Hit & SSB Goku vs Dark Schneider

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deactivated-5b728068f211c

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Hit and SSB Goku vs Dark Schneider

Rules:

- Everyone is bloodlusted

- This is Pre-Majin DS

- Goku is allowed Anime/Manga feats

- Duo has full knowledge

- Battle takes on a Galaxy sized planet.

Who wins and why?

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TheDeathstar

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#2  Edited By TheDeathstar

Even Majin DS loses here and this one doesn't have any chance. Hit stops the time, enables Goku to move in it like he did particularly to the Alien guy. Goku Hakai's DS which had already worked beyond Galactic level beings erasing his existence from astral, soul and physical plane.


Hit can also BFR him by putting him into a time cage, an infinite loop of time.

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Team is waaay to fast for D.S. He has hax which are excellent but are use less causes he will get blitz to hell and back before he could realize what the hell happened, they can't put him down. but darsh has no speed to even touch them. So at best its a stalemate.

EDIT: Any version of darsh is way to slow and also lacks D.C.

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HitTheAssasin

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#4  Edited By HitTheAssasin

@thedeathstar: Goku won't instantly go for Hakai in-character at all.

Edit: sorry, just saw they were bloodlusted,in cwhich case you should be correct about the outcome.

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jasonhitto

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Ssb goku rekt

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Chaos239

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Even Majin DS loses here and this one doesn't have any chance. Hit stops the time, enables Goku to move in it like he did particularly to the Alien guy. Goku Hakai's DS which had already worked beyond Galactic level beings erasing his existence from astral, soul and physical plane.

Hit can also BFR him by putting him into a time cage, an infinite loop of time.

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This Why is the Manga so much better?

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HitTheAssasin

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@god_vulcan What's your opinion on this match? You know a lot more about DS than most people on this site.

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CaoCao

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#8  Edited By CaoCao

Pre-Majin?

Team wins. I don´t know if he has Eternal Atoms before and his Dispel Bound wasn´t impressive in this time.

Above Pre-Majin, there is no Chance for Goku and Hit.

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Helloman

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#10  Edited By Helloman

DS wins.

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HigherPower

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#11  Edited By HigherPower

@hittheassasin said:

@god_vulcan What's your opinion on this match? You know a lot more about DS than most people on this site.

I'll refrain from explicitly posting my opinion on the victor, though I can recount Darsh's feats and possible advantages and allow you to judge for yourself who wins based on the information I'll provide.

Starting off with speed, I'll like to state that even pre-Majin DS is hysterically MFTL, as it was this version (his base form after Hell training) that completing his infamous feat of blitzing Konron so fast that even Seraphs couldn't perceive. And Seraphs are FTL and planet level by word of God, and thousands of times FTL by feats.

Before we move onto his other physicals, I'd like to shamelessly announce that stats aren't DS's strong suit (his hax is what makes him a threat) but [by statements], his physical prowess is still very impressive. In retrospect to the feat I mentioned earlier, he was able to blitz Konron, and when he did that he bisected him clean in half, with the utmost casualty:

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Konron was able to no-sell a stab from Uriel's Gungnir, which he stated himself to be capable of blowing apart entire stars:

The statement in question-

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The feat-

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That should cement his casual output, but if there are doubts I can reinforce that feat with more evidence should you need it. In terms of raw durability, DS tanked the explosion from Michael's GodHard blast which had the force of a supernova:

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And he still retains his plethora of lethal spells that could oneshot depending on whether or not the duo has resistance. Like destroying his opponents atoms via Jude the Priest:

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Kall confirms it as an atomic destruction attack:

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Or he can seal them with Crow Bar, a 13 layered-dimension sealing spell that destroys the soul of anyone who tries to escape:

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He can also freeze them at absolute zero before destroying them on a sub-atomic level with Testament:

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Or cast Black Sabbath, which creates a magical space containing a vacuum, then draws in and compacts matter until it triggers nuclear fusion. This then becomes a catalyst for a temperature increase, where the heat inside that pocket space skyrockets to over 1 million degrees Celsius, burning the victim to death. Then, as if that wasn't enough, the remains and ashes of the target are transported to another dimension, making it a BFR move as well:

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Here's the explanation:

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Both techniques which would need immense temperature resistance. He can also cast illusions, has an incredible healing factor, can time stop, etc.

Overall, Hit poses the biggest threat since DS doesn't have outright resistance feats to certain abilities like time cage and time skip... but I still think he can overcome them. As Lucien, DS was able to freeze time, and the feat gives him resistance to it as well:

It was thought to be impossible, but that just means it's a good feat considering Lucien is a weakened projection of Darsh

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Moreover, DS still has access to Dispel Bound even pre-Majin and these are countless magical shields and barriers that can nullify everything from basic punches to reality warping. Especially considering that Hit's abilities have been implied to be directly proportional to power lvl, I don't it's a stretch to say DS can counter them given his spell bound and resistance to time stop which is similar.

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HigherPower

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@caocao said:

Pre-Majin?

Team wins. I don´t know if he has Eternal Atoms before and his Dispel Bound wasn´t impressive in this time.

Above Pre-Majin, there is no Chance for Goku and Hit.

He doesn't. If he did he would have just regenerated his body from a head instead of having to absorb Michael's fire first.

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TheDeathstar

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#14  Edited By TheDeathstar

@god_vulcan:

Seraphs never showed FTL Combat feat, those were travel speed which were calculated to be 7000xftl. Also, Absolute Zero was already rendered useless against Base Vegeta who is far weaker than characters here.

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Judas Priest won't do anything, Goku was already resisting a Hakai in Base coming from a character much stronger than this DS here.

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Dispel Bound is easily broken in the series itself using superior speed and strength so it's not really that much of a defense mechanism and has limited hax defenses. I think you seem to agree with this one so it's good.

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HigherPower

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#15  Edited By HigherPower

@thedeathstar:

Seraphs never showed FTL Combat feat, those were travel speed which were calculated to be 7000xftl.

While this may be true, the only thing you're debunking is the Seraph's combat speed, not Dark Schneider's. Your possible insinuation that their travel speed doesn't apply to DS's feat I mentioned is false. However, it would have been correct if DS blitzed a Seraph directly, because then the Seraph he blitzed in question would be required to have a certain level of reaction speed in order for Darsh to have a certain level of combat speed for blitzing him-- but that's not the case here. Luckily for me, DS blitzed another character (Konron) faster than Seraph Raphael could see him move, meaning DS was so fast Raphael couldn't perceive him, and contrary to popular belief, perceptions indeed apply to travel speed feats. Why? Because 1) You wouldn't know when you reached your destination, and 2) You wouldn't have any idea of what's going on around you, so it'd be impossible to even navigate to your destination in the first place [at those speeds] lest you teleport.

For example, if I'm driving a car at 150mph, the good Lord knows I can't react to or dodge something that fast, but I can in fact perceive the objects and vehicles passing by me as I accelerate at those speeds. If I couldn't, then I wouldn't know when to press the brakes if I'm close to getting into an accident, or when to make turns in order to get to my location, or even where I am currently. So the Seraph's might not be 7,000x FTL in combat or reactions (so DS wouldn't be if he blitzed one of them directly) but Dark Schneider definitely is for moving faster than they could perceive him, as perceptions are necessary to have even when traveling.

Also, Absolute Zero was already rendered useless against Base Vegeta who is far weaker than characters here.

I'm sorry but scaling doesn't work that way. You can't scale hax resistance to characters just because they're stronger or on the same level. Resistance to a hax ability is unique to the character who resisted it, because that means their body has the specific natural counters to said hax. For example, though Boruto has the ability to resist time-stop, that does not mean I can scale Naruto to him giving Naruto time-stop resistance as well, because he in fact doesn't, despite Naruto being quite literally several tiers above him in power. This might not be the case in DB where everything is dependent on general strength and power lvl, but it has to be in cross-universe battles. So until Goku or Hit gain absolute zero resistance themselves, this is non-applicable as far as I'm concerned.

Judas Priest won't do anything, Goku was already resisting a Hakai in Base coming from a character much stronger than this DS here.

Hmm interesting. If that is truly Hakai then it might thwart the soul destruction properties of Crow Bar, but I don't see how that gives him resistance spells like Black Sabbath, the latter which I already explained to be a super-heated vacuum, and Goku can't survive in space or without oxygen so that would still kill him. Also you didn't post a hakai resistance feat for Hit, so he gets his soul destroyed or his body atomized by Jude the Priest.

Dispel Bound is easily broken in the series itself using superior speed and strength so it's not really that much of a defense mechanism and has limited hax defenses. I think you seem to agree with this one so it's good.

Considering that this is pre-Majin DS after all, I would have to admit that his Dispel Bound doesn't have the necessary durability feats to take repeated full power attacks from this duo, though Majin certainly does, as his shields can regenerate at FTL speeds and need to be destroyed one at a time (there are millions). However, DB is still a good hax nullification technique and can thwart against some of Hit's abilities, and stall the duo for a while. Other than that I agree with this statement besides your comment that it has limited hax defenses, though that's more of a personal gripe than an objective thing.

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TheDeathstar

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#16  Edited By TheDeathstar

@god_vulcan: DS himself doesn't have much of faster combat speed. His best combat feat is punching millions of times against Uriel if I remember and that is only high hypersonic - relativistic if you actually calculate it using his punch's speed and taking at least 1-meter distance in 1 second since he was also putting down the punch forward and back constantly while I think this seem a lowball but it is what it is. You need to punch billion times over to hit just Lightspeed in a second, I think DS is capable of being FTL in combat though. Also, you don't understand how absolute zero works do you? It doesn't depend on the user because absolute zero has a set degree that is -273.15 degrees Celsius and it can't go below that as atoms do not have energy to move anymore and Vegeta in Base I might recall resisted that.

I am pretty sure characters here have taken attacks which emit far more heat than just few million degrees. Namek Frieza took a planet's explosion right on face while he was Half-Dead which would be over thousands of millions degrees. Even a simple nuke generates millions of degrees at the core for some seconds.

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thelocust619

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#17  Edited By thelocust619

@thedeathstar: Tbh, Vegeta's AZ feat isn't really AZ either. It requires infinite energy to escape AZ, Vegeta doesn't have infinite energy. Also, the ice did not behave as AZ does: anything it touched should have froze too...the entire arena, the air in the arena, all of it.

If you compared Vegeta to someone who could tank a functionally sound AZ that worked how it should, that guy's cold resist would obviously be far higher. If you hit Vegeta with an AZ blast that actually functioned how AZ does, he doesn't have the feats to resist that.

This is a case of the creators not understanding what they're talking about, because the AZ we are shown is functionally much weaker than real AZ. It's about as valid as Godzilla's AZ feat...which is to say it's not.

PS. Vegeta's temp resist kinda sucks, considering hot steam and magma are dangerous to him.

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HigherPower

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#18  Edited By HigherPower

@thedeathstar:

DS himself doesn't have much of faster combat speed. His best combat feat is punching millions of times against Uriel if I remember and that is only high hypersonic - relativistic if you actually calculate it using his punch's speed and taking at least 1-meter distance in 1 second since he was also putting down the punch forward and back constantly while I think this seem a lowball but it is what it is. You need to punch billion times over to hit just Lightspeed in a second, I think DS is capable of being FTL in combat though.

I simply don't understand why you think it's ok or even logical to attempt debunking the speed feat I've been debating with a completely separate, unrelated one-- which, by the way, is still wrong. DS was throwing millions of already-FTL punches, attacks, and counterattacks in seconds, not 1 million human speed punches per second, which is what that calc (and the hypersonic-relativistic misconception) is based on. Not to mention it doesn't debunk his Konron blitzing feat at all, and that's the feat that makes him thousands of times FTL.

Also, you don't understand how absolute zero works do you? It doesn't depend on the user because absolute zero has a set degree that is -273.15 degrees Celsius and it can't go below that as atoms do not have energy to move anymore and Vegeta in Base I might recall resisted that.

Did you read my post carefully? Even if Vegeta did resist Absolute Zero, so what? How does that apply to Goku or Hit at all? You can't scale hax resistance through generic power lvl. It's unique to a character. So Goku and Hit (who are the ones fighting here, not Vegeta) can still get frozen.

I am pretty sure characters here have taken attacks which emit far more heat than just few million degrees. Namek Frieza took a planet's explosion right on face while he was Half-Dead which would be over thousands of millions degrees. Even a simple nuke generates millions of degrees at the core for some seconds.

This isn't convincing; I don't know how that applies to characters at hand. You're only nitpicking certain spells you think they have a counter to and aren't backing it with hard evidence. If Black Sabbath doesn't work, he can still destroy Hit's soul with Crow Bar or just TP Goku.

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thegreatlordd

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@god_vulcan:

It's a portion of "Energy of Destruction" from the weakest God, not Hakai in the same way such as Beerus.

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HigherPower

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#20  Edited By HigherPower

@thegreatlordd: Well I never trusted anything he said but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew if Goku had resistance to something like Hakai I'm prrtty sure I would've heard about it. Thanks, this further confirms DS's versatility and options in battle that give him an advantage against the Dragon Ball characters he's usually paired against-- considering I had counters prepared for both scenarios.

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Godren

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@thegreatlordd: Well I never trusted anything he said but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew if Goku had resistance to something like Hakai I'm prrtty sure I would've heard about it. Thanks, this further confirms DS's versatility and options in battle that give him an advantage against the Dragon Ball characters he's usually paired against-- considering I had counters prepared for both scenarios.

Just for some clarification, The sphere was a Hakai in the shape of a ball.Hakai is literally called "Destruction" and Sidra granted his assassin a ball of "Destruction" energy that works like a hakai but just another variation.it still pretty much erases you.Also, Sidra isn't the weakest God..that is pretty much nonsense.Each God is powerful in their own way and has a specialty which was shown in the manga when they fought.Sidra's specialty is shield conjuration making him the best god defensively.He was also the only one able to react to Beerus.

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HigherPower

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#22  Edited By HigherPower

@godren: Whether it was Hakai or not it doesn't help your case. Like I said, I had options prepared for both scenarios. Deathstar pretty much ignored several of my counters, as he didn't address Black Sabbath which creates a super-heated vacuum at millions of degrees, and to my knowledge Goku can't survive without oxygen or in space, so he'd die even if it wasn't for lack of heat resistance. Also, no real counters to absolute zero were given, nor basic TP. And Hit doesn't have a counter for soul destruction, so all in all we're back to square 1.

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@godren: Oh sorry then, I misinterpreted your intentions. Thanks for the clarification.

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TheDeathstar

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#25  Edited By TheDeathstar

@god_vulcan: I never ignored and I don't know where you get the Idea that Black Sabbath would work on Goku even though DS would already get blitzed and Hakai'ed here. Goku also has his Instant Transmission which he can use to escape and how does Absolute Zero feat doesn't apply to Goku? They have the same powerset that's like saying If Goku can survive Krillin's blasts then that won't apply to Vegeta. Also, it was never mentioned those were FTL Million punches, It's stated he punched million times in a second which is as clear as crystal which again makes him barely light speed in actual combat. The magnitude of energies they countered so far have much more than few million degrees of heat. You are indirectly saying they will be killed by a Nuke since they that also generates millions of degrees of heat at the core, this again is utterly useless.

Goku was surviving the epic center of Universal shaking punches which would go beyond just few million degrees of heat and was vaporizing distant asteroid fields and planets millions - billion miles away.

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MasterSkywalker

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As usual there are people who don't know the character already regurgitating the same falllacious arguments. DS wins here.

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TheDeathstar

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As usual mountain level Beerus guy comes and knows everything.

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Redzkz

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Hakai in DBS manga is only atomisation, it doesn't even destroy souls like in anime, so using this is kinda useless.

@chaos239 said:
@thedeathstar said:

Even Majin DS loses here and this one doesn't have any chance. Hit stops the time, enables Goku to move in it like he did particularly to the Alien guy. Goku Hakai's DS which had already worked beyond Galactic level beings erasing his existence from astral, soul and physical plane.

Hit can also BFR him by putting him into a time cage, an infinite loop of time.

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This Why is the Manga so much better?

Anime was hit and miss, but fight with Zamasu was much better in anime. Merged Zamasu started as deity, whom nobody can reach, then once someone reached him, he transformed into a demon. Manga Zamasu is just a screaming brick.

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TheDeathstar

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#29  Edited By TheDeathstar

@redzkz said:

Hakai in DBS manga is only atomisation, it doesn't even destroy souls like in anime, so using this is kinda useless.

@chaos239 said:
@thedeathstar said:

Even Majin DS loses here and this one doesn't have any chance. Hit stops the time, enables Goku to move in it like he did particularly to the Alien guy. Goku Hakai's DS which had already worked beyond Galactic level beings erasing his existence from astral, soul and physical plane.

Hit can also BFR him by putting him into a time cage, an infinite loop of time.

No Caption Provided
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This Why is the Manga so much better?

Anime was hit and miss, but fight with Zamasu was much better in anime. Merged Zamasu started as deity, whom nobody can reach, then once someone reached him, he transformed into a demon. Manga Zamasu is just a screaming brick.

Once you go Hakai'ed you don't come Bakai'ed.

Just Kidding.

I don't know why you would think it's just atomization when we already got an explanation from the Anime before Manga even showed it and that it can erase soul's existence and they won't even go in the afterlife. Sayings its atomization is just your assumption when it goes beyond just atomization. Manga Goku had never even seen Beerus doing Hakai on the panel and he knows how it works or what it is, how? We know he did see the Hakai because it was shown in the anime. That's the same thing here. If you're saying this isn't the same Hakai then Goku or Beerus don't know Hakai even though it was clearly shown by that logic.

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deactivated-5b728068f211c

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@redzkz: Manga Fused Zamasu's design was badass tho

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Galactic_1000

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I say Team.

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I really don't see how D.S. speed is consistent. How first he was so fast that he disappered from raphael's sight and blitz all seraphs simultaneously, but then when he was in majin form Raphael gave a statement of him that exchanging millions of blows per second. So is majin form weaker than base darsh? Cause I don't see Raphael getting any upgrade or being stronger than majin form. Its like piccolo giving speed feats for whis, and DB can be easily shatter by powerful attack rather that destroying it one at a time. IIRC in the manga it was also stated that DKL is relativistic.

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HigherPower

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#33  Edited By HigherPower

@deathmetal:

I really don't see how D.S. speed is consistent.

Because people like Deathstar are spreading misconceptions about feats in the series without fully understanding it themselves.

How first he was so fast that he disappered from raphael's sight and blitz all seraphs simultaneously, but then when he was in majin form Raphael gave a statement of him that exchanging millions of blows per second. So is majin form weaker than base darsh? Cause I don't see Raphael getting any upgrade or being stronger than majin form.

No. It was specifically stated that when DS activated Majin form that his regen, speed and power were increased to their maximum levels:

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It'd make absolutely no sense for him to be slower especially considering how many times it was stressed he gained a massive power increase. The feat he completed in Majin with the millions of blows doesn't contradict him being over 7,000x FTL prior, that's nonsense, and I'll explain why momentarily when I debunk Deathstar.

IIRC in the manga it was also stated that DKL is relativistic.

This is false.

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HigherPower

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#34  Edited By HigherPower

@thedeathstar:

I never ignored and I don't know where you get the Idea that Black Sabbath would work on Goku even though DS would already get blitzed and Hakai'ed here.

Darsh isn't getting blitzed. Hit is the only one who has a chance due to timeskip, but he's been blitzed before, only his opponents couldn't oneshot him with their speed advantage which gave him an opportunity to adapt to their speed. But that's not the case here, the second DS outspeeds either one of them he can launch a spell of which they'd have no answer for. Dispel Bound can be easily broken but considering they're auto-shields it would stall/deter against a blitz for at least some time.

Goku also has his Instant Transmission which he can use to escape

Like how he used Instant Transmission to escape while being encompassed in Sidra's Energy of Destruction? Right. Prove he'll even think to use IT while he's being roasted alive in a pocket space with no oxygen where he's dying away.

and how does Absolute Zero feat doesn't apply to Goku? They have the same powerset that's like saying If Goku can survive Krillin's blasts then that won't apply to Vegeta.

This is a horrible comparison. Ki blasts aren't a hax ability, they're generic energy blasts which durability feats can answer to, and Vegeta has feats that place him above Krillin. Vegeta resisting a [supposed] Absolute Zero attack in no way transfers to Goku or Hit. That's his own hax resistance feat.

Also, it was never mentioned those were FTL Million punches, It's stated he punched million times in a second which is as clear as crystal which again makes him barely light speed in actual combat.

He was already FTL (over 7,000x in fact) in base prior to going Majin, and when he went Majin it was stated his speed, power and regen were increased to their maximum levels:

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Before a follow up statement that confirms this by clearly implying all his combat related attributes were raised tremendously, and his spells were increased millions of times:

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Last but not least, Dispel Bound is a technique that bans not just physical attacks but magical hax abilities as well. Raphael stated that there are countless of DB shields and they change constantly, and in order to even get to his Eternal Atoms the shield has to be broken first, but they have to be destroyed one by one, not all at a time. In addition to that, the shields have to be repaired/regenerated at the same time while they're fighting. So, in a single second, Darsh wasn't just throwing millions of basic punches, but millions of movements, attacks, and counterattacks while protecting and regenerating his own shields to stop them from being destroyed:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

If you read the scans carefully you'll realize that he's doing so much more than you're giving him credit for, which is throwing 1 million basic punches. Darsh is literally trying millions of combinations of attack moves in order to break Uriel's DB and attack his Eternal Atoms, which he later did using Judas Priest. It doesn't discredit him being FTL, and doesn't contradict his speed feats in base when it was so heavily stressed that Majin form gave him a monumental increase in stats and overall power.

But the most annoying part is why you brought up Majin feats in the first place, when that's not the version of darsh fighting here. Focus on the feats at hand that I presented in the first few posts, instead of trying to debunk them by pulling out-of-context feats from separate versions that have no relevance.

The magnitude of energies they countered so far have much more than few million degrees of heat. You are indirectly saying they will be killed by a Nuke since they that also generates millions of degrees of heat at the core, this again is utterly useless. Goku was surviving the epic center of Universal shaking punches which would go beyond just few million degrees of heat and was vaporizing distant asteroid fields and planets millions - billion miles away.

That universe shaking feat is extremely controversial for Goku so I'd rather not discuss it. But even if I admit that he could survive the heat properties of Black Sabbath, I don't think he survive the matter compaction or it being pocket space vacuum. And you haven't given a counter for several other spells I've mentioned.

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@God_Buster: I think you didn't get my point. Even i know that majin form is million times stronger that his base form, but the one who is giving statement about its speed isn't he was blitz by base D.S. but in another chapter same character is giving speed feat of D.S. who became even more powerful, so that is my question if he had trouble keeping up with base form how can he give such feat for a superior form, also you claim that DB needs to be destroyed one at a time which is not true it was destroyed 3 times in the series by using a single powerful attack.

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@deathmetal: Well that's wrong. Raphael was never blitzed by DS. Darsh blitzed Konron and moved faster than Raph could initially percieve. I guess his eyes simply adjusted, because he could keep track of the fight later and gave a play-by-play during the battle with Uriel, when DS was much faster.

also you claim that DB needs to be destroyed one at a time which is not true

?

No Caption Provided

it was destroyed 3 times in the series by using a single powerful attack.

Oh really? Name them.

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Team loses.

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#38  Edited By Thedarkpaladin

If Darsh is really thousands of times FTL in base form, which he is, I don't see where the notion of Hit or Goku blitzing is coming from.

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@God_Buster: That is the same thing even he wasn't able to see that which only means that if he would have been in konron place then he would be dead too, his eyes adjusted and was able to see the fight. Now that's just your assumption without proof. Dark Schneider was able to break Uriel's DB with a single shot from Loudness All Guns Blazing. Uriel was able to break Darsh's DB with Gungnir. Darsh was able to break Konron's DB with a basic attack, which again states that raph's statement was incorrect. Also D.S was able to overpower uriel and oneshot his shields instantly and not by destroying one at a time.

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#40  Edited By HigherPower

@deathmetal:

That is the same thing even he wasn't able to see that which only means that if he would have been in konron place then he would be dead too, his eyes adjusted and was able to see the fight. Now that's just your assumption without proof.

I don't see your point. Yes, Uriel wasn't able to keep track of the blitz with Konron, but he wasn't the only one making statements on Darsh's speed and abilities after he went from base to Majin. Beelzebub gave details explanations of the battle and said many things that went parallel to Uriel's statements, some even going hand to hand with each other, so if you're attempting to debate it as an inconsistency your argument falls flat. And it was also implied Raphael paid greater attention to the details of the battle when he started describing it to Macpayne, as opposed to when he was simply watching before. So saying his eyes adjusted isn't far off, all he did was scrutinize, and even if you don't accept it we can substitute Raph's statements for Beelzebub's which were more or less the same thing.

Dark Schneider was able to break Uriel's DB with a single shot from Loudness All Guns Blazing

This is false. Uriel's DB was already broken through at that point. This was explicitly stated when Majin Darsh was fighting Uriel in his Fallen form:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

..and by the time Gungnir clashed with LAGB, Uriel was in Augoeides and DS summoned DKL, which are entirely different forms.

Uriel was able to break Darsh's DB with Gungnir.

This is also false. The collision of Gungir and LAGB destroyed the Black Abyss and the Gates of Hell. There was no evidence either of them took damage from the attack.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Darsh was able to break Konron's DB with a basic attack, which again states that raph's statement was incorrect.

Konron doesn't even have Dispel Bound, what the hell are you talking about?

Also D.S was able to overpower uriel and oneshot his shields instantly and not by destroying one at a time.

No he didn't. He destroyed them one at a time which is why it took millions of attacks and counterattacks a second in the first place. I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

No Caption Provided

I mean, does this look like he oneshotted them instantly to you? Are these single attacks?

No Caption Provided

What about this? Are they not viciously trading blows?

No Caption Provided

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@godren said:
@god_vulcan said:

@thegreatlordd: Well I never trusted anything he said but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew if Goku had resistance to something like Hakai I'm prrtty sure I would've heard about it. Thanks, this further confirms DS's versatility and options in battle that give him an advantage against the Dragon Ball characters he's usually paired against-- considering I had counters prepared for both scenarios.

Just for some clarification, The sphere was a Hakai in the shape of a ball.Hakai is literally called "Destruction" and Sidra granted his assassin a ball of "Destruction" energy that works like a hakai but just another variation.it still pretty much erases you.Also, Sidra isn't the weakest God..that is pretty much nonsense.Each God is powerful in their own way and has a specialty which was shown in the manga when they fought.Sidra's specialty is shield conjuration making him the best god defensively.He was also the only one able to react to Beerus.

It was "some" destruction Energy, but not Hakai in the same way as Beerus. Sidra seems to be the weakest God and if he isn't, then who is?

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RIP to Goku resisting authentic Hakai then.

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@thegreatlordd: We don't actually know.Beerus, Quitela, and Belmond are pretty much strongest combat wise with Beerus being the best in Martial Arts.The gods that are exempt from the tourament were pretty much easily taken out.For example the elephant god Rumsshihas the most powerful voice and he was able to pretty much stun all the gods in the arena.

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@God_Buster: Raphael was the one who made the speed statement which is irrelevent cause he wasn't abe to see base D.S. Again you are saying your own word that his eyes adjusted without any proof, raphael isn't HIT that he will adapt to speed after seeing it if that is true then do provide proof my argument still stands how was he able to see majin if the couldn't see base form? Yes konron has DB every angel and demon has it to protect their eternal atoms. Raphael itself said that D.S. DB surpassed the power of uriel regeration which is why he was beaten which clearly states that DS increased his power and onshotted it also they both tried to destroy each others DB but fail. When uriel was in his augo form he oneshotted him which was so poweful that his power, defenses and judas pain was completely deactivated and when darsh went DKL he destroyed uriel's DB with his guns which was again a powerful attack other than high speed.

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Darsh

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#46  Edited By HigherPower

@deathmetal: You're starting to annoy me. You continue to accuse me of not providing proof for my arguments when nearly every single argumentative post I've made in this thread came with a scan dump, yet when you reply it's a single, condensed paragraph with bad punctuation and heaps of bullshit. This is my last reply to you in this thread. If you decide to refute go ahead, but I won't proceed to waste my time on someone who flaunts ignorance and can't format rebuttals properly.

Raphael was the one who made the speed statement which is irrelevent cause he wasn't abe to see base D.S.

This is false. And even if I accept the fact that Raph not being able to see DS in base but track him when he was faster is an inconsistency for him, it in no way debunks Dark Schneider's speed itself but rather could void Raphael's statements concerning them, which for several reasons don't matter. The main one being that Raphael wasn't the only one commenting on the fight, statements from Beelzebub and Macpayne very clearly imply that Dark Schneider gains a massive increase in stats (which would include speed) and power after going Majin, so the notion that Darsh is faster or physically superior in base than he is in Majin form is pure, unadulterated drivel. He's proven to be thousands of times FTL in base, and after activating 7 Judas Pains his stats, spells and power rise astronomically (and this was stated multiple times):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Again you are saying your own word that his eyes adjusted without any proof, raphael isn't HIT that he will adapt to speed after seeing it if that is true then do provide proof my argument still stands how was he able to see majin if the couldn't see base form?

So? What's your point? Where are you going with this? What are you trying to say? I hope you realize the only reasons I told you his eyes "adjusted" was because I thought you were genuinely curious and were simply trying to find out whether Dark Schneider's speed was consistent. When I first addressed you in post 33 I literally posted scans that proved he became faster in Majin, and did so several times throughout the course of the thread. You keep harping on Raphael's statements, but they don't disprove any of Darsh's speed feats or make them inconsistent, since Raphael wasn't the only one who commented on the fight. The narrator even mentioned Konron's Augoeides being FTL and star lvl and Darsh oneshotted it. So that's why I'm extremely curious to know, what's your overall point? Darsh doesn't have a single inconsistent speed feat. Statements tend to contradict each other in the series but none of the ones that do have any bearing to the thread at hand, so, what's your point?

Yes konron has DB every angel and demon has it to protect their eternal atoms.

Again, this is false. Konron has regular spell bounds and spell barriers, but DS has had those since before the first time-skip. And Konron's main barrier was Void howling:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Dispel Bound was described similarly (magical barrier/forcefield etc.) but it's very obvious that if Konron had it it would've been introduced and described then, the way Raphael did when going over Darsh and Uriel's. What you're thinking of is Eternal Atoms, because that was the ability that dictates that all high tier demons and angels have it:

No Caption Provided

Raphael itself said that D.S. DB surpassed the power of uriel regeration which is why he was beaten which clearly states that DS increased his power and onshotted it also they both tried to destroy each others DB but fail. When uriel was in his augo form he oneshotted him which was so poweful that his power, defenses and judas pain was completely deactivated and when darsh went DKL he destroyed uriel's DB with his guns which was again a powerful attack other than high speed.

Sigh. There's no evidence either Darsh or Uriel retained their DB after leaving their Majin and Fallen forms to ascend into Augoiedes and DKL. Uriel's DB was already broken before, which is Darsh was able to land a hit, then attacked him with Judas Priest. Darsh later deactivated the Pains after Uriel attacked him augoeides, but unless you can provide a scan that proves Darsh's DB was actually broken during the fight, you'd have no proof. And good luck with that, I just re-read the last 40 chapters of the series.

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@god_buster:

So? What's your point? Where are you going with this? What are you trying to say? I hope you realize the only reasons I told you his eyes "adjusted" was because I thought you were genuinely curious and were simply trying to find out whether Dark Schneider's speed was consistent. When I first addressed you in post 33 I literally posted scans that proved he became faster in Majin, and did so several times throughout the course of the thread. You keep harping on Raphael's statements, but they don't disprove any of Darsh's speed feats or make them inconsistent, since Raphael wasn't the only one who commented on the fight. The narrator even mentioned Konron's Augoeides being FTL and star lvl and Darsh oneshotted it. So that's why I'm extremely curious to know, what's your overall point? Darsh doesn't have a single inconsistent speed feat. Statements tend to contradict each other in the series but none of the ones that do have any bearing to the thread at hand, so, what's your point?

Raphael's isn't superoir to darsh that he can give his speed feat, if it would have been a destructive feat than it would have been consistent but it's not, also all of seraph speed is based of travel speed not on combat. which directly states that none of them was able to see him that only means that they don't combat speed at that level, also all of darsh speed feat are coming from guys who are inferior to him. which does not prove his speed been consistent.

Sigh. There's no evidence either Darsh or Uriel retained their DB after leaving their Majin and Fallen forms to ascend into Augoiedes and DKL.

This is wrong. when darsh and uriel left their form both of them ascend into augo and DKL and even in that form they had their DB. also the scan shows how darsh broke uriel's DB with LAGB which was a powerful attack rather than a high speed attack all of uriel's shields was broken simultaneously and not one at a time.

  1. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124701/3386230-lagb1.jpg
  2. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124701/3386231-lagb2.jpg
  3. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124701/3386232-lagb3.jpg
  4. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124701/3386233-lagb4.jpg

Darsh later deactivated the Pains after Uriel attacked him augoeides, but unless you can provide a scan that proves Darsh's DB was actually broken during the fight, you'd have no proof.

this is also wrong darsh himself didn't deactivated the Pain Uriel attack was so powerful that all of his spells was repelled back, which also shows that his DB was also destroyed with just one attack not by breaking one at a time.

  1. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139933/3489721-dispel+bound+13.jpg
  2. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139933/3489722-dispel+bound+14.jpg
  3. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139933/3489723-dispel+bound+15.jpg
  4. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139933/3489725-dispel+bound+17.jpg
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@God_Buster: Konron had DB in his augo form which darsh onshotted all at the same time

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111151927/3887409-konron+1.jpg

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#49  Edited By HigherPower

@deathmetal: You ignored 3 paragraphs and switched your argument concerning the fabricated inconsistency of Darsh's speed. Intially you were saying it doesn't make sense for Raphael to make statements on Majin Darsh's speed when he couldn't track him in base, which I addressed by saying we can substitute for Beelzebub's statements on Majin Darsh's speed in order not to contradict his prior feat of moving FTE to Uriel. Now you're trying to say Darsh doesn't gain speed feats from blitzing Konron because Seraphs only travel 7,000x FTL and don't combat at those speeds (an argument that has been debunked SO many times. Read post 15 again, I described it in detail) which is wrong.

Concerning the last two things, there was no proof those magical shields were DB. They could have been regular spell bounds or barriers; all of them look the same so you have no idea which is which unless it's specified. And for the record I do believe there are exceptions and that Dispel Bound can get broken by single powerful attacks, but only if that attack is like universal or above. Don't get it twisted, I'm not NLF'ing Darsh's capabilities and characters like Zeno would easily oneshot him if given the chance. I'm just debating whether characters in his weight class DC and durability wise can do it.

And lastly, Uriel attacked him with enough power to cause him to forcibly deactivate the Pains. We meant the same thing just said it different ways.

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#50  Edited By HigherPower

@deathmetal: That's Konron's Spell Barrier. He had it in base form not just Augoeides. Literally read post 46 again, I already mentioned it.

Not everyone glowing, magical sphere surrounding a character in Bastard!! is Dispel Bound.