Hiruzen third hokage vs golden Shiki

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Round 1 both in their prime

round two both old

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CyberBlades22

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Round 1: Prime Hiruzen doesn't have much feats but has some hype of being the strongest Kage at his time, still don't think it's enough to beat Shiki who fought Roger and also fought Sengoku and Prime Garp so Hiruzen loses here.

Round 2: Shiki easily wins here.

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Raziel2014

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mismatch fight,

Shiki stomps pretty bad.

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Adi_Frost

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Prime Hiruzen is a featless character who has the hype of being the strongest kage. If we accept that then Hiruzen wins round 1 against Shiki.

Round 2 - Shiki is far stronger than Hiruzen. But Hiruzen would stalemate if he pulls the reaper death seal. But Shiki is superior at nearly everything else so I would say Shiki wins 7/10 times. The rest 3 are stalemates cause Hiruzen went reaper death.

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exauce

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Shiki drops some Island on the poor guy

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Raziel2014

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#8  Edited By Raziel2014

@adi_frost said:

Prime Hiruzen is a featless character who has the hype of being the strongest kage. If we accept that then Hiruzen wins round 1 against Shiki.

Round 2 - Shiki is far stronger than Hiruzen. But Hiruzen would stalemate if he pulls the reaper death seal. But Shiki is superior at nearly everything else so I would say Shiki wins 7/10 times. The rest 3 are stalemates cause Hiruzen went reaper death.

but he is not the strongest kage he never was, there was a reason why the ninja world was peaceful when hashirama was kage but right after he died ninja wars 1-3 happened, all of these wars happened when Hiruzen was at peak, hiruzen at his peak was not any better than the other 4 kages at the time if he was so much stronger none of the other countries would of attacked them in the first place and wars 2-3 would of never happened.

Hashirama alone completely suppressed the entire world and nobody starting shit because they knew they would get rekt, unfortunately hashirama is an idiot and did not unify the world, who the hell gives 8 nukes to other powers.

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citgo

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@adi_frost said:

Prime Hiruzen is a featless character who has the hype of being the strongest kage. If we accept that then Hiruzen wins round 1 against Shiki.

Round 2 - Shiki is far stronger than Hiruzen. But Hiruzen would stalemate if he pulls the reaper death seal. But Shiki is superior at nearly everything else so I would say Shiki wins 7/10 times. The rest 3 are stalemates cause Hiruzen went reaper death.

but he is not the strongest kage he never was, there was a reason why the ninja world was peaceful when hashirama was kage but right after he died ninja wars 1-3 happened, all of these wars happened when Hiruzen was at peak, hiruzen at his peak was not any better than the other 4 kages at the time if he was so much stronger none of the other countries would of attacked them in the first place and wars 2-3 would of never happened.

Hashirama alone completely suppressed the entire world and nobody starting shit because they knew they would get rekt, unfortunately hashirama is an idiot and did not unify the world, who the hell gives 8 nukes to other powers.

wars happened cuz of that idiot Tobirama

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citgo

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Databooks state Hiruzen stronger than Hashirama but no feats to suggest this, so not useable, on the other hand he's stronger than Tobirama due to the minor feats in the war arc. Shiki probs take this

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Adi_Frost

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@raziel2014: Wars did not happen because Hashirama was well known throughout the world. He was the leader of the strongest clan and his exploits against Madara were well known throughout the world. Hiruzen was a kid at that point. The peace existed because of Hashirama and after his death, wars happened.

Hiruzen didn't have an instance yet to showcase his strength, hence he wasn't well known. He made a name through the wars and subsequent battles as the strongest hokage. So nope, what you said falls flat. Hashirama upholding peace in no way clashes with Hiruzen in his prime being the strongest. Both are true.

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Adi_Frost

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@citgo said:

Databooks state Hiruzen stronger than Hashirama but no feats to suggest this, so not useable, on the other hand he's stronger than Tobirama due to the minor feats in the war arc. Shiki probs take this

I don't think old hiruzen is stronger than Tobirama. Portrayal wise Tobirama seemed to be much better than him. Only in one instance did Hiruzen do better than Tobirama and it was when Naruto was being absorbed by the god tree. But I don't think that is enough to substantiate why Hiruzen is better Though he is much more versatile.

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Zuriel-el

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#13  Edited By Zuriel-el

@adi_frost: @adi_frost: Lol guys Hashirama died in the first great ninja war (i believe madara caused this war by attacking countries Hashirama forged alliances with) Tobirama died in the second great ninja war (hiruzen was made hokage during this war for being the only one among tobirama's six students willing to die for his comrades to live On), hiruzen didn't fight in the third great ninja war, it was minato who brought the world to its knees, Tsuchigakure and kumogakure stopped fighting because of minato, kirigakure were defeated by sunagakure and konoha in alliance. After minatos death, kumogakure resumed hostilities which led to the incident in which hyuga hizashi (nejis dad) had to die in place of hyuga Hiashi.

Hiruzen ain't some guy who fought through three wars, he fought half a war at tobiramas side, and then the rest alone until the legendary sannin became a thing, during the third great ninja war, he was home dispatching ninja into battle.

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Adi_Frost

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#14  Edited By Adi_Frost

@zuriel-el said:

@adi_frost: @adi_frost: Lol guys Hashirama died in the first great ninja war (i believe madara caused this war by attacking countries Hashirama forged alliances with) Tobirama died in the second great ninja war (hiruzen was made hokage during this war for being the only one among tobirama's six students willing to die for his comrades to live On), hiruzen didn't fight in the third great ninja war, it was minato who brought the world to its knees, Tsuchigakure and kumogakure stopped fighting because of minato, kirigakure were defeated by sunagakure and konoha in alliance. After minatos death, kumogakure resumed hostilities which led to the incident in which hyuga hizashi (nejis dad) had to die in place of hyuga Hiashi.

Hiruzen ain't some guy who fought through three wars, he fought half a war at tobiramas side, and then the rest alone until the legendary sannin became a thing, during the third great ninja war, he was home dispatching ninja into battle.

That is what I mean't when I said hiruzen proved his capabilities in the subsequent wars. We don't know if he fought in the first great war, but he did in the second and he was made the hokage.

Also, I don't know where you got the info that Hashi died in the first great war. As far as I can remember, there is not a single evidence to support this. Hashirama's death is still a big unknown. I personally think he died due to some illness.

IMO, I don't think hashirama fought in the first great war. I think he died before it. Didn't Muu and 2nd mizukage die in the first great war? Or was it the second great war?

Out of all the wars, the first great war is the one which we have the least information on.

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Sonochinosadame

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Round 1: HIruzen if hype counts.

Round 2: Shiki, easily.

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Zuriel-el

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#16  Edited By Zuriel-el

@adi_frost: Dude based on hiruzens own flash backs, he was a kid when hashirama was alive, during the first war he didn't fight, hashirama created konoha so children wouldn't go to war. For instance minato didn't fight in the second ninja war (he ia nagatos age), jiraiya went into battle Leaving his students (team jiraiya) behind.

Illness is going to kill the guy who is better than tsunade at healing? whose cultivated cells made madara and obito into people Who could survive fatal injuries, heal quickly (regrow body parts), who don't need food or water for survival? The way i see it the speculation on hashirama dying in war is true as hiruzen/tsunade said the first and second gave their lives for konoha. (not sure where it is in the manga but its part one). Its likely he died like the third raikage did, fighting alone against unsavoury odds, because tonirama died in the second, theres no way hashirama died before the first due to tobiramas age (he and hashirama aren't very far apart).

Hashirama died during, he was a grand father before he died, in other words he met tsunade amd nawaki, the latter died in The second great ninja war On team orochimaru,. He gave tsunade the necklace nawaki wanted remember?

Yesbut the second is the longest. It lasted through tobiramas generation, hiruzens generation and got to jiraiyas (he met nagato during the second).

The third started when minato was probably a teenager.

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Adi_Frost

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@adi_frost: Dude based on hiruzens own flash backs, he was a kid when hashirama was alive, during the first war he didn't fight, hashirama created konoha so children wouldn't go to war. For instance minato didn't fight in the second ninja war (he ia nagatos age), jiraiya went into battle Leaving his students (team jiraiya) behind.

Illness is going to kill the guy who is better than tsunade at healing? whose cultivated cells made madara and obito into people Who could survive fatal injuries, heal quickly (regrow body parts), who don't need food or water for survival? The way i see it the speculation on hashirama dying in war is true as hiruzen/tsunade said the first and second gave their lives for konoha. (not sure where it is in the manga but its part one). Its likely he died like the third raikage did, fighting alone against unsavoury odds, because tonirama died in the second, theres no way hashirama died before the first due to tobiramas age (he and hashirama aren't very far apart).

Hashirama died during, he was a grand father before he died, in other words he met tsunade amd nawaki, the latter died in The second great ninja war On team orochimaru,. He gave tsunade the necklace nawaki wanted remember?

Yesbut the second is the longest. It lasted through tobiramas generation, hiruzens generation and got to jiraiyas (he met nagato during the second).

The third started when minato was probably a teenager.

Dude based on hiruzens own flash backs, he was a kid when hashirama was alive, during the first war he didn't fight, hashirama created konoha so children wouldn't go to war.

Ok.

Illness is going to kill the guy who is better than tsunade at healing? whose cultivated cells made madara and obito into people Who could survive fatal injuries, heal quickly (regrow body parts), who don't need food or water for survival?

You see, it was stated that rapid healing like that requires splitting of cells which reduces the life span of the user. So by illness, what I mean't is, he died because of that.

The way i see it the speculation on hashirama dying in war is true as hiruzen/tsunade said the first and second gave their lives for konoha. (not sure where it is in the manga but its part one). Its likely he died like the third raikage did, fighting alone against unsavoury odds, because tonirama died in the second, theres no way hashirama died before the first due to tobiramas age (he and hashirama aren't very far apart).

I also don't remember that part where it was stated. I would like to see it but considering you also don't remember where it was, then fine. Ehhh, my theory was that he died a natural death because of the overuse of regeneration like tsunade. It might be possible he survived the first war and died after that. Or maybe even before that. Or like you said, maybe in the war itself. But I think the natural death reasoning sounds more convincing to me.

Hashirama died during, he was a grand father before he died, in other words he met tsunade amd nawaki,

Now now, he did meet tsunade but it's never stated that he met Nawaki. It's very much possible Hashi died before that.

the latter died in The second great ninja war On team orochimaru,. He gave tsunade the necklace nawaki wanted remember?

Yes, which means Hashirama died long before Nawaki died. Maybe even before Nawaki was born because all Hashirama remembers is a 2 or 3 year old tsunade.

In which war did Muu and second Mizukage die? Because I think in that war, Hashirama was dead by that point.

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Wabubub

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Hiruzen is too lacking in feats while Shiki, as a movie character, has a fairly decent amount of combat feats that put him at a fairly impressive level.

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I place my bet on the guy who can litterally use islands as weapons , at an old age.

Shiki both round.

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Yungboi99

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Wasn't old shiki slicing up mountains with air pressure and using islands as weapons?

Any shiki stomps both rounds.

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Zuriel-el

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@adi_frost: My post will be up in a few houra (probably tomorrow), just realized i have made errors and had a few misconceptions, will be correcting them. Please bear with me for a bit.

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citgo

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@citgo said:

Databooks state Hiruzen stronger than Hashirama but no feats to suggest this, so not useable, on the other hand he's stronger than Tobirama due to the minor feats in the war arc. Shiki probs take this

I don't think old hiruzen is stronger than Tobirama. Portrayal wise Tobirama seemed to be much better than him. Only in one instance did Hiruzen do better than Tobirama and it was when Naruto was being absorbed by the god tree. But I don't think that is enough to substantiate why Hiruzen is better Though he is much more versatile.

maybe he was stronger than Tobirama as that was old Hiruzen revived not prime, maybe in prime he was better than 2nd

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Hiruzen one shots the verse in a mismatch

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