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Posted by SaltySultan (261 posts) 3 months, 18 days ago

Poll: How fast is the SDS verse and the God Tiers? (72 votes)

FTE 7%
Supersonic 1%
Supersonic+ 1%
Hypersonic 3%
Hypersonic+ 3%
High Hypersonic 7%
MHS 10%
MHS+ (Lightning timing) 25%
MHS++ 28%
Sub-Rel 4%
Sub-rel+ 3%
Relativsitic 4%
Lightspeed 7%
Omnipresent 13%

Speed in NNT is quite a hot topic. Some believe the verse is only at lightning timing based on feats, others believe it is easily quad digit mach based on scaling. Others use Galands feat to reach high MHS+ NNT and others say that it is neither based on a consistent amount of antifeats.

What do you think?

This poll is for the top speed in the verse, not the overall speed of the characters.

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#51 Posted by Jko1 (3087 posts) - - Show Bio

@saltysultan: Arthur being surprised at Mel fighting faster than sound isn’t an anti-feat. The first flaw in that reasoning is that MHS is faster than sound, so it offers no contradiction.

Buddy I think you got things flipped backwards here. MHS (Massively HYPERSONIC) by definition is faster than the speed of sound (sonic). Saying that msh isn't faster than sound is like saying that massively faster than light isn't faster than the speed of light. Do you see something wrong now?

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#52 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy crap Mel not even lightning timing? Meliodas is a legitimate Microsecond to low-end nanosecond timer based off sheer indisputable canon alone(MHS to relativistic). No scaling whatsoever is needed.

I'll be back momentarily with the scans.

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#53 Posted by KingCrimson (5654 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Bloodlusted is exaggerating. He was mildly annoyed at the mention of Elizabeth. There is nothing in that scene that suggests he was going all out.

Subjectively speaking, I can totally see your point, but there is no objective proof in that feat which makes Mel slower than MHS.

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#54 Posted by KingCrimson (5654 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1:

Buddy I think you got things flipped backwards here. MHS (Massively HYPERSONIC) by definition is faster than the speed of sound (sonic). Saying that msh isn't faster than sound is like saying that massively faster than light isn't faster than the speed of light. Do you see something wrong now?

That's literally the opposite of what I said mate.

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#55 Edited by FlashingSabre (3864 posts) - - Show Bio

None of these anti-feats are even anti-feats. All of them are Mel explicitly not being serious.

Also, the Battle of Leones was pretty much Arthur's first real fight. Him being surprised by someone going supersonic is just him showing his inexperience, and it's not like someone whose never been in a serious fight and can't use like 90% of his power is a credible source on how strong or fast someone is. He was impressed by base Hendrickson, who Mel could casually stomp at his absolute weakest.

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#56 Posted by Jko1 (3087 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1:

Buddy I think you got things flipped backwards here. MHS (Massively HYPERSONIC) by definition is faster than the speed of sound (sonic). Saying that msh isn't faster than sound is like saying that massively faster than light isn't faster than the speed of light. Do you see something wrong now?

That's literally the opposite of what I said mate.

Lmao now I'm confused. So you're saying that mhs+>speed of sound isn't a flaw or did Saltysultan say that?

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#57 Posted by KingCrimson (5654 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1:

Lmao now I'm confused. So you're saying that mhs+>speed of sound isn't a flaw or did Saltysultan say that?

I said:

  • MHS is greater than the speed of sound.
  • The feat in question mentions that Meliodas moved faster than the speed of sound
  • The two statements do not contradict each other
  • It's not an anti-feat
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#58 Posted by shirso (4421 posts) - - Show Bio

You call that an anti feat but a post time skip character that can run 100 km/hr in One Piece is considered fast is OK?

I know everyone freaked out when this chapter first came out nut unfortunately it was a featless Samurai girl who made that statement, not Luffy, or any other established character for that matter, and it can't be applied in any form to characters like Luffy. So all it proves is that featless Samurai is slow that's it. But nice try.

Here you can check the discussion in this thread from Post 74. This was discussed at length.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/how-fast-is-monkey-d-luffy-you-can-use-any-of-his--1971882/?page=2

Incidentally, Gazelleman's running speed is actually 220 km/hr, so you probably haven't even read the series you are attempting to lowball.

One Piece has more strong anti feats than SDS, don’t be bias dude.

Citing out of context statements from random, featless characters doesn't help your case, especially since you clearly haven't read the series yourself. And why even bring One Piece into this?

Zeldris’ ominous nebula attack is flat out stated to be FTL as well and directly stated to not be an exaggeration.

It is a mistranslation. I think this was pointed out to you already.

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#60 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18069 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso:

I know everyone freaked out when this chapter first came out nut unfortunately it was a featless Samurai girl who made that statement, not Luffy, or any other established character for that matter, and it can't be applied in any form to characters like Luffy. So all it proves is that featless Samurai is slow that's it. But nice try.

But Luffy needed to get on that dog thing to catch up iirc. But that's not the only example anyways, there is many examples of Luffy taking a long time to get places ect. Do I think this makes Luffy's combat speed slow? Of course not. But I'm saying that using low balls on SDS characters is just as bad. Multiple characters lightning timed near the beginning of the series, and then right after that we have Galan jumping across the country extremely quickly, jumping out of Merlin's multi mile casting range when it was already shown her casting time could counter lightning magic (even if it couldn't the feat itself would still be impressive), then we have post power up Meliodas blitzing Galan, Escanor blitzing Estarossa who is faster than that Meliodas, AM Meliodas blitzing a stronger version of Escanor, and the god tiers are even above that.

BOS sins should be at least near lighting timing.

SDS top tiers should be MHS++/lightning speed.

The next option is sub relativistic, which I don't think SDS characters have proven yet, but I wouldn't be surprised of the god tiers were low sub relativistic, but we'll have to wait and see.

One Piece has more strong anti feats than SDS, don’t be bias dude.

Because I've seen you debate against people who lowball One Piece and use anti feats, and I'm not saying you were wrong to do so, I'm just saying you aren't being consistent in your analysis between verses.

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#61 Posted by Jko1 (3087 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1:

Lmao now I'm confused. So you're saying that mhs+>speed of sound isn't a flaw or did Saltysultan say that?

I said:

  • MHS is greater than the speed of sound.
  • The feat in question mentions that Meliodas moved faster than the speed of sound
  • The two statements do not contradict each other
  • It's not an anti-feat

Oh ok that kinda makes more sense now lol.

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#62 Posted by SaltySultan (261 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w: You posting those scans soon? I'm intrigued to know.

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#63 Posted by shirso (4421 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

But Luffy needed to get on that dog thing to catch up iirc.

?? What's your point? Luffy casually reacting to the dog moving at the same speed at Gazelleman just debunks this entire notion of "anti-feat" for him nah? Did you read the thread I linked? Everyone was first freaking out that Luffy couldn't react to sub sonic fodder, then it was pointed out that Luffy didn't make the statement and was distracted in that instance and this entire issue was put to rest.

But that's not the only example anyways, there is many examples of Luffy taking a long time to get places ect.

If you are speaking strictly running/travel speed, yes Luffy isn't as fast as his combat speed. He is incredibly fast in short burst travel but he can't cover say dozens of kilometres at MHS speeds. Even so, post time skip he has run fast enough that the ground caught fire.

Anyway we mean combat speeds in threads like these.

But I'm saying that using low balls on SDS characters is just as bad. Multiple characters lightning timed near the beginning of the series, and then right after that we have Galan jumping across the country extremely quickly, jumping out of Merlin's multi mile casting range when it was already shown her casting time could counter lightning magic (even if it couldn't the feat itself would still be impressive), then we have post power up Meliodas blitzing Galan, Escanor blitzing Estarossa who is faster than that Meliodas, AM Meliodas blitzing a stronger version of Escanor, and the god tiers are even above that.

BOS sins should be at least near lighting timing.

SDS top tiers should be MHS++/lightning speed.

The thing is Sins have multiple anti feats with irrefutable statements, and no other stand alone speed feats in the series being even above Mach 100, let alone, Mach 300 which is lightning speed. No other mainstream shonen or the HST has such explicitly clear cut anti feats and dependence on so much scaling from the first 5 chapters.

Which is why people question the consistency of BoS Mel being a lightning timer and why this thread was made.

Because I've seen you debate against people who lowball One Piece and use anti feats, and I'm not saying you were wrong to do so, I'm just saying you aren't being consistent in your analysis between verses.

OP isn't lowballed, as far as speed is concerned at least. And OP really has no anti-feats for combat speed, take it from me, neither does Naruto or Bleach.

SDS has though, and too many of them to just disregard as "outliers". WHich is the entire point of this thread.

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#64 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: More than half of the anti-feats presented aren't even true anti-feats as explained in this thread.

The others are easily explainable as inconsistent based on other speed feats even if we disregarded the lightening timing feats.

The only one I have even seen that is could be considered a clear cut anti-feat is Zeldris being knocked out for 0.8 seconds and Lucodiel not blitzing. Of course this can easily be explained by 1) Just an inconsistency, 2) Lucodiel thinking he was incapacitated. In any case it isn't a big deal compared to the speed feats we have seen demonstrated.

If you can point to any of the other instances being clear cut anti feats please do.

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#65 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18069 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso:

?? What's your point? Luffy casually reacting to the dog moving at the same speed at Gazelleman just debunks this entire notion of "anti-feat" for him nah? Did you read the thread I linked? Everyone was first freaking out that Luffy couldn't react to sub sonic fodder, then it was pointed out that Luffy didn't make the statement and was distracted in that instance and this entire issue was put to rest.

I never said that anti feat proved anything and I knew that it wasn't enough to disprove all of Luffy's combat speed feats right when I read the chapter.

The thing is Sins have multiple anti feats with irrefutable statements

Such as?

and no other stand alone speed feats in the series being even above Mach 100, let alone, Mach 300 which is lightning speed.

Vivian was able to redirect lightning magic mid flight. Even if the lightning isn't actually lightning speed, attacks at that point in the series should at least be hypersonic to be effective.

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Merlin's cast speed is faster than Vivian's.

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Galan was able to jump multiple miles out of her at least casual hypersonic reaction speed timing.

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This is not a speed difference of a few times, he would probably have to be dozens of times faster than her reaction speed to pull that off, and unless you think Merlin has less than mach 10 reaction speed, chances are he would at least be above mach 100.

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#66 Posted by Warlockmage (9302 posts) - - Show Bio

SDS is becoming the new Bleech... all the warning signs are here.

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#67 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlockmage: It's power levels, bleach does it without the numbers using reiatsu. Dragon Ball started it, Super got rid of it but fans still have multipliers to fall back on.

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#68 Posted by Kallekazikaze (527 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean at least Taizai has lightning speed feats unlike Naruto. But we will go with Light speed because Demon King Meliodas should be just that high up, maybe FTL.

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#69 Posted by JuzaCloud (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: power levels still exist in DBS. They didn't get rid of it. Characters still have scouters. They just aren't the focus anymore.

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#70 Edited by Yray (529 posts) - - Show Bio

Beach and sds are really getting to be alike both heavily relies on power lvl /reitsu to defend certain characters without their stand alone feats,I'm cool with that to an extent but what most people forget about power lvl scaling is that having a higher power lvl than a certain character doesn't mean that all your power set and physical stats necessarily has to be higher than the later ...let's say character A has mountain lvl physical in both durability and strength and moves at mhs+ speeds but has like town lvl magical or energy out put... characters B who has a higher power lvl would have all physical stats at town lvl including durability and only move at hypersonic speeds but would make up for it with country lvl+ magical or energy out put ...which would mean character A still has a chance at winning if he lands a direct hit on character B .. IMO power lvl scaling just simply point out that in a battle the one with the higher power lvl simply has a higher chance at winning and not that he's all round superior to the other ... examples like golden frieza Vs dyspo,frieza having the stats and DC advantage while dyspo having far more speed advantage ,like galan Vs Merlin with Merlin having higher magic power lvl and galan having far superior stats and speed, ...but some debaters pull out the power lvl scaling card and assume that if a character with a lower power lvl can bust a mountain with a punch then the one with a higher one would do even better with a punch...which ruins some good debates especially with the bleach verse

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#71 Posted by zxc6 (656 posts) - - Show Bio

high hypersonic and MHS by powerscaling

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#72 Posted by ovy7 (3090 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: you mean the lance that Mel caught and threw back at him?

No, I mean the lance that the Giant Pig (forgot it's name) ate. This happened at the beginning of the arc, after Galan defeating Mel, but before Mel's powerup IIRC.

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#73 Posted by Streak619 (7748 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Bloodlusted is exaggerating. He was mildly annoyed at the mention of Elizabeth.

He wasn't 'mildly annoyed', he literally couldn't control himself in anger and lashed out at them.

There is nothing in that scene that suggests he was going all out.

He was super triggered clearly. Hendrickson said he was never gonna find Elizbeth or whatever then we see his face darkening(a tool mangakas use to depict intense emotions) because he loves Elizabeth, and then he lashes out, he was dead serious irrefutably.

Subjectively speaking, I can totally see your point, but there is no objective proof in that feat which makes Mel slower than MHS.

Except for the fact that Meliodas needed to go all out to break the sound barrier. Something he should have been able to do so with less than 0.3% of his full speed if he were high MHS. He would not have needed tonget serious to vreak the sound barrier which he did need to.

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#74 Posted by shirso (4421 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: More than half of the anti-feats presented aren't even true anti-feats as explained in this thread.

The others are easily explainable as inconsistent based on other speed feats even if we disregarded the lightening timing feats.

The only one I have even seen that is could be considered a clear cut anti-feat is Zeldris being knocked out for 0.8 seconds and Lucodiel not blitzing. Of course this can easily be explained by 1) Just an inconsistency, 2) Lucodiel thinking he was incapacitated. In any case it isn't a big deal compared to the speed feats we have seen demonstrated.

If you can point to any of the other instances being clear cut anti feats please do.

You can't use the same "Mel wasn't serious" argument to explain every one of those instances away. Gil getting nicked by Mel's at best hypersonic spear throw, the Griamore tea cup fight, Arthur being impressed that Mel broke the sound barrier, all the Sins getting tagged by Guila's explosions countless times when they first fought, there are way too many to list.

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#75 Posted by shirso (4421 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

I never said that anti feat proved anything and I knew that it wasn't enough to disprove all of Luffy's combat speed feats right when I read the chapter.

This is a misleading analogy because the 220 km/h thing was never an anti-feat for Luffybecause Luffy himself did not say it nor had anything to do with it. You can't use what some other featless character said as an "anti feat" for a completely different, established character.

SDS is different because all the anti feats being brought up directly tie to Meliodas himself. It's not as if say Hawk commented that supersonic speed is impressive and people are using that to lowball Meliodas.

Such as?

Many have been mentioned already. Off the top of my head, Gil getting nicked by Mel's at best hypersonic spear throw, the Griamore tea cup fight, Arthur being impressed that Mel broke the sound barrier, all the Sins getting tagged by Guila's explosions countless times when they first fought, there are way too many to list.

You can't also get away every time with the "Mel was toying" argument.

This is not a speed difference of a few times, he would probably have to be dozens of times faster than her reaction speed to pull that off, and unless you think Merlin has less than mach 10 reaction speed, chances are he would at least be above mach 100.

You see it all scales back to Gil's lightning, which is what's problematic in the first place since there's no evidence for it being as fast as natural lightning and no other feats for BoS Sins are at that level, in fact there are anti-feats. We don't take a lightning based attack to be Mach 300 at face value in other series and we discard such feats unless characters have consistently operated at such levels.

For instance, most people wouldn't buy things like Sasuke's Karin being Mach 300, kid Kakashi being a lightning timer, Madara's Light Fang, Skypiea Luffy being a lightning timer or SS arc Ichigo being "fast as lightning". So why give Gil's lightning and NNT the benefit of the doubt when neither of those above verses have anywhere near as many anti feats and are far more consistent and frequent with Mach 3 digits combat speed feats than NNT?

As for Galan, his jump is purely travel speed which everyone agrees. It's not applicable in any way to his cqc combat speed, which is what Mel scales from. Mel didn't react to Galan's jump, just blitzed him in cqc.

The only combat relevant thing Galan did there was jump before Merlin could finish casting her spell, so essentially all he had to do was outreact Merlin, his travel/jump speed did the rest. Even if, for the sake of argument, we assume Merlin has Mach 10 spell casting speed (this all scales from Vivian btw who didn't even react to cloud to ground lightning), Galan doesn't need to be anywhere near Mach 100 to outreact a Mach 10 character. Mach 20-30 speed is overkill.

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#77 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18069 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso:

This is a misleading analogy because the 220 km/h thing was never an anti-feat for Luffybecause Luffy himself did not say it nor had anything to do with it. You can't use what some other featless character said as an "anti feat" for a completely different, established character.

You're right, I meant the One Piece verse in general. That guy was proud of his speed, and we clearly see Wano is full of at least mid tiers.

Gil getting nicked by Mel's at best hypersonic spear throw,

Do we have a time frame on that attack? Not to mention Gil was probably taken off guard.

the Griamore tea cup fight,

How does having an entire fight of an unspecified length before a tea cup can hit the ground be an anti feat? All it proves is they are at least fast enough to do that, it's not like the cup broke, in which he failed.

Arthur being impressed that Mel broke the sound barrier,

Can I see that scan?

all the Sins getting tagged by Guila's explosions countless times when they first fought

Meliodads was able to precision time when her move went off, any time he got hit would be him being not ready for it, unless you can show me an example of him not having the speed to react?

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For instance, most people wouldn't buy things like Sasuke's Karin being Mach 300,

Kirin was mach 300, it was stated to be as fast as natural lightning, and because of that it would be impossible for even someone like Itachi to dodge (but he could react to it with susanoo).

kid Kakashi being a lightning timer,

That feat wasn't on panel and it was said he cut lightning, which means he could have just waited for a bolt to hit the ground, and just cut it before it disappeared, and iirc he was a teen who was already jonin level when he did that, and the feat was considered impressive by other ninja, so Kakashi being a lightning timer with his sharingan's reaction boost is possible.

Madara's Light Fang,

I agree that is a light speed attack.

Skypiea Luffy being a lightning timer

It could be argued he might have just been on the cusp of lightning timing at that point because of that feat, or maybe he had his inner haki helping him with pre cog a bit.

or SS arc Ichigo being "fast as lightning".

That's just a data book metaphor that said he was "fast like lightning".

So why give Gil's lightning and NNT the benefit of the doubt when neither of those above verses have anywhere near as many anti feats and are far more consistent and frequent with Mach 3 digits combat speed feats than NNT?

Meliodas was able to cut a hill in half with the air pressure of swinging a twig, unless that was a magic attack that would pretty much be a striking speed feat.

The swing of Galan's sword cut distant mountain's in half, he would have to be swinging at EXTREME speeds to be able to do that.

Galan doesn't need to be anywhere near Mach 100 to outreact a Mach 10 character. Mach 20-30 speed is overkill.

But he didn't just out react her, he moved multiple miles and still out-reacted her. If he moved from where he was standing, and blitzed Merlin and cut her in half, I would completely agree, but he didn't just close the gap, he moved the multi mile distance before she could react, which is pretty impressive.

To put in in a real life scenario, a pro baseball player can react to balls thrown at around 100 mph. Make it 200 or 300 mph and they probably couldn't anymore, as you are saying. But no move the player back a few miles, then even at 200 or 300 mph they would have a much easier time. Now lets say all they have to do is click a button before the ball reaches them (similar to Merlin casually casting a spell), you could make the ball 1,000 mph and from a few miles away they would be able to click the button before it reaches them.

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#78 Posted by Streak619 (7748 posts) - - Show Bio
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#80 Posted by SaltySultan (261 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w: Are you going to post those microsecond Meliodas scans? Not trying to be rude or anything, just interested as I'm 100% sure I'm not aware of these feats.

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#81 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@saltysultan: meh.....ill get around to it when I have time, I'm getting tired of the sins being slept on anyways. Hell that one scan with Zel should practically end all conversations concerning speed but every one keeps screaming inconsistent so I gotta go from the top.

Also the teacup feat being 'street level' is the most disgusting lowball I've ever seen.

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#82 Posted by AlphaQ (6355 posts) - - Show Bio

The anti-feats are actually quite convincing. If Meliodas breaking the sound barrier is considered a big feat in-universe then it doesn't really look that good for them.

Honestly, I think the speed fetish we have on CV leads to dramatically overrated numbers for the speed of a lot of characters, including anime and comic characters mind you.

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#83 Edited by SaltySultan (261 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphaq: I mean all that feat suggest is that Mel was moving faster than mach 1. It isn't really an antifeat and why does it matter what Arthur thinks is fast? There are more than 4 lightning timing feats, multiple high hypersonic feats such as Mel explosion timing and Hawks Mom dodging meteors and most of the antifeats are like in the millisecond and second range which is pretty inconsistent considering the characters are always moving at FTE and supersonic speeds. It's pretty safe to assume the characters are far above lightning timing.

Hell, Mel can even send debris flying at hypersonic speeds.

The teacup feat isn't even a real antifeat, it just shows that the characters are fast enough to do that and like even then it's definitely above hypersonic at least.

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#84 Posted by AlphaQ (6355 posts) - - Show Bio

@saltysultan: Arthur was able to keep up with the characters at the start of the series at the very least, I'm not sure of his feats later in the series. But if he's amazed at supersonic speed it doesn't really bode well for other characters at that time in the story.

The teacup is an anti-feat for Griamore, if not for Meliodas.

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#85 Posted by SkySanji (4848 posts) - - Show Bio

These "anti feats" are the type of thing that happen in pretty much every manga/comic ever.

We have multiple instances of BOS Mel casually reacting to cloud to ground lightening and only very weak "anti-feats" to refute that. Some aren't even anti feats.

You could find this stuff in any Manga. The idea that people in a manga must be constantly blitzing/acting at their full speed constantly is absurd. If that was the case Naruto and Bleach 's entire storyline should take place over the span of a couple days based on their speed.

This.

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#86 Edited by SkySanji (4848 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w said:

Holy crap Mel not even lightning timing? Meliodas is a legitimate Microsecond to low-end nanosecond timer based off sheer indisputable canon alone(MHS to relativistic). No scaling whatsoever is needed.

I'll be back momentarily with the scans.

Agreed, just the same Bleach boys here to downplay

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#87 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3573 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see why this is still an issue. BOS Mel broke the sound barrier, reacted to explosions, and reacted to lightning. Anyone saying NnT is below MHS+ is low balling just for the sake of it.

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#88 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

*Walks into courtroom with a white suit with a fancy blue vest before tightening my indigo tie and adjusting matching colored arm sash*

Your honor the crimes committed against my client are in all cases absurd it just shows clear blatant denial. Meliodas' combat speed in which cases he throws hundreds (and even stated thousand)of bladestrikes with a simple gesture:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

makes him one of the best close quarters blademasters in fiction. The manga has focused on attack/counter speed since the very beginning of the series, it is how Meliodas fights period.

This is evident by freaking fodder throwing dozens of slashes with a mere step and Ban casually dancing around it to get a haircut:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

As well as a plethora of other silly feats like that one.

Disclaimer:

Ok, let's get this show started, this is coming from a Nardo fanboy who believes Edo Madara craps on the verse by simply getting angry. So best believe their is no form of favoritism or Bias when analyzing these feats; all of it is indisputable canon fact derived from the Manga which I will be using reasonable variables to quantify the absolute lowest possible outcome. Before reading any of this, I suggest you read the Manga yourself to get an idea of the panel flow and how the manga is illustrated.

Now that that's out of the way I feel I should address the Galand feat as people are forgetting several MASSIVE factors in the feat. And some even clissify it as a non-combat feat which is ludicrous. let's take a look at it again:

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  1. Galan didn't friggin move until AFTER Merlin snapped, we'll just pretend Galan out ran the sound of the snap instead of the actual spell (which has speed feats)
  2. He completely dissapears before Meliodas touches the ground, she states the distance.
  3. He reappears before Merlin can lower her arm and delivers a strike in the very next page.

So let's get the math going, Merlin is at the absolute most 20 feet from Galand meaning he escaped before the speed of sound could reach 20ft, sound moves 1095fps so sound would travel 20 ft in approx 20 miliseconds(18 technically but I hate math).

So if Galan escaped in 20 miliseconds, now let's use the distance of several miles. 3 Miles per 20 miliseconds equates to 150 MPS or 540,000MpH or mach 723. We in the ballpark yet? Well don't worry I bought extra tickets, let's look at the version of Mel Galan fodderized.

Anyone else remember Mel causally blitzing multiple opponents in the span of 200 miliseconds?

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0.2 seconds or 200miliseconds/4 = 50 milliseconds. So let's say that's 100yards/300ft away, the initial blitz in which Meliodas casually closed the distance 300ft per 50 miliseconds is 6000fps or 4,090mph. In Which case we can SOUNDLY say Meliodas can perceive miliseconds in slow motion, bonus that this was BoS far before even Hendrickson. Bonus that King did this aswell, someone whose not necessarily known for speed showing how casual it was.

Next we have the teacup feat which someone laughably lowballed to street level, once again let's get the full scope of the feat:

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  1. The table is about 2ft tall judging from its porportion to Meliodas, he was in the doorway as it just tilted and when it was airborne he appeared by griamore. Notice the sequences with Elizabeth raising her head in slow motion throughout.
  2. The actual fight doesn't begin until AFTER the cup is litterally a quarter to halfway of the way down, as evident of grimore ignoring it then moving to draw his blade, as Meliodas stops him.
  3. After the above happens the cup is shown to be slightly past the halfway point, where a series of strikes occur then it is revealed the cup only traversed another quarter of the full distance.
  4. After that Meliodas ends it with a strike and as it is near inches from the floor he finally catches the cup.

Freefall speed is 9 Meters per second or 29.5 fps which would mean the fight happened in roughly 0.03 seconds if we're using the halfway point where it began of a single foot, double that to get the time of the Full length drop, halve that to get the quarter length sequences.

Now that its for certain that even fodder characters are having exchanges at speeds as to where Miliseconds are moving in slowmotion; Hendrickson couldn't even see Meliodas move as he got blitzed before he could even make a movement:

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Human perception is 10 - 13 miliseconds to register an image, and 20 miliseconds to actually move. If we maximum lowball Hendrickson to human levels we can WITHOUT A DOUBT place Mel's physical movement within the single digit milisecond range.

Galand fodderized this same version of Meliodas in cqc:

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Then we have Meliodas returning the favor with a mere gesture when he regains his power, he simply nudges his blade and utterly destroys him so quickly he didn't know he was hit.

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Using the timeframe we got from Galans previous feat it's quite safe to say he can operate/percieve in that timespan correct? Well I see about a dozen slashes....so 0.02/ 12 means each slash was delivered in the span of a tad bit over a single milisecond(0.0016 to be exact).

Supposed Anti-Feats:

Let's go ahead and end this debate on Gils lightning, some people seem to be under the impression that he doesn't use Natural lightning which is absolutely fictitious. Magic in the verse manipulates nature in order for the attack to be made, changing its shape requires more skill as they use their own energy (Sound familiar?) A perfect example of this is King using magic to manipulate the nutrients in a wooden stick:

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So yes, if Gil is using magic to concentrate lightning from a cloud it is most definitely natural lightning:

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When he's making his own lightning then that's where it's no longer a natural source. For example, Kirin is natural lightning, Chidori is not.

Next the supposed claim by King Arthur whose surprised by him being Faster than sound, that statement holds absolutely no weight as people are forgetting at the time he's relatively Liz-tier in terms of usefulness at that time and this was before Albion arc where he was stated to have needed training:

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Litterally get out of town for attempting to legitimize that statement.

Then we have the supposed 'being tagged by explosions' lowball when Gulia can litterally create plot device explosions from thin air most of the time:

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And her flares are far from slow which is what triggers the explosion when she's using her lance, so I'm not sure how anyone can say their being tagged solely by the explosion:

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Ok, let's wrap this up before it gets tedious:

Conclusion:

  • BoS Mel was having fights in the spans of miliseconds and is a lightning timer
  • Holy Knights litterally have clearly visible hypersonic combat speed
  • Contextual lowballing is the worst kind of lowballing.
  • NnT in general has better Combat speed depictions than 95% of HST, nobody can replicate Mel's striking Speed.
  • To say practically anything in NNT is street level Is a horrific lowball. The very first chapter would immediately put that claim to rest.
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#89 Edited by shirso (4421 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w:

Freefall speed is 9 Meters per second or 29.5 fps which would mean the fight happened in roughly 0.03 seconds if we're using the halfway point where it began of a single foot, double that to get the time of the Full length drop, halve that to get the quarter length sequences.

Ok this is just wrong ( I mean there are many things wrong in what you said), I assume you googled terminal velocity in air, well that isn't valid in so short distances. For a situation like this, you would need to take the acceleration due to gravity (=9.8 m/s^2) and use basic kinematics to calculate the time.

For a distance of about 1 feet that time would be about 0.17s

A far cry from your 0.03 s

It's honestly common sense. Human perception time is 0.2s. If a cup fell 2 ft in 0.06s, it would have been FTE to humans when clearly falling cups aren't FTE.

Your honor the crimes committed against my client are in all cases absurd it just shows clear blatant denial. Meliodas' combat speed in which cases he throws hundreds (and even stated thousand)of bladestrikes with a simple gesture:

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makes him one of the best close quarters blademasters in fiction. The manga has focused on attack/counter speed since the very beginning of the series, it is how Meliodas fights period.

This is evident by freaking fodder throwing dozens of slashes with a mere step and Ban casually dancing around it to get a haircut:

Um hundred slices in a second is not even sonic speed dude, assuming you move 1 meter per slice, which isn't even the case for a midget like Meliodas.

Thousand slices in some unspecified time frame is what Meliodas needed AM to accomplish lol.

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#90 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@hope_w:

Ok this is just wrong ( I mean there are many things wrong in what you said), I assume you googled terminal velocity in air, well that isn't valid in so short distances. For a situation like this, you would need to take the acceleration due to gravity (=9.8 m/s^2) and use basic kinematics to calculate the time.

Terminal velocity is the direct opposite of Freefall, I didn't google anything more or less used common sense. What drag is present in this equation bud? I see you didn't read the damn disclaimer either, It's roughly calc'd by estimated distance.

For a distance of about 1 feet that time would be about 0.17s

Equation wasn't used nor is it applicable.

A far cry from your 0.03 s

A projectile moving roughly 30fps would cross a distance of a foot in 0.03 seconds. I'm sorry if that's a bit too complicated for you.

It's honestly common sense. Human perception time is 0.2s. If a cup fell 2 ft in 0.06s, it would have been FTE to humans when clearly falling cups aren't FTE.

Too bad this is based off an illustration rather than your own conjecture, once again i suggest you read the disclaimer sir.

Also human perception being 2 tenths of a second is comical when humans can register images at faster than 1000 frames per second.

Um hundred slices in a second is not even sonic speed dude, assuming you move 1 meter per slice, which isn't even the case for a midget like Meliodas.

Uh.....too bad one of the largest points of the post was Mel having fights in miliseconds time by BoS.

Thousand slices in some unspecified time frame is what Meliodas needed AM to accomplish lol.

Not gonna bother wasting anymore tome with you as you quite clearly didn't read or digest anything properly to make an accurate rebuttal.

I mean he more or less simply passed him with a blitz and slashed him 1000 times....weve seen Mel blitz multiple people in the span of 0.2 seconds. Simple math puts that at 5000 slashes a second which would make each slash delivered 0.0002 seconds. Please leave me alone you're already giving me headaches.

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#91 Posted by shirso (4421 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w:

Terminal velocity is the direct opposite of Freefall, I didn't google anything more or less used common sense. What drag is present in this equation bud? I see you didn't read the damn disclaimer either, It's roughly calc'd by estimated distance.

So you got a free fall velocity of 9m/s out of nowhere? Citations please.

As for air drag, that becomes relevant only when an object is falling for an appreciable distance. Not for very short distances of a few feet like here.

Equation wasn't used nor is it applicable.

Um yes it is. You can't use free fall velocity in air for such short distances. Free fall velocity is achieved when the acceleration due to gravity and air drag (which depends on the object's velocity) balances out, and hence the object keeps falling at constant velocity. An object has to fall for an appreciable distance and build up enough velocity before air drag becomes relevant, and that isn't the case for very short distances like these.

A projectile moving roughly 30fps would cross a distance of a foot in 0.03 seconds. I'm sorry if that's a bit too complicated for you.

So a tea cup falling from a table of height 2 feet would be FTE to human eyes? Why don't you try that right now and come back.

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#93 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio
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simple Google search warrants:

  • Freefall =/= terminal velocity
  • Freefall speed of all objects regardless of mass
  • Height isn't a factor as it's not reaching its top speed

Without air resistence the Mass offsets the acceleration causing them to fall at the same speed. This is the second law of motion and is indisputable.

Once again folks, read the disclaimer, the sheer incompetence present after its been explained how I got that number is positively astounding. I guess natural lightning touches the ground in a milisecond because it happened that way in a manga. My god use the thinking muscle atleast once.

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#94 Edited by Streak619 (7748 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w: 53 m/s is the terminal velocity achieved by a sky diver who jumps 50,000ft above sea level. The terminal velocity of a cup that falls from a table will not be the same as the sky diver because the sky diver accelerates through a massively greater distance, whereas the cup accelerates for only a meter, they're incomparable.

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#95 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: idk why you're telling me this as terminal velocity is the polar opposite of Freefall and it wasn't even bought up by me nor was it apart of any point I made. I explained how I got the simple number over several times now, I can do no more.

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#96 Posted by ourmanuel (11933 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w: your calculation is faulty.

The teacup feet would’ve occurred in about 0.2 seconds at least.

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#97 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: the only thing faulty is your own reading abilities aswell as basic understanding of math. Once again I emplore you to read the disclaimer before responding but since you're a usual time waster I don't think I'll bother any further. I mean it's directly stated I'm using the estimated distance on panel and the speed of a freefalling projectile but hey let's just roll with 0.2 seconds (which is something you got by guesstimating even more variables, schweet.)

which part of that contradicts the point of Meliodas having full fights in the span of miliseconds? Which is a rebuttal to Meliodas striking speed? What does it change besides the indisputable fact that a proven weaker and slower version of himself is still operating at speeds that perceive miliseconds in slow motion?

So again enlighten me, what was your reason for tagging me other than the fact you just genuinely like to think you're 'debating' against me?

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#98 Posted by Streak619 (7748 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w: You said freefall speed is 9 m/s which is not true since free fall is a state of constant acceleration due to Earth's gravity.

Earth's gravitational acceleration is 9.8 m/s, but that' something else entirely

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