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#1 Edited by BilboBaggins (644 posts) - - Show Bio
Wandering Shinobi Sasuke
Wandering Shinobi Sasuke
Hokage Naruto
Hokage Naruto
















  • Fused Momoshiki - Toneri

    No Caption Provided



    ROUND 1 RULES:

    - In characters

    - Canon Feats

    - No prep. or knowledge

    - Time-Stop restricted

    - Genjutsu Restricted

    - Naruto and Sasuke have 30 minutes to defeat the Otsutsuki. After that Toneri will drop the moon against the earth

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    ROUND 2 RULES:

    - Bloodlusted

    - Basic knowledge

    - Time-Stop Allowed

    - Genjutsu Allowed

    - Naruto and Sasuke have 10 minutes to defeat the Otsutsuki. After that Toneri will drop the moon against the earth

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#2 Posted by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

Pointing out, time stop was never used in battles and we don't know the context and the conditions to activate it.

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#3 Posted by BilboBaggins (644 posts) - - Show Bio

Pointing out, time stop was never used in battles and we don't know the context and the conditions to activate it.

I'll let the time-stop feat in any case, since Momoshiki showed it and Sasuke, Boruto stated it.

Also the Time-Stop feat is more legit than, for example, saying that a character has a feat even if he/she never showed to be able to do it or he/she never said to be able to do it (OP Admirals with every type of Haki for example).

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#4 Edited by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins:

It's a feat, just not a combat feat. We have no idea how he triggers it, if there is a limit, if he can use it without prep ecc. ecc.

Also on OP example, it was stated multiple times as a fundamental thing that almost everyone relevant can use.

Btw if you want to use it in this battle, it makes it pointless since no one can counter it.

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#5 Posted by BilboBaggins (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins:

It's a feat, just not a combat feat. We have no idea how he triggers it, if there is a limit, if he can use it without prep ecc. ecc.

Also on OP example, it was stated multiple times as a fundamental thing that almost everyone relevant can use.

Btw if you want to use it in this battle, it makes it pointless since no one can counter it.

Sasuke has a counter against it due to his Rinnegan. For example he can cast a Genjutsu against Momoshiki and let him nullify the Time-Stop. I removed the Genjutsu and Time-Stop restrictions to make it fair.

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#6 Posted by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins:

Yeah no. Unless Momo stand right in front of him and stare into his eye it won't happen. He can crush them or wait until the time limits end.

It's not something we can use in battles until we know how he uses it.

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#7 Posted by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins:

Not to mention, how do we know genjutsu will effect him and that he can't just free from it? There is Toneri too. Sasuke didn't use it when fighting him, that's should be self explanatory.

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#8 Posted by BilboBaggins (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini:

Sasuke was able to put his opponents under a "mind control", against a White Zetsu and a Kumogakure Shinobi for example.

For the "Sasuke didn't use it when fighting him, that's should be self explanatory"
that was maybe (and this is a Big Maybe) due to:

1- Simple Plot or PIS

2 - Less probable. Momoshiki can absorb even Genjutsu since Sasuke blocked Naruto to use Kage Bunshin right off the bat (clones) against Momo because his insta-absorbition ability, as Sasuke stated.

However if Time-Stop means mismatch for other users i'll remove it.

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#9 Posted by oblivion360 (824 posts) - - Show Bio

Ignoring time stop

Team 1 wins. Toneri gets one shotted again. Then the duo tag teams momo

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#10 Edited by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins:

Using it against fodder or weaker people isn't the right example to do.

Again there is Toneri too, he isn't gonna stand there and watch, like Momo isn't gonna stare into his eye.

Genjutsu doesn't mean you are god, people can resist and free from them and Sasuke isn't Itachi. Not to mention, we don't even know if he can use them under these circumstances. To many assumptions.

So for the match ignoring time stop, team 1 should win.

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#11 Posted by Dust_Hawk (892 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 i can give this to both. Without knowledge and preparation Momoshiki will just absorb every jutsu and drop 'em back against the duo. However Naruto and Sasuke can play it smart and create a nice strategy to counter the instant absorbition, excluding sealing jutsu. Momoshiki absorbs and seals the duo.

R2 goes to Team 2 pretty easily. Bloodlusted Naruto will drop some Bijuu Rasenshuriken or thousands clones, while Sasuke could probably spam Kagutsuchi everywhere. Momo absorbs. Drops 'em back 10x stronger than before. KO the duo or kills the duo...
Toneri make the moon fall.

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#12 Posted by BilboBaggins (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins:

Using it against fodder or weaker people isn't the right example to do.

Again there is Toneri too, he isn't gonna stand there and watch, like Momo isn't gonna stare into his eye.

Genjutsu doesn't mean you are god, people can resist and free from them and Sasuke isn't Itachi. Not to mention, we don't even know if he can use them under these circumstances. To many assumptions.

So for the match ignoring time stop, team 1 should win.

Okay. I don't want to take a side in my own thread so i'll let it be.

Both rounds?

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#13 Edited by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins:

Without it yeah, R1 is the most dangerous but since they aren't retarded once he absorbs their techniques once they won't use them again.

R2 with knowledge and bloodlusted is a two or three shot match at best.

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#14 Posted by oblivion360 (824 posts) - - Show Bio

@dust_hawk: r1 the moment momo absorbs their attack once it's not happening again. Toneri still gets knocked out quick and then they tag team momo

R2 they have knowledge, bloodlusted doesn't mean stupid. They stomp

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#15 Posted by KingZod (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

Ignoring Time Stop.

Team 1 both rounds

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#16 Posted by god_vulcan (4841 posts) - - Show Bio

@oblivion360: Toneri's not gonna get oneshotted. He kept pace with Naruto fine thnd ey were evenly matched until the Chakra cloak in fist.

Tag team momo? That already happened and Naruto and Sasuke were struggling... (at least in the movie)

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#17 Posted by god_vulcan (4841 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 loses round 1 but edges them out round 2

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#18 Edited by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan:

Well the moment that a depowered version of Naruto touched him, he losed.

On Momo, Naruto was damaged and tired, while Sasuke was tired and the moment they got seriously, used their avatars, they basically one shotted him.

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#19 Posted by oblivion360 (824 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: this is a stronger version of naruto that will be using a stronger cloak, and he knows what toneri is capable of, naruto isn't spending to much time beating him, at least not so long that sauce would lose to momo

Yeah in the movie sasuke got hit with an attack and injured badly but naruto's a white mage now and healed him up quick, then proceeded to beat momo by combining with sauce. I don't think they had trouble in the manga. After momo stomped the kages naruto and sauce beat him down.

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#20 Posted by god_vulcan (4841 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini: On on mobile so roll with it

"Well the moment that a depowered version of Naruto touched him, he losed.

Not true. He was going blow for blow with KCM Naruto and only got oneshotted by him with the Chakra cloak in his fist, a move that's obviously his trump card. Toneri's TSB shield was durable enough to tank a rasengan barrage explosion, and Toneri shrugged off the collision of Silver rebirth wheel (the tornado attack that blew threw the crust of the moon) and Naruto's planetary rasengan. So the notion that he has no durability is false.

"On Momo, Naruto was damaged and tired, while Sasuke was tired and the moment they got seriously, used their avatars, they basically one shotted him."

This is half true. Naruto and Sasuke were both low on chakra but Momo absorbed jutsu and recuperate shortly after, and if it wasn't for Boruto they would've gotten their shit rocked

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#21 Posted by god_vulcan (4841 posts) - - Show Bio

@oblivion360: Same as above.

"this is a stronger version of naruto that will be using a stronger cloak, and he knows what toneri is capable of, naruto isn't spending to much time beating him, at least not so long that sauce would lose to momo"

Either Naruto or Sasuke could lose to fused Momoshiki imo

"Yeah in the movie sasuke got hit with an attack and injured badly but naruto's a white mage now and healed him up quick, then proceeded to beat momo by combining with sauce. I don't think they had trouble in the manga. After momo stomped the kages naruto and sauce beat him down."

I changed my mind. I can see team 1 winning both rounds but it won't be easy. I'll still defend my arguments because Toneri isn't that weak and fused Momo is a handful

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#22 Posted by GXrevs06 (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto and Sauske already beat these guys. A weaker and younger Naruto soloed Toneri. Team gets stomped

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#23 Posted by oblivion360 (824 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: yeah momo would beat any of the two 1v1, but he would have to work for it

Understandable

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#24 Posted by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan:

I wouldn't call it a trump card, he simply concentrated all his chakra, in a weaker version, into his fist. Then he literally one shot him.

I wasn't saying that his durability his nonexistent or really low, just that Naruto already defeated him easily in a weaker form.

I agree, but it was obvious PIS to give a role to Boruto. Without the retarded scientist thet would've won fairly easily even while weakened.

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#25 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Team 2 with mid or high

Round 2: Team 1 with mid or high

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#26 Edited by SuperDragonfly9 (727 posts) - - Show Bio

I commend you for making a good battle lately I haven't seen any good battles on here other than mismatches.

But Either Naruto or Sasuke could defeat Momoshiki by themselves with difficulty of course, especially if they do it before Momo summons his lava monster. Maybe it will be different in the Boruto show but in the Boruto movie Sasuke was tired from teleporting so many people from earth dimension to Momo dimension, even though he has higher chakra reserve than Obito, such a distance still tires him out. So we can already say Sasuke wasn't at full Power during fight against Momo, he didn't even use Perfect Susanoo. So at full Power I think Sasuke could take on Momoshiki, especially since Momo was surprised a few times by Sasuke special teleporting ability.

Now Naruto was performing better than Sasuke and his chakra was being zapped from him by Momo before the fight even begin. So we can also say Naruto wasn't Full Power either. But seeing as most of the chakra in the father son rasengan that killed Momo was from Naruto I wanna say Naruto should be able to beat Momo mid difficulty. They just have to watch our for Momo absorbing abilities, it's no different than fighting six paths of pain.

And literally they should be able stomp Toneri if Naruto beat toneri when he was 19 toneri should be a stomp for them as adults

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#27 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini: honestly even Toneri in a weaker form, before Tenseigan mode, oneshoted Naruto with his own 100% chakra, leaving Naruto unconscious for some time. And that explosion was enough strong to erase a great portion of the moon too

Nothing can stop Toneri to do that again. And Toneri was capable to make the moon fall, with meteors, even without the Tenseigan. Let's not underrate him

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#28 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio

and if Momoshiki change dimension? Sasuke has to follow him, losing a portion of his chakra

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#29 Posted by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@razielghoul:

I'm not underestimating him, I'm stating facts. Naruto one shotted him the moment he got serious, even in a weaker form. He isn't a real enemy for him without story reasons.

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#30 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini: just like Toneri casually oneshotted him with the green orb or Kinbo Tensei Baku, sucking his full chakra away and make it explode, in a weaker form

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#31 Posted by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@razielghoul:

Unfortunately it wasn't a fight, Naruto was completely distracted and was in BASE.

Again the moment Naruto actually tried GG.

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#32 Edited by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@razielghoul:

Not to mention it was a peculiar technique, that Naruto had no knowledge of and stupidly tried to over power (main fault its on the "emotional" situation) you can't compare being one shotted with a punch in your strongest form with getting taken by surprise with an absurd technique in your weakest form...

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#33 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini: not completely distracted. He tried to counter the KTB with a golden Rasengan and failed.

Nothing suggest that he will not try to do the same move in these fights. Especially if Toneri spams his Gudoudama against him while he drops a KTB. Also Round 1 is without preparation, knowledge and in characters. Team 2 is advantaged here

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#34 Edited by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@razielghoul:

He has precog here.... a thing he didn't had in base.

Nothing Toneri has can actually hurt Naruto, even when weaker.

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#35 Posted by oblivion360 (824 posts) - - Show Bio

@razielghoul: but hokage naruto would already know what toneri is capable of since he fought him already. No knowledge is advantage that only momo holds

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#36 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini: but Hokage Naruto has to activate the SM

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#37 Posted by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@razielghoul:

And? It's not like Toneri is faster than it's activation.

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#38 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio

@oblivion360: i think "no prep. or knowledge" is for both team

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#39 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by RazielGhoul (396 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini: fair enough. But the rules and the situation are against the SM at the very beginning of the battle, in Round 1. While Toneri used the KTB casually once he saw Naruto as an "enemy" or a threat.....

I'm not saying Toneri can easily defeat Naruto and Sasuke but his victory with a KTB against at least one of them is a possibility

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#41 Posted by Kamishini (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@razielghoul:

I agree, R1 is the most dangerous and T2 has a clear advantage under these conditions. But without PIS holding him back it would be the most obvious thing to do. Not to mention, Naruto isn't thinking with his d#ck here so probably won't try to power through it or will send a clone.

But yeah, it's definitely a possibility.

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#42 Posted by Helloman (7201 posts) - - Show Bio

Team one wins both rounds.

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#43 Posted by BilboBaggins (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins: both team have no preparation and knowledge?

@razielghoul: but hokage naruto would already know what toneri is capable of since he fought him already. No knowledge is advantage that only momo holds

Both Naruto and Sasuke have zero knowledge about Momo and Toneri, same for the Otsutsuki duo.

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#44 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (1229 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by oblivion360 (824 posts) - - Show Bio

@bilbobaggins: ok that makes r1 a little harder. Team 1 still wins both rounds