Hit and Kefla vs Toppo

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#1 Posted by floydfromhell97 (1096 posts) - - Show Bio
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Rules:

  • Team is Bloodlusted
  • All Feats are Allowed
  • Perfect Teamwork
  • Random Encounter-No Knowledge
  • Wins by Death or K.O.

Location:

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#2 Posted by Oreoghoul (2635 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla solos

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#3 Edited by poeticwarrior (3576 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla in SSJ1 form beat SSB KK Goku, Kefla was able to push Goku into Ultra Instinct form which is stronger than the spirit bomb that pushed him to that form the first time. It's stated that SSJ2 Kefla would have killed Ultra Instinct Goku if the attack connected and her attack was able to scrape Ultra Instinct Goku. When you add in Hit who could bind Jiren, they stomp. Nothing could stop Hit from binding Toppo and Kefla gives him a dose of double sundae. I can't see a single way for Kefla and Hit to lose here. Especially if Golden Frieza could resist Hakai and Vegeta can dodge and attack through it. Someone like Kefla could dodge and cut through it and even if Hit can't resist it, he could easily avoid it with his timeskip.

I think Kefla could beat Toppo by herself, but you could argue that point, when you add in Hit, it's an absolute stomp. You don't even have to add in bloodlusted considering Caulifla is in a violent gang while Hit is an assassin. XD. I'm not sure if moral is part of their code in the first place.

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#4 Posted by ChaosReigns (278 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with team.

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#5 Posted by SabbaVSK (573 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla in SSJ1 form beat SSB KK Goku, Kefla was able to push Goku into Ultra Instinct form which is stronger than the spirit bomb that pushed him to that form the first time. It's stated that SSJ2 Kefla would have killed Ultra Instinct Goku if the attack connected and her attack was able to scrape Ultra Instinct Goku. When you add in Hit who could bind Jiren, they stomp. Nothing could stop Hit from binding Toppo and Kefla gives him a dose of double sundae. I can't see a single way for Kefla and Hit to lose here. Especially if Golden Frieza could resist Hakai and Vegeta can dodge and attack through it. Someone like Kefla could dodge and cut through it and even if Hit can't resist it, he could easily avoid it with his timeskip.

I think Kefla could beat Toppo by herself, but you could argue that point, when you add in Hit, it's an absolute stomp. You don't even have to add in bloodlusted considering Caulifla is in a violent gang while Hit is an assassin. XD. I'm not sure if moral is part of their code in the first place.

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#6 Posted by Sup3rn0va (1767 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla can probably solo

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#7 Posted by finalbeta (272 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla is enough

They take this mid diff at the very worst

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#8 Posted by Etherious (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Team high diff.

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#9 Posted by destinyman75 (15947 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla could solo in a hard one

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#10 Posted by eri123 (7241 posts) - - Show Bio

Team

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#11 Posted by Boby501 (545 posts) - - Show Bio

Team tho Kefla ain’t soloing.

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#12 Posted by ChromeDisaster (719 posts) - - Show Bio

There is nothing stopping Kefla from stomping him. She's arguably faster, she is stronger, and has better striking feats.

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#13 Posted by MoneyyJunee (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

Team stomps pretty hard

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#14 Posted by MattyBoi (2854 posts) - - Show Bio

@sabbavsk said:
@poeticwarrior said:

Kefla in SSJ1 form beat SSB KK Goku, Kefla was able to push Goku into Ultra Instinct form which is stronger than the spirit bomb that pushed him to that form the first time. It's stated that SSJ2 Kefla would have killed Ultra Instinct Goku if the attack connected and her attack was able to scrape Ultra Instinct Goku. When you add in Hit who could bind Jiren, they stomp. Nothing could stop Hit from binding Toppo and Kefla gives him a dose of double sundae. I can't see a single way for Kefla and Hit to lose here. Especially if Golden Frieza could resist Hakai and Vegeta can dodge and attack through it. Someone like Kefla could dodge and cut through it and even if Hit can't resist it, he could easily avoid it with his timeskip.

I think Kefla could beat Toppo by herself, but you could argue that point, when you add in Hit, it's an absolute stomp. You don't even have to add in bloodlusted considering Caulifla is in a violent gang while Hit is an assassin. XD. I'm not sure if moral is part of their code in the first place.

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#15 Posted by Y3kthunder (169 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins

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#16 Posted by AlexTheBoss (19621 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure about Kefla soloing, but the team should win, especially since they are bloodlusted with perfect teamwork.

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#17 Posted by ComicGirl21 (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

Toppo.

Not many people realize this, but Toppo was massively holding back while fighting Vegeta, because he didnt want or could kill him. Belmod straight ordered him to do anything BUT kill him. And that's exactly what his main power, hakai, does. It's like Hawkeye with his bow disabled. Several times Toppo had upper hand and the ability to kill Vegeta, and he wouldve, but instead he was forced to hold back or just use regular ki instead of hax to not get DQ'd.

Here, he can just release hakai and turn everything and everyone to vapour without any restrictions.

Neither Kefla nor Hit have the feats to withstand hakai.

Toppo wins with some difficulty, GoD hax were clearly stated and showed to be above both time skip and potara fusion.

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#18 Edited by Sup3rn0va (1767 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicgirl21 said:

Toppo.

Not many people realize this, but Toppo was massively holding back while fighting Vegeta, because he didnt want or could kill him. Belmod straight ordered him to do anything BUT kill him. And that's exactly what his main power, hakai, does. It's like Hawkeye with his bow disabled. Several times Toppo had upper hand and the ability to kill Vegeta, and he wouldve, but instead he was forced to hold back or just use regular ki instead of hax to not get DQ'd.

Here, he can just release hakai and turn everything and everyone to vapour without any restrictions.

Neither Kefla nor Hit have the feats to withstand hakai.

Toppo wins with some difficulty, GoD hax were clearly stated and showed to be above both time skip and potara fusion.

Vegeta straight up punched through Toppo's Hakai, so saying Toppo wasn't trying to kill him doesn't make any sense, Vegeta was just simply stronger and negated it.

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#19 Posted by cromulor (2821 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla solos. Her power as a Super Saiyan was compared to that of the Team Universe 7 Spirit Bomb and then her power as a Super Saiyan 2 was compared to Goku’s first time as UI Omen. Not only that, she was able to graze UI Omen Goku (2nd time) multiple times and even cut off a bit of his hair.

Toppo lost to an all out Super Saiyan Blue Evolved Vegeta who Whis himself stated in the original to be about the same level as Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20 Goku (who is logically weaker than UI Omen).

And, even if Toppo was holding back, and why would he be when Belmod outright told him not to? Hit would ensure the team wins this. Toppo would never be able to escape the Cage of Time. And Kefla could easily kill him if he was frozen like that.

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#20 Posted by DoctorDaMn (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21: Do you guys exercise common sense??? You're like the 4th person I've had to correct on this... If you were in toppo's situation (meaning no matter what you do you're getting knocked out of the tournament) would you:

A. Hold back against vegeta and get knocked out of the tournament leaving the guy who sent you to the bench able to gang up on your last teammate(which is exactly how goku,17,and freiza beat jiren btw) or

B. Kill vegeta, disqualifying yourself but leaving your last teammate in a better position than had you not killed him

You tell me because with the universe on the line, I know what any sensible person would do... (Not to mention, vegeta knocked toppo out of his destroyer form when he got done with him; toppo couldn't even stand up)

Ot:kefla could give toppo a good fight on her own; adding hit definitely gives the team the win

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#21 Posted by DoctorDaMn (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor: The same spirit bomb that jiren glared away? And the same jiren that commended vegeta after he got knocked on his ass by a fp regular blue final flash??? (Keep in mind both jirens were holding back)

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that kefla couldn't beat toppo ( I think she would take a minority could be convinced that she would take a majority) but comparing her ssj1 to that spirit bomb, which wasn't really all that special then comparing her ssj2 to a tired worn down ui omen goku and then using that to say she definitely solos doesn't make sense.

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#22 Posted by Masma94 (238 posts) - - Show Bio

The team should take this, Kefla would be able to give a good fight to GOD Toppo while Hit's time cage should give the team a decisive advantage to U6.

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#23 Posted by DeadpoolUchiha (370 posts) - - Show Bio

Team

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#24 Posted by cromulor (2821 posts) - - Show Bio

@doctordamn: That Spirit Bomb was stronger than anything else Goku could do, as he called it his trump card. That’s a testament to Jiren, not an antifeat/antistatemet to Goku or Kefla. Also, Jiren’s glare has outright stopped Blue Kaioken Goku in his tracks and his glare held a full force bloodlusted Golden Frieza completely still.

Statements from the peanut gallery tell us Goku’s Ui Omen got stronger each time he used. The second time should be greater to the first time, and Whis compared Kefla’s Super Saiyan 2 power to the first time.

I want to make one thing clear about my argument though. I think Kefla solos, but I don’t think it’s a stomp. She’s the clear winner to me, but she isn’t just going to oneshot Toppo. Like I said though, I firmly believe that even if Toppo was stronger, Hit would make up the difference.

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#25 Posted by DoctorDaMn (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

@cromulor: I can respect that (kefla soloing but not outright stomping) epically since we both agree on the outcome of the match...

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#26 Edited by ComicGirl21 (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@doctordamn said:

@comicgirl21: Do you guys exercise common sense??? You're like the 4th person I've had to correct on this... If you were in toppo's situation (meaning no matter what you do you're getting knocked out of the tournament) would you:

A. Hold back against vegeta and get knocked out of the tournament leaving the guy who sent you to the bench able to gang up on your last teammate(which is exactly how goku,17,and freiza beat jiren btw) or

B. Kill vegeta, disqualifying yourself but leaving your last teammate in a better position than had you not killed him

You tell me because with the universe on the line, I know what any sensible person would do... (Not to mention, vegeta knocked toppo out of his destroyer form when he got done with him; toppo couldn't even stand up)

Ot:kefla could give toppo a good fight on her own; adding hit definitely gives the team the win

You'd be probably right if you were referring to a real life situation. But this is fiction. The way authors write their characters take priority over logic, especially if we get statements that prove otherwise. Yes it would be much more beneficial for Toppo to kill Vegeta and at least take out one fighter with him that way, but he was specifically ordered by Belmod to NOT kill Vegeta, even when Vegeta turned the tables and Toppo already realized he is probably gonna lose.

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That's exactly what happened. Even when Toppo was already losing, Belmod said specifically that he CAN NOT KILL VEGETA. So even though it would make more sens if he did it, we still have a solid proof that Toppo was massively holding back his hakai to not kill Vegeta.

Also, it's a fact that both Kefla and Hit do not have any feats of resisting hakai, so Toppo should be able to erase them. Pride amped SSJBE Vegeta doesn't scale to anyone but Toppo and Jiren so there is no way to compare him to Kefla and make out who is stronger.

So even if we assume Toppo was not holding back, he still scales a lot better. By default, Toppo is stronger because his hax is superior and has better feats, like warping world of void or breakin ToP arena in half, while Keflas final attack didn't even seriously mess it up.

Toppo wins, because he has objectively better feats, and better hax.

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#27 Edited by DoctorDaMn (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21: So if he was holding back meaning he still had power left to spare, why was he completely knocked out of his destroyer form and on his back without the power to even stand up on his own??? I mean, was he also holding back his durability as well? Not to mention, I don't think jiren would have complemented vegeta on beating a holding back toppo...

What you're saying doesn't make sense; we don't use throw away lines from characters when they completely contradict what was shown/logic...

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#28 Posted by ComicGirl21 (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@doctordamn: listen to yourself. You're the only one not making sens here. You only apply your own logic to the story, and ignore what characters were actually saying or doing.

I didnt say Toppo had strength to spare. I didnt say he was holding back his durability. You make this up on your own, and then debunk it on your own to score points. You are arguying in circles with yourself.

What I said happened, and we know happened was this: Toppo COULD NOT use hakai hax to its full potential. What hakai hax does is erasing things from existance. And Toppo couldnt use hakai to erase Vegeta, so he was either applying regular ki attack where he could potentially use hakai to kill Vegeta, or was using hakai in a very restricted amount, to make sure people he hits dont get erased.

This is a completely different situation. Toppo can just erase Hit and Kefla whenever he wants. And based on their feats, I see no reason why this wouldnt be effective. And on top of that, like I said, Toppo's feats like breaking ToP arena objectively better than either Hit or Keflas.

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#29 Edited by Captain_Narlowe (278 posts) - - Show Bio

As far as I know is Kefla superior to Toppo, why has he no partner?

The team should win without difficult.

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#30 Edited by DoctorDaMn (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21:

1. I don't apply my own logic to the story; I apply logic (as in basic logic) to the story

2.Your using your own head canon/ falty logic;toppo was clearly using pure hakai, not just regular ki as seen when vegeta deflected his attack; it erased instead of just exploding like normal ki would do...If you wanna go the other route and say that toppo was restricting his hakai usage then that means you are arguing that he was holding back.

Most people could very clearly see that toppo (especially at the end with that massive hakai ) put everything that he had into that attack. So again I ask: if he truly held back, (which you are arguing for even if you don't realize it) wouldn't he have at least had enough energy left to stand???

Hell let's look at this from another perspective since you're so stubborn; since you're arguing that toppo was "massively holding back his hakai" why didn't he just cloak himself in his massively superior hakai (yes toppo can cloak himself in hakai) to protect himself from vegeta's final explosion??? Going by your logic, Toppo would have been completely immune to vegeta's attack if he had since he was holding back so much hakai hax wouldn't he??? Not to mention, that wouldn't have killed vegeta, but it most certainly would have kept himself in the tournament wouldn't it

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#31 Posted by niBBit (783 posts) - - Show Bio

The team would probably win but imo God Toppo is stronger than Kefla. Don't forget that Kefla fought a tired and beaten down Goku Blue, a fact mentioned by multiple characters and at first he was doing just fine againt Kefla. Then Goku goes kaioken (unknown number) and lands solid hits, numbing her arm and really hurting her moments later, that coming from a tired Goku Blue kaioken times?? doesn't put Kefla in a good light to me, especially againt God Toppo who is at Vegeta SSBE lvl or Goku Blue KKx20. I don't remember the manga to well but didn't Kefla lose against Gohan?

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#32 Edited by thebuckaronatr (2023 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla could solo and with Hit is it a stomp.

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#33 Edited by poeticwarrior (3576 posts) - - Show Bio

@nibbit: manga has a different power level and continuity. Goku knows hakai from looking and Toppo knows Hakai from being a GoD, so they're different. Manga Kefla is A LOT weaker than anime. The tournament characters also have different power level as well. Kefla being weak in the manga has no relation to her power level in the anime.

The issue here is that it doesn't just limit her at SSJ1 but goes up to SSJ2 where she could even tag UI Goku with her AoE and the amount of energy was so much higher than anything Goku faced before. While tired, the issue here is that Kefla moves faster than Goku could perceive, twice. Throughout the entire tournament, no one could push him to UI point outside of Jiren, Spirit Bomb, and Kefla which was stated to be stronger than the spirit bomb that hit him previously.