1)Restrains Superman, Superboy and Wonder Woman at the same time.
2)Psionic constructs heavily harm Superman.
3)Rips apart Superboy atom by atom.
4)Crushes Faora's heart.
Telepathy and Illusion Creation
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1) Shows Supergirl an illusion of Krypton.
2) Makes Supergirl think she has been attacked by Superman.
Teleportation
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1,2,3) Teleports Supergirl from Earth to the surface of the Sun.
4) Teleports the Fortress of Solitiude a large distance.
Stats
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1) Casually slaps away a blizing Superman.
2,3,4) Smacks Superman into orbit.
Blitzes Superman, momentarily KO'ing him.
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Superman comes in speeding from orbit and speedblitz H'El, hitting him with punches that shake the planet,punches that can be felt down to Earth's core and up to the Watch Tower in Earth's orbit. Despite all this H'el shows no sign of damage.
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Withstood a punch from angry Supergirl without showing any sign of injury, while she bocunce back hurting her hands (He didn't moved a inch).
Other Versatility
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1) Makes himself and Supergirl invisible.
2) Can make forcefields.
Shrinks down Supergirl and teleports her inside a miniature Kandor.
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He can use telekinesis to ''see'' the surroundings to sense the presence of others for a thousand-mile radius.
That's it for now.
Manchester Black
Feats
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1) Makes Doomsday hate Imperiex instead of Superman. Doomsday is very hard to TP because of his nature and he had already adapted to Brainiac's TP before.
2,3,4) Switches Superman and Bizarro's minds. Even MMH can't do anything about this.
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Gives Superman a stroke with his telekinesis.
Ragdolls Superman through mountains with his TK.
Tangent Superman
Feats
He has pretty awesome TK apart some standard Superman-esque powers.
Even the Tangent verse Powergirl, one of his lackeys, can take on a team of powerhouses like Wally, Guy Gardner, Black Lightning and their Tangent verse counterparts.
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Restrains John Stewart telekinetically
Disables John's ring and toys with him for a bit.
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Has some telepathy, forcibly enters John's mind.
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Forcibly removes John's ring by TK
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Ragdolls Superman
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He has forcefields capable of tanking a pissed off Superman's punches
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vs Pre crisis Barry Allen.
Fast enough to react to a serious Flash, can take several hits without much damage, so can his shields. Finishes the fight by telekinetically halting Barry's mental processes. Extremely impressive as Flashes have great TP resistance due to how fast their thoughts are.
The best thing is Tangent Superman was clearly holding back the entire fight while Barry was going all out.
Prep
I am not exactly sure tbh why I took this perk. I guess my members get to know each other better, formulate a battle plan, while H'el and Tangent Supes put their powers together to create a powerful protective forcefield around them.
Then H'el makes them all invisible.
Battle Plan
Divide and Conquer
As soon as the fight starts, H'el teleports Thor and Kang to the other side of the planet.
Then they kill Stark in any number of ways. Black stops his heart, Harvey his brain, and H'el just rips him apart with TK while crushing his heart for good measure.
1-0
They chill a little while Thor and Kang makes their way back. H'el teleports Kang to the other side of the planet, and they give Thor the Stark treatment.
2-0
Rinse and repeat.
3-0
Initial Thoughts
I am not sure what prep you are planning though I can't think of anything Stark can do in an hour to stop my team. And time manipulation is banned so Kang loses his biggest ace. Still, I am aware that Kang does have some cool tech, so I am not assuming anything at this stage.
Also you have stacked a super villain with two prominent Avengers. There's no in fighting but Stark or Thor and Kang are sure as heck not going to work in sync together to come up with a plan. That's another point you need to keep in mind.
TEAM DIVINE FUTURE: Thor Odinson; Kang the Conqueror; Iron Man
Thor: Physical Powerhouse
Physicals:
1: While in a friendly arm-wrestling match, Thor and Hercules generate enough force to not just shatter an entire plateau, but knock the entire planet out of orbit - a pretty casual planetary level feat showing that Thor has planetary strength.
2 - 4: This strength translates pretty well to his striking power as well. Here, we can see Thor casually one-shot a force-field which can withstand nuclear bombs, and knock enemies into orbit.
5 - 7: And of course, Thor's durability is commensurate to his strength. He can take a beating from an amped Juggernaut, and even casually survive in the core of a star. He can also tank attacks from the likes of Firelord.
8: Thor's mental/TP resistance seems important for this battle, so it's definitely helpful that he can even withstand TP attacks which the likes of Moondragon can't fight against.
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Powers:
Thor is the god of lightning, and that grants him impressive weather and energy manipulation capabilities.
1 - 2: Thor's storm can stop a planet-busting beam.
3 - 4: Thor's lightning is powerful enough to even kill the Void.
5 - 9: Thor can use Mjolnir to absorb, redirect, and even magnify energy attacks of immense power.
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Kang: Temporal Titan
Armor:
Kang's armor features a bunch of great tricks and amazing durability. It's definitely going to be very useful in the coming battle.
1 - 2: In terms of blunt force durability, Kang's armor and its built-in shields are unparalleled. They can take powerful blows from the likes of Thor and Hercules, while leaving Kang unharmed.
3 - 5: This applies to his energy durability as well. Kang's armor can tank blasts from the likes of the Silver Surfer, and even Thor himself.
6 - 9: Kang's armor also offers unparalleled offensive power. He has a glove which can make whoever it touches be buried with the weight of half a planet, weapons which can burn through Silver Surfer's skin, and even anti-matter screens that can disintegrate any earthly matter.
10: Finally, Kang's armor even possess cloaking shields which can block the acute senses of even Silver Surfer - making himself effectively undetectable.
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Time Manipulation:
Kang's time manipulation powers are key to my strategy, so let me go through them below.
1 - 3: Kang's powers mean he can access any weapons or items that exist in the time stream, instantly summoning them to his location.
4 - 5: Kang can also use these powers to see the future.
6 - 10: Kang can view the entire timestream at his whim, and, as you can see, he can show Adam Warlock his entire past and future in just a few minutes.
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This basically means that he can see who my team is going up against, view their entire history to see what their powers and weaknesses are, and then summon any weaponry or gear he needs to take them down.
Iron Man: Invincible Industrialist
I'm using a composite Iron Man, so I get feats from every single armor of his that doesn't break herald tier.
Physicals:
1- 3: First, I'd like to show that composite Iron Man includes suits which have been able to casually beat his older suits, including two-shotting his WWH-buster.
4 - 6: Iron Man's armors have shown mountain busting strength on multiple occasions.
7: Iron Man stalemates WWH in striking strength, showing impressive strength as well as durability.
8 - 9: Iron Man's armors have been able to tank hits from the likes of Ulik (a Thor villain) and Hercules.
10: With Extremis tech, Iron Man has a healing factor that allows him to literally regrow organs when he pleases.
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Weaponry/Blasting Power:
1: Iron Man has sonic attacks that could put down an entire regiment and nearly kill a non-Cytorrak Juggernaut.
2: Iron Man's uni-beam can exceed 10,000K and nearly kill Graviton.
3: Classic armor repulsors can casually mountain bust.
4: Iron Man can unleash a barrage of repulsors and sonics enough to power a continent.
5: Iron Man can form a repulsor blade that can cut through an amped Grey Gargoyle, one of the worthy.
6: Iron Man's Pulse Bolts can damage Ultron-13.
7: Iron Man can one-shot an amped Ulik (Thor villain) with repulsors.
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Versatility:
1 - 2: Iron Man is immune to even telepathy which can affect the likes of Thor, Hulk, Vision, etc. and is also capable of using a telepathic inverter to nullify telepathy.
3: The suit has anti-telepathic tasers that cause people to be shocked the harder they think.
4: The suit has counter-measures for Scarlet Witch's hex powers and internal dampeners capable of blocking even the Phoenix's telekinesis.
5: Stark has armor which can phase through objects, rendering it virtually impossible to harm when intangible.
6 - 8: Tony's armor can absorb energy and use it to amp itself up. Absorbing Thor's lightning allows it to become strong enough to go toe to toe with a mind-controlled Thor, and absorbing energy from Silver Surfer allows Iron Man to redirect and magnify the energy to knock him out.
9 - 10: Iron Man can channel all the energy in his suit into a punch that can even knock out the Hulk (pre-Sakaar).
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This means that Iron Man is going to be super tough for your team to beat, even though on the surface he seems like a weak link.
Prep:
My team can use their prep to do a number of things. First, Kang will use his temporal mastery to look into the future and see who is on your team, and then look into the timestream to gain full knowledge on your team. If for some reason those don't work, he can just summon this time-stream viewer which Noh-Varr, Spider-Man, and Iron Man invented for the same purpose:
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Avengers Vol. 4 #2
It shows them all the possible futures but also shows them the strongest transmission (ie. which is more likely to happen). So they will know your entire team's powers and plan for the battle to come.
Another device he can use, by getting Kang to summon it through time for him, would be his genetic disruptor. It is able to completely depower heroes including Sentry, Ares, Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, etc.
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New Avengers Vol. 1 #55-57
The best part is that it can be targeted so it only depowers some people - as you can see in the last panel, villains like the Wrecking Crew, etc. are not depowered by the device. This means that Iron Man can use this device to depower your entire team without affecting Thor on our team.
Kang can also teleport Tony's z-gas and stun guns, which were able to take down the Silver Surfer.
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Silver Surfer Vol. 1 #17
Since no one on your team has any sort of gas filters, these fumes should take them down as they did the Silver Surfer (who doesn't even need to breathe).
Kang can also teleport Tony's security systems, which fire immobilization rays powerful enough to capture the likes of Thor, Vision, and Iron Man himself.
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The Avengers #119
They should be more than powerful enough to capture your team as well.
Once all those devices are set up, there's just the final steps to our team's plan to worry about. Kang will summon an army of 20 Iron Man suits to the battlefield, which Tony can then control simultaneously, like this:
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New Avengers Vol. 1 Annual #1
Or this:
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Invincible Iron Man Vol. 2 #6
Then, Thor charges Tony and the armor army up with a couple lightning bolts to significantly increase their power levels. Kang also summons comm devices so the entire team can talk to each other remotely. Finally, Kang cloaks up the entire team and army, and Tony goes into phasing mode, to ensure that they won't be taken by surprise when the battle starts.
Mini-Counters:
I don't want to do too much countering in my opener, since it would be a bit unfair to you. However, there's a couple things I'd like to set straight.
I am not sure what prep you are planning though I can't think of anything Stark can do in an hour to stop my team. And time manipulation is banned so Kang loses his biggest ace
ET allowed me to use Kang's time manipulation to summon items.
Also you have stacked a super villain with two prominent Avengers. There's no in fighting but Stark or Thor and Kang are sure as heck not going to work in sync together to come up with a plan. That's another point you need to keep in mind.
This isn't true. Stark and Thor have actually worked with Kang in the past for various reasons, so while they won't be best of friends or anything, they will be able to work together competently.
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Avengers Vol. 4 #1-6
Kang went to them for help to stop Ultron so his younger self didn't break the timestream trying to stop Ultron. So they aren't against doing that.
I guess my members get to know each other better, formulate a battle plan, while H'el and Tangent Supes put their powers together to create a powerful protective forcefield around them.
If they all huddle together in a force-field, does that mean they won't be moving around from that single location?
As soon as the fight starts, H'el teleports Thor and Kang to the other side of the planet.
They have light speed travel; they'll be back in fractions of a second. Heck, Thor can travel even quicker than that (Thor #185). Furthermore, due to Kang's cloaking tech, H'el won't even know where my team is, so he can't teleport them anywhere.
Then they kill Stark in any number of ways. Black stops his heart, Harvey his brain, and H'el just rips him apart with TK while crushing his heart for good measure.
Telepathy and TK aren't going to work on Iron Man due to his telepathic and telekinetic countermeasures. Iron Man's telepathic tasers will one-shot Manchester Black the second he tries to use his telepathy. Also, Iron Man can use his phasing tech to make it impossible for any of your team to harm him.
Strategy:
Stark uses his genetic disruptor and/or sterile neutrinos to rob your entire team of their powers while we are cloaked. Once depowered, we can casually one-shot your team. If that doesn't work, the z-gas and immobilization systems will take care of your team while you can't even see or sense my team and their army. We won't even need to engage in an actual fight with your team.
It shows them all the possible futures but also shows them the strongest transmission (ie. which is more likely to happen). So they will know your entire team's powers and plan for the battle to come.
Ok.
With that knowledge, my team will know that they are facing 2 physical powerhouses, as well as 3 impressive telepaths/telekinetics.
I am not sure how this is going to work. I can get the "physical powerhouse" part, but how would they be sure of TP/TK? There can be many other ways to replicate the effects of TP/TK, like magic, energy manipulation, forcefields, etc.
Still, a relatively minor point.
They will also know that two of them are Kryptonians, who get their power from the sun.
Whoa whoa whoa, hang on there. Your guys are all from Marvel, how in the world would they know what a "Kryptonian" even is, let alone they get their power from the sun?
This point is moot unless you answer my previous question : How does Stark know what a Kryptonian is or their power source?
In any case, Tangent Superman isn't actually like a mainstream Kryptonian, he got his powers from a scientific experiment, so this won't work on him.
Another device he can use, by getting Kang to summon it through time for him, would be his genetic disruptor. It is able to completely depower heroes including Sentry, Ares, Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, etc.
Is this in character for him?
The best part is that it can be targeted so it only depowers some people - as you can see in the last panel, villains like the Wrecking Crew, etc. are not depowered by the device. This means that Iron Man can use this device to depower your entire team without affecting Thor on our team.
So I read the issues, and this thing is a gas which depowers on exposure. Our teams start a fair distance apart, has protective shields and my entire team will attack from range, so I don't think this will work in practice.
Also the specific targeting thing, the Wrecking Crew wasn't affected only because they showed up after the Avengers had been exposed to the gas. At least that's what I got from the issue. Any proof that it can be target specific?
Kang can also teleport Tony's z-gas and stun guns, which were able to take down the Silver Surfer.
These seem to be something specifically made to take down the Surfer.
Kang can also teleport Tony's security systems, which fire immobilization rays powerful enough to capture the likes of Thor, Vision, and Iron Man himself.
We have shields.
Once all those devices are set up, there's just the final steps to our team's plan to worry about. Kang will summon an army of 20 Iron Man suits to the battlefield, which Tony can then control simultaneously, like this:
Tangent Supes' TK is powerful enough to hijack GL rings.
If he can do that to GL rings, he will simply make Stark's suits kill each other.
More counters
If they all huddle together in a force-field, does that mean they won't be moving around from that single location?
They can move around if required, it's just added protection.
As soon as the fight starts, H'el teleports Thor and Kang to the other side of the planet.
They have light speed travel; they'll be back in fractions of a second. Heck, Thor can travel even quicker than that (Thor #185). Furthermore, due to Kang's cloaking tech, H'el won't even know where my team is, so he can't teleport them anywhere.
Since my entire team is FTL, that opening will be more than enough for us to take care of Stark.
All 3 of my members can telepathically detect you, and H'el can telekinetically sense anything within a 1000 mile radius.
Telepathy and TK aren't going to work on Iron Man due to his telepathic and telekinetic countermeasures. Iron Man's telepathic tasers will one-shot Manchester Black the second he tries to use his telepathy. Also, Iron Man can use his phasing tech to make it impossible for any of your team to harm him.
What about extremely precise internal TK attacks though? Stark isn't immune to internal attacks (I recall Sue Storm creating a bubble in his heart of the top of my head). Why can't Tangent Supes stop his thoughts like he did to Barry or Black give him a stroke like he did to Post crisis Superman? And does his suits have feats of resisting telekinesis on the combined level of H'el + Black + Harvey? Keep in mind these are all planetary telekinetics at the very least. I don't see why H'el can't simply tear the suit off his body.
I am not sure how this is going to work. I can get the "physical powerhouse" part, but how would they be sure of TP/TK? There can be many other ways to replicate the effects of TP/TK, like magic, energy manipulation, forcefields, etc.
I mean, Kang and Stark are both tactical geniuses. Considering they have access to the entire timestream - ie. the entire lives of your characters - I'm sure they can either figure it out, or overhear an instance where characters themselves refer to it as TP/TK. Here are a few instances where characters on your team refer to their psionic/mental abilities:
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Whoa whoa whoa, hang on there. Your guys are all from Marvel, how in the world would they know what a "Kryptonian" even is, let alone they get their power from the sun?
Well, they won't know what a Kryptonian is, but they can easily infer that H'el is powered by solar energy based on his interactions and backstory, while they view his past. For example, this interaction he had with Supergirl makes it clear that H'el absorbs solar energy:
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In any case, Tangent Superman isn't actually like a mainstream Kryptonian, he got his powers from a scientific experiment, so this won't work on him.
My bad in that case.
Is this in character for him?
Is it in character for Tony to use genetic depowering devices? Well, he usually doesn't have genetic disruptors on him, but when he had prep, he has used devices like this in the past. For example:
So I read the issues, and this thing is a gas which depowers on exposure. Our teams start a fair distance apart, has protective shields and my entire team will attack from range, so I don't think this will work in practice.
I'm not sure why you think it's a gas. Do you have any proof of that? I doubt it is a gas, considering that Iron Patriot's armor specifically says that an "unidentified environmental biorhythm" was detected right before the Dark Avenegrs were depowered. If it was a gas, then the Iron Patriot armor would have identified that there was a gas in the air. However, it clearly didn't know what was depowering the Avengers, showing it wasn't a gas.
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Even if it was a gas, it should work. It worked on multiple characters who don't need to breathe at all, like Sentry and Ms. Marvel, so the fact that H'el doesn't need air shouldn't stop it from working. Can your characters make shields which block gases? Furthermore, your protective TK shields aren't going to block air even if your characters can make shields like that - if they did, Manchester Black would suffocate and die, since he needs to breathe air to live. Clearly, the TK shields your team makes must allow air inflow.
Also the specific targeting thing, the Wrecking Crew wasn't affected only because they showed up after the Avengers had been exposed to the gas. At least that's what I got from the issue. Any proof that it can be target specific?
I'm still not sure why you think it's a gas. Anyways, that's clearly not it. The Wrecking Crew showed up after the New Avengers lost their powers, but the Dark Avengers showed up after the Wrecking Crew, but still ended up being affected. Later on, Dr. Harrow gives powers back to the Dark Avengers team, while keeping the New Avengers powerless - clearly showing that the effect can be targeted.
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These seem to be something specifically made to take down the Surfer.
Once again, this seems like a baseless assumption. Sure, Tony built them to take down Silver Surfer, but there's no proof that he was exploiting any specific weaknesses which Norrin may or may not have.
We have shields.
I don't think the shields will stop your team from being immobilized. Tony's armors themselves have shields/force-fields, as I'm sure you know, but they immobilized him regardless, by capturing him in a "bubble" of sorts that he couldn't escape. While the immobilization rays may not be able to break your team's shields or damage your team or anything, they can still immobilize your team members in that manner.
Battle Counters:
Tangent Supes' TK is powerful enough to hijack GL rings.
It seems like Tangent Supes used his TK to grab Guy Gardner's hand and forcibly move it and aim it to take out the other Green Lanterns that way, rather than hacking the actual tech, as evidenced by the narration on that page. None of the Iron Man drones will have a human operator, so TK like that wouldn't work.
Even if Tangent Supes was actually hacking the rings, do Green Lantern rings have any impressive hacking resistance/firewall feats to show that they are as hard (or harder) to hack than Iron Man's tech. The likes of Ultron have failed to properly hack Iron Man's technology....
Finally, does Tangent Supes have any feats of being able to use TK on objects he can't even detect (due to Kang's cloaking) or intangible objects (like Iron Man in his armor).
They can move around if required, it's just added protection.
So they will each have separate force fields?
Since my entire team is FTL, that opening will be more than enough for us to take care of Stark.
Does H'el have any feats of being able to teleport people he can't detect or sense in any way? How will your team take care of Stark when he has phasing tech that allows him to go intangible? Thor has FTL travel speed as well.
All 3 of my members can telepathically detect you, and H'el can telekinetically sense anything within a 1000 mile radius.
Stark has telepathic dampeners and telepathic tasers, as I showed in my opener. Since my team knows about your team's psionic powers, those will be turned on before the battle begins. So H'el won't be doing anything with his telepathy.
What about extremely precise internal TK attacks though? Stark isn't immune to internal attacks (I recall Sue Storm creating a bubble in his heart of the top of my head). Why can't Tangent Supes stop his thoughts like he did to Barry or Black give him a stroke like he did to Post crisis Superman? And does his suits have feats of resisting telekinesis on the combined level of H'el + Black + Harvey? Keep in mind these are all planetary telekinetics at the very least. I don't see why H'el can't simply tear the suit off his body.
Well, internal TK attacks won't work since I have composite Iron Man, and one of his armors had internal attack dampeners that could block even the Phoenix's TK - as I showed in my opener. Unless your team possesses more TK power than the Phoenix, they won't be able to overpower Stark's internal dampeners. The time Sue created a bubble in his heart might have been while he was wearing a different armor which didn't have internal dampeners. So it's not a relevant showing.
Furthermore, you've shown no proof that your team can use TK on my team when your team can't even detect my team. As for Stark specifically, he will be intangible, so unless there's proof that your team can attack intangible enemies, I don't see how you will even hurt him.
Conclusion:
There's nothing stopping the security rays from completely immobilizing your team, or the power disruptor from depowering your team, or the z-gas guns from one-shotting your team.
Your team has no way to detect my team, unless they have better senses than Silver Surfer.
Your team has no counter for my team's immense offensive power. Particularly, I don't see why Kang can't one-shot your team with anti-matter, for example. Thor's sheer striking power and lightning blasts will also put the hurt on your team, and even Iron Man will prove to be a huge threat since he has the base physicals of the WWH-buster (which temporarily matched WWH's striking power), further amped by absorbing lightning from Thor, and with versatile attacks like sonics. Is there anything stopping your team from just being one-shot by sonics?
Your team doesn't exactly have a way to hurt my team at all.
Overall, my team basically holds every advantage, which is why I think they would likely take the win in this battle.
I'm voting for @blackspidey2099. HIs arguments and counters were stronger, in my opinion (Not that Shirso's arguments/counters were not good, however)
I was pretty sold on BS's prep and strategy. Although Shirso has the "better" team, the prep and strategy that BS brought put the fight in his favour. Shirso probably would have benefited from a perk other than prep.
It sucks that neither of you made your last posts though.
I'm voting for for @blackspidey2099. One thing I noticed about Shirso's team pretty much all had TP/TK, which wasn't a very idea since Blackspidey's team had the means to make those attacks useless against them. Shirso didn't really seem to have any counter to things genetic disruptors and made several assumptions he couldn't prove(his plan of attack didn't seem very believable either).I would like to point out that Blackspidey's scan against Scarlet Witch and phoenix doesn't appear to show Iron Man resisting Jean's TK(it looks like the exact opposite of what is happening) but whatever.
@shirso: Just some advice for next time, I think you should have made your team more well rounded. Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea IMO(which seems to be what you did by having a team of people with telepathy/telekinesis). If you made a much more diverse team(abilities wise) chances are one of them will have something to help you in matches like this.
Shirso presented well, but in the counters didn't take into account a couple things BS had included and pointed out. Both well constructed, but BS had the better presentation and argument for abilities.
I agree a lot with Watcher, Shirso put all of his eggs in one basket and didn't really convince me his strategy was more sound then BS's, even though I did have a few problems with his as well. BS's prep was for the most part believable and seemed reasonable his team could pull it off. Overall, I have to give my vote to @blackspidey2099 for quite simply just showing the ability to deal with @shirso's team.
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