High Tier SBT 1st Edition RD1: Mass vs MajinBlackheart

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#1 Edited by emperorthanos- (16868 posts) - - Show Bio

Well folks it is time my the first round of the Squad Builders Tourney.

@mass

Characters

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  • Hax - Hirose Yuichi (Alive Final Evolution) -2
  • Versatile - Ohkwang (God of High School) - 8

Perks:

  • Lightspeed (travel, combat and reaction speed) 7 for Hirose
  • Mind/Soul Immunity 7
  • Spider sense 1 for Ohkwang
No Caption Provided

@majinblackheart

Characters

  • Majin Buu (6)
  • Annihilus (4)
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Perks

  • One hour prep anywhere (5)
  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • Reed Richards Brain Power (5) - Annihilus

Rules

  1. Win by Death, Incap or KO.
  2. Standard Gear.
  3. Time Jumping, remnants, speeding up ones own time is allowed. Other forms of time manip is banned.
  4. No speed steal
  5. No BFR.
  6. No reality warping
  7. No Power Copying/stealing.
  8. No Summons, constructs or any other fodder stronger than 616 Bleeding Edge Iron Man.
  9. Summons are limited to 200
  10. Cloning is limited to 10

Voting Rules:

  1. Vote for the better debater
  2. Do not vote on which character you think you will win
  3. Give reasoning to your vote.
  4. I will count the total votes
  5. If I feel a vote is unjustified or biased I will not count it.

Battle ground

Indestructible planet inside a Solar System like others, with no other people on it except for the fighters.

No Caption Provided

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#2 Posted by FaradaySloth (12199 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and TAEP

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#3 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me after every post

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#4 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart I look forward to debating with you :) Would you like to go first or second? Either way, it will take me a couple days to get my post up

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#5 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio

@mass said:

@majinblackheart I look forward to debating with you :) Would you like to go first or second? Either way, it will take me a couple days to get my post up

Pleased to meet you. Since I have prep, it might make most sense for me to go first but I suppose it doesn't matter. I'm aiming to have my post ready this weekend. I have no idea who your characters are...

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#6 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos-: Where do teams start in the solar system? Space, different planets, same planets (close or far)?

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#7 Posted by emperorthanos- (16868 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by ProfessorRespect (8863 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by emperorthanos- (16868 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Edited by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio
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Annihilus – The Living Death that Walks

Annihilus is a super evolved insect from the Negative Zone who desires to kill all life in the positive and negative universe. Using highly advanced technology, Annihilus created the powerful Cosmic Control Rod as well as near invulnerable carapaces. Annihilus controls a massive army known as the Annihilation Wave.

Powers & Abilities

  • Super Strength
  • Invulnerability
  • Super Speed
  • Flight
  • Fear Projection

Equipment

The Cosmic Control Rod

Originally the source of Annihilus’ power, the Cosmic Control Rod possesses nearly limitless cosmic energy and absorption abilities. It can also be used to create shields and manipulate matter. The Cosmic Control Rod also allows for control over the Annihilation Wave.

The Quantum Bands

While not standard equipment, I have been allowed the Quantum Bands for the point allotment. The tool of the Protector of the Universe, the Quantum Bands can be used to create energy constructs from Quantum Energy. The Bands are also able to absorb energy across the entire electromagnetic spectrum.

The Bands have many other abilities, but as Annihilus has not been shown to have mastery over them so he will just be using them as an extra power source with protections as well as use them to their most basic of ability.

No Caption Provided

Majin Buu

Majin Buu is a being of pure destruction. After several transformations, Buu eventually absorbed Goten, Trunks, Piccolo and Gohan and gained all of their power, abilities and experience. Majin Buu possesses nearly inexhaustible energy and stamina as well as unparalleled regeneration.

Note: This is a composite Majin Buu allowing all forms in the manga only (Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Super). No anime feats are allowed but I will be using gifs from the anime for many feats that are simply direct recreations of the manga. Sometimes gifs paint a better picture.

Powers

  • Super Strength
  • Super Speed
  • Ki Energy Projection and Manipulation
  • Elasticity
  • Regeneration
  • Telekinesis
  • Absorption
  • Matter Manipulation
  • Energy Sense
  • Teleportation
  • Technique Mimicry
  • Healing
  • Master Martial Artist

Perks

  • Basic Knowledge (5)
  • Reed Richards Brain Power – Annihilus (5)
  • One Hour Prep Anywhere (5)
No Caption Provided

Prep

The main reason I selected Reed Richard’s brain power was to ensure that Annihilus could fathom and operate the equipment in the Baxter Building. Annihilus himself is quite tech savvy and has mastered the highly advanced technology of the Tyannans and has some advanced tech himself and he’s already done it before, but I wanted to leave no doubt. Besides, that brain power is bound to come in handy elsewhere.

No Caption Provided

So first thing is first, Annihilus opens the portal to the Negative Zone, breaks off the knob and unleashes the Annihilation Wave.

Gratuitous Annihilation Wave carnage and destruction:

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There are many components to the Annihilation Wave but for this battle about 30% will be orbital bombers and the other 70% to be mixed ground and air infantry. Annihilus has an entire universe at his disposal. With the Negative Zone portal open the ranks will be replenished nearly as soon as they are lost. At all times, over 50 creatures will be swarming each of your characters while over 50 orbital bombers fire from above with intent to pin your fighters down and taking opportune shots.

The Annihilation Wave operates on a hive mind and will unquestionable follow orders even to their own deaths. Despite this, many Annihilation Wave species are as intelligent as any sentient soldier.

Reed’s Arsenal - Everything + the Bathtub

Unfortunately, I do not know very much at all about Ohkwang but when someone described him to me as “Thanos on steroids” I decided to just pull out the very best Reed’s weaponry and technology has to offer.

  • Scans 1-2) Energy Dampening Guns (The New Warriors #17)
  • Scans 3-4) Dekion Pulse Gun (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #397)
  • Scan 5) EMP Gun (Fantastic Four Vol. 3 #70)
  • Scan 6) Sonic Gun (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #219)
  • Scan 7) Statis Ray (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #204)
  • Scan 8) Portal Gun (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #508)
  • Scans 9-10) Anti-Matter Gun (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #141)
  • Scan 11) Universal Entropy Gun (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #572)
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I apologize for the excess but it’s my understanding Ohkwang has no specific weakness so I’m testing that theory.

The energy dampeners and Dekion pulse gun will work in unison to both block and strip Ohkwang of his energy while the EMP gun can interrupt his energies as well and the sonic gun can cause disorientation and pain. Finally, regardless of how powerful Ohkwang may be, he will not survive a shot from the anti-matter or entropy guns as they have rendered an omega level reality warper comatose and killed a Celestial respectively.

Note the scan with the entropy gun. Reed has gathered a dozen weapons to assist the Council showing that he has a stockpile on hand even for a threat level of that magnitude.

I’ll provide scans if necessary, but Reed also has more personal and carrier craft than can be imagined including the Fantasticar. The Fantasticar comes equipped with a translocator and any other craft that will be used will be equipped with one as well.

Opening Battle

Starting distance has not been specified but we start on the same planet. I would imagine we start within a reasonably close range. The orbiting ships will open fire to put pressure on your team and get them on the defense while the infantry begins to swarm and occupy them. Annihilus and Buu both also have energy projection at their disposal.

  • Scan 1) The Cosmic Control Rod harms even the Hulk (Thanos vs Hulk #4)
  • Scans 2-3) Cosmic Control Rod knocks out Thor in a blast (Thor Vol. 1 #404)
  • Scans 4-5) Buu can use Gotenks’ Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack and will release his ghosts immediately after. The ghosts will be made just prior to start of battle and immediately seek out your teammates. If you are unaware, they explode on contact (your team won’t know that).
  • Scans 6-7) Buu will unleash an attack similar to the Human Extinction attack for additional chaos at the open of the battle.
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Additionally, the closer you get to Annihilus, the stronger his fear projection becomes. Should you have no defense to this, you will be incapable or restricted in your ability to fight back.

No Caption Provided

During the mayhem, the first squads of the Annihilation Wave specialty teams translocate in with the energy dampeners, Dekion pulse gun, EMP and sonic weaponry to begin draining and weakening Ohkwang.

Also arriving will be the portal gun and stasis ray. The portal gun will not be used on a friend like in the scans and larger portals will be opened. While neither of these weapons would work long term, they serve to slow Ohkwang down further.

Buu and Annihilus take this time to proceed with the main objective: restrict Ohkwang completely. The Annihilation Wave should already be limiting his range and his focus. There are several methods that will be simultaneously operating at the same time.

  • Scan 1) The Cosmic Control Rod can create bonds of solidified energy (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #140)
  • Scans 2-4) With the Quantum Bands, Annihilus can create an energy cage. These can be made to last indefinitely (Quasar #3). The energy operates at the speed of light (Quasar #11)
  • Gif 5) Buu can use parts of his body to create strong restrictive coils controlled by his mind.
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Once any of these methods hit their mark, the others will only be easier to land and reinforce the bondage for the final assault: The remaining squads translocate in with the heavy artillery including the Anti-Matter Gun and the Universal Entropy Gun. With Ohkwang pinned down, either of these weapons finish him off.

Next Time…

In the next round of counters I will cover specific stats and abilities for Buu and Annihilus depending on how the battle is perceived as moving forward. I realize I did not cover Hirose, but based on what I can tell anything described above should prove just as difficult for him. Either of my team has ways of detecting an invisible opponent and between durability and regeneration, the void power shouldn’t hinder either of my characters much.

That being said, I have a lot to learn about Ohkwang and Hirose so I look forward to see this move forward.

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#12 Edited by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos-: I forgot to clarify this earlier but I am restricted to just Old King Ohkwang or can I use his Dante Feats as well?

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#14 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio

@mass: I was missing a link to a pic and edited a couple of typos. I'm not so sure ET got your mention.

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#15 Posted by emperorthanos- (16868 posts) - - Show Bio

@mass said:

@emperorthanos-: I forgot to clarify this earlier but I am restricted to just Old King Ohkwang or can I use his Dante Feats as well?

You can get his Dante feats

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#16 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by Warlockmage (9537 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEGDP plz

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#18 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, here we go!!!

My perks:

  • Lightspeed (travel, combat and reaction speed) 7 for Hirose
  • Mind/Soul Immunity 7
  • Spider sense 1 for Ohkwang

Hirose Yuichi - The Void Incarnate

No Caption Provided

Biography:

Hirose Yuichi is from the manga, Alive: Final Evolution. Hirose led a rough life. In school he was constantly being bullied by other kids and even considered killing himself. When life seemed to have lost all its meaning something supernatural happened. Mysterious powers started to manifest in individuals who had lost the will to live. Eventually his powers explode when he bullies attempt to attack him on the rooftop. A gruesome scene unfolds as Hirose starts erasing them and everything around him. As his powers grew, his heart becomes more colder and darker. With his heart devoid of feeling, Hirose becomes the perfect vessel for Akuro's heart, the source of all the mysterious powers. When he merges with Akuro's Heart he becomes The Void.

Destructive Feats:

Hirose's powers are the void, to erase everything. His attacks are invisible to all except those who carry a piece of Akuro's Heart.

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Hirose's attacks are invisible:

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Hirose casually erases a large section of mountain far off in the distance:

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Hirose Erases a large section of forest and a quarter of a mountain with a wave of his hand

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Hirose erases a barrier ability that creates an isolated space separate from the outside world:

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Description of the isolated space above:

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Hirose erases everything around him in an instant:

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Hirose erases Hollywood sign (lol):

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There are many, many more examples of him erasing things but these are the largest scale and show just how powerful he truly is.

Durability and Resistances:

Hirose has no need for durability. When he become one with the Heart of Akuro, he become truly intangible, a being without any form, the void:

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Hirose cannot be controlled with mental abilities. Katsumata Shigeki has a Piece of Akuro's Heart, referred to as Heart Pieces. Individuals with Heart Pieces can control the minds of others. The mind control is so powerful that if Katsumata orders it, the victim will gladly kill themself. Once Hirose merged with the Heart of Akuro, Katsumata stated that he can't control Hirose anymore with his power.

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Even other powers just go right through Hirose. Kusunoki Nami attempts to trap Hirose in giant block of ice, but he just goes right through it.

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Hirose's heart (soul) has merged with the Heart of Akuro. The Heart of Akuro can only be removed by very special circumstances. There are 3 Heart Pieces in existence. In order to remove the Heart of Akuro, one Heart Pierce must be absorbed by Hirose while and act as an archor around The Heart of Akuro for another Heart Piece to pull the Heart out. Basically without 2 Heart Pieces, his soul cannot be removed.

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Ludger has the ability to copy any power. He used his ability to copy Hirose's Void powers and attempt to erase him. Unfortunately Ludger learns that Hirose cannot be erased an even the Void, has no effect on Hirose's intangibility body.

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Due to his intangibility, Hirose can freely alter his appearance:

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Akuro's Heart

Hirose absorbed Akuro's Heart, the power source for Akuro's System which can be used to transform every living being on Earth into a spiritual body. Those spiritual bodies are then absorbed together into one singular cosmic entity. This isn't something Hirose can do, its simply meant to show that his powers when fueled by Akuro's Heart have that kind of potential behind them.

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Okhwang - The King of Nox

No Caption Provided

Biography:

Okhwang, or the King(or the Jade Emperor), was once considered the ruler of all the Gods, until he voluntarily stayed on Earth and founded the organization Nox to complete his plans of immortality. He is the one of the main antagonists of God of highschool. For most of the story, he is an Old Man, until he possesses his clones body to return to his youth, which exponentially increased his powers and physical abilities. After being exhausted from his fight against the protagonists of the story, half of his powers, his physical abilities were stolen by his son, R, rendering him old again. He then proceeds to give the other half of his powers, the Sage's wisdom, to the human Han Dae-Wi, making the latter the next Jade Emperor and killing himself in the process.

Four Fundamental Forces of Nature

Okhwang has power over the Four Fundamental Forces of Nature: Electromagnetic Force, Gravity, Weak-Force and Strong-Force. Using this forces, he can use the power of Inertia, Friction, Acceleration and Attraction:

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Perhaps the best of these feats is when Okhwang uses his iconic "Throwing a Planet" ability. When fighting with Mori Jin, Okhwang throws two planets at him at incredible speeds. This is not only an excellent example of telekinesis, it also shows the speed at which Okhwang is fighting (moving planets around a solar system should easily be FTL). I've included a picture of the solar system they are battling in to show the original distance between those planets (Scans 1 and 2):

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By combining the forces of Attraction, Repulsion and Inertia, Okhwang completely ragdolls a helpless Eve:

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Zero Frictional Force is a crazy defensive power. Basically it allows Okhwang to brush off any shock and remember Okhwang can tank 2 planets crashing on top of himself and take zero damage. Mori Hui is raining dozens to consecutive attacks on Ohkwang and all of the shock from those attacks are just rolling right off Okhwang:

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Okhwang insane abilities don't stop there though. He can literally bend the space of an attack and return back onto his attacker. Mori Hui thought he had Okhwang backed into a corner so he launched a Thunderbolt charged attack against him only for all the damage of said attack to be done back to Mori Hui:

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Weak Nuclear Force literally destroys a part of Mori Hui's arm without a single trace left:

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Strong Nuclear Force, Ohkwang in Dante's body creates a giant ball of nuclear energy and threatens to send Asia back to the Stone Age:

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Durability:

This section will be really easy. Okhwang's durability is crazy. This one feat sums up his durability nicely. In his battle with Mori Jin, Okhwang throws two planets at them, smashing himself and Mori Jin between the planets. The destroyed worlds do nothing to Okhwang and he continues to battle Mori Jin as if nothing happened. I've included a picture of the solar system they are battling in to show the original distance between those planets (Scans 1 and 2):

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Blade of Tathagata

This is Okhwang's personal weapon.

Just unsheathing the Blade cuts the entire Korean Pennisula and Juju island in half (including the clouds over the continent:

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A single thrust from the Blade of Tathagata can cut right through both Ilpyo and Mori Jin (Mori is wearing his Armorsuit too):

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What makes this an extremely impressive piercing feat is the fact that right before that happened, Mori Jin was just smashed between two planets and didn't even flinch, yet the Blade of Tathagata easily stabs right through him. So you're looking at a piercing feat with more power than 2 planets.

Speed:

Lets start with one of the God of High School's best speed feats. First lets set the stage. Ilpyo Park is searching for Jin Mori in a solar system. Now this isn't our solar system of course but you can clearly see several planets around him:

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Meanwhile, Mori Jin is sitting in a completely different solar system (note the oddly shaped celestial bodies are different from the ones around Ilpyo Park when he is looking for Mori Jin) missing his friends:

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While fighting with one of the residents of that solar system, Mori Jin suddenly notices the fight between Okhwang and Ilpyo Park. He immediately activates his Speed Mode and dashes to Ilpyo Park from across space:

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Okhwang is about to deliver the finishing blow when suddenly he senses and reacts to Mori Jin's Speed Mode. If you put everything above together basically, Ilpyo Park and Okhwang as in Solar System A and Mori Jin is in Solar System B. Mori Jin senses Ilpyo Park about to be killed by Okhwang and dashes from Solar System B to Solar System A. As Okhwang is about to kill Ilpyo Park, he senses and reacts to Mori Jin rushing from Solar System B to Solar System A. That type of speed is insane; to fly from one Solar System to another in a matter of moments. It is easily FTL to MFTL and Okhwang not one sensed it, but reacted to it:

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My Counters to Your First Move:

I can tell you put a lot of effort in your strategy. Its extremely well thought out and would prove difficult for just about anyone. Unfortunately your opponents aren't just anyone, they are The Jade Emperor, Ohkwang and the Void Incarnate Hirose Yuichi.

The orbiting ships will open fire to put pressure on your team and get them on the defense while the infantry begins to swarm and occupy them. Annihilus and Buu both also have energy projection at their disposal.

Against Hirose none of that will matter. He has no physical form and is truly intangible, thus every single blast will just pass right through him. Small fry will unfortunately just lead to more causalities as Okhwang literally drops another planet on our battlefield. The planet may be indestructible for this battle but the resulting damage of having another world collide with ours will completely wipe out your entire force. Given Okhwang's speed being easily multiple times FTL, he can decimate your team before they can even pull the trigger.

Additionally, the closer you get to Annihilus, the stronger his fear projectionbecomes. Should you have no defense to this, you will be incapable or restricted in your ability to fight back.

One of my perks is Mind/Soul Immunity so I don't think Fear Projection will work on them.

During the mayhem, the first squads of the Annihilation Wave specialty teams translocate in with the energy dampeners, Dekion pulse gun, EMP and sonic weaponry to begin draining and weakening Ohkwang.

If the first squad survives the "Planet Toss", Hirose will simply erase them all, weapons and all. With his lightspeed perk he'll be plenty fast enough to stop them all and since his Void has a huge range, he should be able to erase them all the moment the battle starts.

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Buu and Annihilus take this time to proceed with the main objective: restrict Ohkwang completely. The Annihilation Wave should already be limiting his range and his focus. There are several methods that will be simultaneously operating at the same time.

  • Scan 1) The Cosmic Control Rod can create bonds of solidified energy (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #140)
  • Scans 2-4) With the Quantum Bands, Annihilus can create an energy cage. These can be made to last indefinitely (Quasar #3). The energy operates at the speed of light (Quasar #11)
  • Gif 5) Buu can use parts of his body to create strong restrictive coils controlled by his mind.

Unfortunately, this is all for not. A simple wave from Hirose and Buu & Annihilus are erased into the Void. Buu cannot regenerate from nothing and Annihilus' Quantum Bands will do little to stop him from being erased.

There is also Okhwang's ability to literally bend space, redirecting all of your attacks back at your duo.

Once any of these methods hit their mark, the others will only be easier to land and reinforce the bondage for the final assault: The remaining squads translocate in with the heavy artillery including the Anti-Matter Gun and the Universal Entropy Gun. With Ohkwang pinned down, either of these weapons finish him off.

Pinned down Okhwang is next to impossible without sealing the Fundamental Natural Forces. Zero Friction lets him roll off literally any shock from any force. Repulsion pushes your attacks back. Attractions pulls your duo with enough force to move entire planets. Gravity bends spaces and reflects your attacks back at you.

Even the Anti-Matter Gun and Universal Entropy Gun will simply have their beams bent and sent back at your duo. That or Hirose erases your duo first which is probably what is going to happen.

Its Not a Battle, Its a Massacre:

  • It is very much within character for Hirose to simply erase anything and everyone around him. His invisible void attacks will completely annihilate everything they touch.
  • With Hirose's intangibility, none of your attacks can touch him. Even if the attack did hit his intangible body, because he has no physical form, he will just come back together like smoke.
  • Okhwang's force manipulation gives him virtually complete control of the battlefield rending your superior numbers and weaponry, useless
  • I don't see any reason why Hirose couldn't immediately erase Buu and Annihilus ending the battle as soon as it starts.
  • Okhwang's superior speed, attack power and durability are too much for your forces to handle. The Fundamental Forces make him almost untouchable as he'll bend space, reflect attacks, cause attacks to miss, push and pull your party all over the battlefield.
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#19 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio

@mass: Awesome, I'll get to work.

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#21 Edited by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Against Hirose none of that will matter. He has no physical form and is truly intangible, thus every single blast will just pass right through him. Small fry will unfortunately just lead to more causalities as Okhwang literally drops another planet on our battlefield.

Would it really be in character for him to open immediately with a move like that against unknown opponents? He did it early against Mori Jin but not immediately and that is someone he knew.

The planet may be indestructible for this battle but the resulting damage of having another world collide with ours will completely wipe out your entire force. Given Okhwang's speed being easily multiple times FTL, he can decimate your team before they can even pull the trigger.

The trigger is already pulled. And you may wipe out my initial force with this attack, but that is exactly what they are here for: to occupy Okhwang. But not to worry, fresh replacements are waiting at the portal to take their place in a never-ending swarm. You only have so many planets to throw. My horde is billions.

Null and Void

No Caption Provided

If the first squad survives the "Planet Toss", Hirose will simply erase them all, weapons and all. With his lightspeed perk he'll be plenty fast enough to stop them all and since his Void has a huge range, he should be able to erase them all the moment the battle starts.

A simple wave from Hirose and Buu & Annihilus are erased into the Void. Buu cannot regenerate from nothing and Annihilus' Quantum Bands will do little to stop him from being erased.

In theory this wraps up nicely but it really is quite the large no limits fallacy. The strongest substance you’ve shown Hirose to erase is stone and rock, which is far below the durability of either Buu or Annihilus.

Majin Buu can easily survive both physical and energy attacks far beyond that of any mountain. Here’s a few examples of weaker versions of Buu coming back with no damage whatsoever from SSJ3 Goku’s Kamehameha – which can easily destroy planets.

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DBZ Ch 281 & 316

I can provide some Annihilus durability feats as well, but it matters not. And while I could probably scrounge up a scan of Quasar using the bands to survive in a void, I actually have something better.

Fantastic Four Unlimited #3
Fantastic Four Unlimited #3

The Cosmic Control Rod can protect Annihilus from entering the aptly named Annihilation Area – a location where the positive matter universe and the anti-matter universe collide and all matter is obliterated. These forces are easily stronger than the power Hirose has shown and icing on the cake is Annihilus can also protect a large group (in this case the special squads) and have energy to spare.

With Hirose's intangibility, none of your attacks can touch him. Even if the attack did hit his intangible body, because he has no physical form, he will just come back together like smoke.

The thing about intangibility is that usually it is not true intangibility. Most characters with phasing powers lower their density to pass through things. This actually makes sense since they are characters that exist. Since they exist, they have matter.

The Cosmic Control Rod can manipulate matter and Annihilus can use it to make Hirose tangible turn him into something that kills him. Similarly, Buu can magically transmute him. In fact, Buu could do this over a large area and get both Hirose and Okhwang at the same time.

  • Scans 1-2) Turns the Demon King Dabura into a cookie (Dragon Ball Z Ch 270)
  • Scans 3-4) Turns entire city populations into candy/clay (Dragon Ball Z Ch 276 & 283)
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But even if it turns out that Hirose is indeed truly an apparition, then there is actually a simpler solution: absorb his energy. As previously stated, the Cosmic Control Rod can absorb virtually any type of energy. There are two energies that can be absorbed from Hirose: Akuro’s Heart and his own life energy like he did to these Asgardians (Thor Vol. 1 #404). You can keep the heart; I just want its energy.

It would go very similarly to when Quasar fought him. Maybe my fear projection won’t work because of the perk, but Hirose will live the last moments of his life in fear.

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Annihilation: Nova #4

Fundamental Forces vs Force of Destruction

I have to say, I think I might have overestimated Okhwang now that I have seen his feats and read a few of his fights. You claim to have the strength, speed and durability advantage here, but Majin Buu begs to differ.

No Caption Provided

Perhaps the best of these feats is when Okhwang uses his iconic "Throwing a Planet" ability. When fighting with Mori Jin, Okhwang throws two planets at him at incredible speeds. This is not only an excellent example of telekinesis, it also shows the speed at which Okhwang is fighting (moving planets around a solar system should easily be FTL). I've included a picture of the solar system they are battling in to show the original distance between those planets

I suppose we will start here since that is what you propose Okhwang’s initial instinct would be to use. First I would like to point out that although I am not using this as part of my argument, the proportions in those drawings are absolutely horrendous. They are more akin to moons rotating around a planet than an actual solar system, which by comparison would be so vast that you wouldn’t be able to see the next planet.

However, I acknowledge that given the actual size of a solar system, pulling two planets together would be FTL. Annihilus and Buu have no problem sensing it or surviving it though.

  • Scans 1-3) Annihilus survives Galactus blast that destroys three star systems in mere moments. This blast is easily MFTL and more powerful than a planet collision (Annihilation #6). This blast extended to the wholegalaxy.
  • Scans 4-5) Buu senses reach to another universe (Dragon Ball Z Ch 315)
  • Scans 6-7) Buu regenerates after blowing the Earth up on himself (Dragon Ball Z Ch 315)
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I also don’t really see this as light speed combat. Sure, the attack was, but neither of them dodged it. Similarly, the following feat:

As Okhwang is about to kill Ilpyo Park, he senses and reacts to Mori Jin rushing from Solar System B to Solar System A. That type of speed is insane; to fly from one Solar System to another in a matter of moments. It is easily FTL to MFTL and Okhwang not one sensed it, but reacted to it:

This doesn’t appear to be a reaction to me. This is Mori Jin speeding in and stopping the finishing blow Okhwang was already delivering to Ilpyo Park (“Die Fox”). He’s already in motion when Jin blocks him. You can see the shock on his face and how surprised he is (!!). This is a Jin feat (I am very impressed with his Kinto’un lol).

Even if it were a reaction, it is no more impressive than the reaction feats above for Annihilus and Buu. How about Buu reacting to Goku’s Instant Transmission from across the Earth before he could even sense ki?

Dragon Ball Z Ch 279
Dragon Ball Z Ch 279

Most of Okhwang fights are on a relatively small platform. There are many other characters that fight the King as well and I do not get the impression that anything is happening at light speeds. Okhwang barely moves from the same spot most of the time.

Majin Buu is pretty fast himself. He also has a lot of unique abilities and a very unusual physiology. Not that it matters because Okhwang’s overconfidence in his abilities showed him countered at nearly every turn, every time to his surprise. So let’s take a look at those abilities and how it worked out for Okhwang when he used them.

Attraction – Probably the dumbest move to use against Buu especially when he is trying to bind you. This was countered by Mori Hui as well. Buu’s elasticity allows him to easily land blows while being pushed away for a hard-hitting unsuspected attack. This scan is also the first of many showings of The King getting teamed up on successfully.

This also brings Buu in close for another method of easy win: absorption.

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Buu Absorbs Gohan – A stronger fighter at the time – DBZ Ch 308

Repulsion – Good for playing keep away but is useless otherwise. The King will need it since the entire Annihilation swarm will be on him since Hirose isn’t a viable target for them (and he’ll be dead anyway).

Inertia – This is only really useful in conjunction with the above two as far as I can tell.

Gravity – If Okwhang uses gravity on Buu it’s basically a free shot for Buu since it will more than likely have no effect on him. Before even becoming a Super Saiyan, Goku had mastered 100x gravity. Before reaching SSJ2, the Saiyans were working up to 300g. Anti-gravity also isn’t very useful against flying characters.

Zero Frictional Force – Mori Hui also countered this immediately by landing a blow opposite where Okhwang used the ability. It’s then shown in the panel after Mori Hui’s flurry of punches that some got through (blood seen coming from Okhwang’s mouth). Buu can flurry punches with the best of the Dragon Ball cast.

I also question whether this ability will work on energy attacks, more specifically, massive ones like the following:

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Buu AOE Attack – DBZ Ch 271

I propose this same question for the gravity space bending reversal for any energy attack really. It seems many of his control over forces involve touching his opponent, such as the following:

Weak Nuclear Force – Again this is an up-close and personal attack that is risky for Okhwang. Buu will be completely unfazed by losing any part of his body and will counter attack just like Mori Hui did. Are we beginning to notice The King’s overconfidence in his abilities?

Buu has complete control over his molecular structure.

  • Scans 1-2) Buu doesn’t even need a head and can reform it instantly (DBZ Ch 318 & 319)
  • Scans 3-4) Buu can control cut off parts of his body independently (DBZ Ch 308)
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Strong Nuclear Force – Honestly, a country level blast is absolutely nothing to Majin Buu or Annihilus for that matter.

Okhwang relies heavily on close quarters combat, something he cannot hope to win against Majin Buu. Buu never loses stamina regardless of the level of combat or how many times he regenerates. He will absorb the damage and recover from any physical force. Only fighting another Buu can he be damaged in such a way.

The King, however, cannot regenerate. Every hit he takes matters and despite all of his powers, he takes many hits. The Blade of Tathagata will be equally useless and create more openings for Buu, again like Mori Hui did. But let’s also discuss what if these physical strikes were instead energy blasts of incredible power.

Majin Buu can casually make ki blasts capable of destroying the planet.

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Characters astronomically weaker have claimed to be able to destroy solar systems. Even if you deflect them back, they can be dodged or Buu can just regenerate. He can do it indefinitely.

Pinned down Okhwang is next to impossible without sealing the Fundamental Natural Forces. Zero Friction lets him roll off literally any shock from any force. Repulsion pushes your attacks back. Attractions pulls your duo with enough force to move entire planets. Gravity bends spaces and reflects your attacks back at you.

The King doesn’t ever show the type of control you are suggesting here. He literally has to speak to engage these abilities. He’s been held by wind attacks without having his abilities sealed. He’s been caught off guard fighting just two opponents and been pretty successfully fought with way less than I’m bringing to the table. He was even impeded by simply blocking his path behind him. He is not untouchable.

Now I understand he is faster and stronger in his younger body he stole from Dante, but unfortunately for you we never actually get to see what he can do with the forces when he can use more than one at a time, but they are all not going to get you far with Buu anyway.

This isn’t a Massacre, it’s a Slaughter

Hirose can be taken out quickly by Annihilus and as it would seem, Buu is more than enough a match for Okhwang not including the ever-present Annihilation Wave swarm that, given showings, should be plenty effective at distracting Okhwang and giving openings for the multitude of ways my team has of defeating him.

If only I had a little more time I could have saved the big guns for a bigger target. The Anti-Matter Gun and Universal Entropy Gun are more than likely not needed.

Next post will be counters of course and I will detail how effective the Annihilation Wave is as “fodder” and I get the feeling we will be talking about speed, lol.

No Caption Provided

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#22 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: sorry for the delay, had a very busy week/weekend so I'll try to get my post up soon

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#25 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by emperorthanos- (16868 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: @emperorthanos-: I apologize for the long wait and delays. To be honest, I've lost interest in these characters for now so I'll go ahead and forfeit as to not hold you up any longer

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#28 Edited by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio

For Haru
For Haru
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#29 Posted by Lil_Remains (1767 posts) - - Show Bio

ooh

tag me for Jlone's next match.

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#30 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio

@mass: I just finished Alive and I thought it was fantastic. I'm sorry you lost interest in the match but thanks for a great manga at least.

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#31 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: I’m glad you liked it :)

Hirose is one of my favorite characters. It didn’t lose interest in him, it was Okhwang. I don’t know why I signed up with him because I really don’t like his character (I don’t like debating with GoH characters in general) lol.

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#32 Posted by Mass (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: With no barring on the forfeited match above, after reading Alive for yourself, what do you think of Hirose?

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#33 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9901 posts) - - Show Bio

@mass: As a character, I hate him lol. When I thought he killed Taisuke I was panicking.

For the tournament, he might be a little low on the totem pole for a high tier tournament, although I think he'd be much more useful against other characters. Mine just seem to have the perfect defense for his power and I found quite a few examples that show matter manipulation or life energy draining would work on him. I think Taisuke, Yura or even Kanon could also be almost as useful and you could probably get them for only 1 point.

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#34 Posted by emperorthanos- (16868 posts) - - Show Bio
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