Hickman's Avengers , Fantastic Four and Ultimates vs Uncanny X-Men

@the_living_tribunal_24: Im saying that as Spectrum was about to open up Jeans cocoon, Jean subconsciously turned off Spectrums powers (well, she reflected Spectrums attack and turned her physical), it happened in Avengers 263.

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@the_living_tribunal_24: “again you go to stories where prevelant characters are jobbed, gladiator the same gladiator that wrecked vulcan the same vulcan that was easily trolling rachel.”

1) There not my stories. They are from Trial of Jean Grey.

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2) It’s been pointed out that Jean is above Rachel. So, you can’t use Rachel as an example of why Jean loses.

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3) You tell me who has a greater mind, Thor or the Phoenix Force?

@pyrofn: Oh I know all Jean. Along with Storm she is my favorite x person. Jean is the strongest Telapath there is other then possibly Nate. And she most definitely is a factor the biggest with TP. Aliens copying powers isn't the same as the originals. Thing isn't in the same tier as Thor would wreck him. Hulk is just a brute Thor has a plethora of Powers. Binary isn't really planet level, her one feat has context admit was a chain reaction she caused. Even if Jean uses BFR wouldn't really work on Thor as he can telaport and fly. Avengers Thor also is always needed for storyline. But again If the x men win, it will be Magneto Using his sheilds protecting, Jean so she can utilize her Telapathic abilities that really would give Thor a hard challenge. Spectrum though will be the hardest challenge for Jean or anyone else. She's much faster then anyone here and had the power to stop anyone here other then magneto who again is the problem. Now I've stated how I see the xmen winning as that is a possibility. Magik also is a wild card who can save the x men But the Avengers also win here. Thor again has so many attacks that would wreck the x men. If this was bloodlusted Thor would wrek most. But in character I think we're forgetting to remember Sue Invisible woman who like Magento sheild her team, on top of Reese's GENUIS. Blue marvel, Thor and Hyperion will all be big threats, starbrand, and binary, and Spectrum, I just don't see the majority of the x team overcoming that much of a power misbalance.... Except the secnario mentioned

@pyrofn: at no point did I say the story was yours, I fully know it was written by bendis who destroyed the gotg and the defenders. No I'm still arguing that Rachel isn't beating thor. We only got into terrax territory because you mentioned his jobbing anti-feats.

@the_living_tribunal_24: Okay. I had to reread the comment. That was my mistake. Point one is retracted.

Bendis is known for his screw uping history, I’ll give ya that. Needless to say, he didn’t misconstrue this piece of history. He was only adding an ability that got abused to a large extent that it can be considered op under the right circumstances, particularly with powerful psychics and not-so power non-psychics in an area for Jean to draw upon. Bendis establishes a baseline that with one psychic present and a grip of non-psychics, Teen Jeans power increase was comparable to Gladiator. And it isn’t a long process as we saw her capable of keeping pace with a bloddlusted Gladiator trying to blitz her every chance he got. Bull-crap? Maybe, but canon nonetheless. Needless to say, this ability wasn’t simply forgotten, but rather, Bendis made use of it a couple of times and then it gets picked up by Bunn, establishing that Teen Jean does in fact make use of it and it isn’t simply a PIS stunt she pulls when the plot demands of it. (Though it is the most impressive in those instances) Example: In X-Men: Blue, Teen Jean uses this ability to break through boarded up doors casually.

Yeah, I realize why we were in Terrax territory. I simply was moving along that Rachel is but one aspect of the battle. Not a deciding factor, since destiny adamantly put Thor and Spectrum as one of the deciding factors with Magneto and Magik on the otherside. Meanwhile, they brush off the telepaths as if they weren’t as big of a deal as they really are, which usually happens when we come to speed-blitzing and hyped characters. My goal was to prove the legitimacy of Rachel being capable of fighting someone near Thor’s level so as to establish that it is entirely believable that Rachel could fight Thor at her current levels. Does it guarantee a win? Not necessarily, but past history works in Rachel’s favor if two writers agree on the same outcome. If they contradicted each other, my argument would’ve fallen apart and I wouldn’t have even bothered.

@destinyman75: Don’t forget strength in numbers. Even with an army on the Avengers side to meet the X-Men, there are still strategies and targets to choose. Given that there are so many X-Men and how the telepaths have the luxury of broadcasting their thoughts and everyone thoughts in seconds where the other team has to convey their plans verbally, it slows down the process for speedsters like Spectrum who need targets. Not only that, but if left to their own devices, they would most likely ignore the little guys and focus on the big bad looking ones or ones with reputation like Wolverine, Colossus, Magneto, or Emma Frost. Obscure one or underestimated ones are hardly factored in by anyone other than the strategists and geniuses like Tony Stark, Reed Richards, and Captain America.

Jesus too many factors

Bump