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#1 Posted by nfactor1995 (12986 posts) - - Show Bio

If Count Dooku and Yoda were to engage in a lightsabers only fight with both of them going all out (Yoda is not holding back at all), how close would it be? Would Dooku get stomped? Would he put up a good fight? How good of a fight is it? Fight takes place in a neutral setting.

Reasons please.

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#2 Posted by echostarlord117 (5617 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not a good fight at all. Dooku would get stomped by a non-jobbing Yoda in a lightsaber duel. At best, he'd prove to be a nuisance. All the evidence you need is in AotC.

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#3 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfactor1995: yoda can move faster than mace can react,

it ends with a blitz unless yoda is holding back

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#4 Edited by tenman18 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

During the AOTC fight Yoda was holding back and from what someone told me Dooku was amped (fighting better than normal) in that fight.

Yoda would speedblitz Dooku and incapacitate him. It's not that Dooku is bad, he's one of the best duelists in Star Wars. But Yoda is on a whole different level.

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#5 Edited by juiceboks (24960 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda would be by far the strongest opponent Dooku ever faced, which combined with his noticeably superior speed and skill means that Dooku's getting soundly beaten.

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#6 Posted by Geistalt (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Not even.

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#7 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@tenman18: @kbroskywalker:

Since Yoda was not holding back, and several sources state otherwise, your wrong. Flat out wrong. Canon sources from the film and Canon Encyclopedia's state nothing of Yoda holding back, in fact states the opposite from Yoda himself.

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So your clearly wrong. Thanks for playing.

As for the question, Yoda "soundly beats" Dooku, yes. But their will be a struggle and time frame, however small that may be, before Dooku loses. The best way to judge is the film itself. What is shown on film for sabers is what would happen if both went all out. Dooku would lose, but Yoda would apply effort and time to do it. He is not Speed Blitzing shit.

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#8 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: nothing you provided says yoda wasn't holding back and the junior novelization says he was.

Yoda matched sidiousun terms of speed, sidious was able to move faster than a non amped mace could react, mace is comparable to dooku speed wise, yoda can blitz dooku.

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#9 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker:

nothing you provided says yoda wasn't holding back and the junior novelization says he was.

Junior Novel is consider non canon, even when compared to Legends. its in the same boat as Boba Fett matching Vader lol. The Official Novel states Yoda was not holding back, and Yoda stated himself he was not holding back when he states he cannot let Dooku escape at all. He was serious and all material supports or states this. So.... too bad?

Yoda matched sidiousun terms of speed, sidious was able to move faster than a non amped mace could react, mace is comparable to dooku speed wise, yoda can blitz dooku.

Nonsense. If Sidious was so fast, then why did Kit Fisto reacted? Kit not only reacted, but block several litghtsaber attacks before dying. So your wrong there too. Also, add to this, both current and official canon state nothing of a amp at all. Only the novel. The movie never states there was a amp, nor does the Official Enclodedia that came out recently that discusses the fight. Skywalker was never there to witness the fight in the movie either, which means that part of the novel is not canon to the movie.

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So your wrong again.

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#10 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly....no more than 3/10

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#11 Posted by tenman18 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

This

Yoda matched sidious in terms of speed, sidious was able to move faster than a non amped mace could react, mace is comparable to dooku speed wise, yoda can blitz dooku.

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#12 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: none of the quotes you mentioned say yoda wasn't holding back, and the junior novelization is non canon to legends sonce when? Also it perfectly aligns with the movie, its the adult novelizations that often don't line up.

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#13 Edited by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Edited by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda wins in seconds. He already gave Sidious a tough time.

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#15 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker: the first qoute states Yoda was not holding back. Yoda said he cannot afford to allow Dooku to escape. Various sources state the were evenly match enough in force to not beat the other as well till Dooku found himself on the losing end of a drawn out saber fight.

Deal with it. Yoda never blitz anyone of that caliber not capable of it regardless what your non canon junior novel for kids that contradicts every other source says.

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#16 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Edited by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz said:

@kbroskywalker: the first qoute states Yoda was not holding back. Yoda said he cannot afford to allow Dooku to escape. Various sources state the were evenly match enough in force to not beat the other as well till Dooku found himself on the losing end of a drawn out saber fight.

Deal with it. Yoda never blitz anyone of that caliber not capable of it regardless what your non canon junior novel for kids that contradicts every other source says.

the first quote said absolutely nothing about yoda not holding back

Various sources state the were evenly match enough in force

uh huh:

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Are you actually disputing that yoda could stomp dooku with the force?

dooku was matched by yoda, not the other way around

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#18 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17003 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda wins, handily.

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#19 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2678 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals off, Yoda stomps.

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#20 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker:

So ignoring the part of Yoda stating he cannot Dooku escape suggest he held back? The Novels and Encycs stating they were on mostly even ground while clashing with insane levels of power suggest holding back? Ignorance by you is not a argument.

Yoda force pushing someone means jack shit in the scheme of things. Sidious force choking a submissive Dooku means even less.

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#21 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker:

So ignoring the part of Yoda stating he cannot Dooku escape suggest he held back? The Novels and Encycs stating they were on mostly even ground while clashing with insane levels of power suggest holding back? Ignorance by you is not a argument.

Yoda force pushing someone means jack shit in the scheme of things. Sidious force choking a submissive Dooku means even less.

you're misquoting the quotes you've provided

and no dooku is not=yoda in the force

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#22 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker:

you're misquoting the quotes you've provided

I provided the qoutes of what Yoda said and backed by sources on how close the match was between them. Not my problem you dont like the facts.

and no dooku is not=yoda in the force

I never said Dooku is = to Yoda in Force. Nor do the quotes. What I said, and shown is no way in hell is Yoda speed blitzing Dooku no matter what dreaming fanboys like to think.

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#23 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: not a single one says yoda was not holding back, and yoda has moved faster than mace can react so yes, yoda can blitz mace.

I never said Dooku is = to Yoda in Force.

"Various sources state the were evenly match enough in force to not beat the other"

yoda couldn't beat dooku in the force according to you

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#24 Edited by LordOfTheLight (2678 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz

Nonsense. If Sidious was so fast, then why did Kit Fisto reacted? Kit not only reacted, but block several litghtsaber attacks before dying

He blocked 2 or 3. I am pretty sure that at-least qualifies as a near speedblitz. Not only was his form suitable for multiple blades, already giving him an advantage, but Vaapad/Darkness amped Windu, the very same that was able to stalemate, and later defeat Sidious in pure lightsabers, had already intervened. The fact that Sidious near blitzed Fisto even then, is just supremely impressive. No, there won't be any titanic struggle, Dooku gets stomped, end of story( if this is morals off). And, yeah, he does last a couple of seconds.

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#25 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker: Now we are trolling? Sounds like it.

not a single one says yoda was not holding back, and yoda has moved faster than mace can react so yes, yoda can blitz mace.

Already debunk this. Yoda stated he could not let Dooku escape. He was not holding back and wanted to capture him at all cost. He could not overpower Dooku easy in Force to catch him either. Deal with it.

"Various sources state the were evenly match enough in force to not beat the other"

yoda couldn't beat dooku in the force according to you

Key word fanboy. "evenly match enough" Nice try to twist my words.

@lordofthelight:

He blocked 2 or 3. I am pretty sure that at-least qualifies as a near speedblitz. Not only was his form suitable for multiple blades, already giving him an advantage, but Vaapad/Darkness amped Windu, the very same that was able to stalemate, and later defeat Sidious in pure lightsabers, had already intervened. The fact that Sidious near blitzed Fisto even then, is just supremely impressive.

Nonsense. Speed Blitz means you attack someone before they can react. Flash vs Spider man example would be a "speed blitz". Attacking someone, and overwhelming them with speed is not a speed blitz. Just superior speed. Not to mention Vaapad only amps you in Legends sources, not canon. In canon Mace was never amped. No such thing as amp through Vaapad. Just one of the many inconsistency of Legends material to the higher priority canon feats.

Fact is 2 characters were speed blitz fine, and Fisto was not, Mace being there or not. That simple.

No, there won't be any titanic struggle, Dooku gets stomped, end of story( if this is morals off).

Too bad canon and legend sources state your wrong. Also what is morals off? Is this Yoda embracing Darkside? Sure. But that is not what is discussed, we are not arguing a "what if" character. We are arguing Yoda not holding back, adhering to Jedi teachings like he had vs Sidious himself, vs Dooku. This match happen already twice and Yoda never blitz Dooku at all or easily overpower him to capture him.

Conclusion

So while again, Yoda wins 10/10 fights. No one is arguing that, just this nonsense Dooku gets Speed Blitz.

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#26 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:

Yoda stated he could not let Dooku escape.

He did not in any of the quotes you provided. Its assumed yoda intends to stop dooku for obvious reasons but not once is it ever mentioned that he isn't holding back. Nothing you've provided contradicts the junior novelization.

"evenly match enough" Nice try to twist my words.

I used the exact words you used, you're trying to say dooku is close enough in the force that yoda can't outright beat him through force power which is complete bs.

Fact is 2 characters were speed blitz fine, and Fisto was not, Mace being there or not. That simple.

Fact is sidious moved faster than a non amped mace could react, sidious was not faster than yoda, mace had no trouble with dooku's speed in their skirmish on bos pity/ Kit fisto parried a couple of strikes, he was still down in seconds

In canon Mace was never amped. No such thing as amp through Vaapad. Just one of the many inconsistency of Legends material to the higher priority canon feats.

I was unaware this was a canon only discussion, nothing in canon contradicts that mace was amped.

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#27 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker:

He did not in any of the quotes you provided. Its assumed yoda intends to stop dooku for obvious reasons but not once is it ever mentioned that he isn't holding back. Nothing you've provided contradicts the junior novelization.

Junior Novel is non canon and contradicts a lot of things in the canon and even legends. I already debunk your crap claims many times now. Just deal with it.

I used the exact words you used, you're trying to say dooku is close enough in the force that yoda can't outright beat him through force power which is complete bs.

Close enough is right. Yoda would beat him, would win, that does not change the fact its not easy. Stop crying about me proving you wrong 20 different ways.

Fact is sidious moved faster than a non amped mace could react, sidious was not faster than yoda, mace had no trouble with dooku's speed in their skirmish on bos pity/ Kit fisto parried a couple of strikes, he was still down in seconds

I was unaware this was a canon only discussion, nothing in canon contradicts that mace was amped.

Too bad nothing in canon, which even Legends is base off of, have nothing to say or show Mace was amped. Mace being amped only exist in the ROTS novelization fight scene, which is non canon due to the fight with Sidious not happening the way it was portrayed in the movie at all.

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So your debunk yet again. So sad, too bad.

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#28 Posted by depinhom (13506 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty.

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#29 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:

Junior Novel is non canon and contradicts a lot of things in the canon and even legends. I already debunk your crap claims many times now. Just deal with it.

Its legends, nothing you've provided contradicts it

Close enough is right. Yoda would beat him, would win, that does not change the fact its not easy. Stop crying about me proving you wrong 20 different ways.

It is not close enough that yoda can't outright beat him through the force, yoda outclasses dooku in every single regard

Too bad nothing in canon, which even Legends is base off of, have nothing to say or show Mace was amped. Mace being amped only exist in the ROTS novelization fight scene, which is non canon due to the fight with Sidious not happening the way it was portrayed in the movie at all.

There were a couple of minor details off about the mace vs sidious novelization portrayal, absolutely nothing in canon contradicts anything about mace being amped. Per numerous sources, yoda, who sidious fought, is indisputably>mace windu, sidious>mace.

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#30 Posted by noobsnowman (3661 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda is not stomping, but he probably wins every time.

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#31 Edited by LordOfTheLight (2678 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz Had Yoda held back to the same extent that he did with Dooku, vs Sidious, he would have been stomped. He did not. That is morals off, do you understand?

Nonsense. Speed Blitz means you attack someone before they can react. Flash vs Spider man example would be a "speed blitz". Attacking someone, and overwhelming them with speed is not a speed blitz. Just superior speed. Not to mention Vaapad only amps you in Legends sources, not canon. In canon Mace was never amped. No such thing as amp through Vaapad. Just one of the many inconsistency of Legends material to the higher priority canon feats.

Fact is 2 characters were speed blitz fine, and Fisto was not, Mace being there or not. That simple.

And I am sure, getting in a couple of fluke strikes, while your opponent is being matched by another opponent, just as good as him, and then getting dispatched, qualifies you for speedblitz. Nice try, I was the one who made an argument for Windu despite his amps, about his prowess and force powers( which by the way, even while normal, surpass Dooku's substantially), but his amp is unquestionable. There is sound logic in the argument, and SW fans usually debate on GL canon. In GL canon, Mace is amped. In Disney, canon, there is no evidence to the contrary, just left void, so yeah, Mace is pretty much amped.

Are you mad, bro? Great logic! Fisto, is not even able to hold his own for more than a couple of seconds, while he has help, that matches his opponent perfectly. Meanwhile, his form is perfect for countering his opponent, his opponent has lost the element of surprise, and all he does is manage to block a couple of blows from Palpatine. The fact that you so blatantly disregard Mace's presence makes me wonder humanity.

Too bad canon and legend sources state your wrong. Also what is morals off? Is this Yoda embracing Darkside? Sure. But that is not what is discussed, we are not arguing a "what if" character. We are arguing Yoda not holding back, adhering to Jedi teachings like he had vs Sidious himself, vs Dooku. This match happen already twice and Yoda never blitz Dooku at all or easily overpower him to capture him.

Deal with fanboys.

Yeah, this is the guy that said Maul beats Starkiller. The very same who said Anakin would just humiliate TFU2 Starkiller in the force, and he accuses others of being fanboys.

Yeah, too bad, canon and legends sources have Yoda virtually equal to Sidious. Too bad they have him( Sidious) curbstomping Dooku utterly. Too bad they have Dooku worshipping him like a god. Too bad that they have Yoda holding back massively each time he faces Dooku.

Dooku is leagues beneath Yoda or Sidious. To argue otherwise is just laughable. There is a direct explanation for your tripe that "Dooku matched Yoda", in both canon and Legends. The fact that every other comparison throughout directly contradicts the fact that Dooku is even close to Yoda. The guy couldn't shield himself from Kenobi, whilst actively countering( in Labyrinth of Evil), and the fanboy argues he wouldn't get stomped by Yoda.

Yeah, this is the very guy that says feats>quotes, says that Valkorion beats Sidious( when both feats and quotes destroy his argument), and DE Sidious, at that! Pathetically hilarious. Meanwhile, by feats Yoda destroys Dooku. But he holds on to quotes that say that they were evenly matched, and disregards the quotes that say Yoda held back. Massively. And then he accuses others of being fanboys.

Do you realize how obvious you are? At-least attempt to disguise yourself fanboy whiz.

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#32 Posted by Geistalt (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: Don't give him the idea to conceal his public wanking; this is WAY more amusing.

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#33 Edited by Emperordmb (1987 posts) - - Show Bio

Dayum... @kbroskywalker is slaughtering on this thread.

Yeah Yoda stomps... and it isn't close... at all.

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#34 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: Oh brother.

And I am sure, getting in a couple of fluke strikes, while your opponent is being matched by another opponent, just as good as him, and then getting dispatched, qualifies you for speedblitz. Nice try, I was the one who made an argument for Windu despite his amps, about his prowess and force powers( which by the way, even while normal, surpass Dooku's substantially), but his amp is unquestionable. There is sound logic in the argument, and SW fans usually debate on GL canon. In GL canon, Mace is amped. In Disney, canon, there is no evidence to the contrary, just left void, so yeah, Mace is pretty much amped.

So nothing said is proof uit exist in canon? This is not only some bullshit logic, but tupical SW fan logic. Glad I can debate sense in comic vs comic or even Mange vs mange threads where this logic logic is frown on :/

Are you mad, bro? Great logic! Fisto, is not even able to hold his own for more than a couple of seconds, while he has help, that matches his opponent perfectly. Meanwhile, his form is perfect for countering his opponent, his opponent has lost the element of surprise, and all he does is manage to block a couple of blows from Palpatine. The fact that you so blatantly disregard Mace's presence makes me wonder humanity.

Did Sidious kill two ther Jedi in one attack whether mace was there or not? Yes. Did he do the same to Kit? Nope. By the same argument Kit should been easier to kill now that two other Jedi were killed off the bat. More a showing of skill than speed blitz. Dooku is on the same level of Anakin, and mace, I still dont see why any of those two are getting speed blitz by Sidious or Yoda, so why is Dooku being blitz? He is not. Many sources and proof show otherwise. Sorry.

Yeah, this is the guy that said Maul beats Starkiller.

In Sabers yes. In force, not so much. So...

The very same who said Anakin would just humiliate TFU2 Starkiller in the force, and he accuses others of being fanboys.

Anakin does beat Starkiller in sabers, murders him, and matches in force in the form of Force Amps, as well wild card of tapping potential. when Anakin taps his potential, he murders Starkiller's feats. Thats a fact. So why bring up this stuff to justify your cray cray ideas of Yoda speed blitzing Dooku is pretty silly. Unless your arguing a point I may made a year ago when I was still getting into SWs. Then your just sad to bring something up that long ago lol.

Oh wait, this sad attempt is to discredit me since you cannot discredit my counters, got it. Well you failed either way.

Also not sure why you quoted my Fanboy comment, that was not directed at you but KBro. the worst debater on this site, where he was even ban when in the first few months for his prattling. I even deleted that within 10 seconds of posting it figuring it might offend. Dont get mad.

Yeah, too bad, canon and legends sources have Yoda virtually equal to Sidious. Too bad they have him( Sidious) curbstomping Dooku utterly. Too bad they have Dooku worshipping him like a god. Too bad that they have Yoda holding back massively each time he faces Dooku.

Its funny, multiple sources state Yoda is not equal to Sidious. At all. They state Yoda is outclass by Sids. @shootingnova and @jedixman can confirm this as well. Also what does worshiping someone like a god means they are outclass in power and speed to the point they get speed blitz?

Dooku match Yoda enough that the fight was not easy for Yoda, even if Yoda wins 10/10. Same for Yoda is outclass by Sids and match him. So...

Dooku is leagues beneath Yoda or Sidious.

More like a single tier below ROTS Sidious and Yoda, but lets ignore context, you seem good at that.

To argue otherwise is just laughable.

Only if we are talking post ROTS. Yeah. Too bad we are not.

There is a direct explanation for your tripe that "Dooku matched Yoda", in both canon and Legends.

You say match as in equals. I do not. I say match as in Dooku made Yoda work for it. This whole argument is about Dooku getting speed blitz, and your looking foolish so far bringing up shit that has nothing to do with that point.

The fact that every other comparison throughout directly contradicts the fact that Dooku is even close to Yoda. The guy couldn't shield himself from Kenobi, whilst actively countering( in Labyrinth of Evil), and the fanboy argues he wouldn't get stomped by Yoda.

PIS/CIS/WIS pick one. Likely WIS as Dooku stomps Obi Wan all the time, and beats Obi Wan and Anakin all the time till ROTS. So your one contradicting example is pretty sad on your part as proof of my "fanboyness".

Yeah, this is the very guy that says feats>quotes, says that Valkorion beats Sidious( when both feats and quotes destroy his argument), and DE Sidious, at that! Pathetically hilarious. Meanwhile, by feats Yoda destroys Dooku. But he holds on to quotes that say that they were evenly matched, and disregards the quotes that say Yoda held back. Massively. And then he accuses others of being fanboys.

Do you realize how obvious you are? At-least attempt to disguise yourself fanboy whiz.

Look, I am getting tired of tearing you and Kbro up. Both of you are trying to argue me and label me as a fanboy for arguing Dooku is equals to Yoda, like Dooku can beat Yoda \. I never once said this. only that Dooku much like Mace Windu, Anakin, or people of that tier would not get speed blitz by Yoda. So quit being a fanboy and making something out of nothing mate.

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#35 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda is not stomping, but he probably wins every time.

^

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#36 Edited by LordOfTheLight (2678 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz Listen bro, I am also getting tired of annihilating your arguments, so this is going to be my last reply, in case you post similar ones.

So nothing said is proof uit exist in canon? This is not only some bullshit logic, but tupical SW fan logic. Glad I can debate sense in comic vs comic or even Mange vs mange threads where this logic logic is frown on :/

What utter nonsense. It exists in Legends and GL canon, it was once canon, and is legitimately taken here. It is outright confirmed( by yourself), that so long as it doesn't contradict, in the ROTS novel, it is canon. Star Wars isn't Manga, do you understand?

Did Sidious kill two ther Jedi in one attack whether mace was there or not? Yes. Did he do the same to Kit? Nope. By the same argument Kit should been easier to kill now that two other Jedi were killed off the bat. More a showing of skill than speed blitz. Dooku is on the same level of Anakin, and mace, I still dont see why any of those two are getting speed blitz by Sidious or Yoda, so why is Dooku being blitz? He is not. Many sources and proof show otherwise. Sorry.

Sidious had the element of surprise, and Mace was on the defensive initially. It could not have been clearer in the video. You would know if you actually remembered something, instead of just wanking. No sources show anything other than Sidious can blitz Anakin. Yoda has blitzed 3 council members all better ones than what Palpatine blitzed, and each of them would give normal Mace, Dooku a good fight, so your logic is again utterly crushed.

Its funny, multiple sources state Yoda is not equal to Sidious. At all. They state Yoda is outclass by Sids. @shootingnova and @jedixman can confirm this as well. Also what does worshiping someone like a god means they are outclass in power and speed to the point they get speed blitz?

Dooku match Yoda enough that the fight was not easy for Yoda, even if Yoda wins 10/10. Same for Yoda is outclass by Sids and match him. So...

The movie, junior novel has Yoda disarming Sidious in sabers. The movie, has Yoda stalemating Sidious's lightning storm. They state that Yoda "could not beat Sidious", an absolutely far cry from being outclassed. Yoda is "virtually" equal to Sidious, means he is as close to Sidious as can possibly get, except Sidious himself. Why do you call upon Shootingnova? No brother, even he can't save your sorry excuse of an argument. Not going to reply to the second part of this sentence.

Yeah and Dooku is absolutely crushed by Sids, Yoda stalemates Sids, so.....

More like a single tier below ROTS Sidious and Yoda, but lets ignore context, you seem good at that.

No, at the very least 2 tiers. Yeah, the only "context" you have going for you is that Yoda didn't crush Dooku. Well, multiple legends and canon sources have trashed this "context" the context of which you ignore, and which is mentioned everytime, and not to mention, every other context has Yoda crushing Dooku, so my point holds.

You say match as in equals. I do not. I say match as in Dooku made Yoda work for it. This whole argument is about Dooku getting speed blitz, and your looking foolish so far bringing up shit that has nothing to do with that point.

When Yoda held back massively. Dooku was hugely amped on Vjun, and Yoda hindered, and Yoda still gave him a sound thrashing, after holding back massively, so no, morals off, Yoda isn't going to hold back. He stomps, and Dooku can't touch him.

PIS/CIS/WIS pick one. Likely WIS as Dooku stomps Obi Wan all the time, and beats Obi Wan and Anakin all the time till ROTS. So your one contradicting example is pretty sad on your part as proof of my "fanboyness".

You lowball Kenobi as well, not a surprise. No, there was no PIS, just Dooku failing solidly. The return of Maul is PIS then. Contest that. Yeah, let's forget the time in ROTS, where Kenobi was overwhelming Dooku with speed, and Dooku had to resort to a quick cheapshot to win, which Obi Wan didn't have time to counter. Going by your logic, it does not matter at all whether a Jedi force pushes each other, so yes Kenobi won that duel, by your standards. No, the biggest PIS was Yoda not crushing Dooku, and even that was explained on Vjun solidly, so there is your argument down( again, big surprise).

Considering AoTC, why has your definition of "stomped" changed? You are seriously not trying to insinuate that Yoda can't even do to Dooku what he did to AoTC Obi Wan.

Look, I am getting tired of tearing you and Kbro up. Both of you are trying to argue me and label me as a fanboy for arguing Dooku is equals to Yoda, like Dooku can beat Yoda \. I never once said this. only that Dooku much like Mace Windu, Anakin, or people of that tier would not get speed blitz by Yoda. So quit being a fanboy and making something out of nothing mate.

Just look at your arguments for once, out of the adrenaline rush, and see who is tearing apart whom. Every other context under the sun and the stars, has Yoda stomping Dooku, when going all out. Your "context" has been debunked several times, by people other than me, and backed by solid sources. Yeah, Maul would get speedblitzed by an all out Yoda, so would Kenobi, and Dooku is in their league, not in the league of Windu or Anakin( who still get dropped by Yoda in less than 5 or 6 seconds), it is not outside of his capabilities at all. Manga may not involve speedblitz, SW EU does, so stop denying that the sun rises from the east here.

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#37 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

'annihilating arguments' lmfaoooo, I can't take any thread seriously now I just seem to read the most hilarious parts first.

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#38 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight:

good points but this isn't true at all:
Dooku is in their league, not in the league of Windu or Anakin

Mace vs dooku is incredibly close and i only say mace due to physicals, not that dooku can't handle physical opponents

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#39 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

Dayum... @kbroskywalker is slaughtering on this thread.

Yeah Yoda stomps... and it isn't close... at all.

Hey, sometimes even jedi gotta go a little darkside, its a skywalker thing:

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#40 Posted by Emperordmb (1987 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz Listen bro, I am also getting tired of annihilating your arguments, so this is going to be my last reply, in case you post similar ones.

So nothing said is proof uit exist in canon? This is not only some bullshit logic, but tupical SW fan logic. Glad I can debate sense in comic vs comic or even Mange vs mange threads where this logic logic is frown on :/

What utter nonsense. It exists in Legends and GL canon, it was once canon, and is legitimately taken here. It is outright confirmed( by yourself), that so long as it doesn't contradict, in the ROTS novel, it is canon. Star Wars isn't Manga, do you understand?

Did Sidious kill two ther Jedi in one attack whether mace was there or not? Yes. Did he do the same to Kit? Nope. By the same argument Kit should been easier to kill now that two other Jedi were killed off the bat. More a showing of skill than speed blitz. Dooku is on the same level of Anakin, and mace, I still dont see why any of those two are getting speed blitz by Sidious or Yoda, so why is Dooku being blitz? He is not. Many sources and proof show otherwise. Sorry.

Sidious had the element of surprise, and Mace was on the defensive initially. It could not have been clearer in the video. You would know if you actually remembered something, instead of just wanking. No sources show anything other than Sidious can blitz Anakin. Yoda has blitzed 3 council members all better ones than what Palpatine blitzed, and each of them would give normal Mace, Dooku a good fight, so your logic is again utterly crushed.

Its funny, multiple sources state Yoda is not equal to Sidious. At all. They state Yoda is outclass by Sids. @shootingnova and @jedixman can confirm this as well. Also what does worshiping someone like a god means they are outclass in power and speed to the point they get speed blitz?

Dooku match Yoda enough that the fight was not easy for Yoda, even if Yoda wins 10/10. Same for Yoda is outclass by Sids and match him. So...

The movie, junior novel has Yoda disarming Sidious in sabers. The movie, has Yoda stalemating Sidious's lightning storm. They state that Yoda "could not beat Sidious", an absolutely far cry from being outclassed. Yoda is "virtually" equal to Sidious, means he is as close to Sidious as can possibly get, except Sidious himself. Why do you call upon Shootingnova? No brother, even he can't save your sorry excuse of an argument. Not going to reply to the second part of this sentence.

Yeah and Dooku is absolutely crushed by Sids, Yoda stalemates Sids, so.....

More like a single tier below ROTS Sidious and Yoda, but lets ignore context, you seem good at that.

No, at the very least 2 tiers. Yeah, the only "context" you have going for you is that Yoda didn't crush Dooku. Well, multiple legends and canon sources have trashed this "context" the context of which you ignore, and which is mentioned everytime, and not to mention, every other context has Yoda crushing Dooku, so my point holds.

You say match as in equals. I do not. I say match as in Dooku made Yoda work for it. This whole argument is about Dooku getting speed blitz, and your looking foolish so far bringing up shit that has nothing to do with that point.

When Yoda held back massively. Dooku was hugely amped on Vjun, and Yoda hindered, and Yoda still gave him a sound thrashing, after holding back massively, so no, morals off, Yoda isn't going to hold back. He stomps, and Dooku can't touch him.

PIS/CIS/WIS pick one. Likely WIS as Dooku stomps Obi Wan all the time, and beats Obi Wan and Anakin all the time till ROTS. So your one contradicting example is pretty sad on your part as proof of my "fanboyness".

You lowball Kenobi as well, not a surprise. No, there was no PIS, just Dooku failing solidly. The return of Maul is PIS then. Contest that. Yeah, let's forget the time in ROTS, where Kenobi was overwhelming Dooku with speed, and Dooku had to resort to a quick cheapshot to win, which Obi Wan didn't have time to counter. Going by your logic, it does not matter at all whether a Jedi force pushes each other, so yes Kenobi won that duel, by your standards. No, the biggest PIS was Yoda not crushing Dooku, and even that was explained on Vjun solidly, so there is your argument down( again, big surprise).

Considering AoTC, why has your definition of "stomped" changed? You are seriously not trying to insinuate that Yoda can't even do to Dooku what he did to AoTC Obi Wan.

Look, I am getting tired of tearing you and Kbro up. Both of you are trying to argue me and label me as a fanboy for arguing Dooku is equals to Yoda, like Dooku can beat Yoda \. I never once said this. only that Dooku much like Mace Windu, Anakin, or people of that tier would not get speed blitz by Yoda. So quit being a fanboy and making something out of nothing mate.

Just look at your arguments for once, out of the adrenaline rush, and see who is tearing apart whom. Every other context under the sun and the stars, has Yoda stomping Dooku, when going all out. Your "context" has been debunked several times, by people other than me, and backed by solid sources. Yeah, Maul would get speedblitzed by an all out Yoda, so would Kenobi, and Dooku is in their league, not in the league of Windu or Anakin( who still get dropped by Yoda in less than 5 or 6 seconds), it is not outside of his capabilities at all. Manga may not involve speedblitz, SW EU does, so stop denying that the sun rises from the east here.

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#41 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight: well I can see why you may think the opposite way, but by feats and statements, IMO nothing solidly suggest Dooku will get speed blitz anymore than Anakin or Mace Windu would.

Though Yoda wins 10/10 as long he works for it.

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#42 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight:

I just want to pipe in and say Manga does have speed blitzes. In fact it's far more common in manga than in Star Wars by a lot.

:>

It has nothing to do with your argument, just mentioning that it wouldn't matter if Star Wars was a manga or not (I wish there was one, lel, even non-canon. it'd be fun) speedblitz is definitely a thing.

So I dunno who suggested that one can't argue that a speedblitz would happen in a manga thread.

In fact, due to the great disparity between speeds of characters from different mangas there are a lot of threads that end in speedblitzes.

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#43 Edited by DesolatorStorm (384 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm with SirfizzWizz on this one. Yoda takes this fight handily, but it's not an instantaneous speed blitz, but a fight that requires Yoda to put in effort, to a great effect. As for all the arguments about Yoda having descriptions about being faster than high-level jedi can see, this is lacking in the context of the series as a whole. Jedi and Sith fight beyond their physical perception through guidance from the force. Anakin, when fighting Dooku, could fill his entire line of sight with "an electronic haze", yet, while loosing, Dooku wasn't getting speed blitzed. Heck, even Kenobi can do as much. " 'Very well,then' the jedi said, and shot straight upward over Dooku's head so fast it seemed he'd vanished." So, unless you guys want to be consistent with this argument and suggest that Kenobi can speed-blitz Dooku, I suggest you concede that using speed beyond the physical perceptions of the jedi and sith does not have an effect on combat.

For the points made to say that Yoda's force abliities are greater to justify the blitz argument, you do realize that force users need to actually activate a force wall, and that it's not a 24/7 defense right? Sidious doing this to Dooku is just as easily the result of carelessness as much as Sidious's power, which could be why Yoda managed to force push Sidious. And to all those that have it in their minds that Yoda is this untouchable jedi master in the force, need I bring up that Shatterpoint has Mace compare Kar Vaster to both Anakin and Yoda, and later considers Anakin's power in the force to be arguably the greatest among the jedi, which wasn't a statement of potential since he stated that he was getting stronger. Oh, and not to mention that the "Jedi Path" sourcebook depicts a jedi in the past having a telekinetic feat that the Yoda we see in the series claims that he cannot replicate.

I see no reason to take a statement from a junior novel of all things seriously when no other source backs it up, particularly the movie novelization. Yoda was beating Dooku quite clearly, but holding back?????

Ultimately, to answer the thread. Through the novelization of Attack of the Clones's depiction of Dooku and Yoda's battle, Dooku doesn't stack well at all. He is someone who will always loose, though he's capable enough to hold on long enough to prevent himself from being wiped out immediately.

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#44 Edited by john_doe_0897 (3386 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda smashes

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#45 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofthelight:

I just want to pipe in and say Manga does have speed blitzes. In fact it's far more common in manga than in Star Wars by a lot.

:>

It has nothing to do with your argument, just mentioning that it wouldn't matter if Star Wars was a manga or not (I wish there was one, lel, even non-canon. it'd be fun) speedblitz is definitely a thing.

So I dunno who suggested that one can't argue that a speedblitz would happen in a manga thread.

In fact, due to the great disparity between speeds of characters from different mangas there are a lot of threads that end in speedblitzes.

Buddy, don't ruin star wars with that japanese crap

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#47 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@desolatorstorm:

idious doing this to Dooku is just as easily the result of carelessness as much as Sidious's power, which could be why Yoda managed to force push Sidious

Dude yoda politely waited for sidious to stop laughing and then even telegraphed he was about to tk him with a one liner, there is absolutely no reason for sidious not to have had his force wall up.

It had nothing to do with carelessness, sidious foce hoked himfrom across the galaxy, dooku wan't being careless.

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#48 Posted by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker:

Well that was a little rude.

They mentioned manga first and I'm just correcting some facts.

I dunno why you felt the need to attack my personal interests...

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#49 Posted by kbroskywalker (13411 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339:

you suggested star wars gets a manga, that is blashphemy

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#50 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker:

I'm a fan of Star Wars and Manga and I like to share my opinions and interests. That is all.

Also, I don't know which holy Jedi text you read that condemned Japanese styled comics.

Especially when it's possible that the themes notable in the order as well as the words they use are more likely to be derived from eastern themes than western.

Also I'm suprised how dismissive you are of adding a new medium to Star Wars since most people shunned TCW in the beginning as a piece of trash and look at it now.

I've seen you merit it as being on of the best shows ever.

TL;DR haters gonna hate

---

But anyways, bleh...

Maybe I'll make a fan-manga just to spite!

I'm not letting those years at art college go to waste!

>:D