• 106 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Avatar image for vertigo-
#1 Edited by Vertigo- (17820 posts) - - Show Bio

SupremeGeneration & Krleavenger

  • Worldbreaker Hulk (Lightspeed perk)
  • 616 Quasar(TP/Soul immunity)
  • Team perk: Perfect teamwork

vs

Batman3000 & Revan2424

  • Composite Ben 10 (no alien X) (FTL perk)
  • Pre 52 Shazam (TP/Soul immunity)
  • Team perk: 1hour prep + basic knowledge

Da Rules

  • BFR is 15 seconds
  • No telefrag
  • No speed steal
  • No reality warping
  • Cloning limited to 3
  • Summons limited to 50
  • No summons above Venom (Brock)
  • Everyone gets standard gear
  • Fight takes place on a barren, indestructible planet

Avatar image for vertigo-
#4 Posted by Vertigo- (17820 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: your match has been edited with your change in character

Avatar image for vertigo-
#6 Edited by Vertigo- (17820 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for vertigo-
#9 Edited by Vertigo- (17820 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: nah, I'm sure everyone already knows who Quasar is. Or if they don't, your opener will introduce him to them

Avatar image for vertigo-
#11 Posted by Vertigo- (17820 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for revan-
#13 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for batman3000
#14 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for batman3000
#16 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for revan-
#17 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay I'll get my post up.

Avatar image for deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99
#21 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio

tag . . .

Avatar image for revan-
#22 Edited by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben Tennyson

No Caption Provided

Bio

Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson was a normal ten-year-old kid until he found the Omnitrix, a powerful watch-like device that allowed him to turn into ten different aliens. Though initially immature and clumsy, he grew to be a true hero. By the time he was sixteen, he had become famous in not only his hometown of Bellwood, but on Earth and beyond. Ben has also been deputized by the Plumbers and gained more aliens as time progressed

Paraphernalia

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8
Original Pre-Recalibration Omnitrix, Ben 10k Omnitrix, Post -Recalibration Omnitrix, Original Ultimatrix, Biomnitrix, Omnitrix, Ultimatrix,Null Void Projector, Hoverboard

Prep:

I'm Ben will turn into Atomic-X the alien from the Biomnitrix. He'll use his ability to teleport and go to the Plumber facility in Ben 10,000's timeline. When doing so he'll collect the Anihilargenesistoriafimiaorgost. A doomsday device that can destroy universes.

Plan:

Ben instantly turns into Clockwork. Clockwork will use his ability to slow time down as you can see here:

Loading Video...

(14:00) While combined with his speed perk he should be much faster than anyone. (Notice when he touched something it sped up with him)

And ben also use the biomnitrix. The biomnitrix gives him the ability to combine 2 aliens. He'll also combine with Feedback. Using the Anihilaarg he'll redirect the attack like this:

Loading Video...

Blasting you guys with a force that can destroy a universe.

Conclusions:

  • Ben is too versatile and hax
  • You have no way of countering Clockwork
  • Shazam may of other plans for prep (That may include the Godkiller *hint *hint)
Avatar image for revan-
#24 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for revan-
#26 Edited by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for laughingbatman
#27 Posted by laughingbatman (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

tag plz

Avatar image for deactivated-o78sdg008
#29 Posted by deactivated-o78sdg008 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

tag

Avatar image for lord-parallax
#30 Posted by Lord-Parallax (4503 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

Avatar image for revan-
#31 Edited by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: Not yet. My post should be finished by 7:00 EST

Avatar image for revan-
#33 Edited by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for supremegeneration
#34 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

@revan2424: Your Clockwork video. It's a whole episode. Have any clips, or the minute where the time-shenanigans start?

Avatar image for revan-
#35 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: That's odd. I put it in there at the timestamp. Regardless it starts at 14:00. I'll edit that in for voters.

Avatar image for supremegeneration
#36 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman3000: @krleavenger: @revan2424: Alright then:

No Caption Provided

Hulk... SMASH

Most people already know the Hulk and I genuinely doubt a solid intro is needed, so here's a basic quote to sum up the Jade Giant:

"Caught in the blast of gamma radiation, brilliant scientist Bruce Banner is cursed to transform in times of stress into the living engine of destruction known as The Incredible Hulk."

What did this immense amount of gamma radiation mean for "Puny Banner?" It granted him the following special

Abilities:

  • Super Stats
    • Speed, Durability, Strength, etc.
  • Healing Factor
  • Gamma Radiation

(C/Pd from an old debate of mine)

Before-We-Begin-Counters

I'm Ben will turn into Atomic-X the alien from the Biomnitrix. He'll use his ability to teleport and go to the Plumber facility in Ben 10,000's timeline. When doing so he'll collect the Anihilargenesistoriafimiaorgost. A doomsday device that can destroy universes.

Atomic-X? Is this in any way half Alien-X? B/c if so, you aren't allowed to use him. If it's not, ignore this part.

As for the next part; any feats of this Anhilia-thing actually destroying a universe, or is it just statements? Feats>Statements, otherwise I don't really see this happening... Not to mention, why would he even go get it? He doesn't know who he's facing, so it would be useless to bring such a powerful weapon (if it has the feats) to a random encounter. All he has is basic knowledge; a powerful green brute (whom he might confuse with Vilgax) and an energy manipulating badass.

Ben instantly turns into Clockwork. Clockwork will use his ability to slow time down as you can see here:

(14:00) While combined with his speed perk he should be much faster than anyone. (Notice when he touched something it sped up with him)

Is it really time slowed down, or are his thoughts sped up? It looks like the latter in the video, and I'd also note that the things being thrown at him aren't moving all that fast. Hulk here, thanks to a wonderful perk, is at the same speed Clockwork is. Assuming this ability works, there's another thing in that video the voters should see.

He said start at 14:00. Don't do that; go back and look from about 13:50. Clockwork literally whines about being hit on the head from a moving object thrown by that squid thing; damage that Hulk can more than easily replicate (I'll show that later).

And ben also use the biomnitrix. The biomnitrix gives him the ability to combine 2 aliens. He'll also combine with Feedback. Using the Anihilaarg he'll redirect the attack like this:

Blasting you guys with a force that can destroy a universe.

So he's going to combine Clockwork (someone easily susceptible to blunt force damage, as seen in the video you provided) with Feedback (I'm guessing some kind of energy absorber)? Not a bad combo, time slowing down and energy being redirected. However, is it really enough? I mean, you have to first prove that the Anihi-thingy can even destroy a galaxy!

Feats

Taking down Ben would be a lot easier than I thought.

No Caption Provided

In Hulk Smash Avengers #4, Joe Fixit Hulk was able to wrestle with and punch out Wonder Man, a solid class 90-100+. To my knowledge, the only alien that could MAYBE match GREY HULK on a physical scale would be like Ult. Humongosaur combined maybe w/ Four-Arms? Even then, this feat blows out all Ben's physical feats out of the water, and it's from one of Hulk's weakest incarnations. If you can somehow prove otherwise, I can debunk that too.

However, if you can prove that Clockwork's powers work in the way you say they do, Clockwork still gets beat up:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

The thunderclap! Most likely Hulk's most well-known and signature move, he's been able to cause devastation to just about anyone in the MU with this move. In your video, Clockwork was whining about being hit in the head with a pipe. Hulk not only exceeds that power, he makes it seem like a firecracker in comparison! It's an AoE move, so even with lightspeed and a slowed down move, he wouldn't be able to dodge it and would be instantly KO'd.

Conclusion

  • Clockwork gets KOd, by the video you yourself provided.
  • He wouldn't bring a universe-destroying device to a random encounter.
  • We'll deal with Shazam after his post.
Avatar image for revan-
#37 Edited by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for supremegeneration
#38 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: What so do I counter you or does Batman3000?

B3000 posts and counters if he wants, Krle posts, then you start the actual 1st round of the debate.

Avatar image for deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99
#40 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't believe he's really trying to bring the freaking Anihilaarg to the battle.lol

Avatar image for supremegeneration
#41 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for batman3000
#42 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for revan-
#43 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't believe he's really trying to bring the freaking Anihilaarg to the battle.lol

I can, and I will.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99
#44 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio
@jucaslucasa said:

I can't believe he's really trying to bring the freaking Anihilaarg to the battle.lol

I can, and I will.

No Caption Provided

Nah, the plan you posted here has more holes than Spongebob.

Avatar image for revan-
#45 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for batman3000
#46 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really want to get into counters just yet I'll save that for later.

Captain Marvel

No Caption Provided

I'm feeling lazy so for now I'll give you guys this xD

Loading Video...

Strength

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Beats on a monster who had absorbed the power of Superman, Aquaman, Elongated Man and The Martian Manhunter.

Holds his own against Superman in an arm wrestle at 1/3 power. Eventually Clark wins.
Holds his own against Superman in an arm wrestle at 1/3 power. Eventually Clark wins.
Punches so hard he mistakenly creates a black hole.
Punches so hard he mistakenly creates a black hole.

Mercury's Speed

Keeps up with Fire, Wonder Woman, Doctor Fate and Guy Gardner
Keeps up with Fire, Wonder Woman, Doctor Fate and Guy Gardner
Keeps up with Flash
Keeps up with Flash

Fairly brief but I wanted to only cover the things that would aid Billy in this fight and work off of there. Now I won't say Billy has the strength advantage at this point in the debate however when we go deeper into this debate I will identify more of Shazam's advantages. What to expect next post.

-Magic and it's role here

-More stats (namely durability)

-Fights with established fighters

- And of course counters

@krleavenger

Avatar image for blackspidey2099
#48 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6734 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for votes please!

Avatar image for sly_141
#49 Posted by Sly_141 (3216 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for krleavenger
#50 Posted by KrleAvenger (26076 posts) - - Show Bio

Wendell Elvis Vaughn - Quasar

No Caption Provided

And it's finally here. Time to use the all powerful former SHIELD Agents and a member of most powerful team of Super Heroes in the Cosmos, the Annihilators. I know that only hardcore fans of Marvel Cosmology are familiar with Wendell's character. And those people are rare to see on Vine and I don't think most voters nor my fellow debaters are aware of his history. So let me give you some info on him.

Intro

Actually I think the best way to introduce the character is to give you his bio from one of Marvel Guidebooks.

No Caption Provided

As you can see, it is more like you are reading someone's file about Wendell. That is pretty much his story and you have more info on him.

Powers and Abilities

Wendell's powers are coming from Quantum Bands, making Wendell one of the most powerful heroes in the Marvel Universe, on the same level as Silver Surfer actually. Here is a more detailed explanation on how Quantum Bands work and what they can actually do.

No Caption Provided

Thanks to my friend @blackestnight93 who organized this tourney, he allowed me to use feats from Wendell when he was a being of pure energy. Wendell did not have Quantum Bands at the time and was not as nearly as powerful as he is with them but he has some powers that will come in handy, and I am allowed to use both feats, with Quantum Bands and in his Energy Form.

==================================================================

Damage Output and Durability - Energy Projection And Quantum Aura

I know my teammate uses the most powerful Hulk ever. Of course, that Hulk unleashes powerful Gamma energy burst that desinegrates everything it's path and is a planetary thread. I will let @supremegeneration: talk about it as I am not sure how well your team can tank it. Still even tho Hulk is on my side, Gamma Burst will attack Wendell as well. Luckily for me, Wendell tanked way worse that that. Like when his constructs tanked blasts from Servitors without any damage. Those same weapons could hurt Thor pretty badly.

No Caption Provided

But this is not just there to prove Wendell's own teammate will hurt him. It is also here to prove how your team wont do shit to Quasar. Let me show you even more impressive feat, like when he tanked solar blast with the same size as medium yellow star.

No Caption Provided

To make this even more impressive, he did not only tank it. He, how should I say, "no-sell it". And this is during his earlier days when he was less experienced in using his powers. Now let's look at Wendell's fight with one and only Silver Surfer, the most powerful Herald of Galactus himself. The context is this fight will bring the balance between Order and Chaos and while Wendell was confused trying to figure out should he win or lose, Surfer was ready to go all out on him without jobbing or holding back (although not bloodlusted).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

And they were pretty even even tho Wendell wasn't really fighting as effectively as Surfer. Still he had enough damage output to hurt Surfer. And in chase you don't know, Surfer doesn't even feel Super Novas. If you want I will post scans of Surfer's durability but here, clearly they are giving problems to each other and this is durability feat as well. Surfer was fighting a lot of Heralds in his carrier and some of them destroyed Stars and Surfer still defeated them and could hurt them with his energy projection. Yet Wendell can tank is energy attacks without any damage (although he could still feel them). Now I'm not gonna lie, Wendell was defeated. BUT, the only reason why is because he find out that Chaos is becoming stronger while Order is becoming weaker and the source of it is Wendell, so to keep the balance of the Universe, "balanced", he allowed Surfer to beat him, so it is a non factor really.

===================================================================

Now that you know how much damage Wendell can tank as well as how much he can dish out, let's get into the argument. I don't want to mention Wendell's massive versatility until I get into counters. With that being said, let's get into the actual argument.

Countering Ben's Prep and Versatility

@revan2424:

I'm Ben will turn into Atomic-X the alien from the Biomnitrix. He'll use his ability to teleport and go to the Plumber facility in Ben 10,000's timeline. When doing so he'll collect the Anihilargenesistoriafimiaorgost. A doomsday device that can destroy universes.

As my teammate said, he has basic knowledge. Why would Ben take such a weapon? Also normally I would believe you but based on some flaws I see in this statement, I would actually prefer to see proof that Ben can actually use that weapon. Does Plumber facility even has it? I think you should prove it because based on a video you posted, it does not look like it belongs to the Plumbers. Even if you prove it, I still don't see the reason why Ben would bring such a destructive weapon against people he does not even know about. He has basic knowledge. I guess basic is enough to know World Breaker is a planet buster but Wendell, what could he know about Wendell? He is not that obvious. He is energy manipulator. Even if Ben will bring it, it does not look like a Doomsday device to me. Actually it looks like a device that creates Universes. And I know, creating something is way more impressive than destroying it (logically) but does it mean it has that damage output? To destroy the Universe? Because that explosion wasn't even on nuclear level and one of Ben's aliens I don't recognize with the combination of other aliens or whatever, contained it long enough to redirect it as an attack. I need some evidence to prove it can destroy the Universe, why Ben would bring it and can he even use it. But let's say all of this is true. It wont do him any good. Wendell has one weapon that could counter pretty much everything.

Cosmic Awareness

That's right. There is a point in time when his friend Richard Rider used Quantum Bands. At that time Wendell was in his Energy Form (which I can use). Rich encountered Ego The Living Planet. More Powerful than any Herald, including Surfer and Quasar. So, Wendell told Rich how to defeat it. How? He just knew it. Plain simple.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

In fact, I am certain Wendell will actually know what every alien Ben has is capable of which will allow him to counter it in some way. Look at Richard for example who is not very experienced with Quantum Bands yet he still created an army of duplicates of himself using Band's ability to create constructs. Yay, Larfleeze style. Even going as far as to make them powerful enough to distract Ego who is not only durable but has, as Wendell himself stated, better Cosmic Awareness than Wendell.

============================================================

So Wendell knows your weapon can destroy the Universe. What will he do about it? Well there is more stuff he can do. He is a former SHIELD Agent. Not only he has combat experience but he has experience with Universal Threats. He fought forces of the Cancerverse, Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet, Annihilation wave...and more. And he died only once (LMAO). But let me be more accurate. Well one of the stuff he can do is just kill Ben before he activates his weapon. Maybe just project his constructs into his brain?

No Caption Provided

It does not have to kill Ben. It can just knock him out. And that is only one way Wendell can take down Ben. He can just use his massive energy projection. I don't believe any alien Ben has ever tanked a super nova, even less a force that can hurt people who no-sell Super Novas like Silver Surfer.

Another counter for your "Universal Busting weapon" is to BFR your weapon into the Quantum Zone or any other place in the Universe.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here you actually see him using BFR. I am pretty sure I am allowed to BFR your weapon. Wendell can use his massive speed with the combination of Cosmic Awareness and Teleportation to BFR it in Quantum Zone or another Universe. Or sent himself into another Universe as well as the Hulk if BFR is not allowed (if you want I can post scans of Wendell doing it), to avoid the attack and then come back easily. His energy tracking is top tier. He could even track Oblivion.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

=====================================================================

Also unless Atomic-X doesn't have any ability that comes to the close of level of Alien X (as he is 50% Alien X) you are not allowed to use him.

=====================================================================

Ben instantly turns into Clockwork. Clockwork will use his ability to slow time down as you can see here:

Slow down time? Mate that ability would be effective if it is actually impressive. That ability isn't gonna slow down Wendell considering the fact how that ability does not operate on any level close to being impressive when your up against team of powerhouses like these. Sorry for my harsh words but Ben is not slowing time that much, at all. Wendell on the other hand operates on span of Nanosecond which is largest speed you can ask for if you don't want to go to Barry Allen/Wally West Levels.

No Caption Provided

It may slow him down by 0. something% but considering the fact that falling objects are still clearly moving, I don't think this way Ben will be any faster than MCU Quicksilver.

(14:00) While combined with his speed perk he should be much faster than anyone. (Notice when he touched something it sped up with him)

Again not really. World Breaker has light speed perk and anyone who operates on the level of nanoseconds as light travels one foot per nanosecond and Wendell can already change his body structure in that time period from energy into matter as you can see above.

And ben also use the biomnitrix. The biomnitrix gives him the ability to combine 2 aliens. He'll also combine with Feedback. Using the Anihilaarg he'll redirect the attack like this: Blasting you guys with a force that can destroy a universe.

This post is already to long so I'll get into why none of your energy attacks or abilities will work against Quasar on my next post. Unless of course, they are Galaxy Level which I doubt they are. And you still have to provide some evidence for your point.

====================================================================

Why Wendell beats Ben

  • You have to prove that device can destroy the Universe.
  • You have to prove Plumbers have it.
  • You have to explain why Ben will bring such a powerful weapon (if it is capable of busting the Universe in the first place).
  • Even if you prove everything above, Wendell has counter for your weapon and has counter for Clockwork.
  • I don't see why any aliens are effective against Wendell. Alien-X is not allowed and Atomic-X should not be allowed either.
  • Wendell is too powerful, more destructive, more durable, more versatile and has counter for your Hax. Can't say the same for Ben.

Countering Billy's Strength and Power

@batman3000: Hey mate, nice seeing you using a powerhouse for once LMAO. Anyway let's do this. I will counter some of your scans but mostly I wont post any feats for Wendell (maybe one or two) but you want to see what Wendell is capable of, read everything I posted above. So, let's see what DC's Earth's Mightiest Mortal has to offer against Marvel's Protector of the Universe.

================================================================

Beats on a monster who had absorbed the power of Superman, Aquaman, Elongated Man and The Martian Manhunter.

I am pretty sure none of these characters were as powerful then as they are in later years of Post-Crisis continuity. Espeically Superman who has gone through two upgrades in power since his death and based on the art, this happened before. Anyway, it is a high end feat in my opinion and I don't think Shazam is as strong as the MMH, even less MMH + Superman + Aquaman + Elongated Man.

Holds his own against Superman in an arm wrestle at 1/3 power. Eventually Clark wins.

I don't remember Superman ever lifting the planet on his own. His best planetary feat is holding it with Hal Jordan but that is after his training with Mongul which happened long after his death. That Superman never preformed a planetary feat of strength and considering that his Post-Two Upgrades Version could not preform one on his own, I don't see that feat being that impressive. Even if Shazam lost 66.7% of his power.

Punches so hard he mistakenly creates a black hole.

I have two problems with that scan. One, how could I calculate it? If I can't that is just one of those crazy feats with zero context and explanation, like Superman closing reality hole with heat vision or Hercules lifting Heavens. Two, it's not canon. I don't remember the name of the story but I know it is not canon. I will try to find evidence later but still even if it is, we can't calculate that feat and Shazam never consistently punched so hard to create a black hole.

Keeps up with Fire, Wonder Woman, Doctor Fate and Guy Gardner

Impressive feat but it is travelling speed. It wont be very useful here is my opinion. Besides, Wendell can travel much faster than light and enter in hyperspace which is something I don't think Shazam can do. Not that it matters either way but for the sake of the argument here is Wendell saying how he just came back from Hyperspace.

No Caption Provided

===============================================================

Keeps up with Flash

Ok I see it is another travel speed feat but it is impressive I guess considering the fact that had a conversation plus they were changing directions very fast. The problem is, at the time this comic came out, Wally was afraid of replacing Barry and restrained himself and his speed. He was holding back a lot and I don't remember him ever going faster than Super Sonic until Mark Waid took over the series and introduced us to the Speed Force. Thing is, this scan actually shows us that Shazam can fly at Super Sonic speeds and easily change direction.

================================================================

I'm not gonna get into why I think Quasar beats Shazam because you yourself said that you only wanted to give us an idea on how powerful Shazam is. Thing is, I have problems with scans you posted for reasons mentioned above but I'm ready for you to prove me wrong. However you will have to check out my scans above and counter them to prove Billy has a chance against Wendell. With that being said...

Time for Round 2!!!