High Tier Amalgam Tourney: Beta vs Maestro

@betatesthighlander1

BUILD: The Ultimate Warrior

Body: Forgotten One

Mind: Best Tiger

Power: Ultraman

Gear: Mjolnir

vs

• Body: Composite Hank Henshaw
• Mind: Composite Virgo Saint
• Powers: Mu Siyun
• Gear: The Helmet of Fate

Rules

• AP/Strength/Durability are all limited at planet busting(think Earth, no higher). Hax follows the same limit in being planet level
• Speed is limited to low end FTL(no more than 10x FTL).
• You don’t get to use the mind of the body you choose, or Vice versa. This logic extends to powers/gear.
• No reality warping, no power copying, and no amping above the limits of power and speed. Anything else is fine
• Lastly must have at least 500 posts to participate or done a CaV/tourney before.
• Takes place in a solar system like ours with no one else but the fighters in it

TAEP

@betatesthighlander1 Do you want to go first or shall I?

TAEP

@maestromage: you can if you want.

taep.

also taep for @shirso iirc, he asked in the main thread (mb otherwise).

T4V

@maestromage: would you rather I go first? I could if ya want me to.

@betatesthighlander1: No that's fine, I should have my opener up today

Doctor Virgo // The Man Closest to God

"Knowledge & vision arose in me: 'Unprovoked is my release. This is the last birth. There is now no further becoming'."

First Sutra | Metal Machinations

The physical prowess of the Cyborg Superman is simple to demonstrate. He was able to destroy a decent sized planet over a period of time in his attempts to recreate Warworld as seen above and is consistently able to tank attacks from his peers on top of things like being able to withstand the pressure of a black hole. His speed is similarly impressive, as he's fast enough to hold his own against Superman Blue, the same Blue who can zip across continents in milliseconds and is confirmed to be FTL, putting him comfortably at or near the limits for this tourney. His mechanical body has added benefits, from his senses to his regeneration, but more importantly, it acts as the perfect vessel for Mu's powers.

Mu ordinarily fights using various different soul soldiers, but due to the rules, Doctor Virgo won't have access to them here. Instead, he'll have to rely on Henshaw for his technomorphing shenanigans and various powers, something his body is perfect for. His powers are numerous but some of his most used ones are shown above. He can transmute opponents and invade their souls and can read biological data in order to create a sound wave that will shatter their bodies without harming his allies. He later takes this even further, spawning micro black holes with pinpoint precision to take out his enemies. He can also

Second Sutra | The Saint of Order

The Helmet of Fate is the key piece of gear used by Dr Fate, one that grants the user incredible magical, cosmic, elemental and atomic power. The helmet (usually) houses Nabu, an incredibly powerful Lord of Order whose power the helmet channels. The capabilities of the Fates are vast as the helmet allows its users to manipulate almost anything you can think of. Matter, minds, energy, time, space, dimensions; you name it, a Fate has probably done it. The benefits of this are obvious, as it greatly improves Dr Virgo's versatility and allows him to cope with most of the things this tourney will throw at him. That said, at the end of the day, all of these powers are only as good as their user (Read Manga Collages Right to Left).

So it's a good thing I took a Saint then. For those unfamiliar, Saints are the highly skilled warriors of Athena, warriors so skilled that they can focus their internal energy or Cosmo to perform superhuman feats and split atoms apart, as Marin explains above. This atomic destruction is the bare minimum requirement of being a saint, more skilled users can use their energy to do almost anything, from telekinesis and temperature manipulation to soul destruction and telepathy. Perhaps most notably of all, however, is that the same technique doesn't work twice on a Saint. This is something that is both stated and shown across the various SS series... a lot. But I'm not just using any Saint here, oh no; I'm using a Gold Saint, the Saints who are beyond heads and shoulders above the Bronze and Silver Saints who do everything else I've mentioned here. Saints who take this adaptation so far that they can outright outdo omniscience. They are irrefutably in a completely different league. And I'm not even using any old Gold Saint. I'm using Virgo Shaka, or rather a composite of all those who go on to take his role, aka the man closest to god.

Shaka is a top tier even amongst top tiers, as shown no clearer than the above, his 1 vs 3 battle against Camus Shura and Saga, each of whom is a highly skilled and competent gold saint in their own right, with each possessing their own unique hax ability, something Shaka also possesses. The skills of the Virgo Saints generally involves various attacks and defences that require no movement and the pinnacle of these involves the ability to remove your senses, up to and including extrasensory senses, or to remove your soul entirely, doing so on what's effectively a planetary scale.

Third Sutra | A Simple Battle

From what I can tell, this battle should be a simple one. Dr Virgo simply stops time and then spawns a black hole in the Ultimate Warrior's head or turns them into a vegetable, literally or figuratively.

@delein: @ultraphoenix: @naronu: @mdemocracy: @betatesthighlander1: @shirso My opener is up

@maestromage: clean, concise yet detailed opener. Nice job.

@maestromage:

Okay, as far as black holes go...if you are on the event horizon of a black hole, you don't experience planet-level weight. You experience infinite weight. The ability to withstand infinite weight is above the limit of this tourney, (which is somewhere in the planet level range).

Are you showing the black hole feats specifically as something you consider unquantifiable, or specifically as something you consider an outlier, or as something that supersedes tourney limits?

Also, time stop...what range are you claiming that has and what are you basing the range on?

@betatesthighlander1:

Okay, as far as black holes go...if you are on the event horizon of a black hole, you don't experience planet-level weight. You experience infinite weight.

That is incorrect. Black holes only technically have "infinite gravity" at the singularity inside the event horizon, and that's not because they actually have infinite mass, it's just because what mass they have is infinitely dense at that one point and nowhere else.

Are you showing the black hole feats specifically as something you consider unquantifiable, or specifically as something you consider an outlier, or as something that supersedes tourney limits?

Neither? If you mean Henshaw I showed that as an example of hax resistance, and if you mean Mu then a black hole at the size I showed would actually be around planetary in mass/total gravity, i.e. in limits.

Also, time stop...what range are you claiming that has and what are you basing the range on?

I didn't. But I asked the host and we start 100m away from each other so I fail to see why it matters.

Also if you wanna know more about Black Holes you should check these guys out, they have a few videos on them and they're all pretty good.

So for Henshaw, in no uncertain terms, you in no way meant the black hole feat to have anything to do with durability? Because you said "pressure of a black hole" and pressure would be conventional durability. Do you consider "pressure" hax?

For Mu, you are saying that those are planetary-mass black holes? Based on what?

Because if the range is beyond planetary it's against the rules. And I am not interested in debating with cheaters.

@betatesthighlander1:

So for Henshaw, in no uncertain terms, you in no way meant the black hole feat to have anything to do with durability? Because you said "pressure of a black hole" and pressure would be conventional durability. Do you consider "pressure" hax?

Please don't take what I said out of context. The "pressures" of a black hole are being spatially ripped apart, which is the point of the feat.

For Mu, you are saying that those are planetary-mass black holes? Based on what?

Maths.

Because if the range is beyond planetary it's against the rules. And I am not interested in debating with cheaters.

Why accuse me of cheating for no reason? I said nothing that would even imply that this is above planetary, nor does the feat I show have anything that would indicate as such. It was literally Khalid stopping time for a crowd so that he wouldn't be seen putting on the helmet.

First of all, "pressures" means pressures. it does not mean "hax". So, if you are describing things besides pressures, you should not say "pressures"

Anyway, you are ripped apart by gravity when you enter a black hole. I mean there's also time dilation but any "pressure" would be conventional Pressure. It's immense force but it's still just force.

But to be absolutely clear, you do not in any way think that is a conventional durability feat? I asked you last post and you did not answer. I don't know why you are being difficult about that.

Okay, are you going to share those maths or do you plan on keeping the to yourself?

I didn't accuse you of cheating for a fucking second. You said "I fail to see why it matters" so I explained why it matters. I have a question relating to the rules that I am asking you because I am not interested in debating people who disregard the rules.

1. What is the range of the timestop?

2. What is your evidence for that range?

@betatesthighlander1:

First of all, "pressures" means pressures. it does not mean "hax". So, if you are describing things besides pressures, you should not say "pressures"

Okay, but I clarified what I mean by the feat so I don't know why you're still asking.

But to be absolutely clear, you do not in any way think that is a conventional durability feat? I asked you last post and you did not answer. I don't know why you are being difficult about that.

I don't because it's not. There's nothing conventional about how a black hole would affect your body if you fell in one.

Okay, are you going to share those maths or do you plan on keeping the to yourself?

I am not.

I didn't accuse you of cheating for a fucking second. You said "I fail to see why it matters" so I explained why it matters. I have a question relating to the rules that I am asking you because I am not interested in debating people who disregard the rules.

1. What is the range of the timestop?

2. What is your evidence for that range?

Are you asking me again or are you just annoyed? Because I answered this already. He froze the area around him because... that's what he was doing. The very scan I linked showed him referencing superheroes looking for a phone booth to get changed in, which he cannot do. So he instead stops time so no one will see him get changed. I still fail to see what part of any of this would lead you to even consider that this is somehow beyond planetary but you do you.

Okay, I am leaving the rest of this out for the moment because only this paragraph really matters.

I have a very large problem with being blatantlylied to like that. You did not approach answering my question at a single point in this entire thread.

I don't know if you are a cheater but you are very clearly a liar. Because you are telling me you answered a question when the entire thread is right above us and we can plainly see you didn't answer at all.

my two questions are

1. What is the range of the timestop?

2. How do you know the range?

you have come nowhere close to answering these questions. Regardless of my personal problems with you blatantly lying to me and saying you answered questions you have come nowhere near answering, the questions do need an answer.

A "range" would be expressed in spatial units. Meters, square meters, cubic meters, something like that.

What is the range of the timestop, and how do you know what the range is?

You're not sharing them or you're not keeping them to yourself? This is literally the least informative answer you could have given to the question I asked. Although I suppose it is technically an answer, so its a lot more than you gave for the timestop range question.

@betatesthighlander1: @maestromage: alright that’s enough. These questions could’ve been asked in an actual post as you prove why you could/couldn’t win. It’s your turn to post Beta

@thewatcherking: Okay do you really care about the rules of your tourney or not?

I came into this assuming that there would be limits on certain powers based on the rules set up in the OP. Are you interested in keeping those rules or not?

If you are allowed to just flagrantly break the rules willy nilly I wouldn't have joined this tourney because that would be really boring and meaningless to me.

The rules say that reality warping, power copying and amping above the stat limits aren’t allowed. And that otherwise anything goes, so pretty much anything is allowed with hax following the same limits as power being planet level.

If you have something to post that proves Maestro is breaking some rule then go ahead and do so, or you can drop because your team wasn’t strong enough for this tourney. I don’t care which, but accusing someone of cheating and trying to get them to prove it solely because you can’t compete is a terrible look.

yes I know that. And then time stop was introduced. And that very clearly broke the rules.

Most time stop powers do not have a given range for how far time is stopped, and therefor would be above planet level, and therefore would not fit into the rules of this match.

So I asked how the timestop fit into the rules. What should have followed would be an explanation for how. Instead, the question was deflected and @maestromage he would just blatantly lie about having answered the question instead of actually answering it.

I can't prove the range of that timestop. So I asked what the range was. And I didn't get an answer.

Any time stopping power either

A: has a range that can be illustrated

or

B: does not have a range that can be illustrated.

I didn't read whatever manga is being referenced here, I don't even know what manga it is. So I asked for specifications.

I mean I guess the evidence is that @maestromage chose to not answer and then lie about answering rather than give a range. This suggests, in my opinion, that he knows it goes beyond planetary.

So yeah, I'm going to say that in his first post he flagrantly violated the rules. universal time stop is beyond planetary. and timestop is, by default, universal.

If you don't give a shit about the rules of your tournament I guess it's my fault for entering and assuming you would.

But as things have been presented, @maestromage appears to flagrantly admit to breaking the rules in his first post.

Oh god

I never accuse him of lying about the range. I accused him of lying about answering my question. You are directly lying to me about what I said, which seems pretty heavily biased here.

So, I do have to ask: why do you feel it is appropriate to lie to me about what I said? because you did blatantly lie.

Also, in those PMs you linked, you did not say power limits, you said range limits.

If you understand asking for clarification...why are you criticizing me for asking for clarification? I never got an answer. Are you saying I am allowed to ask for clarification once, and when the question is completely unanswered I have to just accept it?

Also

just in terms of what I can objectively prove, time stop would necessarily break other rules in this tourney.

Speed is defined as distance over time. Therefor if you moved in no time, you would be traveling at infinite velocity (well, technically undefined, but for all intense and purposes infinite)

Therefor if you moved when the time was stopped, you would increase your velocity to infinite times lightspeed which would be faster than what is allowed in this tournament.

So timestop is amping yourself beyond tournament limits. By the rules you posted in your tournament, it necessarily would not be allowed.

@betatesthighlander1: That’s Enough. The Host has already asked you to make a decision. One that did not include continuing to try and argue with him. If you continue to disregard his decision and blatantly derail the thread with this ,I will take action myself. And I can assure you, you do not want that.

@betatesthighlander1: @maestromage: okay this is over, beta is out and Maestro gets a reserve.

wow.

@darthjhawk:

He said if I had something that proved Maestro was breaking some rule, I was allowed to post it. that was one of my 2 options.

The rules of this tournament say "no amping above the limits of power and speed"

I feel like I have pretty solid proof that timestop amps somebody above the limit for speed.

If you feel like I need to reformat it or something that's fine, I will gladly do so. But he gave me two options and I chose option one, to prove Maestro broke the rules.

Am I allowed to take the first option he offered? if so, how would you like me to format it?

@betatesthighlander1: It seems like Watcher has declared you out anyway. So if you have further issues, I suggest you dm him. I won’t allow any more derailment on this thread. If you choose to respond from here on in, take it to a DM/PM.