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#1 Posted by P00TY (4188 posts) - - Show Bio
Hercules lifts the heavens
Hercules lifts the heavens
Thor is given the gravitational pull of a neurtron star. But still bust out
Thor is given the gravitational pull of a neurtron star. But still bust out
WW keeps MM from being pulled into a black hole.
WW keeps MM from being pulled into a black hole.

Rank these ambiguous feats from 1-3. Number 1 being the best strength feat. Number 3 is the weakest feat.

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#2 Edited by TheKinfing (8419 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman.

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#3 Edited by Marishtar (592 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty:

Hmmm i'm actually pretty sure someone could calculate Thor's and Wondy's feats, just Herc's is eh well...

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#4 Edited by Lord_Spectrum (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules.

He lifted the weight of the entire universe.

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#5 Posted by BruceRogers (9972 posts) - - Show Bio

Assuming we take the feats here at face value, I would say Hercules.

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#6 Posted by ThunderPrince (1393 posts) - - Show Bio

Assuming we take the feats here at face value, I would say Hercules.

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#7 Posted by Marishtar (592 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by Aatroxxx (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules

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#9 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (9636 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by All-Father (2399 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Edited by BabyDarkseid (547 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by Revan2424 (4396 posts) - - Show Bio

The first one isn't really quantifiable.

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#14 Posted by zackg (374 posts) - - Show Bio

@marishtar: But he is. The Heavens quite literally encompasses everything.

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#15 Posted by Cosmic_Broski (239 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Hercules

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#16 Posted by DankmanJack (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules ftw

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#17 Posted by jashro44 (43361 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules feat cannot be quantified. Breevort has stated thor's feat is probably hyperbole which makes sense. I don't know the context of wonder womans feat but if that is an actual black hole I say her feat is better. All though if we assume Thor's feat isn't hyperbole it might be a bit more impressive.

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#18 Posted by kgb725 (15142 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc realistically

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#19 Posted by Marishtar (592 posts) - - Show Bio

@zackg:

Herc anywhere even just close to lifting a Solar system would be already an absolutely crazy outlier, lifting the universe would be the freaking philosopher's stone equilant under the outliers.

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#20 Posted by highaccuser (30918 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman.

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#21 Posted by zackg (374 posts) - - Show Bio

@marishtar: Why? Because he's only shown that level of strength once? Then pretty much every high tier character is less than planet level. If you want to pull that bs than Wonder Woman's feat is an outliner too.

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#22 Edited by KingGuinness (76 posts) - - Show Bio

I have no clue why people find Hercules's feat so hard to quantify. In greek mythology all Atlas supported was the sky, not the universe. The term "heavens" was synonymous with sky and the easiest way or quantity the feat is to figure out how much Earth's atmosphere weighs which according to Wikipedia is around five quadrillion tons.

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#23 Posted by God_of_Batman (1767 posts) - - Show Bio

@zackg said:

@marishtar: Why? Because he's only shown that level of strength once? Then pretty much every high tier character is less than planet level. If you want to pull that bs than Wonder Woman's feat is an outliner too.

It's not that he only shows that high level of strength once, it's that he has struggled to complete strength feats which are heaps less impressive.

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#24 Posted by Tedirey (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

Earth's sky and a neutron star can't resist the pull of a black hole.

Diana not only resisted one but even managed to PULL J'onn out of it's event horizon.

Diana has the better strength feat.

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#25 Posted by Tedirey (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

I have no clue why people find Hercules's feat so hard to quantify. In greek mythology all Atlas supported was the sky, not the universe. The term "heavens" was synonymous with sky and the easiest way or quantity the feat is to figure out how much Earth's atmosphere weighs which according to Wikipedia is around five quadrillion tons.

This.

Come on people, go research some more on Greco-Roman mythology.

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#26 Posted by Helloman (7574 posts) - - Show Bio

1 Wonder Woman

2 Hercules

3 Thor

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#27 Posted by green_skaar (10535 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules, WW, Thor

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#28 Edited by BruceRogers (9972 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingguinness: Honestly though, does he really look he is lifting the sky or the Earth's atmosphere to you?

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#29 Edited by Causeimbatman (447 posts) - - Show Bio

WW

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#30 Posted by APEX_pretador (12741 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: Well, we can't calculate herc's feat, but we can calculate Diana's and Thor's feat by calculating with an average BH and NS

@p00ty:

Thor's feat:

Resists and overpowered the pull equivalent to the gravity of neutron star = g (neutron star)/ g (earth) x weight of Thor = about 122.44 billion tonnes.

Thor did an equivalent of lifting 122 billion tonnes of weight

Wonder Woman's feat:

Catches Martian manhunter and stops him from falling into black hole.

However, MMH is stronger than her in physical strength and while alone he couldn't escape, with the help of wonder woman, he did it, so I am going to say she applied about 30% of the force needed.

g (Black Hole) / g (earth) x weight of MMH = about 204.55 billion tonnes

30% of that = about 61 billion tonnes

Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter combined did an equivalent of lifting 204 billion tonnes and if we assume Diana's contribution was 30% of that would be lifting 61 billion tonnes.

.

So, it turns out that pulling MMH was harder than Thor breaking free, but, when we consider the fact that it wasn't dead weight that Diana was pulling, but massively superhuman MMH who himself also tried (but was falling short of) breaking free, Thor's feat comes out twice as better as Diana's

@jashro44 said:

Hercules feat cannot be quantified. Breevort has stated thor's feat is probably hyperbole which makes sense. I don't know the context of wonder womans feat but if that is an actual black hole I say her feat is better. All though if we assume Thor's feat isn't hyperbole it might be a bit more impressive.

See above, Thor's feat does come out a bit better than Diana's, though both are about large mountain/city-level of strength, not particularly outliers.

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#31 Posted by Turr (220 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman > Thor > Hercules

WW and Thors feats are actually calculable into physical strenght, and Wonder Woman stomps, since black hole has gravity so immense, not even light can escape it, while neurtron star is heavy, but light can still reflect from it or even be emmited by it just fine - proving it's far from being comparable to black hole.

Hercules feat is just... meh. I mean obviously you can't really lift a universe since it doesn't need lifting to exist or float in space. So Hercules doesn't really lift anything there, at least not physically. This can be considered a mystical/magical feat of some sort, but physical strenght? Not really.

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#32 Edited by LDM (2010 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc cause it looks cool

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#34 Posted by APEX_pretador (12741 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

I would like to see someone calculating that Wonder Woman feat

I just did

I am pretty sure that the strength of black hole's gravitational pull can't be measured.

It can be, it is just that nothing can fly out of it with speed alone, if that speed is less than c.

As for Thor's feat, it is a hyperbole. And I'm not saying that because of Thor's lack of consistent showing on that level,

Thor lacks consistent showings to say he can't lift 122 billion tonnes?

but because of the whole nature of that statement.

Even if we ignore the fact that Brevoort likes to say lot of ridiculous things like claiming Silver Surfer is slower than Wolverine and spiderman, and HotU isn't canon (despite it being referenced like thrice in canon), he did say "that's akin to neutron, not real neutron star, we used it as a comparison", and I believe that he means to say Thor was not subjected to actual neutron star, but the force he was subjected to, was similar to the gravitational pull he would have undergone if he was standing on a neutron star.

You know, Neutron stars and black holes are just super-massive celestial bodies just like earth or sun.

Even Tom Brevoort stated it is not actually akin to a neutron star.

Except he said it is akin to neutron star, but not just the same thing.

Yes, I am not a fan of using writer's/artist's/editor's words as an argument, but I think this one proves my point even further about that statement being hyperbolic and being used as a comparison only, just because it is THAT IMPRESSIVE. How much? Well will never know

Well, what I said just alignes perfectly well with brevoort's statement.

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#35 Posted by blackpantherisb (3330 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman's.

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#37 Posted by P00TY (4188 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: MM doesn't appear to be helping at all. He's dangling. He's not in a support position. In fact in the previous scan you see him helplessly being swallowed. I think she did did the majority if not all the work.

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#38 Posted by green_skaar (10535 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate deconstructing artists renditions in comics too much. If we want to get too technical, the scan of Wonder Woman can't be a black hole, since after all it's visible...and black holes aren't visible ergo their name.

@p00ty said:

@apex_pretador: MM doesn't appear to be helping at all. He's dangling. He's not in a support position. In fact in the previous scan you see him helplessly being swallowed. I think she did did the majority if not all the work.

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#39 Posted by P00TY (4188 posts) - - Show Bio

@green_skaar: Comics have to show pictures. We always see Invisible Woman, Spectrum in light form, Flash at light speed. But facial expressions, body position can give an idea of what is happening.

Example: when they tried to move the Earth. You can't determine who was doing more of the work. But in this scan, you see a major difference in their body position. You can tell who is doing the heavy lifting IMO.

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#40 Posted by P00TY (4188 posts) - - Show Bio

@tedirey: @kingguinness: Comics don't always follow the Mythology perfectly. The scan shows much more then Earts sky being lifted.

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#41 Posted by APEX_pretador (12741 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: I'll address the other things, but first this.

@p00ty said:

@apex_pretador: MM doesn't appear to be helping at all. He's dangling. He's not in a support position. In fact in the previous scan you see him helplessly being swallowed. I think she did did the majority if not all the work.

It makes no sense if mmh made 0 effort to break free. He is strong, he can fly, then why wouldn't he make effort to break free?

Obviously it starts making sense when you consider that his strength alone, is just not enough to save himself from being swallowed.

If anything, MMH would exert more effort than Diana did, because his life was on the line. Also, MMH is stronger than diana so, he should exert most of the force required.

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#42 Posted by P00TY (4188 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: He could have given up and went limp. And his strength feats are not superior to hers. As someone else pointed out, the percentage that you used is merely your opinion. You think she's doing 30%. Many others put her as the most impressive. All opinions.

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#43 Posted by P00TY (4188 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Also, he could have been trying BEFORE she helped. But once he was lassoed he could have stop trying since he felt safe.

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#44 Posted by APEX_pretador (12741 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

Regarding Brevoort:

  • Was he really the author of the comic? Does his word count when he has a habit of saying ridiculous things, unless he was the author?
  • To me, it seems that he is trying to cop-out his way from a ridiculous question asked from a fan who knows nothing and trying to over-analyze a feat by using bad logic.
  • Thor is just "resisting the gravitationalpull of a Neutron Star", not "lifting some part of mass of neutron star". What brevoort says is "That was like a neutron star, comparable, but not a real neutron star." When you see the scan and the statement side by side, we can conclude that Thor just resisted an effect which was equivalent to the gravitational pull of a neutron star, not lifted anything which was made of neutron star matter.

Again, I saw that part as well and I can't even think of how you came up with something like that.

Gravity x Mass = Force

Gravity on any point = G x M / r^2

where

G = gravitational constant

M = Mass which is exerting the gravitational force

r = distance between the centre of mass of the mass exerting the gravitational force and the person.

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For a Neutron star, Mass = 3 times the sun

r = 10,000 m

Gravity = about 400 billion times the earth (just calculate)

So, thor's weight would be about 120 billion tonnes (0.3 x 400b) in this level of gravitational field.

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For a black hole, mass = mass of sun

r = 3,000 m

Gravity = about 1300 billion times of earth (just calculate)

So, MMH would weight about 200 billion tonnes (0.14 x 1300b) at the event horizon of a stellar black hole.

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Source for formulas - Just check wikipedia articles for these:

  • Neutron Star
  • schwarzschild radius
  • Escape Velocity
  • gravitational acceleration
  • newton's law of gravitation

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#45 Edited by APEX_pretador (12741 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@apex_pretador: Also, he could have been trying BEFORE she helped. But once he was lassoed he could have stop trying since he felt safe.

Just your opinion. And again, why would he give up, doesn't he want to get safe as quick as possible?

Can you prove that he stopped trying?

@p00ty said:

@apex_pretador: He could have given up and went limp. And his strength feats are not superior to hers. As someone else pointed out, the percentage that you used is merely your opinion. You think she's doing 30%. Many others put her as the most impressive. All opinions.

Ok, you could give both of them 50-50 credit and Thor's feat still comes out as superior (122 billion tonnes vs 102 billion tonnes), and that is not even counting for all that rubble that was pushed on Thor.

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#47 Posted by P00TY (4188 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Because if he's safe there is no need to continue to struggle.

The percentage that MM was helping is up for debate. Therefore WW feat could be slightly better than Thor's or inferior. So I accept your opinion. But understand why others may disagree. It is unknown.

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#48 Edited by APEX_pretador (12741 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@apex_pretador: Because if he's safe there is no need to continue to struggle.

Why would you think he suddenly started feeling safe?

The percentage that MM was helping is up for debate. Therefore WW feat could be slightly better than Thor's or inferior. So I accept your opinion. But understand why others may disagree. It is unknown.

Sure it is up to debate, but it is a no-brainer that the person whose life was on the line will exert far more effort than a friend helping him. Also, pretty sure that no-one would argue that Wonder Woman is "that much" stronger than MMH even though MMH is shown mostly on par with superman while diana is shown decently weaker.

Also, Martian Manhunter can fly with full control of his body so he doesn't need to brace against anything to exert effort, unlike someone like the hulk, who couldn't escape the pull despite having the strength.

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#49 Posted by P00TY (4188 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: He felt safe because he wasn't being pulled in any further. He was being swallowed. Suddenly he was stopped. He was safe. Similar to a drowning person. They will try to prevent drowning but as soon as someone secures them with a flotation device they feel safe. That's a no brainer IMO. I wouldn't continue exerting energy after I was secured.

MM and WW are comparable in Strength.

As said, it's up for interpretation how much if any help MM was giving WW.

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#50 Posted by APEX_pretador (12741 posts) - - Show Bio

@p00ty said:

@apex_pretador: He felt safe because he wasn't being pulled in any further. He was being swallowed. Suddenly he was stopped. He was safe. Similar to a drowning person. They will try to prevent drowning but as soon as someone secures them with a flotation device they feel safe. That's a no brainer IMO. I wouldn't continue exerting energy after I was secured.

MM and WW are comparable in Strength.

As said, it's up for interpretation how much if any help MM was giving WW.

If MMH and WW are comparable in strength according to you, then how does MMH feel completely helpless while Diana alone pulls him back? Unless MMH was also still exerting effort to fly away from black hole.

Diana wasn't even bracing against anything, and remember that J'ohn's life was on the line, so he will exert himself more than his limit while diana would not.

And remember that I totally ignored the rubble Thor was buried into. That would make his feat far more impressive.