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#401 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@notcensored: The point was that Shin is garbage, and he is. Dude weak as hell to really be doing anything to Naruto or Sasuke. This same guy who has 30 MS could barely hold his own against a base form Sakura.

That whole encounter was full of antifeats. Naruto shouldn't have ever gotten hit. Sasuke shouldn't have either, and even if he did he wouldn't be put down by like 6 kunai. Shit is just crazy, they wrote the fight to make it seem like anybody can stab Naruto with a kitchen knife.

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#402 Posted by FaradaySloth (10090 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth: Idk anything about Gerard. So I can't say. I'm just here correcting some people on their ignorant Naruto statements.

Basically any damage to Hoffnung would be redirected back at the opponent, a nick = a severe slash on the opponent. Destroying it = you would also get destroyed.

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#403 Posted by Godren (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

worst case scenario would be Gerard getting annoyed and decides to absorb Naruto's soul with Sklaveri.

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#404 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth:

But UltimateSage makes a really good point against that:

"Naruto smacks Gerard but can't kill him while Gerard can't hurt naruto and by NLF we don't know how much stronger Gerard can get again it's a stalemate. Naruto makes a clone to destroy Hoffnug, making the clone take back the damage."

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#405 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Is that like soul snatching with the rinnegan?

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#406 Posted by FaradaySloth (10090 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth:

But UltimateSage makes a really good point against that:

"Naruto smacks Gerard but can't kill him while Gerard can't hurt naruto and by NLF we don't know how much stronger Gerard can get again it's a stalemate. Naruto makes a clone to destroy Hoffnug, making the clone take back the damage."

A single clone can't destroy Hoffnung considering only a nick was received by a man who was casual multi-mountain slashes at that time, and nearly bisected the man when he was island level at that point.

Hoffnung should be a casual island level. A clone with crap piercing durability ain't doing shit.

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#407 Edited by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth:

Rasenshuriken.

Sounds like a well placed Rasenshuriken, maybe with added lava style or a mini TBB rasenshuriken would get the job done considering we saw one of them clear several meteors, meteors that dwarf entire mountain ranges. It even cut the Divine tree in half effortlessly

It's the best of both worlds. It rips the victim to shreds while having hella DC.

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#408 Posted by Godren (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Is that like soul snatching with the rinnegan?

No, Naruto just gets completely absorbed (All Sternritter can do this).

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#409 Edited by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Looks like it could one shot Naruto if what you're showing me is all there is to it. Question is if Gerard can actually tag Naruto with the move, or if Naruto can just dodge it constantly.

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#410 Edited by Godren (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Looks like it could one shot Naruto. Question is if Gerard can actually tag Naruto with the move, or if Naruto can just dodge it constantly.

It's an AOE that strips away everything and absorbs it, so if he does decide to use it any time he's gonna get killed ( Gerard is vastly stronger and larger then the person using it here).

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#411 Posted by InvadedTBD (1599 posts) - - Show Bio
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#412 Edited by Godren (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

Also unless Naruto can destroy Gerard's soul he isn't going to kill him, and I know for sure Naruto has no sort of soul destruction.

Also if he can't destroy Gerard's Halo then he isn't going to stop the Miracle, this Halo is intangible btw and Naruto can't harm or even hit intangibles.

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#413 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Lmao so what is that, a giant bird absorbing everything?

Idk. Assuming that everything that's "converging toward him" needs to touch him to be disintegrated(unless the disintegration starts as they're converging toward him), I can still see Naruto escaping this by just flying out of range.

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#414 Posted by Godren (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Lmao so what is that, a giant bird absorbing everything?

Idk. Assuming that everything that's "converging toward him" needs to touch him to be disintegrated(unless the disintegration starts as they're converging toward him), I can still see Naruto escaping this by just flying out of range.

Before and After Absorbing lol

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#415 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanplusjay: ur really milking what that chidori was worth. Think of the condition they were in

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#416 Edited by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: They were in good enough condition to keep on fighting a full day straight with Kurama avatars, Susano'o and even more level ups. Their condition was just fine up until the end of the fight when they could barely stand. I'm not milking anything, I'm just telling you like it is, you're just doing your best to downplay.

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#417 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: But can Naruto just fly out of range?

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#418 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanplusjay: No u just made my point, they had just been through a day of fighting(losing) and expending chakra. They were not ‘just fine’, they were ‘just alive’. I’m not saying they were trashed, but they really weren’t in fighting order by then.

Zanpakutou can demolish buildings in a stoke, without even being released. When I said Six Path weapons I meant things like Toneri, Madara, or Obito’s swords or the TSOs

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#419 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz:

No, I did the opposite of prove your point.

In their fight they had went an entire day of fighting. That scan I posted of Sasuke tagging Naruto with that chidori happened super early in the fight. Way before they started spamming jutsu and using Susano'o and Kurama avatar form. They were just fine. It wasn't until after their Indra Arrow and Three headed Kurama double rasenshuriken clash were they "just alive". At that point they both could barely maintain a basic rasengan and chidori. Sasuke could no longer use his rinnegan abilities. Naruto couldn't manifest a rasengan for 5 seconds. This was all at the end of their fight.

At the beginning of their fight they were just fine. They were certainly in fighting order. You can't assume Sasuke's chidori wasn't at its best and assume he was somehow weakened just because they just got done fighting Kaguya. Clearly they were in good enough condition to continue fight even after that.

It doesn't matter what you meant, Sasuke falls in that category whether you like it or not. He has six paths power, therefore any jutsu he has is a six paths amped jutsu and he falls into those category of people you just mentioned.

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#420 Posted by FaradaySloth (10090 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanplusjay: Gerard swats it away via having superior reiatsu and durability.

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#421 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanplusjay: so what ur saying is tht when Sasuke hit Naruto with the Chidori, he had plenty of chakra to fend it off with?

And, slow down. Just because Sasuke has access to Six Path power doesn’t mean he’s Captain Six Paths! Every jutsu he has is Six Paths amped? No, not at all. The Six Paths may allow him to access deeper chakra reserves and abilities, but it didn’t fuse with all his chakra natures. He doesn’t have a Six Paths chidori anymore than he has a Six Paths fireball

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#422 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz:

"so what ur saying is tht when Sasuke hit Naruto with the Chidori, he had plenty of chakra to fend it off with?"

What are you talking about? Are you asking me if Naruto had plenty of chakra to fend that chidori off? Yes, he did. More than enough.

"Every jutsu he has is Six Paths amped? No, not at all."

But it is. You're gonna tell me EMS Sasuke and rinnesharingan Sasuke both have the same potency in their jutsu? EMS Sasuke chidori = Rinnesharingan Sasuke chidori?

"He doesn’t have a Six Paths chidori anymore than he has a Six Paths fireball"

But he does. His six paths power amped him, and as a result it amps his jutsu. So technically any jutsu he uses is a six paths amp.

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#423 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz:

Sasuke does have a six path chidori,the black chidori I think

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#424 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: not sure about tht, I think tht was for his curse mark. Can’t remember

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#425 Edited by Chakko (47 posts) - - Show Bio

And Naruto seals him with Shukaku's Cursed Seal and Gyuki's Ink.

Gerard cannot even tag him thanks to precogs and massive speed difference.

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#426 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz:

Nope actually this was against six paths madara, my manga memory is fuzzy,so it might me an anime only feat but he definitely has a black chidori

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#427 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanplusjay: so what Naruto did just then is the very same thing as what Bleach characters do, like all the time. They focus more power in their attacks so it has a much greater piercing/cutting capability than Sasuke’s chidori

I’m not saying being granted access to Six Path abilities didn’t increase his power. It grants him access to a greater amount of chakra to perform Jutsu with, but it doesn’t infuse all of his Jutsu with Yin/Yang chakra

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#428 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: ur right, he does have a Six Paths Chidori, but it’s not what he smack Naruto with. Thanks for pointing tht out to me tho

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#429 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko:

Those shit seals aren't doing shit.. Sealing is not naruto forte,give up on it

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#430 Posted by InvadedTBD (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^^^Very True.

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#431 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz:

"so what Naruto did just then is the very same thing as what Bleach characters do, like all the time. They focus more power in their attacks so it has a much greater piercing/cutting capability than Sasuke’s chidori"

Did just when? What moment are you referring to?

"I’m not saying being granted access to Six Path abilities didn’t increase his power. It grants him access to a greater amount of chakra to perform Jutsu with, but it doesn’t infuse all of his Jutsu with Yin/Yang chakra"

But that doesn't matter, it still couldn't Pierce Naruto, and it wouldn't have pierced Naruto unless he had senjutsu power added to it(I'm not sure if sasuke's six paths power up makes him Cap's let of hurting SPSM users, but I don't think so, since that chidori didn't pierced him). If Gerard's abilities rely heavily on his reiatsu, they shouldn't work on SPSM Naruto at all, since SPSM nullifies all ninjutsu (and in this fight reiatsu = chakra).

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#432 Edited by UltimateSage (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

Still this for me. Until further notice:

"Naruto smacks Gerard but can't kill him while Gerard can't hurt naruto and by NLF we don't know how much stronger Gerard can get again it's a stalemate. Naruto makes a clone to destroy Hoffnug, making the clone take back the damage."

And from what Mr. Sloth said Hoffnug is island level, so a clone from adult sosp naruto would one shot it considering he is>>>>>>>>>>BM war arc naruto who was island level himself at that time.

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#433 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanplusjay: when Sasuke hit him with the Chidori and it didn’t pierce him. Naruto mitigated the damage with chakra, because he clearly didn’t negate it in the sense of voiding the jutsu. He was still hit, fine overall, but still damaged. Thts basically how reiatsu is used in Bleach, to increase defenses and offisive power. But there’s hardly anything to my knowledge in either show tht turns off passive abilities

I don’t believe Sasuke has access to Yang nature the way Naruto does, either....idk tho. Gerard’s ability doesn’t rely heavily on reiatsu. Break Hoffnung, take damage; kill him, he gets up stronger; thts the rules regardless of his own reiatsu. He steals it from his environment the way Naruto does Senjutsu, he’ll even steal it from Naruto...

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#434 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: Problem: it’s not the thing tht destroyed Hoffmann tht takes damage, but the person responsible for wielding said thing. The damage is going directly to Naruto’s main body. Hope he realizes tht before testing a theory with fatal errors

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#435 Posted by UltimateSage (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: Ok, say naruto makes a ultra big ball rasengan thst is multi mountain level and it makes a crack on Hoffnug like kenpachi did, naruto's dumbass would probably ignore the sudden wound he got, but kurama wouldn't. He'll tell naruto to make a clone to take that sword out with a bijuudama or something.

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#436 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: it reflects the damage in a severely disproportionate manner so Naruto is definitely going to notice it, and be much more sensibly wary of it than ur making it out to be. It doesn’t matter it he uses a clone, or a Rasenshuriken, or a TBB, or the TSBs, the damage is coming straight home

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#437 Posted by UltimateSage (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: If a clone is the one that destroys Hoffnug then it's the one taking damage, no?

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#438 Posted by Undre (3824 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko: again naruto doesnt have any speed feats Gerard is tagging him all day like he did Kenpachi

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#439 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: No, the damage will go to Naruto’s real body, the actual source of the attack. Naruto would have a hard time adjusting to Gerard’s passive skills and savage nature. Naruto is going to have to adjust to his opponent whereas Gerard will proceed as usual. Ppl seem to forget tht Bleach characters have a higher fight speed avg, and Gerard is going to be pressuring from the start. Not saying Gerard is faster than Naruto, but ppl don’t fight like tht in Naruto’s world and tht lack of experience combined with Gerard’s abilities could make this a shorter fight than we think. Naruto isn’t used to prolonged fighting while heavily wounded with actual sword wounds, not blunt force hits and chakra. It’s just how the fight is likely to go

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#440 Posted by bdelloidgrain2 (1988 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@chakko: again naruto doesnt have any speed feats Gerard is tagging him all day like he did Kenpachi

I don't know who Gerard is, but Naruto is pretty quick. He ran across a continent in the span of a short conversation. This happened at the end of Naruto.

Not arguing for Naruto or Gerard, just thought I would let you know :)

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#441 Posted by Undre (3824 posts) - - Show Bio
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#442 Posted by bdelloidgrain2 (1988 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@bdelloidgrain2: lol what chapter was that. And how long did it take him

Forgot the chapter, but it was close to the end of Naruto Shippuden, when Naruto and Sasuke were going to have their final battle. They had to run back to the Valley of the End. As for how long it took them, they were pretty fast. They had a short conversation in the time it took them.

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#443 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanplusjay: the destructive capabilities of a Rasenshuriken would be Naruto’s undoing. Not only may he destroy Hoffnung, he may also cause severe damage to Gerard, making him stronger again

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#444 Edited by Undre (3824 posts) - - Show Bio

@bdelloidgrain2: thats not a Continental distance more like country. I would say mach 600 thats enough to move from one country to another a few seconds. Anyway Gerard is around mach 20,000 with low ball he scales above Ichibe who traveled 4000km in 1 second. Hes the soul kings heart

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#445 Posted by UltimateSage (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: No, the damage will go to Naruto’s real body, the actual source of the attack.

Why would the damage go back to the real naruto if clone naruto destroyed the sword?

Naruto would have a hard time adjusting to Gerard’s passive skills and savage nature. Naruto is going to have to adjust to his opponent whereas Gerard will proceed as usual.

You're right about naruto having to adjust, but we are shown multiple times in naruto that he is a faster thinker in battle snd he could just send in clones for experience too.

Ppl seem to forget tht Bleach characters have a higher fight speed avg, and Gerard is going to be pressuring from the start. Not saying Gerard is faster than Naruto, but ppl don’t fight like tht in Naruto’s world and tht lack of experience combined with Gerard’s abilities could make this a shorter fight than we think.

Are you basing the on animation? Cuz the naruto anime studio sucks, so the animation sucks too. Though I agree with you on bleach being faster as a whole, but naruto has the faster people. And if you go reread the naruto vs pain battle, at the end they did a shit ton of stuff within 5 seconds was up. Clones send back experience to naruto soo.

Naruto isn’t used to prolonged fighting while heavily wounded with actual sword wounds, not blunt force hits and chakra. It’s just how the fight is likely to go

Naruto isn't used to prolonged fights? Since when? 4-tails naruto fought fine with Orochimaru who had a diamond cutting sword. This is SPSM naruto.

And naruto can tank attacks way above his own attack input(juubi vs bm naruto) and eight tails was able to tank his own bijuudama too.

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#446 Posted by bdelloidgrain2 (1988 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@bdelloidgrain2: thats not a Continental distance more like country. I would say mach 600 thats enough to move from one country to another a few seconds. Anyway Gerard is around mach 20,000 with low ball he scales above Ichibe who traveled 4000km in 1 second. Hes the soul kings heart

It does seem more like a country doesn't it? Anyways, just thought I would let you know about Naruto's speed feat. Again, I cannot really comment on this since I don't know anything about Gerard.

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#447 Posted by silentNightz (634 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: Because tht is just how Hoffnung's ability work. Remember these abilities function against souls, which Naruto's clones don't have(?). It returns damage to the SOURCE of the attack, the clone is just chakra, its being controlled by Naruto. I believe it would be different is it were done using the Puppet technique, but even then I'm fairly certain damage returns to host.

Gerard isn't going to be distracted by clones, he will know the difference immediately. Half of the Naruto cast can kill a Naruto clone if he's not focusing energy into it(multi shadow clone). And Gerard can see and sense the soul itself to a degree that Naruto isn't proficient in, even the highest tier Naruto characters can't do tht. The clones work better against Naruto characters because all any of them can actively see is the physical and chakra form, they dont know tht there's no soul there. And since the clones are chakra, Gerard should be able to feel the difference as well. Chakra=Reishi and Gerard's a Quincy, thts like better than the best of the best sensory ninja skill. Only experience to be gained is a new appreciation for what he's up against as he watches Gerard trample those clones in droves.

Naruto's cast, outside of god tiers and teleporters, are all pretty much slower than Bleach characters. Techniques like the 8 Gates will help with tht, but....even the best shinobi aren't keeping up with most of Bleach's combat speed. I'll give Naruto the fastest speed feat, despite it being a bit of an outlier, but he's not travel or combat speed faster than Ichigo, and Naruto is the only speed feat I'll argue.

I didn't say he's not used to prolonged fights, I said he's not used to prolonged fights WHILE HEAVILY WOUNDED. Tht was a little sneaky. Naruto fighting Orochimaru with the Kusanagi pales in comparison, the sword never cut him, likely because he was basically a bundle of dense chakra. The Kusanagi can't increase its cutting capacity with chakra, though it is one of the closest things to a Zanpakutou in Naruto.

TBB are chakra attacks, he can chakra block them to mitigate damage. They have lots of DC but no piercing damage, not at all the same. Hoffnung's ability isn't physically coming at him, it not avoidable, he can run out of range. Naruto could literally teleport to another dimension using the Rinnegan, and the damage is still going to appear

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#448 Edited by BatmanPlusJay (4222 posts) - - Show Bio

Ain't it funny how quickly this fight would be over if Naruto still had TSB? Crazy what some black balls could do to a guy.

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#449 Posted by Godren (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

Ain't it funny how quickly this fight would be over if Naruto still had TSB? Crazy what some black balls could do to a guy.

they're not as useful as you think they are in this matchup.

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#450 Posted by deactivated-5c97780a71ae4 (568 posts) - - Show Bio

Ain't it funny how quickly this fight would be over if Naruto still had TSB? Crazy what some black balls could do to a guy.

Ya know it was never stated anywhere that he lost them like he still had 3 while in Ashura Mode and he could summon them at will so its really up in the air if he still has them or not.

Like i can understand him not using them against Toneri (cause he was basically fodder to Naruto) and Momoshiki cause he would just absorb them and start spamming them like Kaguya which wouldn't be good for Naruto as he'd lose his TSB and Momoshiki would gain an ability.

All I'm saying is you could argue either way tbh.