High Tier Tournament R1: thenamelessone vs shirso - (CLOSED: Nameless Wins)

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ProfessorRespect

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#1  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

thenamelessone

Characters

  • Sosuke Aizen (3)
  • DMS Kakashi (3)
  • Gerard Valkyrie (2)
  • Dante (1)

Perks

  • Perk Negation (ALL perks are removed) (15)

shirso

Characters

  • Joie (10)

Perks

  • Mind immunity (7)
  • Battle Computer (4)
  • Prof picks a character (2)
  • Flight (1)
  • Spider Sense (1)
  • One Universe: Kenshiro's Hokuto Shinken

Rules

  • You are given 10 character points and 15 perk points to be spent exclusively on their respective fields (unless certain perks are obtained to excuse otherwise)
  • Win by Death, Incap, or KO. Standard Gear.
  • DC Characters are composite Post Crisis New 52 and Rebirth, standard power levels. Marvel is 616 and current unless directly stated otherwise.
  • Unless otherwise stated Wildstorm characters are allowed their feats from DC comics.
  • Manga characters are manga/anime/novel.
  • Dragon Ball characters are restricted up to Cell Saga and are manga/movie, no anime feats.
  • Video Game Characters get Game/Tie in comic material.
  • Star Wars is EU: Everyone is also allowed their canon feats and are current.
  • No reality-warping (powers that may fall under this or have some association will be dealt with on a case by case basis due to the broad/vague nature of reality-warping).
  • No Luck Manipulation
  • No Existence Erasure or Conceptual Attacks.
  • No Power Stealing, Power Copying/Sharing is limited to present allies only, though characters like Amazo still have their capabilities.
  • No Summons, constructs, or any other fodder can be stronger than or amped beyond a FTL speed Jupiter Buster.
  • Summons, constructs or any other fodder cannot possess any durability bypassing hax themselves.
  • Summons, constructs, or any other fodder are limited to a cap of 1000.
  • Cloning is limited to 50.
  • Immortality is allowed but if a character has their all physical presence on the battlefield destroyed then they are considered to be KO'd and are out of the fight.
  • Characters without a tangible physical form are not allowed (I.E. ghosts, conceptual forms, etc) though intangibility is fine.
  • Time Jumping, remnants, and speeding up or rewinding one's own time is allowed. Other forms of time manipulation are banned.
  • Battlefield Removal (BFR) is allowed but has a time limit of one minute.
  • Characters cannot be argued or amped above Star Busting and Picosecond speeds under anycircumstances. Any example of this being broken will result in a immediate disqualification, no questions asked. Hax will similarly be judged under this scale when necessary.
  • Character requests are completely fine! I will need either a fully cited RT or at least a majority of the feats that said character has, however, alongside full disclosure on how strong you think they are. If I discover that you've hidden feats that are off-limits or that break rules, I will provide a immediate disqualification, no questions asked.
  • Posts should be done within the space of 12 days. Extensions can be requested ahead of time: please be reasonable about these if you do end up asking for one because I'm not going to be giving you more than a week at the very most unless you're near death. Respect the patience of myself and those who are waiting to post.

Battlefield

The battle takes place in an uninhabited solar system analogous to our own. Contestants start on an Earth-like planet that will reform after being destroyed 100m away from each other.

No Caption Provided
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ProfessorRespect

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@thenamelessone@shirso I'll let you two decide who posts first (unless you want me to do a virtual coin toss to determine it)

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shirso

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#4  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online
@shirso said:

@professorrespect: Does Perk Negation take away the One Universe perk also?

It takes away everything that isn't character-related (like trading perk points for extra characters and vice versa) so yes.

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Eisenfauste

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I'll vote in this one.

shoulda took Jirou smh

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shirso

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@professorrespect: Gotcha, one other thing does the BFR time limit extend to self BFR as well?

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@shirso said:

@professorrespect: Gotcha, one other thing does the BFR time limit extend to self BFR as well?

All forms of BFR, so yes.

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#8 cergic  Online

TAEP or T4V at the very least

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ProfessorRespect

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shirso

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ProfessorRespect

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Decaff

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#12  Edited By Decaff

T4V

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teep

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ProfessorRespect

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#16  Edited By shirso

Live to Eat

No Caption Provided

Toriko is a world where everything revolves around food, world wars are fought over ingredients, chefs are more important than politicians and religious figures and just about every profession seen relates to food in one way or the other. The story follows a young novice chef Komatsu who teams up with a famous Gourmet Hunter named Toriko as they go on many adventures to seek out rare foods, fight increasingly more powerful and dangerous beasts and eventually uncover an ancient conspiracy that threatens the very existence of their world.

Setting the Table

Some key concepts before delving deeper:

Gourmet Hunters: Professionals who seek out rare and difficult to obtain food ingredients.

Capture Levels: A number that denotes how hard a certain ingredient is to capture. Barring 1 or 2 exceptions, this number is a very reliable and consistent indicator of combat ability in the series, making it very useful for internal scaling. The higher the Capture Level for a beast, the more powerful and harder to capture it is. And these levels are exponential rather than linear.

E.g: It takes 10 pro Hunters with shotguns to defeat a Lvl 1 beast while the 4 Beast Limbs (Lvl between 100 and 150) performs feats such as crushing continents in their wake, having poison that can erode an entire continent or no selling a military bombardment that can turn a landmass > USA into a wasteland.

Toriko planet: The planet where all the action happens is special in many ways, for starters it's quite huge, size wise somewhere between Neptune and Saturn, with a circumference of 220,000 km. But that's scratching the tip of the iceberg. The majority of the planet is made of an unique mineral which continuously grows by absorbing energy. And at the time of the story has reached a point where it's explosion would release energy > a supernova. This feature also allows this planet to support many peculiarities that would otherwise be impossible on a normal planet, from a mountain with gravity strong enough to crush beasts far above (that beast was lvl 705) the previously mentioned continental+ 4 Beast Limbs to nothing, to a whale with a black hole in its belly.

As such I'd say the energy required to bust the Toriko planet would be many many times simply large planet lvl as just superficially looking at its size would imply.

Human World and Gourmet World: The two portions the planet is divided into, the Human World is much smaller and where most human civilization flourishes. By contrast the Gourmet World is mostly wild and home to far more exotic and powerful beasts and ingredients.

Gourmet Cells and Appetite Energy: These are like the basis of the verse's power system, Appetite Energy is like the primal energy from which everything originated, first released as the result of the Big Bang billions of years ago. This energy gave rise to Gourmet Cells which are specialized, extremely potent cells responsible for all the superhuman powers we see in this world. Apart from specialized superpowers, Gourmet Cells also offer a number of baseline benefits such as reactive evolution to adapt to harsh environments like intense gravity and fast regeneration, for example Toriko in a much weaker form was able to continuously keep regenerating his entire skin suffering 3rd degree burns and regenerate heavy internal damage.

Gourmet Cells also get stronger when you eat high quality, compatible ingredients which brings us to...

Acacia's Full Course: A standard Gourmet 8 course meal, that is also the full course of the Toriko planet itself. In short, you can say these are the rarest and most high quality ingredients in the verse. Eating each item, apart from greatly strengthening the Gourmet Cells overall, also unlocks an unique ability.

Appetite Demons: These are powerful monster spirits born from Gourmet Cells and reside within an individual, the very embodiment of their appetite energy. They can at times come out and possess their vessel to fight, greatly increasing the vessel's combat strength, and also take charge if the vessel's soul has been sucked out. Eating Acacia's full course fully unlocks and awakens one's Appetite Demon.

Golden Materials: Essentially the Admantium of this verse, nigh indestructible material formed from a supernova+ explosion of a ripe planet, used to cook difficult ingredients in difficult environments.

Knocking: Basically simple pressure point techniques at core, mostly used to incap and capture creatures without killing them. But it evolves to full on energy nullification like stopping the very rotation of the planet and even more esoteric levels like stopping time itself as the series progresses !

Ultimate Routine/Intimidation: The basic pseudo science-y idea of Ultimate Routine is visualizing a hyper realistic image to accomplish stuff through the power of suggestion. Such an image can also be projected to the minds of others. Basic applications when first introduced included stuff like giving and curing yourself of ulcers at will, gradually at a high tier it became full on TP induced fear hax that can even outright kill the target, another word for Intimidation.

Back Channels: Pockets of compressed space-time where time passes very slowly compared to the outside world. This effectively gives the user an overall speed amp as Back Channels aren't static, you can move around while wrapping yourself in one. This ability is obtained from consuming ANOTHER, the fish from Acacia's full course. Back Channels also provide other versatility, such as teleportation, spatial gouging and undetectability.

Now I will introduce a few characters and entities important for scaling...

Acacia and Froese: Acacia is like Gourmet Jesus, a Gourmet Hunter who was active centuries before the present story that discovered countless valuable ingredients including something that stopped the Gourmet World War. Somewhat of a Madara figure. Froese was the cook he partnered with, every Gourmet Hunter in this setting in general has a cook they partner with to prepare the ingredients they hunt.

Acacia's Disciples: Ichiryuu, Midora and Jirou, 3 young lads that grew up being mentored by Acacia. The 3 strongest people in the world in the present day, and each has enough power to wipe out the Toriko planet. Furthermore, Jirou who is a Knocking expert can also easily nullify the supernova+ explosion of the Toriko planet.

The 4 Heavenly Kings: Toriko, Sani, Zebra and Coco, the most preeminent Gourmet Hunters of the present age and the main protagonists of the story. Their unique abilities in brief are, Toriko: Appetite Energy projection that takes the form of piercing implements like forks and nails, Sani: Powerful hair that can act like a shield, nerve lock targets and more, Zebra: Powerful voice and sound manipulation powers, Coco: Poison.

The 8 Kings: The strongest beasts in the world, each rules over one of the continents in the Gourmet World and have Capture levels over 6000. Impressive feats include:

So all in all a group of beasts residing well in the star lvl ranges.

Neo: One of the primary antagonists of the series, Neo is a powerful Appetite Demon lurking within Acacia with quite literally a bottomless appetite that devoured an entire universe in the past, albeit over time. Mere spores of Neo are able to resist Jirou's Knocking through its "furious energy" and no sells his Guinness Punch, one of Jirou's stronger attacks, although it does end up sending the Spore to space. In spite of how powerful these Spores are, it's clearly shown an individual spore can't beat a 8 King.

The main Neo himself, even while not fully revived and at his strongest, ate a mini supernova that'd also have completely vaporized Toriko planet.

Neo-Acacia: The final antagonist of the series, this is the fused version of Neo and Acacia, formed when Acacia ate revived Neo, with a staggering capture level of 30,000. So basically Neo's power + Acacia's power. For reference, recall the 8 Kings had Capture Levels between 6000-7000. What's important to note is that Midora was able to physically fight against this fused Neo-Acacia, hold his own and damage him with his own attacks, showing parity. In fact Midora was the only other besides Toriko who dealt actual heavy damage to Neo-Acacia. A combined attack from all 8 Kings was casually consumed by just revived Neo alone.

Starjun: Another important character in the series, he started off an antagonist then transitioned to the heroes' side and fought against Acacia and Neo in the final war. He is considered comparable to Toriko at a certain point in the series by Acacia himself. Which is notable as Toriko and Starjun in weaker forms prior to this (they ate several items from Acacia's full course after) can unleash a combined attack that can seriously damage a 8 King, forcing it to dodge, so I'd say both Toriko and Starjun are individually comparable to a 8 King by the time Acacia makes that comparison.

Setsuno: The cooking partner of Jirou, one of Acacia's aforementioned 3 disciples. She is incredibly powerful in her own right, during the final war she erected a barrier spanning the entire Human World that protected it even from Unsealed Jirou's Guinness Punch, which is stated to be a Toriko planet busting attack but also has scaling to the planet's supernova+ explosion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope that gave you a big picture overview of the main ideas and characters making up the verse's power system and internal scaling, along with the standard baselines the high and top tiers benefit from.

To recap:

Jirou can easily nullify supernova+ lvl explosions.

Neo Spores scale to supernova+ lvl being able to resist Jirou's Knocking through their energy alone.

The 8 Kings show clear superiority to individual Spores and have star lvl feats and scaling of their own, such as the 10 km Whale with a black hole inside, the Snake whose digestive juices can melt the Neo that ate a mini supernova and entire stars in the past or the Dragon whose laser was too fast and strong for even Neo at his strongest to consume.

Starjun is comparable to a 8 King.

Setsuno is a character who even while stretching a barrier across the entire Human World (which is actually around irl earth sized) can stop powerful attacks from Jirou.

The fused form of Neo-Acacia is massively superior to even the 8 Kings combined and was matched by Midora.

The Dark Chef

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Joie has a complicated origin, he was a male chef originally whose name was removed from the world's history for dabbling in the Dark Arts of cooking. Centuries later his spirit is reincarnated in Froese (the cooking partner of Acacia)'s body for reasons I won't get into here and all hell breaks loose. Joie is a giant prick in general and served the narrative role of The Dragon throughout the series to Acacia's big bad.

Basically a gender bent psycho.

Starters

Now let's get to where exactly Joie himself ranks on the verse's totem pole.

Joie is one of the most powerful characters in the series, although not quite touching the god tiers. Raw power and stats wise I'd put him up there with the 8 Kings at least, if not above, given how he was very confident of fighting the entire group:

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This is reflected in his other feats as well such as 100 Million Slice Fillet which is an incredibly powerful air pressure based piercing attack (as you can imagine, being a chef, Joie's techniques resemble cooking ones) that even after someone like Setsuno blocking it caused significant damage to Setsuno herself as well as the surroundings:

Consistent with him being able to rather casually stop Jirou's Guinness Punch and no sell the resulting explosion in his face:

As Jirou states in the last scan there, by virtue of possessing Froese's body, Joie also gets all the benefits of eating Acacia's full course, including a fully revived Appetite Demon.

He is also a physical match for Starjun, who is a 8 Kings level character, being able to match his attacks and keep up in speed, this in spite of Starjun having precognition and stacked Back Channels to increase his speed even further:

But due to having Froese's legendary cooking knife Cinderella, Joie can slice through characters much stronger than him like a hot knife through butter anyway, such as Midora:

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Which is a nice segway to her other hax, which is what makes her truly lethal. As stated all her abilities revolve around the theme of cooking, starting with:

Taste Change: Just by lightly slashing a target, Joie implants a special mind controlling bacteria that turns the target into his minion:

Back Channel: Having a body that has eaten Acacia's full course, Joie is capable of using Back Channels, his Back Channel can at least make a few seconds seem like an hour inside:

Joie's baseline speed scales to the Dragon King's laser which crossed inter planetary distances and went off to a nebula in deep space in a panel as he was able to unleash an attack to intercept that laser before it crossed a few dozen meters.

Intimidation: Every top tier can use Intimidation like it's second nature and Joie is no different.

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Here I want to present the level of Intimidation that a 8 Kings tier opponent would be operating at:

The Monkey King simply revealing his true form, not even seriously wanting to fight (he is in fact literally just trying to play with Toriko and co there), causes a planet wide panic attack. This is quite a large planet but the more impressive thing is he affected even Gourmet World beasts who already have layered resistance to Intimidation. As I showed previously Toriko when first entering the Gourmet World can kill beasts around lvl 500-600 with Intimidation alone but random apes in the Monkey King's continent are way beyond that on whom that level of Intimidation naturally has 0 effect and there are even far stronger beasts in Gourmet World, even above lvl 4000.

So this is large planet lvl TP on sheer scale alone, but even more impressive as it worked on probably hundreds of thousands of powerful Gourmet World beasts with layered resistance of their own.

One other thing, Intimidation at this tier not only packs a lot of raw power and potency, but is also incredibly precise, it could affect every single sentient cell in the 4 Heavenly Kings' bodies, nearly scaring them to death, just from the Monkey King getting angry for a moment:

Life Orbs: Orbs containing Food Spirits inside that will die for you incase you take lethal damage. Basically a bunch of free extra lives and Joie seems to have at least a few dozen in his hair.

Germs: Probably Joie's nastiest asset, he uses various kinds of germs in combat, the most combat applicable one outright devours you, and it works on characters more powerful than Joie like Midora. As you can see this germ absolutely rips Midora a new one:

And I'd argue these germs work on a sub atomic level as Midora's Hungry attack which is essentially atomic destruction could not get rid of these germs, as Joie states even "eaten" they are rotting Midora from the inside:

Midora also has atomic level control over his body himself through Minority World, making the feat even more impressive.

Joie also used this germ later on Starjun with the same effect, another character on his tier of power. This is also notable as Starjun is a fire user and he already countered Coco's poison with his body heat in an astronomically weaker form pre time skip. Coco's poison being much superior to poison that can erode entire continents.

Golden Materials: I mentioned these before, nigh indestructible materials generated from the supernova+ explosion of a planet ripened by Gourmet Cells. Joie had a Golden Can that can be used for sealing, even someone as powerful as Midora.

The Course to Come

That should be enough to start you off. Broadly you need to prove you can deal with:

  • Joie's passive Intimidation which is essentially large planet lvl TP induced fear hax that can break past even layered resistances.
  • His germs which work on a sub atomic lvl and can easily consume star lvl characters with absurd regeneration and atomic level control over their body.
  • Sealing through Golden Can.
  • Mind control through Taste Change.
  • Putting Joie down for good when he has a few dozen extra lives through Life Orbs in addition to the high level of reactive evolution and regeneration provided by his own Gourmet Cells.
  • Of course Joie's own raw power and stats that operate at the very limits of this tourney.

I will mention one other thing, since you have Perk Negation, this is essentially a random encounter between a rag tag squad of 4 characters from 3 different verses, none of whom have ever even met each other, and with pretty disparate personalities against one much superior character. Can they actually band together and put up a fight ? I am eager to find out.

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shirso

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ProfessorRespect

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shirso

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firefly489

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TAEP

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Eisenfauste

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Nice post.

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Alekos

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TAEP

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cergic

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#23 cergic  Online

Nice

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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Nice post, Taep.

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Taep

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BoutaTakeAnL

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Majungasaurus better be voting throughout this tourney. Quite a sophisticated individual

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ProfessorRespect

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thenamelessone

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ProfessorRespect

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Per PM @thenamelessone has asked for three days extension on top of the remaining time.

Therefore his post must be done by the 29th.

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ProfessorRespect

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thenamelessone

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No Caption Provided

We are the sons of Sparda, within each of us flows his blood, but more importantly, his soul! And now, my soul, it says it want to stop you.

Dante

Introduction

Dante is the protagonist of the majority of the Devil May Cry series. He, along with his twin brother Vergil, are the product of a romance between the Dark Knight Sparda and a human woman named Eva.

After losing his mother to demons as a child, Dante grows up to become a demon-hunting mercenary who runs his own devil-hunting business named Devil May Cry. Dante operates as a mercenary, mostly accepting jobs involving the supernatural. He has a fondness for strawberry sundaes and pizza, and a source of comic relief in the series is his indebtedness and apparent lack of gambling skills.

While he maintains a cocky and lackadaisical exterior, deep down, he is a compassionate man devoted to fighting for the good of humanity and helping his friends and his nephew, Nero.

Now, it seems to me that Shirso was eager to know if the team can work together, sadly I don't think I'm pushed to a point where I will have to do all that, and the team itself is not pushed to a point where they will have to do too much, because certain members of my team can individually win this and the member who wins the quickest, is Dante.

Demonic Power of the Son of Sparda

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frankly, I don't need to mention as much as you did to match your power level and attack potency, the above is a being called Saviour, the culmination of countless demonic entities into one single existence, the Saviour after losing Nero which would severely affect its powers, is capable enough to construct recreations of the conventional world, the said existence was doing it very easily, seconds at most if you want to put it in numbers.

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This is largely impressive due to the consistent existence of suns in some of these realms.

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And yes, when I say consistent I do mean consistent, so we've one sun and then the existence of a planet and then the existence of a moon.

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as I've displayed already, the construction of the realms is near-instant and effortless, but for sure measure, I will post all the instances where the construction of the realms is shown to be near-instant.

[1]

[2]

[3]

as explained, Demonic energy is inherently tied to power and thus it's basically Saviour's demonic energy taking dimensional shapes and constructing at least three separate celestial bodies, A Star, a Moon and an Earth all done nearly instantly as we can see on-panel. another thing, Saviour's destructive capabilities directly are implied to be similar to his creation capabilities, considering Saviour was considered to be capable of destroying and recreating the world in the same sentence, this goes in consistent with Saviour with less demonic energy than 100% due to the crystals breaking and Nero splitting, the remaining demonic energy can still easily construct dimensions with sun-moon-earth trio.

"The purpose of the Order was to build an ideal homeland...only those who are chosen by God...the paradise that is eligible to live...in order to change the now decaying world...we have to do this...in order to create a new world, we had to set off huge chaos and destroy the world...

Deadly Fortune

...

The sound came from afar, although it was a lot weaker, but Dante smiled and heard the contents of it. It was too funny to call out the demons and then destroy them to be heroes. However, the high voice of the Pope continues:

"Come on, come and pray! Give a hymn! When the world is not destroyed!"

Dante felt that they were really desperate, and appreciative applause. Dante has witnessed many wicked people who are self-proclaimed heroes.

Deadly Fortune

And Dante was capable of battling the Saviour for an extended amount of time and besting it, thus besting beings with the casual energy to perform Star-level feats, if you need I can post the calculated results for the Saviour's power, they all come at Star-level.

thus in a contest of clashing energy attacks, Joie would not come even close to overpowering Dante, or even Saviour for that matter.

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Nightmare, a being with no will, created by the earlier demon kings is the embodiment of ruin and destruction, Nightmare was such a powerful monster that it was sealed away by Mundus because he knew that Nightmare could lay waste to all of Demon World, which was more or less Mundus's kingdom, the nature of the destruction was not stated in the manga but it was stated in another source which quite literally states that the Demon World would perish if Nightmare is to be released and then we've another source detailing the actual method of destruction, the method being the literal lifting and slamming of the demon world and thus destroying it.

now, with all that out of the way, we need to discuss the nature of the demon realm it's size and dimensions have to be conversed upon for us to reach a good judgement on what level this narrative puts the nightmare's physical strength on, first of all we will look at the Mirror world which is a replica of the human world and as we can see, it contains a sun, we don't know the area the terms of "demon world," and "human world" cover and bind but that is certainly a measure, the replica of human realm containing the sun, moon and the earth similar to before.

now with that in mind, we've an official source showing us how the human realm and demon realm stack up to each other, the human realm seems to be smaller of the two if anything.

No Caption Provided

and even after all of that, sources state that Mundus can only use Nightmare as a weapon, as in it has absolutely no shot against Mundus who once again, Dante has already bested, by this scale I would argue Dante has a level of power where he can lift realms with stars and earth in them, and that's again, at the absolute limit of the tournament.

FeatContextTier
The SaviourSaviour contains entire dimensions within it in a magical sense, ones with stars and celestial bodies that it constructs from its own demonic energy and it is directly tied to his abilities to destroy as well, the construction of the realms is near instant.Star Level clearly in terms of energy output
NightmareNightmare, a being that embodies destruction and ruin, can lift and slam the demon world, destroying it and the demon world which is bigger than the human world its replications contain a Star, showing casual Stellar StrengthStar level clearly in terms of physical strength.

in all stats of power, Dante is a completely even match for Joie.

Joie cannot touch Dante

Simply speaking, Joie is not fast enough to outpace Dante, because as earlier shown Dante's stats function at the absolute pinnacle of the tournament but in addition, his skill makes him more or less untouchable for most present in the tournament, I will display this here, first let's look at Dante vs Mundus in Devil May Cry I, Mundus constructs a universe and flies away, they battle each other while flying through the stars.

https://streamable.com/jeli10

now a conventional quantification of this feat is nearly the realm of impossibility, but something I noticed recently was how they traversed from a distance where every star looked just like another star to a distance where they reached a rocky planet clearly with an atmosphere, storms and so forth, clearly reaching at least a certain distance from one of the stars, thus reducing the distance between their initial positioning and one of the Stars.

clearly, the planet would need the Sun's energy to have a storm, a gravitational force to keep it active from a geothermic perspective and so forth, thus the Planet being reasonably close to one of the Stars that seemed very distant in the first video I posted.

now, for quantification's sake, let's look at the planet itself.

https://streamable.com/aergee

taking the Solar System as analogous to our solar system, we can identify the place as a part of an inner solar system, considering the rocky and solid structure of the planet, so now let's function with two options, Earth and Venus.

It cannot be Earth due to the distinct lack of Water or life, so we go on to Venus being the perfect place, not literally Venus but the distance between the Star and the planet is equivalent to the distance between the Sun and Venus, contextually we will take the distance between this planet and it's star as equivalent to the Venus's perihelion, which is about 0.72AU.

Final Distance = 0.72AU from Star.

At a point where the Sun starts seeming like just any star, lowballing, would be Pluto's aphelion which is about 49.5AU

initial Distance = 49.5AU from Star

so taking that into account, we have our starting point and ending point, and can simply calculate the distance travelled by Mundus and Dante while fighting

Distance Travelled = 49.5-0.72AU = 48.777AU

just 1AU is equal to one hundred Forty-Nine Million Kilometers, and in this context, there is 48.77AU being travelled casually while fighting, more or less, in the midst of their battle Dante and Mundus casually crossed 7.4-Billion-Kilometers and now, to take the timeframe, realistically Dante back in Devil May Cry III had relativistic feats very consistent when he was far weaker than Mundus fight version, but for the sake of no calc stacking, I'm gonna assume the feat was done in 30 seconds, which is a literal eternity from the perspective of characters this fast.

Putting it in numbers?

Speed = Distance/Time = 7,445,486,069km/30s = 248,182,867.98km per second.

Dante was crossing 248 Million kilometres in a single second while casually fighting someone else, in numbers that is about 827 times the speed of light, operating yet again near the limits of the tournament for both Dante and Mundus.

but this is not where it ends, we've seen speed, now let's move on to skill

in the Devil May Cry II novel, we meet an alternate version of Mundus, one more powerful that has gained oneness with an infinite Void, who attacks and fights Dante, Void Mundus was implied superior to the original version and thus he gets the same attack speed and scale as above aka operating near the limits of the tournament, and this comes with the added benefits of omnipresence as he is described to be everyone in this void/darkness, the darkness that encompasses the whole void and is an infinite void.

It was terribly dark for a human, accompanied by echoes that evokes despair to those who hear it. It was no longer a laughter of this world. Beryl heard it. A high-pitched, echoing laughter. So dark it couldn't possibly be human, the mere sound just by hearing it would make one cannot help but feel despair. Up and down, or even left and right are uncertain in this space, she is standing alone. There is no sign of Dante nearby. It can't be. Right now he is, beyond Beryl's gaze---in the palace of the endlessly spreading darkness, where a fierce battle is unfolding. His opponent, is the Demon King himself? It's so large that it surpasses all the demons she has ever dealt with or have seen, a body structure that gives the impression of immeasurable power. It is so strong that she felt like falling down just by looking at it, an intimidating feeling she had no way of resisting. It's appearance, she cannot capture it as an image. Only the coagulate darkness

so now, we've Mundus operating near the limits of the tournament speed-wise with the added benefits of omnipresence throughout an infinite Void, and now Dante is immersed in that void.

what does Dante do now? well, go out, stand in the endless Void, dodge all of Mundus's attacks and destroy him.

No Caption Provided

The dark body, which was thought to never take damage, groaned and shuddered in pain.

"That's a good voice. Give me more."

Fierce gunshots roared, and countless bullets turned into arrows of light that ran through the Demon King.

The mere balls of lead that weren't anything special made even the supposed overwhelming being that is the Demon King suffer in pain, hurting him and even eventually causing him to creep away.

But of course, the Demon King wasn't just going to sit back and let himself be beaten.

His countless arms swung down swords, rained down arrows of demonic power, and fired bolts of lightning, all in an attempt to bury the insolent challenger.

"You are naive, Mundus. I already know what you're capable of."

As he said that, Dante's footwork was light and he ran through the empty space, avoiding most of the attacks.

Furthermore, his counterattacks were painfully delivered upon the Demon King, inflicting fatal wounds.

The Demon King, Mundus, could not understand this.

He was supposed to be an absolute being, an eternal ruler free from even the flow of time, and to rule over all things in creation.

Yet now, here was an opponent who had power that could rival his--

Nay, perhaps this opponent is even more powerful than he is.

so now, what does this mean? well, what it means is that even if a character gains omnipresence while his reaction and combat speed function at the limits of the tournament, due to the sheer skill gap, they still won't be able to touch Dante.

FeatContextTier
Dante vs Mundus part IDante and Mundus start battling and cross so much distance, that they go from an interstellar positioning to an actual rocky inner planet, taking it as equivalent to our solar system for the sake of quantifiability, you get around them casually crossing 7.4 Billion Kilometers in a relatively short timeframe.827 times the speed of light casually
Dante vs Void MundusVoid Mundus, who is superior to and scales from the previous feat gets to become one with a void, Dante stands in that void and somehow evades all of his attacks, if you will, evading omnipresence.He is skilled enough to be untouchable to a MFTL character while standing in a place where the said character is omnipresent in

Demonic Magic and Powers

  • Demonic Aura - Dante, just like other demons, has a demonic aura and a massive presence potent enough to cause things to explode but in addition, he can impose the primordial instinct of fear on things that should logically be completely unbounded by such a concept, Dante's demonic Aura is so potent that even inanimate objects, which should have no concept of fear, are absolutely terrified at his mere presence.
No Caption Provided

in this scenario, Joie's body itself may start turning on them, not because Joie is gonna get fear haxxed, but rather because Dante's aura can impose fear on every single one of Joie's organs and cells with nothing to do with her mind.

  • Sparda's darkness - Dante has shown the power to consume and engulf something in darkness, completely negating their powers and reverting them back to their original powerless states, which seems to be innate to Sparda's power more than anything else, Dante used this against a demon to negate their power and transformation and revert them back into their normal state.
No Caption Provided
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Dante can consume Joie in darkness and simply negate anything she attempts and revert her back to her original natural state rather than combative state, just like he did to the demon here, yet another ability that would be difficult to counter

  • Ebony and Ivory - with Ebony and Ivory, if the attacks land, they can downright disintegrate your existence, as in break you down molecule to molecule to the point that there aren't even any atoms left, deconstructed on a sub-atomic level, obviously, this is deconstruction on a sub-atomic level.
Right to Left

attacks from Ebony and Ivory might as well deconstruct Joie to the level of Quirks.

  • Gilgamesh - With Gilgamesh, Dante has the power to manipulate the composition of organic matter to turn them into metals nearly instantly, he absorbs them and then uses their essence to construct steel.
No Caption Provided

any organic ability or matter on the battlefield will simply be manipulated by Dante.

  • Analytical Prediction - Dante is capable of combating Chen on equal footing via abusing his analytical prediction and ability to predict Chen's moves, his analytical prediction more or less works on the same level as Chen's precognition, which is something that goes beyond time itself and can see all futures instantly, more or less a buffed version of Almighty from a recognition standpoint, it goes volumes to speak about Dante's sheer intelligence to have analytical prediction of that level.
No Caption Provided

Anything Joie will think of doing, Dante will predict and counter instinctively.

  • Mind and Memory Destruction - Every Hit from Dante can destroy One's Mind and Memory, destroying the very thoughts themselves and thus every hit won't just be on the basic spiritual and physical level, it would be on mental and memory level as well, and thus would completely fuck up his opponent without significant mental damage counters showings.
  • Demonic Adaptations - Dante has the power to evolve and go past hax, as he did to weapons that are anti-devil and absorb demonic energy which had previously affected him.
Right to Left

What does this mean? if an ability Joie has doesn't one-shot Dante, then it will simply be adapted to, countered and beaten.

  • Sparda's Sealing - Innately, beings of Sparda are capable of sealing demons and things away, Dante's sealing is even more potent than Sparda's, now why does this matter? because this means Dante's sealing is greater than Sparda's entirely, which means that Dante can downright be scaled to Sparda sealing away entire planes of existence.
No Caption Provided

so Dante's sealing potency is beyond characters that can seal the entirety of the Demon realm, and Dante can seal things up in something as casual as Ebony and ivory bullets.

  • The Yamato - now the craziest one of them all, Yamato, The prized possession of Sparda and the most powerful weapon in the setting, one of its main powers is to literally manipulate existence and split it into two, giving power its own form and being, separating power from heart aka the individual, and thus leaving one powerless, because the power has been transformed into a new existence.
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one slash of the Yamato, and there is no more Joie, There is now Heart and Power.

now, a short recap

AbilityContextClassification
Demonic AuraDante's general Aura just like almost every demon has one, his aura is so potent that even things that should technically lack any possibility of fear, feel absolute fear such as inanimate objects, this can be useful in combat to make Joie's worms and his own cells fear and work against himAdvanced Intimidation
Sparda's DarknessOne of Dante's innate powers that allows him to engulf his opponents and revert them back to their non-offensive powerless natural states, completely negating their powers.Power Negation
Ebony and Ivoryhis normal projectiles, their ability is to break down his opponents, cell to cell, molecule to molecule, Atom to Atom and deconstruct them thoroughly to the point even not a single atom remains in existence after he is done with them.Sub-Atomic Deconstruction
Gilgameshhis the ability to absorb and reconstruct any organic matter into steel and weapons of his choosing.Transmutation/Matter manipulation
Analytical PredictionHis ability to predict movements and attacks is so accurate that he can combat people with precognition so powerful they can see all futures, to the end of time and even beyond it.Analytical Prediction
Mind and Memory Destructionwith every blow of Rebellion Dante can cut through your mind and destroy your thoughts, each blow pushes someone like Mundus (with insane mental strength due to withstanding Argosax) to a state of Brain Death.Mind-Destruction
Demonic AdaptionMore or less, Dante would grow and become immune to abilities that have worked on him before, meaning Joie only has one shot with her moves, if that doesn't work, it's over.Evolution
Sparda's SealingDante and Sparda share the power to seal things, the sealing being potent enough to seal away demons and entire complex worlds, demon world having so many non-physical elements, Dante can more or less seal the world Joie exists in considering Dante's sealing is even superior to Sparda who sealed the Demon World.Sealing
Yamatowith one swing of Yamato, Dante can separate power from Heart, and give the power another existence and the heart another, and thus with one swing he can separate a being's elements and give individual existences to the power and heart, effectively taking someone's power away from them permanently.Existence and Being manipulation

Dante obviously has more abilities, but these should be enough for now.

Countering some Abilities

Respectfully, the abilities presented by my opponent, are not in any sense threatening or harmful to Dante.

Joie's passive Intimidation which is essentially large planet lvl TP induced fear hax that can break past even layered resistances.

while this is cute, Dante has withstood the presence of Argosax, a being that is more or less the embodiment of the demon world and his existence was warping the entire dimension of the human realm, warping the minds of men and all beings in DMC2

and Dante battled the passively huge ranged telepath and doesn't even realize it's a demon god, is thoroughly disappointed and wins very easily.

His germs which work on a sub atomic lvl and can easily consume star lvl characters with absurd regeneration and atomic level control over their body.

Ebony and Ivory don't harm Dante and his peers with their subatomic deconstruction, in addition, Joie's worms will turn on him, considering that there is no food luck to prevent that from happening this time around.

so really, it will backfire.

Sealing through Golden Can.

The Yamato can be used to seal away the entire Demon realm

No Caption Provided

and the Yamato has never been able to do anything to Dante sealing wise considering how many times he has gone up against it.

if even things that can seal up the demon world are of no danger to Dante, why would Joie be?

Mind control through Taste Change.

Refer back to the Argosax part.

Putting Joie down for good when he has a few dozen extra lives through Life Orbs in addition to the high level of reactive evolution and regeneration provided by his own Gourmet Cells.

Dante not only can destroy the mind, but can straight up use Sparda's darkness to strip Joie down and seal him up, or just split his powers away from him and then destroy him with one strike, endless possibilities really.

Of course Joie's own raw power and stats that operate at the very limits of this tourney.

same thing for Dante, but due to skill, Joie can never even land a blow on Dante.

Conclusion

so really, Dante will take the lead and simply win by himself, he is better on every level, while Joie might annoy him a little with stats at the beginning of the match, Dante will simply adapt, match him and then strip him down with darkness and then either seal or split Joie (from his power) and then just win, Dante wins quite convincingly every time by himself.

Peace out.

Thank You for Reading

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Really good post. I think i will follow from now on.

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Great post, will follow this now

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Great post, please TAEP.

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lmao

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Good Post

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@professorrespect: Been very lazy. I should be able to get it done by the deadline though.

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@professorrespect: I will try my best to get it up tomorrow but keep an extension ready, just in case.

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#46  Edited By shirso

Before we begin, there's 2 general points about your post I'd like to state.

  1. For a lot of your feats, your description simply doesn't match what I see actually happening in the scans/novel excerpts/videos.
  2. When you present an ability, I'd expect consistent examples of Dante using it in combat against non fodder opponents, as in opponents around his/Joie's general tier.

That being said, this shouldn't take long, let's get right to it...

A Quick Buffet

Stats

as I've displayed already, the construction of the realms is near-instant and effortless, but for sure measure, I will post all the instances where the construction of the realms is shown to be near-instant.

[1]

[2]

[3]

as explained, Demonic energy is inherently tied to power and thus it's basically Saviour's demonic energy taking dimensional shapes and constructing at least three separate celestial bodies, A Star, a Moon and an Earth all done nearly instantly as we can see on-panel. another thing, Saviour's destructive capabilities directly are implied to be similar to his creation capabilities, considering Saviour was considered to be capable of destroying and recreating the world in the same sentence, this goes in consistent with Saviour with less demonic energy than 100% due to the crystals breaking and Nero splitting, the remaining demonic energy can still easily construct dimensions with sun-moon-earth trio.

All those links are showing the same scene, but no matter, can you actually prove here that these realms are being made mid combat and not simply pre created dimensions he is teleporting them into?

AndDante was capable of battling the Saviour for an extended amount of time and besting it, thus besting beings with the casual energy to perform Star-level feats, if you need I can post the calculated results for the Saviour's power, they all come at Star-level.

So you claim but I watched that video and at no point does Dante actually match any of the Saviour's own attacks, the entire fight is basically him jumping around trying to target those very conspicuous purple jewel weak points on the Saviour's body. This isn't just gameplay either as Dante himself implies the Saviour's external durability is too much for him to break through without targeting the weak points in a cutscene:

If the exterior is solid then you gotta take it out from the inside, which implies the Saviour's conventional external durability is too much for Dante, which also seems backed by the gameplay which revolves entirely around targeting specific weak points on the Saviour's body.

thus in a contest of clashing energy attacks, Joie would not come even close to overpowering Dante, or even Saviour for that matter.

Even taking everything at face value I'd say I presented somewhat better baseline AP scaling for Joie however this doesn't matter as Joie with his knife has no issues slicing right through characters stronger than him like Midora, to the extent of completely cutting off the top half of Midora's head:

No Caption Provided

So just being on the same tier won't stop Dante from getting chopped up lethally.

Nightmare, a being with no will, created by the earlier demon kings is the embodiment of ruin and destruction, Nightmare was such a powerful monster that it was sealed away by Mundus because he knew that Nightmare could lay waste to all of Demon World, which was more or less Mundus's kingdom, the nature of the destruction was not stated in the manga but it was stated in another source whichquite literally states that the Demon World would perish if Nightmare is to be releasedand then we've another source detailing the actual method of destruction,the method being the literal lifting and slamming of the demon world and thus destroying it.

Only the last line that states a definite method of destruction is relevant from a quantifiable standpoint and the link doesn't work xD

and even after all of that, sources state that Mundus can only use Nightmare as a weapon, as in it has absolutely no shot against Mundus who once again, Dante has already bested, by this scale I would argue Dante has a level of power where he can lift realms with stars and earth in them, and that's again, at the absolute limit of the tournament.

I mean this sounds fishy as all your own sources pertaining to Nightmare state even Mundus was afraid of its power:

No Caption Provided

Even this databook you linked states and I quote:

However, as a result, it seems that an evil killing machine that even the creator did not anticipate was created, becoming a dangerous existence who could play a role in the stability of the Demon World if its powers were to be released indefinitely.

Which clearly implies Nightmare's power is a real threat to Mundus, to the extent that he can destroy the Demon World itself if allowed to roam free. If anything I'd say it implies Nightmare's superiority in terms of sheer raw power. So I need to see some actual feats of Mundus matching Nightmare in terms of raw power or stats. If you got such feats from Dante himself, even better.

Also

and even after all of that, sources state that Mundus can only use Nightmare as a weapon, as in it has absolutely no shot against Mundus

This is a misrepresentation of things if you are trying to use this to imply Mundus' superiority over Nightmare as far as raw power goes. It's stated Nightmare was created in the first place only as a being with no will of its own:

No Caption Provided

If it had a will of its own that didn't want to listen to Mundus and rampage through the Demon World, then Mundus beat and subdued it then you'd have an argument. But this is like saying a human scales to the power of a non sentient nuke they created.

Simply speaking, Joie is not fast enough to outpace Dante, because as earlier shown Dante's stats function at the absolute pinnacle of the tournament but in addition, his skill makes him more or less untouchable for most present in the tournament, I will display this here, first let's look at Dante vs Mundus in Devil May Cry I, Mundus constructs a universe and flies away, they battle each other while flying through the stars.

Prime example of Point 1 applying...

I don't see that last part anywhere in the video, where they "battle each other while flying through stars"

https://streamable.com/jeli10

They fly into deep space, Mundus does some typical villain talk for a bit and the video ends right before presumably the actual fight begins.

The bigger issue here is this:

Mundus constructs a universe and flies away, they battle each other while flying through the stars.

So this Mundus is universal and apparently this Dante can fight him evenly?? In that case he is a Dante amped well beyond tourney limits and you can't apply his feats to weaker versions within the limits of this tourney.

Dante was crossing 248 Million kilometres in a single second while casually fighting someone else, in numbers that is about 827 times the speed of light,operating yet again near the limits of the tournament for both Dante and Mundus.

This is fine, it proves Dante and Joie are at least matched speed wise, as long as I actually see them fighting while flying through the stars (should be a minor concern) and you address the point of this being a massively amped beyond tourney limits Dante by virtue of fighting Mundus who can create an universe as per your own words.

Skill

in the Devil May Cry II novel, we meet an alternate version of Mundus, one more powerful that has gained oneness with an infinite Void, who attacks and fights Dante,Void Mundus was implied superior to the original version

That scan does say this Mundus is stronger than the one Dante fought before however I don't see anything about oneness with an infinite void like you claim.

No Caption Provided

so now, we've Mundus operating near the limits of the tournament speed-wise with the added benefits of omnipresence throughout an infinite Void, and now Dante is immersed in that void.

I lowkey see nothing about omnipresence at all in your next exerpt lol and yeah no, point 1 applies again, you try to claim Mundus is omnipresent across an infinite Void (first of all, isn't this again blatantly over the limits to begin with, especially as you go on to show Dante easily defeating this same Mundus?) but in your own excerpt Beryl identifies him as having a definite bodily shape and nothing about this "omnipresence" or being "one with the void" is even mentioned?

It was terribly dark for a human, accompanied by echoes that evokes despair to those who hear it. It was no longer a laughter of this world. Beryl heard it. A high-pitched, echoing laughter. So dark it couldn't possibly be human, the mere sound just by hearing it would make one cannot help but feel despair. Up and down, or even left and right are uncertain in this space, she is standing alone. There is no sign of Dante nearby. It can't be. Right now he is, beyond Beryl's gaze---in the palace of the endlessly spreading darkness, where a fierce battle is unfolding. His opponent, is the Demon King himself? It's so large that it surpasses all the demons she has ever dealt with or have seen, a body structure that gives the impression of immeasurable power. It is so strong that she felt like falling down just by looking at it, an intimidating feeling she had no way of resisting. It's appearance, she cannot capture it as an image. Only the coagulate darkness

Credits: Thenamelessone

what does Dante do now? well,go out, stand in the endless Void, dodge all of Mundus's attacks and destroy him.

More misrepresentation, let's assume for a second Mundus does have omnipresence, how does he use this ability to actually attack Dante?

But of course, the Demon King wasn't just going to sit back and let himself be beaten.

His countless arms swung down swords, rained down arrows of demonic power, and fired bolts of lightning, all in an attempt to bury the insolent challenger.

Credits: Thenamelessone

It's not like Mundus used this supposed omnipresence to insta spawn attacks on Dante's body or something, he basically threw swords and fired energy attacks. In other words, just conventional projectile based attacks that need to cover distance to hit Dante and can thus be conventionally dodged.

At best you can argue Dante can successfully avoid a barrage of projectile attacks coming at him from all directions, but that's a fodder skill at this tier, especially as Dante is clearly much faster than Mundus' attacks anyway, implied to be flat out superior to Mundus

Yet now, here was an opponent who had power that could rival his--

Nay, perhaps this opponent is even more powerful than he is.

^Again from your own excerpt

Abilities and Hax

Dante, just like other demons, has a demonic aura and a massive presence potent enough to cause things to explode but in addition, he can impose the primordial instinct of fear on things that should logically be completely unbounded by such a concept, Dante's demonic Aura is so potent that even inanimate objects, which should have no concept of fear, are absolutely terrified at his mere presence.

Tbh this just sounds like a fancy way to say their auras were physically affecting and destroying their surroundings, as the actual effects in your scan are described as "demolishing walls and throwing furniture into the air"

No Caption Provided

But knowing you, you probably genuinely believe that Dante has conceptual fear manipulation or some shit in which case we can all save some time as tourney rules prohibit conceptual attacks.

in this scenario, Joie's body itself may start turning on them, not because Joie is gonna get fear haxxed, but rather because Dante's aura can impose fear on every single one of Joie's organs and cells with nothing to do with her mind.

1) In Toriko, every single cell has a sentient will of their own so that's not happening:

2) I think you missed it, but I showed Bambina doing this exact thing to the 4 Heavenly Kings in my opener

He scared the crap out of them so much every single cell in their bodies had a near death experience. And this was from Bambina just being angry for a moment. Intimidation in the verse has explicit feats of affecting every single cell in the target's body unlike Dante. If anything what you described will happen to Dante.

3) Joie's own Intimidation simply has flat out better feats? I don't see anything even on a planetary scale in what you presented. Joie won't even feel this level of fear hax.

with Ebony and Ivory, if the attacks land, they can downright disintegrate your existence, as in break you down molecule to molecule to the point that there aren't even any atoms left, deconstructed on a sub-atomic level, obviously, this is deconstruction on a sub-atomic level.

Point 1

The bullets themselves are explicitly described as only evaporating the victim, molecule by molecule:

No Caption Provided

This is just plain old vaping bro, as in simply your molecular bonds are being broken, turning you into vapor, not even actual molecular destruction, let alone atomic, let alone sub atomic (lol).

Any mention of atomic anything at all comes here:

No Caption Provided

Which is due to the sunlight hitting Gilver rather than Dante's bullets, I presume this has got something to do with Gilver's demonic nature probably, something irrelevant to Joie. And it's still not atomic destruction, at best atomic bonds are being broken, but the atoms themselves still exist.

True atomic destruction would be something like Midora's Hungry Space that explicitly devours every last atom in a space, turning it into a vacuum:

No Caption Provided

As I posted in my opener, Joie is completely unaffected after Midora did this very thing to the space they were fighting in, she actually has high tier atomic destruction resistance, from a character more powerful than her:

No Caption Provided

Furthermore, Joie having eaten GOD (the main dish of Acacia's full course) also has heightened layer of baseline resistance against molecular deconstruction and energy draining:

No Caption Provided

The rate of Ebony and Ivory's effects also seem rather slow as Gilver still retained his face and body to the extent Dante could even make out his expression for a good while.

Which makes me question how effective they would be on someone of Joie's tier of regen. I already briefly mentioned just how good innate baseline Gourmet Cell regen is from pre Gourmet World Toriko (who is basically a microbe to the likes of Joie), able to instantly regen internal organs and 3rd degree burns of the entire epidermal layer.

Eating Acacia's full course items take this up a notch.

Eating AIR, the salad, greatly heightens the body's natural healing abilities, to the point merely breathing is enough to heal lethal injuries like broken bones and severe burns.

Eating PAIR, the soup, allows you to regenerate any missing body parts, even vital organs like the heart that have been spatially erased and stops conventional regen ( will elaborate more on this later ).

CENTER, the Hors d'Oeuvre, is the ultimate regenerative ingredient, as stated by Midora, scaling it above PAIR and AIR, it can even regenerate damage inflicted by Neo, (such as Midora's hand in that scan) whose bites have extremely potent regeneration negation.

The icing on the cake? The series even explicitly provides a regeneration speed, leaving nothing to speculation. Regeneration is a function of cell division and consumers of NEWS, the meat dish, have cell division at FTL speeds !

Just to recap, Joie has Froese's body which has eaten Acacia's entire full course meal so he benefits from all of this.

So Joie already has layered resistance to high level atomic destruction and deconstruction, from characters stronger than him at that, in addition to extremely high speed (literally FTL) and potent layered regen, Ebony and Ivory which has such a slow effect and is just vaping the target's body anyway is a joke to him.

Sparda's darkness - Dante has shown the power to consume and engulf something in darkness, completely negating their powers and reverting them back to their original powerless states, which seems to be innate to Sparda's power more than anything else, Dante used this against a demon to negate their power and transformation and revert them back into their normal state.

I don't totally get what's going on in those scans, but I have the usual questions:

1) How does this even work? Is this a general powernull (if so some examples?) or specific to demons? In Toriko the power system doesn't rely on some supernatural power source, their cells are just innately stronger and more potent.

2) It seems slow and of very limited range, like that demon literally was embracing Dante before he could use it. Can't Joie destroy it with long ranged attacks or simply outpace it?

3) Point 2, consistent combat feats of Dante using this on non fodder?

4) Joie as I have shown already has high level power/energy draining resistance from eating GOD. Draining that would work on other star lvl beings.

With Gilgamesh, Dante has the power to manipulate the composition of organic matter to turn them into metals nearly instantly, he absorbs them and then uses their essence to construct steel.

This would require him touching Joie with this, which leaves Dante himself open to attack, and may not even be possible for reasons I will discuss later. In any case consumers of Acacia's full course meal progressively develop the ability to transform their physiology into that of their Gourmet Demon's and back at will, so basic transmutation shouldn't be a problem. The regen helps too.

Point 2 also applies here, this seems like one of those plethora of abilities that video game characters have that they rarely actually use. Can I see some consistent feats of Dante using this against relevant opponents?

Analytical Prediction - Dante is capable of combating Chen on equal footing via abusing his analytical prediction and ability to predict Chen's moves, his analytical prediction more or less works on the same level as Chen's precognition, which is something that goes beyond time itself and can see all futures instantly, more or less a buffed version of Almighty from a recognition standpoint, it goes volumes to speak about Dante's sheer intelligence to have analytical prediction of that level.

Both Point 1 and Point 2

I see some clairvoyance statements for Chen in what you posted, sure, but nothing for Dante himself. Unless you are trying to imply Dante has the same level of precog by default because he fought Chen??? Which is........not how it works, for obvious reasons. Can I see some feats for Dante himself using this level of precog consistently in other fights?

And even for Chen himself, for starters, it seems he needs to have access to some sort of statue to actually see the future and secondly even the future sight itself doesn't seem all that efficient, it's basically images without context assaulting his mind as per your own scan:

No Caption Provided

Which makes me question their combat viability.

In any case, I have already posted Joie keeping up with a precog user in Starjun . To elaborate a bit on Starjun's Gourmet Clairvoyance, light takes a finite time to reach our eyes from any target so technically we are always looking at a vision of the past. Starjun's 3rd eye eliminates this lag entirely, even for targets hundreds of millions of light years away.

Anything Joie will think of doing, Dante will predict and counter instinctively.

Joie been there, done that.

Mind and Memory Destruction - Every Hit from Dante can destroy One's Mind and Memory, destroying the very thoughts themselves and thus every hit won't just be on the basic spiritual and physical level, it would be on mental and memory level as well, and thus would completely fuck up his opponent without significant mental damage counters showings.

Can you elaborate a bit more on this, it seems Mundus there is losing his consciousness simply because his body has been destroyed anyway.

Losing most of his demonic powers, his body of darkness is crumbling.

The finishing blade that severs one's consciousness even when his body was shattered into pieces, he couldn't reach an understanding.

Credits: Thenamelessone

Mundus' body was already destroyed so it obviously makes sense why he'd be losing consciousness too, doesn't necessarily have to be some hax effect of Dante's attacks.

In any case, feats of this working on someone with Joie's level of mental resistances? I have yet to see anything matching Bambina passively fear flexing the entire Toriko planet by merely showing his true form, a very large planet filled with powerful beasts and humans that have layered mental resistances.

  • Demonic Adaptations - Dante has the power to evolve and go past hax, as he did to weapons that are anti-devil and absorb demonic energy which had previously affected him.

Point 1, I will be honest I see Dante feeling the bullets' effects in scan 1 but I see nothing anywhere stating he adapted to them?

This also doesn't give Dante any special advantage as reactive evolution is a baseline ability for Gourmet Cells too, and it has feats against a variety of stuff, from extreme gravity to extreme temperatures, etc.

What does this mean? if an ability Joie has doesn't one-shot Dante, then it will simply be adapted to, countered and beaten.

You simply haven't provided the feats to make this argument.

Innately, beings of Sparda are capable of sealing demons and things away,Dante's sealing is even more potent than Sparda's, now why does this matter? because this means Dante's sealing is greater than Sparda's entirely, which means that Dante can downright be scaled to Sparda sealing away entire planes of existence.

I can't access that link but Point 2 in full swing here.

1) We don't have a timeframe for Sparda's sealing of the Demon Realm

2) How combat applicable is it even? For all we know doing this completely drains out Sparda for example.

3) How consistently has Dante himself even used it in combat against non fodder opponents?

The Yamato - now the craziest one of them all, Yamato, The prized possession of Sparda and the most powerful weapon in the setting, one of its main powers is to literally manipulate existence and split it into two, giving power its own form and being, separating power from heart aka the individual, and thus leaving one powerless, because the power has been transformed into a new existence.

This may have something to do specifically with people who have a demonic side, as it says it separates "man from demon" rather than a general power null, I will let you elaborate.

Joie also has high level of resistance to power draining by virtue of eating GOD which resists the draining effects of Area 0 as I showed before, draining that would work on 8 Kings and comparable star lvl beings who have not consumed GOD.

However assuming it works as advertised, a very similar concept exists in Toriko through the Gourmet Demons, which are also demons inhabiting a host body. So at worst it might separate out the Gourmet Demon from Joie's body but that doesn't matter because this process already exists in Toriko, and restoration to the original state is literally as easy as the host eating the manifested demon !

This manifested Gourmet Demon will be stupidly strong and can fight on its own so really you'd be making things worse for yourself. This is just a terrible ability against Toriko verse.

The Cooking Commences

Here I will address Dante's own defenses against Joie's abilities.

while this is cute, Dante has withstood the presence of Argosax, a being that is more or less the embodiment of the demon world and his existence was warping the entire dimension of the human realm, warping the minds of men and all beings in DMC2

Where is it stated the entire human realm which I presume you are referring to earth, is warped? And this seems more like some sort of reality warping based on the description of "stop the hands of time between seconds, reality is not what it seems" rather than actual TP.

It's also pretty fodder if apparently Beryl who is described as a human can resist it:

No Caption Provided

I will leave you to elaborate if Beryl has any impressive mental resistance of her own but it also says she is not the first human to enter the Underworld and resist its influence so it's a pretty bad look if even normal humans are withstanding this.

And it's also lacking in lethality compared to Toriko verse Intimidation which outright kills the target through extreme fear instantly rather than gradually driving them to insanity which is how this is described:

No Caption Provided

It would still be fodder to Joie's level anyway as it's large planetary in scale and also affecting characters and beasts with actual layered resistance to such effects. To recap:

The Monkey King simply revealing his true form, not even seriously wanting to fight (he is in fact literally just trying to play with Toriko and co there), causes a planet wide panic attack. This is quite a large planet but the more impressive thing is he affected even Gourmet World beasts who already have layered resistance to Intimidation. As I showed previously Toriko when first entering the Gourmet World can kill beasts around lvl 500-600 with Intimidation alone but random apes in the Monkey King's continent are way beyond that on whom that level of Intimidation naturally has 0 effect and there are even far stronger beasts in Gourmet World, even above lvl 4000.

So this is large planet lvl TP on sheer scale alone, but even more impressive as it worked on probably hundreds of thousands of powerful Gourmet World beasts with layered resistance of their own.

I also want to emphasize here that Intimidation is a most basic ability in the verse, it has been present literally from Chapter 1:

Goes without saying, this had absolutely no effect on the Garara Gator, who is essentially the very first "villain" of the series, the Toriko equivalent of Mizuki in Naruto pretty much. So we got layered resistance against fear hax ever since Chapter 1. It keeps stacking from there and a 8 King not even seriously trying to fight passively fear flexed a large planet worth of countless beasts alone that outscale that Garara Gator in this regard astronomically, not to mention the dozens of powerful human characters as well.

The way I see it, Joie's Intimidation by feats completely blows Dante's resistance out of the water in everything, be it scale (affecting the entire population of a much larger planet instantly), range (even the Human World in Toriko is well over 65,000 km) or potency as in being able to affect characters with high levels of mental resistances.

Ebony and Ivory don't harm Dante and his peers with their subatomic deconstruction, in addition, Joie's worms will turn on him, considering that there is no food luck to prevent that from happening this time around.

All this proves is that Ebony and Ivory don't work on characters of Dante's own tier, which Joie is, so thanks for proving further why they are a non factor here ig. And they are not subatomic destruction. Joie's germs on the other hand have worked on characters his own tier (Starjun) as well as stronger characters (Midora).

I have already cleared with the host that Joie is allowed to use his germs in spite of not having access to Gourmet Luck.

No Caption Provided

and the Yamato has never been able to do anything to Dante sealing wise considering how many times he has gone up against it.

"separate our world from the demons" alludes more to severing dimensional connections than sealing. Also no timeframe. What actual feats does Dante have of escaping sealing, sealing that can be used to contain the likes of Midora?

Refer back to the Argosax part.

Not relevant here unfortunately. As the mind controlling bacteria is a biological attack rather than conventional TP, so will need different resistances. Being a great telepath doesn't save you from toxins and diseases and vice versa.

Dante not only can destroy the mind, but can straight up use Sparda's darkness to strip Joie down and seal him up, or just split his powers away from him and then destroy him with one strike, endless possibilities really.

Addressed, Joie has more than enough power draining and mental resistances to handle all this even taken at face value.

More on Back Channels

I briefly alluded to additional abilities bestowed by Back Channels such as space-time manipulation and undetectability in my opener, I want to elaborate a bit more here.

Back Channels are a pocket of space-time, spatio-temporally out of sync with conventional reality that you get the ability to create and manipulate on eating NEWS, Acacia's meat dish.

This gives you potent undetectability, as you are spatio-temporally out of sync with the dimension that others occupy, this is to the extent of being completely undetectable to the the likes of Toriko, Coco, Zebra and Sunny who have their smell, sight, hearing and touch senses developed to an absurd degree:

Only consumers of Acacia's soup PAIR are able to sense them.

NEWS consumers also get the ability to manipulate and interact with Back Channels as I said, including physically cutting apart Back Channels (which again is a completely separate pocket of space-time):

No Caption Provided

The nasty aspect of this is spatial gouging, it's possible to literally gouge away space, leaving a void that nothing can occupy, which can stop most conventional regen:

So to recap:

  1. The ability to sense, manipulate, create and interact with Back Channels is derived from consuming certain items of Acacia's full course.
  2. Wrapping yourself in a Back Channel like Joie makes you spatio-temporally out of sync with the real world, providing basically dimensional intangibility as well as completely undetectable to any conventional sensory powers.
  3. Importantly this doesn't stop the Back Channel user themselves from interacting with the real world as we saw with Starjun among other examples. This is basically Limbo from Naruto on crack.
  4. You also get the ability to slice through separate pockets of space-time itself, essentially cutting through dimensions, as well as gouging out space, which can be used to stop regen.

In Summary

I will defer a more detailed recap of the debate for the 3rd and final post probably but you really need to elaborate more on certain abilities, especially present consistent combat feats of Dante using them.

For now, my opinion is Dante at best can possibly be scaled to Joie's stat tier if you address the issues I brought up, but he is dead in the water in terms of abilities. Joie has far superior resistances backed by solid showings against all of Dante's arsenal and clearly outmatches him substantially in important areas like TP or biological attacks such as the germs, Dante having no real answer yet for either of the main ones, the mind controlling bacteria or the carnivorous fungi.

I don't see any real "X-factors" that can supersede the germs, Joie's dozens of extra lives in addition to his already absurd regen, his level of Intimidation, something that Dante will have to constantly and passively resist throughout the fight btw, sealing, as well as the Back Channels. There's just too much for Dante to handle while he is barely a match for Joie even in the fundamentals of stats, AP and resistances.

Dante gets cooked.

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epic

Really good post. I think i will follow from now on.

Great post, will follow this now

idk if you guys meant "follow" as being tagged for posts made but I'll do it anyway just in case.

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all I wish to say about your post is, you seem to do three things a lot.

  1. Misconstrue my sentence in a manner that almost makes it feel intentional so that I've to explain the same thing twice in a row, something I'm not a fan of doing.
  2. represent a faulty counter to an ability that you are very clearly and unquestionably struggling to comprehend the mechanics of.
  3. Consistent attempt to get me disqualified by lowly tactics like somehow equating Void Mundus's existential status to Dante? which is entirely a dishonest thing to do, just a ploy to make my Dante look shady.

with those out of the way, let's go to the actual debate, but first I will want to address the two "points" you made.

For a lot of your feats, your description simply doesn't match what I see actually happening in the scans/novel excerpts/videos.

this is the result of faltering comprehension and you not understanding things well because most of my sources are complex and long, happens, I'm gonna do my best to recontextualize them in a manner where they don't go over your head.

When you present an ability, I'd expect consistent examples of Dante using it in combat against non-fodder opponents, as in opponents around his/Joie's general tier.

Frankly, you've to change your expectations, Game characters have few break-out fights, and Dante is fighting people with powers that would be ridiculous for any other combatant in the tournament to fight, you cannot blame him for not using organic transmutation against the Despair Embodied, Video game characters simply have higher number and versatility of abilities than manga ones, so they don't have to rely on three abilities every match.

Part I - The Saviour, The Nightmare and The Demon Emperor

Seems like you've tried your best to undermine Dante's attack potency, sadly you seem to be deeply hindered by a rather clear lack of knowledge on the Devil May Cry franchise, to counter these one by one.

All those links are showing the same scene, but no matter, can you actually prove here that these realms are being made mid combat and not simply pre created dimensions he is teleporting them into?

that's very simple, these realms are recreations of the real world

No Caption Provided

nowhere in the lore is it ever noted that such recreations are pre-existing, even though in recent years Devil May Cry has gone in-depth on its cosmology via countless sources, we've never been alluded to the possible existence of such realms, and the fact they seem to only exist for the Singular purpose of taking down the Saviour's opponents make it clear they're constructs of the Saviour's doing.

the Saviour lacks a clear-cut will and is made to serve, so why would it have pre-existing realms constructed?

narratively your counter does not begin to make sense, considering if they were truly pre-existing independent realms they would not entirely be inside the Saviour, and in addition due to the seal that Sparda has put on the demon world and thus by extension, demons, crossing worlds have become impossible for demons, or well, the vast majority of them, so how would Saviour magically bypass something that's sort of a restriction on all Demons?

So you claim but I watched that video and at no point does Dante actually match any of the Saviour's own attacks, the entire fight is basically him jumping around trying to target those very conspicuous purple jewel weak points on the Saviour's body. This isn't just gameplay either as Dante himself implies the Saviour's external durability is too much for him to break through without targeting the weak points in a cutscene:

If the exterior is solid then you gotta take it out from the inside, which implies the Saviour's conventional external durability is too much for Dante, which also seems backed by the gameplay which revolves entirely around targeting specific weak points on the Saviour's body..

there is a cause for that, the reason Dante is fighting that way isn't because the Saviour is too powerful for him or something, it's because the Saviour has absorbed Nero, his nephew into itself.

No Caption Provided

This means that Dante cannot go all out, and this shows when Dante doesn't use the sure-kill of Yamato, barely uses his other techniques, and doesn't even use devil trigger and that is why Dante is fighting the way he is, his goal is to weaken the saviour to release Nero, not just obliterate it and Yes, Dante is capable of combatting him head on, he shows this in the fight.

at the end of the day, Saviour battles a base, holding back Dante, is unable to do anything as Dante destroys all his crystals kills it, and blocks its attacks, every time saviour hits an attack it does next to nothing for a reason, it's exceedingly clear who is superior.

Even taking everything at face value I'd say I presented somewhat better baseline AP scaling for Joie however this doesn't matter as Joie with his knife has no issues slicing right through characters stronger than him like Midora, to the extent of completely cutting off the top half of Midora's head:

So just being on the same tier won't stop Dante from getting chopped up lethally.

utterly irrelevant, not only would Dante straight up not get touched, but this is the man who stood at the centre of an infinite void and dodged attacks from a being who was not only omnipresent, one with the void but was also operating reaction and combatively at the very upper limits of the tournament.

no idea why you think a knife is gonna touch him, if Void Mundus doesn't touch him, Joie would not, period.

Only the last line that states a definite method of destruction is relevant from a quantifiable standpoint and the link doesn't work xD.

I mean this sounds fishy as all your own sources pertaining to Nightmare state even Mundus was afraid of its power:

Even this databook you linked states and I quote:

However, as a result, it seems that an evil killing machine that even the creator did not anticipate was created, becoming a dangerous existence who could play a role in the stability of the Demon World if its powers were to be released indefinitely.

Which clearly implies Nightmare's power is a real threat to Mundus, to the extent that he can destroy the Demon World itself if allowed to roam free. If anything I'd say it implies Nightmare's superiority in terms of sheer raw power. So I need to see some actual feats of Mundus matching Nightmare in terms of raw power or stats. If you got such feats from Dante himself, even better.

Also

first of all, Dante beat Nightmare in V's familiar and after that, it was stated that even if Dante had any trouble with Nightmare, Vergil would downright streamroll him.

No Caption Provided

the gap between Dante/Vergil and Nightmare is absolutely massive according to Griffon, DMC5 and 1 Nightmare are more or less the same with the exception of form but there is no real power difference.

now to address the whole misconception of Mundus, the demon emperor, being scared of nightmare? As my own scan shows, the fear isn't of personal harm but harm to his kingdom and world, the demon realm.

No Caption Provided

Nightmare is representative of a threat to the demon realm, that is it, that is why Mundus sealed it, there is no evidence that nightmare can threaten Mundus on a personal level, to the contrary Mundus uses nightmare as a boxing glove and a weapon sometimes, just showing how much the difference is and how Nightmare doesn't make any difference to Mundus's strength, otherwise, he would've of course, used it against Dante.

here is a quote that perfectly summarizes the whole situation

The demon king is said to have created a powerful weapon that he even feared would destroy his own kingdom, and sealed his power to stop it. With his immense great power, he could effortlessly lift the entire structure of the underworld or destroy it. Only a being comparable to her creator could surpass his strength. A weapon would be a nightmare for any entity, living or dead.

As said, he feared for his kingdom aka the Underworld/Demonworld, he did not fear for himself, and a being that surpasses Mundus or is comparable would surpass Nightmare, in one swift blow that confirms that Mundus is > Nightmare and that Nightmare isn't comparable to Mundus

this goes in with the fact that Mundus is the creator of Nightmare and thus the source of its power

It is a biological weapon of the Demon World that the Demon Emperor completed with all his heart and soul, its thought circuits and ability are all created solely for the purpose of killing an adversary.

However, as a result, it seems that an evil killing machine that even the creator did not anticipate was created, becoming a dangerous existence that could threaten the stability of the Demon World if its powers were to be released indefinitely.

So unless you think Mundus somehow made something stronger than him, Nightmare isn't stronger than Mundus, other sources confirm this anyway.

This is a misrepresentation of things if you are trying to use this to imply Mundus' superiority over Nightmare as far as raw power goes. It's stated Nightmare was created in the first place only as a being with no will of its own:

If it had a will of its own that didn't want to listen to Mundus and rampage through the Demon World, then Mundus beat and subdued it then you'd have an argument. But this is like saying a human scales to the power of a non sentient nuke they created.

Thankfully, Mundus isn't a Nuclear Engineer and doesn't make controllable things like that, the fact that it needed to be sealed shows that it cannot be controlled in a vacuum, yet for Mundus? it's just the equivalent of a Boxing glove

No Caption Provided

Initially, the only explanation for this design was that it was a slime-shaped Enemy that would emerge in a hard shell when the light was directed at it. However, during the production stage, Dante was able to create a series of attacks worthy of the name "Nightmare", such as swallowing Dante and sending him flying into a nightmare space or firing freezing lasers.

Dante's weapon, the "Beta" is the name of his "Nightmare" weapon, has a "3" for "prototype", which is a huge "Nightmare". This is the "a" in its finished form. Mundus might wear this nightmare on his arm

Mundus's boxing glove that doesn't even allow him to beat his equals in the narrative like argosax is not something that is superior to Mundus

Prime example of Point 1 applying...

I don't see that last part anywhere in the video, where they "battle each other while flying through stars"

https://streamable.com/jeli10

They fly into deep space, Mundus does some typical villain talk for a bit and the video ends right before presumably the actual fight begins.

Okay, here is them landing attacks, magical and physical while moving through space at top speed, just seconds before they land on the rocky planet that was used for the calculation.

there you go, them flying through space as you asked me to show, and combating, launching physical blows and magical ones, just one loading screen before landing on the planet.

This is fine, it proves Dante and Joie for are at least matched speed wise, as long as I actually see them fighting while flying through the stars (should be a minor concern) and you address the point of this being a massively amped beyond tourney limits Dante by virtue of fighting Mundus who can create an universe as per your own words.

The Mundus universe thing is contested, thus not represented, And your "beam reached another nebula" when put in numbers, would be far greater than the tournament's speed limits as well, so? it's easy to force someone into making an argument they didn't make and then making it sound like they're going over the limits, you're no exception

Part II - Mundus and The Void

That scan does say this Mundus is stronger than the one Dante fought before however I don't see anything about oneness with an infinite void like you claim.

I lowkey see nothing about omnipresence at all in your next exerpt lol and yeah no, point 1 applies again, you try to claim Mundus is omnipresent across an infinite Void (first of all, isn't this again blatantly over the limits to begin with, especially as you go on to show Dante easily defeating this same Mundus?) but in your own excerpt Beryl identifies him as having a definite bodily shape and nothing about this "omnipresence" or being "one with the void" is even mentioned?

No Caption Provided

I genuinely have zero conception of what exactly you tried to cook here, I mean, are you trying to go out and argue that Void Mundus is not in oneness with the Void? because if you are...well, Interesting, sadly that's not true, Void Mundus is indeed in complete oneness with the Void

No Caption Provided

The Void = Mundus

Mundus = The Void

now from the text you tried to interpret, I will show you the correct interpretation, afterall, someone has to, the text isn't giving Mundus size and bodily features, it's stated that Mundus is the coagulating darkness that fills the Void.

Right now he is, beyond Beryl's gaze---in the palace of the endlessly spreading darkness, where a fierce battle is unfolding. His opponent, is the Demon King himself? It's so large that it surpasses all the demons she has ever dealt with or have seen, a body structure that gives the impression of immeasurable power. It is so strong that she felt like falling down just by looking at it, an intimidating feeling she had no way of resisting. It's appearance, she cannot capture it as an image. Only the coagulate darkness

Beryl gazes Mundus, see how the pronouns used for Mundus's structure in this scene change from him to it? why is that? because Beryl is failing to comprehend what she is witnessing, her comprehension is failing

It is so strong that she felt like falling down just by looking at it, an intimidating feeling she had no way of resisting

from the attempt at comprehension of Void Mundus, she felt like being knocked down, a bodily structure as you put it would be something that a human eyeball can comprehend in an image, however, Beryl could not comprehend Void Mundus in an image.

It's appearance, she cannot capture it as an image.

and how is Mundus comprehended by Beryl? as the Coagulate darkness,

Only the coagulate darkness

The Endlessly spreading Darkness of the Void where the battle is taking place

Right now he is, beyond Beryl's gaze---in the palace of the endlessly spreading darkness

and surprise surprise, when to kill Void Mundus, what did Dante do? cut through the darkness-which-is-the-Void

The great sword rebellion growled, slashing through the darkness, penetrating the body of the Demon King who stands in his way.

More or less, Mundus is comprehended as the darkness of the Pitch Black Void, he is the Void, and he is infinitely spreading, and Dante cuts through the Void and cuts him in half, destroying him on every level, that is the feat.

More misrepresentation, let's assume for a second Mundus does have omnipresence, how does he use this ability to actually attack Dante?

It's not like Mundus used this supposed omnipresence to insta spawn attacks on Dante's body or something, he basically threw swords and fired energy attacks. In other words, just conventional projectile based attacks that need to cover distance to hit Dante and can thus be conventionally dodged.

Terrible interpretation, If it was just conventional projectiles it wouldn't be stated that it was done via a countless number of arms, because countless would cover a large portion of the void, which I doubt Dante evaded the area of effectiveness of given the lack of any such implication in the text, meaning he must've been in the area of effectiveness when the attacks were launched.

in logical extension, Mundus is fighting for his life, against someone who is perhaps more powerful than Mundus himself, the logical conclusion is that he could attack in every way possible.

and that means attacks from every distance, from every direction and attacks in the same space of Mundus's body that Dante happens to be occupying.

and thus, this is the closest to "dodging omnipresence" a fictional character can come to, and Dante did it against someone he was not necessarily faster than by a relevant margin.

At best you can argue Dante can successfully avoid a barrage of projectile attacks coming at him from all directions, but that's a fodder skill at this tier, especially as Dante is clearly much faster than Mundus' attacks anyway, implied to be flat out superior to Mundus

^Again from your own excerpt

...

that is because Dante landed some fatal blows on Mundus...which led him to the realisation that Dante is perhaps more powerful than himself

As he said that, Dante's footwork was light and he ran through the empty space, avoiding most of the attacks.

Furthermore, his counterattacks were painfully delivered upon the Demon King, inflicting fatal wounds.

The Demon King, Mundus, could not understand this.

He was supposed to be an absolute being, an eternal ruler free from even the flow of time, and to rule over all things in creation.

Yet now, here was an opponent who had power that could rival his--

Nay, perhaps this opponent is even more powerful than he is.

Dante and Mundus were described to be having a fierce battle, we already know Dante was damaging him severely and proceeded to end him with mental destruction, if he was much faster then the battle wouldn't be fierce at all.

Right now he is, beyond Beryl's gaze---in the palace of the endlessly spreading darkness, where a fierce battle is unfolding.

the much faster narrative is a man-made construct and doesn't make sense with the actual text anyway.

Part III - Demonic Magic

1. Demonic Aura

Tbh this just sounds like a fancy way to say their auras were physically affecting and destroying their surroundings, as the actual effects in your scan are described as "demolishing walls and throwing furniture into the air"

Uhm, the Text makes it exceedingly clear what is happening and what is going on, why exactly do you think they specifically say the idea of absolute fear is being imposed upon things that should, logically, not possess this quality.

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it's very clear what is happening.

But knowing you, you probably genuinely believe that Dante has conceptual fear manipulation or some shit in which case we can all save some time as tourney rules prohibit conceptual attacks.

Another random attempt to get me disqualified, thankfully I've not said at any point that it is conceptual, I simply think this is true fear manipulation, in comparison to intimidation which you're representing as Telepathy.

1) In Toriko, every single cell has a sentient will of their own so that's not happening:

as your own scan shows us

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All Cells are of personal consent and aren't subsidiary to the brain itself, so why would the resistances of the brain scale to individual cells?

this is completely a doing of your own, why exactly do you think we should assume these cells are as resistant to external fear Manipulation as the overall being itself? and how exactly does your argument counter the overall sentiment of my argument which was to express the fact of the non-living components of Joie.

like the atoms the cells are made of, feeling absolute fear, may straight up explode.

He scared the crap out of them so much every single cell in their bodies had a near death experience. And this was from Bambina just being angry for a moment. Intimidation in the verse has explicit feats of affecting every single cell in the target's body unlike Dante. If anything what you described will happen to Dante.

dumb argument, absolute fear, as defined, is absolute and if it is limited to only the brain or a specific size of something, then it's not absolute at all, and thus the description would be incorrect, in addition cellular telepathy is not a thing, telepathy is what you're representing intimidation as, after all.

3) Joie's own Intimidation simply has flat out better feats? I don't see anything even on a planetary scale in what you presented. Joie won't even feel this level of fear hax.

I already have displayed telepathy feats that frankly dick on Toriko verse, so I simply don't need to go out and re-examine everything, you're representing Intimidating as Telepathy more than Fear Manipulation because you know if you represented it as the latter I would simply ask you to prove it affects people more powerful than the castor, which 99% of fear manipulation does not, so now that you're representing it as Telepathy, I've Telepathic resistance good enough to easily negate it

2. Ebony and Ivory

Point 1

The bullets themselves are explicitly described as only evaporating the victim, molecule by molecule:

This is just plain old vaping bro, as in simply your molecular bonds are being broken, turning you into vapor, not even actual molecular destruction, let alone atomic, let alone sub atomic (lol).

Any mention of atomic anything at all comes here:

Which is due to the sunlight hitting Gilver rather than Dante's bullets, I presume this has got something to do with Gilver's demonic nature probably, something irrelevant to Joie. And it's still not atomic destruction, at best atomic bonds are being broken, but the atoms themselves still exist.

as always, extremely incorrect interpretation of the scene, First of all, until you're arguing something goofy like radiation pressure, the feat started here when his face evaporated

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and soon, his atoms faded away, nothing remained of him.

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the fact that in a quick timespan, the only thing that remained of Gilver was his sword, while the author is clearly delving into things such as atoms and molecules, it's very obvious what that means.

his atoms were destroyed

if they were somehow not, then there would be zero logic behind the statement that the only thing remaining was the blade, considering the author was happily discussing molecules and atoms in the scene, it's likely Gilver was reduced to a level so small that it was scientifically impossible to term, or a level like Quark.

if anything, it's better than Midora's Hungry Space

True atomic destruction would be something like Midora's Hungry Space that explicitly devours every last atom in a space, turning it into a vacuum:

As I posted in my opener, Joie is completely unaffected after Midora did this very thing to the space they were fighting in, she actually has high-tier atomic destruction resistance, from a character more powerful than her:

Furthermore, Joie having eaten GOD (the main dish of Acacia's full course) also has heightened layer of baseline resistance against molecular deconstruction and energy draining:

The Scan you posted just states that the atoms are being devoured

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while my arguments are that the atoms are being broken down to a level where they frankly stop existing and are material at a level where the scientific terminology of atoms doesn't truly apply to them at all, like Quarks.

Frankly speaking, considering the writer's knowledge of atoms would likely come in with the knowledge of the three components of atoms.

we're talking about a level of deconstruction where the deconstructed material has been reduced to a level below the three independent components of the atoms, so I'm talking about going tens of thousands of times below atomic deconstruction.

frankly speaking, when Ebony and Ivory are compared to Hungry Space, Ebony and Ivory is overwhelmingly superior.

The rate of Ebony and Ivory's effects also seem rather slow as Gilver still retained his face and body to the extent Dante could even make out his expression for a good while.

Gilver seems to initially be resisting the ability and thus not immediately deconstruction, however, that doesn't matter, as when he stopped resisting he went from having a face to having no atoms in a span of three lines

....

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Which makes me question how effective they would be on someone of Joie's tier of regen. I already briefly mentioned just how good innate baseline Gourmet Cell regen is from pre Gourmet World Toriko (who is basically a microbe to the likes of Joie), able to instantly regen internal organs and 3rd degree burns of the entire epidermal layer.

Eating Acacia's full course items take this up a notch.

Eating AIR, the salad, greatly heightens the body's natural healing abilities, to the point merely breathing is enough to heal lethal injuries like broken bones and severe burns.

Eating PAIR, the soup, allows you to regenerate any missing body parts, even vital organs like the heart that have been spatially erased and stops conventional regen ( will elaborate more on this later ).

CENTER, the Hors d'Oeuvre, is the ultimate regenerative ingredient, as stated by Midora, scaling it above PAIR and AIR, it can even regenerate damage inflicted by Neo, (such as Midora's hand in that scan) whose bites have extremely potent regeneration negation.

The icing on the cake? The series even explicitly provides a regeneration speed, leaving nothing to speculation. Regeneration is a function of cell division and consumers of NEWS, the meat dish, have cell division at FTL speeds !

Just to recap, Joie has Froese's body which has eaten Acacia's entire full course meal so he benefits from all of this.

All these abilities for Dante to negate with a singular sword slash by separating all of them and giving them all their own existence?

all that regeneration for me to simply cut through the consciousness of Joie and end her at the spot?

as shown, your regeneration is irrelevant to literally any sword swing from Dante that truly lands upon Joie, but you've bore me the duty to make it clear that Ebony and Ivory itself would bypass this regeneration rather than the other basic components of Dante's arsenal, so that is how it will be then

don't worry, I won't cheat by revealing all my cards, I will just tap into something for a bit, Demonic Physiology, as the name suggests, is the physiology of a demon, the first testament - Form is a lie, the truth is name, Form is not the structure of a demon's existence and certainly not the very conceptual basis of it, the conceptual basis is Name but today we're not talking about names, just keep in mind that the form of a demon is ever-changing and un-absolute

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when a Demon's form is destroyed, the demon does not cease, it simply reforms in the form of a Soul Eater, a demon's rage allows it to take another form

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Frankly, a demon in no sense ceases after the destruction of their form, some turn into Devil Arms, and from that spiritual state, revert to their physical forms, thus returning to existence.

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By all means, a demon should never not become a soul eater in death, or come back via becoming a devil arm, the loss of form is the equivalent to the loss of a lie to demons as the form is nowhere near to the true essence that is name, and with remnants of their minds (rage), soul or life they can return back to existence, This is the Bottom Rung of Demon Physiology to be Discussed.

however, Gilver, the creation of the Demon Emperor Mundus, the prototype of Neo Angelo, was unable to return from one hit of Ebony and Ivory, and what does that logically mean? Ebony and Ivory work on a level where the bottom rung of Demonic Physiology is Bypassed.

meaning no soul eater resurrection, no devil arms, no returning from Soul, Life or such components, meaning Ebony and Ivory's deconstruction targets thoughts, Mind, Soul and Life.

Best of Luck regenerating from that while being in the tournament limits.

So Joie already has layered resistance to high level atomic destruction and deconstruction, from characters stronger than him at that, in addition to extremely high speed (literally FTL) and potent layered regen, Ebony and Ivory which has such a slow effect and is just vaping the target's body anyway is a joke to him.

yeah nah, after the above, no level of regeneration physical is saving you, and Hungry Space's Deconstruction is even more of a Joke to Ebony and Ivory's deconstruction than it was before, before it was just the 10⁶ of difference, now the difference is existential.

3. Sparda's Darkness

I don't totally get what's going on in those scans

This is indeed true for the vast majority of the arguments you've made so far.

1) How does this even work? Is this a general powernull (if so some examples?) or specific to demons? In Toriko the power system doesn't rely on some supernatural power source, their cells are just innately stronger and more potent.

I don't think that's what Dante does.

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I will say what is truly going on here is that Dante's darkness consumed the demon and reverted it back to it's original form, a general application of power negation, transformation negation and negation of all of one's stats.

2) It seems slow and of very limited range, like that demon literally was embracing Dante before he could use it.

....

it got so close because Dante is clearly not taking the Demon seriously and because the Demon has the form of his mother and he is talking to it casually

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Ignore the Demon not understanding how human relations work, Dante seemed to have spawned the darkness directly upon the demon, I don't think there is really a way to dodge this move no.

Can't Joie destroy it with long ranged attacks or simply outpace it?

I dunno, panels of Joie destroying darkness made by someone with more power than her?

3) Point 2, consistent combat feats of Dante using this on non fodder?

Refer to what I said about Point 2.

4) Joie as I have shown already has high level power/energy draining resistance from eating GOD. Draining that would work on other star lvl beings.

as if energy draining has anything to do with power I'm representing this as.

4. Gilgamesh

This would require him touching Joie with this, which leaves Dante himself open to attack, and may not even be possible for reasons I will discuss later. In any case consumers of Acacia's full course meal progressively develop the ability to transform their physiology into that of their Gourmet Demon's and back at will, so basic transmutation shouldn't be a problem. The regen helps too.

Oh Yeah, this won't work, because the scans you showed work under the assumption that the characters would retain a sense of self and a form of consciousness to consciously use a power to revert back.

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but the point of Gilgamesh seems to be to revert Organic things back to inorganic forms, and thus, the steel that would be Joie's head when hit by Gilgamesh would downright not have a consciousness, and thus there would be no reverting back.

Point 2 also applies here, this seems like one of those plethora of abilities that video game characters have that they rarely actually use. Can I see some consistent feats of Dante using this against relevant opponents?

refer to what I said about point 2 earlier, and in addition this is a one-game gear that he possessed

5. Analytical Prediction

I see some clairvoyance statements for Chen in what you posted, sure, but nothing for Dante himself. Unless you are trying to imply Dante has the same level of precog by default because he fought Chen??? Which is........not how it works, for obvious reasons. Can I see some feats for Dante himself using this level of precog consistently in other fights?

The Beasthead precognition, is what I'm about to call it from now on because I don't really care for Chen and Beastheads are the source of the power anyway, is something that Dante on panel matched with his skilled analytical prediction.

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"Ducas, you wouldn't believe me if I told you my name...hehe...think for yourself, son of Sparda!!"

A strong tension runs between the two of them.

They were reading each other's futures ahead of time, unable to move around carelessly.

Dante's facial expression still had some composure there, he does not easily make a move, which means Ducas now must have a considerable amount of power

In contrast Ducas was overflowing with confidence, his forehead was slightly sweaty, can be seen struggling with this reading game.

"Move it, Dante!"

here he on panel matches the Beasthead's precognition, they're basically at a stalemate and unable to outdo each other entirely because their precognitions and the future sites are in an equal clash, so Yes, Dante does match Beasthead's precognition perfectly.

Dante consistently uses his analytical prediction to counter people faster than him and even counter teleporters.

And even for Chen himself, for starters, it seems he needs to have access to some sort of statue to actually see the future and secondly even the future sight itself doesn't seem all that efficient, it's basically images without context assaulting his mind as per your own scan:

Which makes me question their combat viability.

sadly, the above is a clear-cut example of Beast head precognition being applicable in combat so that argument is out the window.

Chen is attempting to access the power of the beastheads via using their sealing stone/statue, he half-asses it so he doesn't get good control initially but later becomes a vessel to the point he nearly becomes the beast heads itself, anyone confused about the statue thing, that is the answer.

In any case, I have already posted Joie keeping up with a precog user in Starjun . To elaborate a bit on Starjun's Gourmet Clairvoyance, light takes a finite time to reach our eyes from any target so technically we are always looking at a vision of the past. Starjun's 3rd eye eliminates this lag entirely, even for targets hundreds of millions of light years away.

not even comparable, you're just showing Clairvoyance, what's I'm showing is precognition and clairvoyance, almighty on drugs, the beast head precognition's prediction and clairvoyance far outdoes Stajun's gourmet clairvoyance

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and Dante combatively can match this, completely understanding of the universe and time, a feat for him.

Joie been there, done that.

Frankly, incorrect, just like Hungry Space vs Ebony and Ivory, and now I realize that Hungry Space's feat is deeply intertwined with food luck, Joie's feat is against a significantly inferior ability.

6. Mental cut

Can you elaborate a bit more on this, it seems Mundus there is losing his consciousness simply because his body has been destroyed anyway.

Mundus' body was already destroyed so it obviously makes sense why he'd be losing consciousness too, doesn't necessarily have to be some hax effect of Dante's attacks.

Weird interpretation of the text, Mundus's body hasn't crumbled, not really body just the dark void but whatever, and he is making sounds before the mind cut and after as well.

What Dante did was shatter his consciousness and thus break his ability to comprehend why exactly he lost to Dante and why Dante even still exists

In any case, feats of this working on someone with Joie's level of mental resistances? I have yet to see anything matching Bambina passively fear flexing the entire Toriko planet by merely showing his true form, a very large planet filled with powerful beasts and humans that have layered mental resistances..

mental durability feats? not telepathy resistance, but mental durability

7. Demonic Adaptation

Point 1, I will be honest I see Dante feeling the bullets' effects in scan 1 but I see nothing anywhere stating he adapted to them?

basically, Beryl's anti-demonic gun can sever the connection of any demon to the demon world and greatly weaken them, more or less stripping them of their true nature and something that in most cases is vital to their existence, any form of proximity seems lethal considering Chen and Dante retreated without even attempting to counter it.

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But near the end, Dante had adapted to it enough that close proximity to it doesn't even affect an already injured and exhausted Dante.

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and that's basically the argument, there are of course plenty of adaptation feats for the brothers in the series, so many that it's kinda weird, another one is them instantly adapting past illusions and mind manipulation.

there were two more panels but this should get the point across

more or less, people with Sparda's blood pretty casually outgrow hax.

This also doesn't give Dante any special advantage as reactive evolution is a baseline ability for the Gourmet Cells too, and it has feats against a variety of stuff, from extreme gravity to extreme temperatures, etc..

Just Gravity to Temperatures? I had no idea that your adaptation was limited to being that pathetic.

You simply haven't provided the feats to make this argument..

well, feel like I now have.

8. Sealing

1) We don't have a timeframe for Sparda's sealing of the Demon Realm

it was done by the Blade Yamato, none of Yamato's abilities have a long time for effect, so, the longest we've seen were a few panels I think.

Narratively speaking, this doesn't make any sense either, considering I doubt the Demon Emperor at the time (Mundus) would've ignored Sparda sealing his kingdom away, sounds oxymoronic.

2) How combat applicable is it even? For all we know doing this completely drains out Sparda for example.

doubt it, it's done by Yamato aka something with Sparda's power, not Sparda's internal power.

3) How consistently has Dante himself even used it in combat against non fodder opponents?.

Uhm, He used a sealing on Mundus, the main villain of his life and the antagonist of the first game? as well as other enemies whom he seals down into his bullets.

9. The Yamato

This may have something to do specifically with people who have a demonic side, as it says it separates "man from demon" rather than a general power null, I will let you elaborate.

you're misinterpreting it, what's happening isn't just the separation of demon from man, the separation is of power from Heart

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what is happening is that the components of one existence are being separated and given existence, in this context, the character who was one existence had his components of power and heart divided into two and thus creating two separate existences born from the existence of one, and in doing this fundamentally the previous existence is no more as it has turned into two new separate existences.

not just power nullification no.

Joie also has high level of resistance to power draining by virtue of eating GOD which resists the draining effects of Area 0 as I showed before, draining that would work on 8 Kings and comparable star lvl beings who have not consumed GOD.

Irrelevant, what I'm describing is clearly not just drain lol

However assuming it works as advertised, a very similar concept exists in Toriko through the Gourmet Demons, which are also demons inhabiting a host body. So at worst it might separate out the Gourmet Demon from Joie's body but that doesn't matter because this process already exists in Toriko, and restoration to the original state is literally as easy as the host eating the manifested demon !

This manifested Gourmet Demon will be stupidly strong and can fight on its own so really you'd be making things worse for yourself. This is just a terrible ability against Toriko verse

Nah, that is not what is happening, what will happen is that the actual being with emotions, ideology and mentality of Joie would simply be separated from her power and her power would become a vessel and another existence, at that point maybe Dante would battle the power (unlikely, as the power would lack ambition) but in no way would Joie still be a thing, and fundamentally that's game over considering I've to just beat Joie for the tournament, an example of what would happen can be seen by Vergil, this is Vergil.

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Vergil used the Yamato to split his power from his heart, and what happened? he split himself, and his heart became V.

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and effectively V was a new person, with some memories of the past but nothing that should translate to anything in a fight, so this is one example of how this power works, Vergil split himself into two and while he technically still existed through V, V lacked the power of Vergil because the power of Vergil, became another existence, one holding a portion of Vergil's true strength, that, of course being Urizen, so functionally Vergil didn't exist anyone and due to the Yamato's powers, he turned into two separate independent existences, V and Urizen, and the method can only really be reversed via the usage of the great sword, Rebellion. Rebellion and Yamato are meant to be Yin-Yang and thus that works, so if Yamato lands, Joie is literally no more

Part IV - Don't Cook, you burnt the kitchen

Where is it stated the entire human realm which I presume you are referring to earth, is warped? And this seems more like some sort of reality warping based on the description of "stop the hands of time between seconds, reality is not what it seems" rather than actual TP.

Well of course, the Awakening of Argosax had a lot of effects, from reality and time being distorted to the laws being changed, however, we're discussing Dante, not Argosax, Dante just resists the whole passive kit of Argosax on every level and thus gains benefits from his abilities, considering he more or less dicked on Argosax and didn't even notice all his lethal passives.

why do I think the whole human world was affected? Argosax's existence was stated to have warped the human world.

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This warping is what included things like the manipulation of the flow of time, the laws of reality being turned upside down...and the minds of men being twisted and warped by the passive existence of Argosax, Dante resisted all.

It's also pretty fodder if apparently Beryl who is described as a human can resist it:

that is a feat for Beryl to resist the effects of the demon world.

I will leave you to elaborate if Beryl has any impressive mental resistance of her own but it also says she is not the first human to enter the Underworld and resist its influence so it's a pretty bad look if even normal humans are withstanding this.

quite the dishonest reading from you, it's stated that she isn't the first person to enter the demon world, not that she isn't the person to resist the mentally destroying effects of the demon world.

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And it's also lacking in lethality compared to Toriko verse Intimidation which outright kills the target through extreme fear instantly rather than gradually driving them to insanity which is how this is described:

all that lethality would mean nothing when it fails to take control in the first place, again, the representation of telepathy, as we discussed years ago is an umbrella term, the effect ceases.

It would still be fodder to Joie's level anyway as it's large planetary in scale and also affecting characters and beasts with actual layered resistance to such effects. To recap:

The Monkey King simply revealing his true form, not even seriously wanting to fight (he is in fact literally just trying to play with Toriko and co there), causes a planet wide panic attack. This is quite a large planet but the more impressive thing is he affected even Gourmet World beasts who already have layered resistance to Intimidation. As I showed previously Toriko when first entering the Gourmet World can kill beasts around lvl 500-600 with Intimidation alone but random apes in the Monkey King's continent are way beyond that on whom that level of Intimidation naturally has 0 effect and there are even far stronger beasts in Gourmet World, even above lvl 4000.

So this is large planet lvl TP on sheer scale alone, but even more impressive as it worked on probably hundreds of thousands of powerful Gourmet World beasts with layered resistance of their own.

I also want to emphasize here that Intimidation is a most basic ability in the verse, it has been present literally from Chapter 1:

Goes without saying, this had absolutely no effect on the Garara Gator, who is essentially the very first "villain" of the series, the Toriko equivalent of Mizuki in Naruto pretty much. So we got layered resistance against fear hax ever since Chapter 1. It keeps stacking from there and a 8 King not even seriously trying to fight passively fear flexed a large planet worth of countless beasts alone that outscale that Garara Gator in this regard astronomically, not to mention the dozens of powerful human characters as well.

The way I see it, Joie's Intimidation by feats completely blows Dante's resistance out of the water in everything, be it scale (affecting the entire population of a much larger planet instantly), range (even the Human World in Toriko is well over 65,000 km) or potency as in being able to affect characters with high levels of mental resistances..

Very Good, this would simply be countered by a Universal Energy System of Demonic Energy

Frankly, the scan I showed you was of the power of the Demon World manipulating and warping the minds of men, but that is not where it ends, the reason the Demon World's power crossing over warped the human world on every level was the passive effect of a great amount of demonic energy

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any great amount of demonic energy is frankly capable of doing what intimidation does, a lot of emotions come into play with the smallest existence of demonic energy, and your mind starts feeling things it should not feel.

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The Beryl example is just one, where someone who occupies any space of the demon world is downright destroyed mentally by the demonic energy.

however Beryl resisted the passive effects of the demon world.

yet almost got passively soul crushed by the passive existence of another demon.

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What exactly is the cause behind this difference? simple, the greater the concentrated mass of demonic energy, the greater it is, the greater the effects, even the smallest amounts present in the air the demon world can destroy humans, but when the volume increases so does the lethality and potency.

and Dante fought something that was the Nexus of Demonic energy itself, having enough to fuel every demon and demon world itself

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thus, his mind potency is arguably thousands of times superior to Argosax even if the range is more or less the same.

where am I going with this? what I'm suggesting is that demonic energy is inherently tied to the overall application of mind hax in Devil May Cry, the being with more demonic energy would by default have superior layering in terms of mental hax, and thus? we're looking at a dozen layers past Argosax's passive multi-dimensional telepathy.

but from my perspective, in this context, Joie would've to overpower Dante's demonic energy with her energy to mind hax him, otherwise just like the inverse application of mind hax, the greater mass of demonic energy would simply lead to complete resistance to her abilities.

I give you two choices

  1. Either the Demonic Energy of the Void Mundus is so much that it should logically be endless, in reserve not output, and thus there is no upper limit to the potency of his telepathy, potency not range, and thus there is no upper limit to Dante's resistance to the said Demonic Energy's Telepathic affects.
  2. Or, Joie and Dante would've to clash over their energy reserves for us to know whose passive telepathy would affect whom.

All this proves is that Ebony and Ivory don't work on characters of Dante's own tier, which Joie is, so thanks for proving further why they are a non factor here ig. And they are not subatomic destruction. Joie's germs on the other hand have worked on characters his own tier (Starjun) as well as stronger characters (Midora).

dumb argument, the main opponents Dante fights are folks who would end Toriko via no real difficulty, sometimes with passives lmfao, so it's understandable why something as trivial as deconstruction wouldn't work on the fucking Despair Embodied, but I guess deconstruction of that level would be a top tier ability in Toriko.

I have already cleared with the host that Joie is allowed to use his germs in spite of not having access to Gourmet Luck..

nowhere does Professorrespect say that though? he said the ability is allowed, but the drawbacks of lacking food luck would still hit you all the same.

"separate our world from the demons" alludes more to severing dimensional connections than sealing. Also no timeframe.

No timeframe was addressed in the previous section, and c'mon, you could do some research on your own so I don't have to explain basics, the underworld and the human world's separation was done by the Original Demon Emperor, Pluto, with his spatial manipulating spear.

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Heaven here refers to Demon World.

Earth refers to the Human World.

(Superiority complex)

the splitting of the worlds is an ancient primordial event far before Sparda, it has nothing to do with Yamato.

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Please don't misconnect events.

What actual feats does Dante have of escaping sealing, sealing that can be used to contain the likes of Midora?

Yamato users are able to escape from the sealed Underworld before Sparda's seal fell, the said seal could keep the likes of Mundus in, who are frankly far superior to Midora in every facet of straight combat.

Not relevant here unfortunately. As the mind controlling bacteria is a biological attack rather than conventional TP, so will need different resistances. Being a great telepath doesn't save you from toxins and diseases and vice versa.

the same concept as above applies, the passive demonic energy of the demon world is capable of Biological Alterations and Manipulation.

basic demonic energy stuff on god.

Addressed, Joie has more than enough power-draining and mental resistances to handle all this even taken at face value

I wish Yamato or such powers were actually related to either mental resistance or power draining lol, what's the counter for Dante with Sparda+ sealing and sealing up Joie like he did Mundus btw? someone, Sparda could not seal?

Minor discussion on Back Channels

This gives you potent undetectability, as you are spatio-temporally out of sync with the dimension that others occupy, this is to the extent of being completely undetectable to the the likes of Toriko, Coco, Zebra and Sunny who have their smell, sight, hearing and touch senses developed to an absurd degree:

Only consumers of Acacia's soup PAIR are able to sense them.

I would counter this with interdimensional sensing given Dante's ability to sense both the demon world and the human world even tho they're both separated by Pluto and one is sealed away by Yamato.

Dante generally has interdimensional extrasensory perception

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and he would be untouchable to the abilities anyway, he stood blinded in a void with zero light and dodged all attacks from an omnipresent being via skill, such cheap tricks are not worthy of consideration.

NEWS consumers also get the ability to manipulate and interact with Back Channels as I said, including physically cutting apart Back Channels (which again is a completely separate pocket of space-time):

The nasty aspect of this is spatial gouging, it's possible to literally gouge away space, leaving a void that nothing can occupy, which can stop most conventional regen:

Spatial Slicing won't mean much, Considering Vegil cannot affect Dante with his spatial abilities, and he both cuts

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and destroys space

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and Dante is generally unaffected by his abilities and these aren't some random abilities, just the very theme of the character

So to recap:

The ability to sense, manipulate, create and interact with Back Channels is derived from consuming certain items of Acacia's full course.

Wrapping yourself in a Back Channel like Joie makes you spatio-temporally out of sync with the real world, providing basically dimensional intangibility as well as completely undetectable to any conventional sensory powers.

Importantly this doesn't stop the Back Channel user themselves from interacting with the real world as we saw with Starjun among other examples. This is basically Limbo from Naruto on crack.

You also get the ability to slice through separate pockets of space-time itself, essentially cutting through dimensions, as well as gouging out space, which can be used to stop regen.

My responses are simple.

  1. I don't intend to question back channel, as the ability is not truly potent enough to make much of a difference.
  2. that would barely matter, but this is the moment when Dante can use Sparda's darkness and casually one shot Back Channel and return Joie to a powerless state, just seems like the perfect moment to use the power, if not, Existence cut is a good alternative and so are the dimensional sealing powers of Yamato but Sparda's darkness is the ideal ability here.
  3. not really comparable, Madara's Limbo is not like this, maybe in function but not in technicality, Here you describe Back Channel as something you wrap yourself in and temporally disconnect with the world.
  4. I don't see anything relating to any form of Intangibility there, let alone Dimensional, just undetectability.
  5. Dante has resistance to space destruction and space cut from all the Judgement cuts he has withstood from Vergil and the fact Vergil has been consistently unable to one-shot him.

Summary

well, frankly, I don't think there is much left to discuss at all.

Joie has been thoroughly disappointing to me and I've been convinced that I've always had an overestimated opinion of Toriko, due to the tournament limits Joie is able to compete with Dante in term of statistics but they're so far past in fighting skill, intellect and such factors it's like comparing heaven and earth, Frankly Joie can be omnipresent in a void where Dante is standing, and Joie still won't be able to touch Dante due to sheer skill gap and Dante would predict all her moves because he frankly has the most absurd analytical prediction in the tournament by a huge margin.

Joie' sealing to Dante's is like a harmless water pistol to a machine gun, if anything, the more likely outcome is Joie getting sealed into one of Dante's bullets, just being honest, Hungry Space which Joie's resistance is suspect to is basically the Walmart version of Ebony and Ivory and so forth, the gap in hax is really really huge.

Aside from Telepathy where she would lose too due to the nature of the application of telepathy engraved into the demonic energy system of Devil May Cry, Joie has no advantage and is so ridiculously outdone in complex abilities, there is no way Joie does not get one tapped by either Yamato or Rebellion, or sealed by Someone far superior in sealing and so forth, Dante having such a ridiculous arsenal of abilities matched with his combat intellect and skill is a death sentence of Joie, not only does Joie barely stand upto Dante in stats, due to the obscene gap in abilities and just how harmless Joie is too Dante, Joie's just another fish on the chopping board for Dante.

Joie gets dismantled.


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thenamelessone

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@shirso said:
@thenamelessone said:
@estrelladeleonn said:

Nice post, Taep.

@laufnyr said:

Taep

@alekos said:

TAEP

@firefly489 said:

TAEP

@professorrespect said:

@shirso

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@cergic said:

TAEP or T4V at the very least

@boutatakeanl said:

teep

Tagging those who asked above

@eredin12

Aight 2nd post is up finally

epic

@voidunbound said:

Really good post. I think i will follow from now on.

@ieatnettles said:

Great post, will follow this now

idk if you guys meant "follow" as being tagged for posts made but I'll do it anyway just in case.

It's up Peeps