance for a duelist as skilled Dooku):

As I stated above: Dooku holding back would make the test useless to Sidious. As for the script, Lucas himself doesn't particularly like using them, and usually altered them:

it's very hard on a piece of paper, a script, to get the full essence of what's going to actually happen or how well that's going to work on the screen or not on the screen, and so what I like to do is just accept that fact. When I actually see the thing play out on the screen, I'm gonna come up with other ideas about how to tell the story or where the blank spots are or things that aren't necessary that I cut out, which is a normal editing process. I just take that to the extreme.

Case in point: the original script had Dooku being disarmed partway through:

How is Obi-Wan a Grievous-tier opponent? He was pressured at the start but within 30 seconds of the fight Grievous had lost two of his hands, from here it would have only gotten easier for Obi-Wan.

I don't see how Anakin's fight against Obi-Wan is an anti-feat either tbh. Obi-Wan has trained Anakain and fought alongside him for 13 years. On top of this, Suresu (Obi Wan's Lightsaber Form) is much more stylistically advantageous against Djem So (Anakin's Lightsaber Form) than Dooku's Makashi.

@subline: Mustafar Anakin was hindered. That's large part of the reason how Obi was able to do well. Realistically, an unhindered Anakin would have destroyed him.

Mustafar Anakin has zero quotes saying he's hindered and neither Lucas nor Gillard has ever made any distinction between KFV and MFV. Kenobi‘s just stronger than you think.

Anyway Dooku dies in 5-10 seconds depending on how much Anakin wants to torture him.

@sheevsmacker: KFV is not on par with Sidious, despite being relatively close.

And Dooku has consistently lasted more than 30 seconds against Yoda, who is near as makes no difference in par with Sidious.

I don’t follow your argument, why would Dooku be incapable of lasting more than 30 seconds against KFV?

Observe

Kenobi is strong, but not enough to challenge a tier 9 who was arguably as strong as Sidious. There's quite a few sources illustrating hindered Anakin.

@frozen: That and in the movie, we see him literally crying. If that doesn't sound like he's conflicted, then I don't know what does, he's clearly not all there in the head or the dark side.

Yeah. And for what it's worth, Hayden stated that he thinks Anakin's emotions were working against him in the duel.

Not to mention Kenobi himself mentioned Anakin was going to kill him

Nonsense.

Observe:

(My post from the Obi Wan vs Darth Sidious thread)

So Obi Wan should honestly be a high 9.

You think fight against the Doku are circumstatnial? intersting

Why else do you think he became so insistent and concerned with leaving him behind on the invisible hand?

Fear of Obi Wan's power that's what.

And luck

zonakin take 30 second to kill a dooku or no ?

@w4nkdestroyer: kfv is fight other people at same time too i thiknig

? how is only fight the drallig

he fighitng padawan of drallig at same time or no ?

he can only using one hand against the dralig and he nromal use two hand

a few seconds at most

Now, that is an intriguing assertion. What leads you to that conclusion?