Herald Tourney: SirFizzWhizz vs Skit(VOTE)

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

#1  Edited By mickey-mouse

Herald Tourney:

No Caption Provided

Restrictions:

  • Strength: Planet Busting.
  • Speed: FTL (Shouldn't be Flash levels of speed)
  • Energy Projection: Planetary Level
  • TK: Continent Level
  • TP: Planetary Level
  • Destruction of Body counts as Death for immortal characters (Iceman, Swamp Thing etc.)
  • No Reality Warping.
  • No BFR
  • No Deaging/Aging Your opponents team.
  • No Time Freeze.
  • No Power Mimics
  • No Depowerment
  • No Armies, duplicates, clones or summons. If you want fodder you'll have to purchase them.
  • No Prep Item or minion may Exceed The limitations of The Tournament..
  • No Nerfing, period.
  • I have the final say so on all characters/rulings.
  • You guys know the general power limits, so don't try and sneak in stuff, if I have to veto a bunch of characters for a person I will remove you from the tournament.
  • Sneaking in Character's over limits will have a zero tolerance policy. Over powered character's will be removed and replaced with an armless, legless Aunt May.
  • Unsure of something, feel free to ask. Better you ask me before you get in your match and I have to ban/rule against you.

Sirfizzwhizz: The **** No Godzilla?(Spawn Brothers)

Characters:

  • Spawn (Hell King)

  • Spawn (Downing)

  • Violator

Perks:

  • Full Knowledge (5)

  • Two Days of Prep (Character has access to their resources/Gear. Time may not be extended in any way) (5)

  • Morals Off (5)

  • Perfect Team Work (5)

Skit: Anime/Manga Curbstomp!!!!

Team;

  • Gilgamesh
  • Satan
  • Pheonix Ikki(pre travel)

Perks:

  • Full Knowledge (5)
  • Two Days of Prep (Character has access to their resources/Gear. Time may not be extended in any way) (5)
  • Psy Blind(Gilgamesh)
  • Temporal Anomaly(Ikki)

=====================================================

Map: Alien Fog World

No Caption Provided

Positions & Conditions:

  • Cold & Windy, Light Snow Falling
  • The Ground Is Covered In A Thick Soupy Acidic Fog(Hydrochloric Acid Fog)
  • Both Teams Start On Top Of One Of The Moutains(200 Meters High)
  • Teams Start 50 Miles Away & Well Hidden
  • Map Is 300 Square Miles
  • Planet Is Indestructible
  • No Leaving The Map
  • Both Teams Are Aware Of The Conditions
Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@lukehero: It says no BFR, but in the PM Soverieng stated BFR is not a win condition, you can do it still. So has it change, the rule I mean?

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@skit I will post a opener soon enough.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Opener

No Caption Provided

Al Simmons (Hell King)

Spawn, Hells most powerful soldier, and Humanities greatest champion. Al Simmons was the greatest assassin in the Image comics world. What is more impressive he was all human, with no meta powers. He used his skill, weapons, and tactics to take out the most powerful Cyborgs, and Meta Humans in Image. However he was betrayed and kill, which in turn sent him straight to Hell who wanted to recruit him. This is the typical story of Simmons, however it does not end there. When resurrected, the Man of Miracles (Image's version of the OAA/Presence) put into this Spawn the souls of 6000 people who all died around the same time Spawn had. With this act the MoM ensured Spawn would be able to resist the control of Hell, and match in power the most powerful Hell Kings and Celestial Angels in the Image Universe. MoM further enhanced Spawn with power of the Earth itself, granting Spawn world level Empathy with all living creatures, sensing darkness/evil anywhere, and minor control of Earth's natural forces. The last gift MoM gave to Spawn before Armageddon was the access and knowledge of Spawns own personal Hell Spawn Army called the Legion. With all this Spawn was able to keep putting Hell in its place, as well saving the earth from God and Satan.

No Caption Provided

Jim Downing

Jim Downing was a scientist who was hired by Wynn to create the perfect soldier. He preformed many tests on humans to find a way for Wynn to battle the forces of Heaven and Hell. He created beings like Overtkill, Tremor, and many more. Funded by the Mafia that Simmons took down so long ago, this man along with Wynn was close to unlocking the secrete. However Hell came to collect on Wynn's promise, Simmons. Simmons was suppose to be the final subject for the experiment, only for Hell to come for Simmons themselves. So Downing instead did the final procedure on himself. In a coma forever, until finally waking up with Simmons death. When he awoke he was given the power of a crazy Angel that attempted to kill God, as well Simmons own K-7 Leetha suit. this combined turned him into the quoted "Ultimate weapon in the Universe". However this is a early Downing who still has mystery to his past, as well still trying to grasp his powers.

No Caption Provided

Violator

The legend, the demon, the clown. Violator is the most famous, and strongest of the Phlebiac Brothers. A powerful demon of the highest order whose sole job is to test, and put through the wronger Hell Spawn. He is proven very powerful, and calculating, making him a major threat to Spawn since the beginning of the comic series. Violator became free of Malbolgia's rules when the boss died. Now he is a free lancer who is looking to take Hell over for himself, and has came close several times through both his planning, unique abilities, and raw power.

Strategy and Perks

Honestly Morals off is to make sure Downing and Simmons do not hesitate to kill. Perfect team work is a must for this team. With Full knowledge and prep, my team can for sure formulate plans, and strategies to counter anything your team is bringing. With prep, my team can also start the battle already in the shadows. Once in the Shadows, they can teleport anywhere there is shadows, remain unseen, and intangible till they surprise attack. Thankfully my team in Al and Clown are super geniuses in complicated strategies, and exploiting weaknesses. This prep will be essential fro them using the strategies I am suggesting how they will win.

No Caption Provided

So with that said, they start in the Shadows, and its your turn mate.

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for flash1812
Flash1812

5717

Forum Posts

63

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for flash1812
Flash1812

5717

Forum Posts

63

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lukehero: so if enigma doesnt reply do I qualify to the next round instantly

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12  Edited By Skit

@sirfizzwhizz: Comicvine is such a dick

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Sorry for not responding sooner, I got a notification, but it didn't say who sent it. Then when I figured out it was this I lost most of it. Anyways, intros, then prep and finally my plan.

Gilgamesh

No Caption Provided

Gilgamesh, the original(also from the first recorded literature in real life) and king of heroes. Thiswas not normal from birth. His mother a godess and his father a demi-god king, he was destined to do and own everything. He was given the task of judging both humans gods being viewed as an unbiased, unique being. He grew arrogant and became a tyrant though, looking down on humans and not following the orders of the gods. He was still beloved though and became the most powerful man in the world, owning everything and becoming a king among kings. He got to the point where he practically became a god himself, causing one to fall in love and the others fearing him. This resulted in the bull of heaven being sent to kill him, but even that failed with him and his sole friend restraining it with Enkindu, his most trusted weapon. There was only one thing left for him to take, immortality. After years of searching, he partially succeeded, regaining his youth. True immortality was taken away from him. After this he returned to rule until his death.

Powers-

Not much really to say here. His powers come entirely from his fate, personality and heritage. He has a high divinity due to being nearly a god. This also grants him godlike physiology, being superhuman in every way. He does have one ability though, the Gate of Babylon

No Caption Provided

Due to having collected all legends in his life, he has every single noble phantasm ever made with it retroactively adding ones after his death.

No Caption Provided

Gear-

See above obviously. To give an idea of what he has, here's a list of those just shown. Each has it's own unique abilities. One for example can negate healing and another can reflect magic. This just random stuff though, mere trinkets to him. His real treasures are Ea

No Caption Provided

and Enkidu which was used to constrain heaven's bull. It works by strengthening based on the divinity of the target.

Satan

This is technically Micheal, but they're twins and this picture is awesome
This is technically Micheal, but they're twins and this picture is awesome

Don't think I really need to go over the back story of Satan. The main difference though is Satan instead turned against god in an act of betrayal. He does so in defiance to protect demons who god felt where simple failures due to them causing the dinosaurs to go extinct. While unnaturally violent, they where capable of feeling love, so he rose with them to fight back. He in the end, narrowly lost. This resulted in him and the demons being frozen until to modern times. He awoke well before this though and formed a plan with the upper demons to retake the planet and manipulate the humans into self destruction. Satan did this by having his top telepath make him think he was Ryo Asuka, an orphaned boy whose father died discovering the frozen demons. This allowed him to understand the heart of a human and set the plan in motion. This for the most part worked with the only flaw being his love resulting in the creation of the devilmen. The war between the two lead to the eventual destruction of the planet and death of all life besides him and heaven.

Powers-

As an archangel and formerly the right hand of god, he is extremely powerful only rivaled by Micheal and surpassed by god. His powers include flight, telepathy, teleportation, matter manipulation, super stats, fire manipulation, creation, TK, can make shields, shapeshifting, shrinking, soul and time manipulation.

Gear-

He has a sword that can assumed is threat to beings on his level. Otherwise he's normally naked.

Phoenix Ikki

No Caption Provided

Niether Ikki nor his brother ever knew their father, having left very early in their lives. Due to this he had to protect his brother and was toughened up at an early age. His father didn't stay gone though. When they where a child, his organization took them and made them become saints. During their training, they where separated. This started him down a path of coldness towards the world and revenge. He needed more power to do this though. During a tournament to win a gold cloth, he interrupted it and stole most of it. He nearly succeeded, but his former friends united their strength and forced him to use his own abilities on himself, removing his hate.

Powers-

Even without his cloth, he's superhuman in every regard. Even when going through training, saints are taught how to bring their power to the point of being able to atomize things with even their punches

Since, he's pushed himself to the point of developing the 6th(mental abilities like telepathy, telekinesis,etc.), the 7th(pushing the body to it's peak) and 8th sense(life it's self, transcending death and being able self resurrect. Turned off due to the rules). Finally, he's got high level regeneration, surpassing even other saints.

Gear-

No Caption Provided

The phoenix cloth with which his name comes from. This enhances him in every single way. Most notably in his regeneration, being capable of self repair and enhancing his further. Lastly, it grants him high level fire manipulation.

Prep-

The prep will mainly consist of arming my team, taking advantage of resources and powers readily available to them. This will mainly consist of getting Gilgamesh and Satan gold cloths. They'll achieve this by first having Gilgamesh pull out his best set's armor(the one he wears is just because it's golden and pretty). They will with Ikki's power and Satan's matter manipulation. Satan's should be more than enough giving even a lesser demon can create stuff out of nothing, Amon(whom Satan can one shot) was turning entire countries into liquid and Satan himself created a moon sized ball of light that vaporized everything and all the looked at it turned to salt(note, it's hinted at this beings god doing, but this is never outright stated and makes way less sense and there's evidence it was Satan like Ryo freaking out in one the scans below).

No Caption Provided

Even if creating them fails, at this point of the story, all the gold saints where dead. So they could just use those as well if this for some reason fails. Now the reason for doing this in the first place is because it gives Gilgamesh protection atom level attacks, gives additional, similar if not greater(since they're both more powerful than he is clothless) durability,strength and speed to Pheonix with the cloth alone being able to grant light speed.

After this Gilamesh will pullout Avalon and use it on himself, granting him regen good to survive any wound not to the head.

Loading Video...

Finally, I have a question. Is Violator weak to holy magic and weapons? I'm not exactly a spawn expert, but I know spawn has been kind of off and on with this.

Plan

Also having full knowledge and the fact that you're teams not anywhere clues my team into the fact that your team is in the shadows. My team doesn't actually have to much to counter this. Satan irradiates enough light, to illuminate the top of a mountain

No Caption Provided

Gold Cloths are know for their brightness and how they radiate light. 12 even partially recreated the sun's

This means no shadows will be remotely close. Even if they did, not at his peak Gilgamesh on has near lightspeed reactions, being able to block a blitz from Saber

Act 11

-72:43:28

“The holy sword intertwined with the demonic lance, in direct opposition; the sparks flying were simply dazzling. The clash between the precious artifacts of legend, driven by strength and speed far beyond that of a human, passed the speed of sound, nearing the speed of light. Observation had long since lost meaning in this momentous battle. Those divine skills, pushed to the limits at the point of this fierce battle, were having a supreme contest between the two.”

Peak has ftl, only boosted by his gold cloth.

Phoenix, is faster than Gold saints to the point they can't react to him.

Satan can travel to space in an instance

Even if you're team could, you yourself even said your team was underpowered by this tiering. Ikki's armor can stand up to a blast that destroys several, albeit smaller, celestial bodies

So I need to see what they can even do to be a threat.

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

#13  Edited By mickey-mouse

Holy s****.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#14  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@skit:

Prep-

The prep will mainly consist of arming my team, taking advantage of resources and powers readily available to them. This will mainly consist of getting Gilgamesh and Satan gold cloths. They'll achieve this by first having Gilgamesh pull out his best set's armor(the one he wears is just because it's golden and pretty). They will with Ikki's power and Satan's matter manipulation. Satan's should be more than enough giving even a lesser demon can create stuff out of nothing, Amon(whom Satan can one shot) was turning entire countries into liquid and Satan himself created a moon sized ball of light that vaporized everything and all the looked at it turned to salt(note, it's hinted at this beings god doing, but this is never outright stated and makes way less sense and there's evidence it was Satan like Ryo freaking out in one the scans below).

So far your whole plan is for your characters to creat something they never been shown to create. Gold cloths are insane in power level, and none of your showings showed the ability to create such things. then there is the team work factor. None of your guys know the other well unlike my team. Why would your character try to get them to make Gold Cloths when one is evil as hell, the other selfish as hell? Not in character as far as I see it.

Even if creating them fails, at this point of the story, all the gold saints where dead. So they could just use those as well if this for some reason fails. Now the reason for doing this in the first place is because it gives Gilgamesh protection atom level attacks, gives additional, similar if not greater(since they're both more powerful than he is clothless) durability,strength and speed to Pheonix with the cloth alone being able to grant light speed.

Well, most of the Hell Kings are dead, but I will not claim Violator or Downing claim their Hells and become Hell King themselves. its not in character. your characters have no way accessing these gold cloths as your character does not have them as gear. Only his own.

Ijn the end this strikes me more fan fiction than in character debating.

After this Gilamesh will pullout Avalon and use it on himself, granting him regen good to survive any wound not to the head.

Ok.

Finally, I have a question. Is Violator weak to holy magic and weapons? I'm not exactly a spawn expert, but I know spawn has been kind of off and on with this.

Spawn has issues with holy energy. Violator and Downing do not.

Plan

Also having full knowledge and the fact that you're teams not anywhere clues my team into the fact that your team is in the shadows. My team doesn't actually have to much to counter this. Satan irradiates enough light, to illuminate the top of a mountain

Gold Cloths are know for their brightness and how they radiate light. 12 even partially recreated the sun's

This means no shadows will be remotely close. Even if they did, not at his peak Gilgamesh on has near lightspeed reactions, being able to block a blitz from Saber

Fair enough.

Act 11

-72:43:28

“The holy sword intertwined with the demonic lance, in direct opposition; the sparks flying were simply dazzling. The clash between the precious artifacts of legend, driven by strength and speed far beyond that of a human, passed the speed of sound, nearing the speed of light. Observation had long since lost meaning in this momentous battle. Those divine skills, pushed to the limits at the point of this fierce battle, were having a supreme contest between the two.”

Peak has ftl, only boosted by his gold cloth.

Phoenix, is faster than Gold saints to the point they can't react to him.

Satan can travel to space in an instance

All good. All my characters are Light Speed in teleportation. Other than that super to hyper sonic speeds. However, Simmons can bend time to a near stand still.

Even if you're team could, you yourself even said your team was underpowered by this tiering. Ikki's armor can stand up to a blast that destroys several, albeit smaller, celestial bodies

Thats true. My team is not over all powerhouses. However they have much Hax.

So I need to see what they can even do to be a threat.

Galaxy Explosion? Well lets get this straight lol, world level is Surfer level, the tier were using, not galaxy. Galaxy explosion is Odin Level. I dont think that is the tier. So i hope your team is within limits.

My Opening Moves

I also stated my team has teamwork, and two capable geniuses in attacking, and planning. They know what to do to win here. they will start in the Shadows. There they are intangible, and invisible to all the normal senses. While your team is lighting the top of the planet, there is plenty of shadows in the fog areas to play with. From there Simmons and Downing can attack from there the souls of your team.

  • Psy Blind(Gilgamesh)
  • Temporal Anomaly(Ikki)

These are your perks. Nothing about soul attacks which my team can simply attack at directly.

Simmons

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Spawn in the top scan destroys the soul of a immortal killer. Second scan he summons the karma in Freak to manifest itself into a a tangible substance, insects, which then choke to death, and devour freak. Both capable ways of killing your team easy from what I seen.

Downing

Downing has the unique power to turn evil, and negativity into insects that will devour the host with its own evil like a Vampire sucking blood. They can be spawn in the inside or outside of foes, and cover a human body in a second.

No Caption Provided

Even Hell King Malbolgia who was stated strong enough to destroy all life on the planet was easily overcome by this attack. Drain of power, and devoured. This should one shot Satan or Gilgamesh who strike me as not good people at all.

Violator

No Caption Provided

Violator has a unique mixture of telepathy and Possession. He was able to manipulate a entire city of Manhattan by possessing people, and physically transform them into super human Clowns all link to his mind.

His ability to spread himself across a city, and hop body to body was enough to defeat even Spawn. Forcing those he possess to fight in their body, or commit suicide. While this may arguably not work on Satan, it should work fine on Gilgamesh, and your Saint.

I think this is enough for a easy win. Your turn.

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@sirfizzwhizz:

So far your whole plan is for your characters to create something they never been shown to create. Gold cloths are insane in power level, and none of your showings showed the ability to create such things.

My teams not even making them from scratch, they're turning Gil's armor into gold cloths which is basically how they're made. They make a set of durable armor through traditional means, then give it it's own cosmos. The original method was never shown, but Saints have brought one's reverted to normal armor again(and damaged beyond repair) back to life themselves by using their blood.

So, Satan just makes Gils armor as close as he can to a powerless Gold Cloth, then Ikki slits his wrists giving the armors a blood bath and heals up. Boom you've got two gold cloths.

then there is the team work factor. None of your guys know the other well unlike my team.

Two days and tp are an great way to bond.

Why would your character try to get them to make Gold Cloths when one is evil as hell, the other selfish as hell? Not in character as far as I see it.

Satan and Ikki would probably get along if anything. Ikki would sympathize with Satans actions since he himself went to extremes when he was losing his mind to point he tried killing his friends and the bronze saints.

Satan being evil is a questionable. His actions weren't without reason and he took no pleasure in them. He even regretted the death of humanity and realized him doing this was no better than god despite the earth being theirs(the demons) by right.

This moral ambiguity is one of the biggest themes.The only evil thing Satan did was creating the ball of light which was done subconsciously to prevent nukes from killing Devilman. This also prevented a lot of deaths. Gil casually rapes and murders, but he's done more to the benefit of the world, genuinely cares for his people and his charm is borderline a power

No Caption Provided

Well, most of the Hell Kings are dead, but I will not claim Violator or Downing claim their Hells and become Hell King themselves. its not in character. your characters have no way accessing these gold cloths as your character does not have them as gear. Only his own.

Ikki and the other 4 bronze saints are basically in charge of everything. The gold saints(including the pope) are dead and Athena was kidnapped. They had readily available access to pretty much everything due being the highest ranking.Spawn has issues with holy energy. Violator and Downing do not.

Fair enough.

It's worth noting that I wasn't really thinking when i said the partially recreate the sun thing. They used up that energy when they died. The gold cloths still produce light like in the two scans though.

Simmons can bend time to a near stand still.

Good thing Ikki is immune due the perk, Satan has resisted Gods in addition to his own

and that Gilgamesh exists outside of time.

No Caption Provided

Galaxy Explosion? Well lets get this straight lol, world level is Surfer level, the tier were using, not galaxy. Galaxy explosion is Odin Level. I dont think that is the tier. So i hope your team is within limits.

Galaxian Explosion is just a name. He named it after his dead brothers(saga, which is why he he says he's not up to snuff) ultimate attack to honor him.

and invisible to all the normal senses

Well Ikki does have 8 and Satan even as a human could sense demons

No Caption Provided

From there Simmons and Downing can attack from there the souls of your team.Psy Blind(Gilgamesh)Temporal Anomaly(Ikki)These are your perks. Nothing about soul attacks which my team can simply attack at directly.

Ikki's 8th sense allows full control of his soul and in his very first appearance he destroyed another saints soul.

No Caption Provided

Gil is A technically a recreation of himself and debatably his spirit is separate like with time. Even then, all the worlds evil(a substance created by the reality warping holy grail that corrupts all it touches) didn't do anything to him either to the point he mocked it.

No Caption Provided

Satan I shouldn't even have to explain, you know, hell and all. In case you need proof of active soul based abilities though, demons can consume souls in large quantities and control people through their soul.

Satan can simultaneously control all of the demons

No Caption Provided

Spawn - Both capable ways of killing your team easy from what I seen.

Downing - This should one shot Satan or Gilgamesh who strike me as not good people at all.

I already went through the evilness thing. Here's the thing though, neither demonic or evil nature. Quite the opposite actually as both are divine beings with Gil being at the same level as Hercules.

ViolatorViolator has a unique mixture of telepathy and Possession.

Well soul stuff I've already gone over. TP well... Satan works on a planetary scale

No Caption Provided

Gil is immune and Ikki due to having upper senses is immune to those that come from the 6th.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@sirfizzwhizz:

My teams not even making them from scratch, they're turning Gil's armor into gold cloths which is basically how they're made. They make a set of durable armor through traditional means, then give it it's own cosmos. The original method was never shown, but Saints have brought one's reverted to normal armor again(and damaged beyond repair) back to life themselves by using their blood.

So, Satan just makes Gils armor as close as he can to a powerless Gold Cloth, then Ikki slits his wrists giving the armors a blood bath and heals up. Boom you've got two gold cloths.

Still I can say Simmons lets downing and Violator claim 7th and 6th crowns of hell, becoming Hell Kings themselves. Two problems. 1) They are featless with that power. 2) that is not in character at all.

So does your characters have feats with Gold Cloths? Does your Saint go around making gold Cloths for people? It strikes me more fan fic than argument.

Two days and tp are an great way to bond.

True that, true that.

Satan and Ikki would probably get along if anything. Ikki would sympathize with Satans actions since he himself went to extremes when he was losing his mind to point he tried killing his friends and the bronze saints.

Satan being evil is a questionable. His actions weren't without reason and he took no pleasure in them. He even regretted the death of humanity and realized him doing this was no better than god despite the earth being theirs(the demons) by right.

This moral ambiguity is one of the biggest themes.The only evil thing Satan did was creating the ball of light which was done subconsciously to prevent nukes from killing Devilman. This also prevented a lot of deaths. Gil casually rapes and murders, but he's done more to the benefit of the world, genuinely cares for his people and his charm is borderline a power

Ikki and the other 4 bronze saints are basically in charge of everything. The gold saints(including the pope) are dead and Athena was kidnapped. They had readily available access to pretty much everything due being the highest ranking.Spawn has issues with holy energy.

Still, does your Saint have in character feats of simply going around and granting Gold Cloths to people? Do your characters have feats with said cloths?

It's worth noting that I wasn't really thinking when i said the partially recreate the sun thing. They used up that energy when they died. The gold cloths still produce light like in the two scans though.

Ok then, but the Fog is a asset still, and so are any shadows casted from the light.

Good thing Ikki is immune due the perk,

Yup.

Satan has resisted Gods in addition to his own

Time travel and manipulating time flow is not the same. From what i read, it was time traveling thing.

and that Gilgamesh exists outside of time.

Malbolgia and hell Kings exist outside of time, but they are still bound to the time flow of whatever dimensional plane they are on. I rather see time manipulation immunity feats.

Galaxian Explosion is just a name. He named it after his dead brothers(saga, which is why he he says he's not up to snuff) ultimate attack to honor him.

Ok. but what is the point of that attack? By art looks like many worlds. im not sure how to read that art work.

Well Ikki does have 8 and Satan even as a human could sense demons

Nice. That makes things more interesting indeed. Still, there is the phasing they have.

Ikki's 8th sense allows full control of his soul and in his very first appearance he destroyed another saints soul.

He may be a issue, luckily my team has Full Knowledge so they can avoid wasting time on him. Now the question is what Psy defenses Ikki have?

Gil is A technically a recreation of himself and debatably his spirit is separate like with time. Even then, all the worlds evil(a substance created by the reality warping holy grail that corrupts all it touches) didn't do anything to him either to the point he mocked it.

So this guy is a empty shell? Your not making it easy to understand what this guy is or can do. What are his best durability feats anyway? One reason myself and others hate debating obscure Anime characters lol. I cant dig much info on your team, and what I am digging is not matching up.

Satan I shouldn't even have to explain, you know, hell and all. In case you need proof of active soul based abilities though, demons can consume souls in large quantities and control people through their soul.

I already knew he be a waste of time. So he is left to Downing.

Satan can simultaneously control all of the demons

Thats cool, its why i left Downing to deal with him.

I already went through the evilness thing. Here's the thing though, neither demonic or evil nature. Quite the opposite actually as both are divine beings with Gil being at the same level as Hercules.

Thats cool and all, but the fact is your characters done bad things. whether you think they are not evil, they are. Wiping out humanity, rape, pillage, murder, ect. They get the death by Karma that does not care what Divinity they have. Even Angels in Spawn comics are as evil as the demon, because they do bad things no matter the reason or heritage.

As it stands they get eaten alive inside out, or choke to death, or explode from evil turn solid in the body. meanwhile what is being vampire from their evil is empowering Downing.

Well soul stuff I've already gone over. TP well... Satan works on a planetary scale

So does Simmons Spawn.

Freezing time to a near stand still, just for some quite from the worlds thoughts in his head at once. Yet...

No Caption Provided

Violator has TP Spawn twice to mess with his head.

Gil is immune and Ikki due to having upper senses is immune to those that come from the 6th.

This is not a feat though. What has he done with 6th Sense to make it special or as good as Spawn, Violator, ect?

As of now I am phishing for some info.

1) Gilgamesh exist outside of time, soul and such, but how is he then in the dimensional plane of now?

2) What are Gilgamesh stats?

3) What feats does Ikki have in 6th Sense?

So far I only got a understanding of Satan.

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Lotta questions need answers.

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@sirfizzwhizz:

Still I can say Simmons lets downing and Violator claim 7th and 6th crowns of hell, becoming Hell Kings themselves. Two problems. 1) They are featless with that power. 2) that is not in character at all in character.So does your characters have feats with Gold Cloths?

Difference between our teams is that my team doesn't exist in the same universe like you're team. So obviously no, they don't have feats with it.

Does your Saint go around making gold Cloths for people? It strikes me more fan fic than argument.

No because there's no reason for him to do so. Everybody that's capable of using a gold cloth already has/had one or is a villain. Not to mention none of the bronze saints are capable of magicing up a set of armor, let alone one one good enough to be made into a cloth. They would have to Smith a set armor like a real life one and scour the planets to find high enough quality materials. That's why he needs Gils armor and then Satan to bring it up to an appropriate level.

Still, does your Saint have in character feats of simply going around and granting Gold Cloths to people? Do your characters have feats with said cloths?

No, rescuing Athena was the main objective(that's why their her saints), reinstating the gold saints was far less important at the time and would defeat the purpose of them sacrificing themselves in the first place.

Travel and manipulating time flow is not the same.

Yes, but God reset time and changed it.

Satan also wasn't traveling, he was changing history too as a result. The demons where frozen from a little after the death of the dinosaurs to somewhere around the time of the manga being written(1972). Yet, demons where around back in the 1400s with Joan of Arc.

No Caption Provided

Malbolgia and hell Kings exist outside of time, but they are still bound to the time flow of whatever dimensional plane they are on. I rather see time manipulation immunity feats.

I'll go over this when I do the explanation. Some of his gear grant anti "magic"(I have magic in quotes because it's basically used to describe all forms of energy, sorcery is just a level of magic use) and time manipulation is achieved through it and is made out to be particularly uncommon

No Caption Provided

and much weaker can tank space manipulation

No Caption Provided

but what is the point of that attack? By art looks like many worlds. im not sure how to read that art work.

The multiple planets thing was to show how how powerful the attack was. Saint Seiya is generally pretty specific and explanatory. It even use to say the say speed of characters(down to how many punches thrown) were fighting

Saint Seiya pretty much started the whole yelling your attack moves and over explaining everything trend with anime
Saint Seiya pretty much started the whole yelling your attack moves and over explaining everything trend with anime

Now the question is what Psy defenses Ikki have?

Like I said Ikki has the 7th and 8th sense which make attacks to the 1st through 6th void. The 6th sense is what allows humans to have powers like telepathy. Virgo Shaka's power is to manipulate the senses. He turned off all 6 after awhile. This would beyond vegetablize, but the 7th sense allows him to function like normal even when his brain shouldn't even work. It's like using a power that attacks the sight of a person on Daredevil, but because he doesn't do anything because it's not necessary to him. If you want a telepathic feat though, they often communicate across dimensions and from other solar systems.

So this guy is a empty shell? Your not making it easy to understand what this guy is or can do. What are his best durability feats anyway? One reason myself and others hate debating obscure Anime characters lol. I cant dig much info on your team, and what I am digging is not matching up.

Technically Gilgamesh is a video game/VN character and even further the first character in real life history, but I get what you're saying. So, I'm going to try and cliff note what the whole franchise revolves around. When a being(this ranges from somebody real like Alexander the great to a fictional one like hercules) of significant importance or fame dies, they become what is know as a heroic spirit. They're then returned to their prime and placed outside of time with the others by the holy grail(a semi sentient omnipotent device which grants the weirder anything they want). Then if they have a desire that went unfulfilled during their life, they get a chance to have that fulfilled by having an avatar of themselves summoned at random when the holy grail appears..

No Caption Provided

This happens endlessly throughout time until they win it. So, even in an alternate time line(a commodity for the series), they themselves will not change after they've become one, only there avatar. Hell, spoilers

but the main character of the original series(a human not a heroic spirit) ended up teaming up with and fight an older version of from a different time line due to him being summoned.

I already went through the evilness thing. Here's the thing though, neither demonic or evil nature. Quite the opposite actually as both are divine beings with Gil being at the same level as Hercules.

Thats cool and all, but the fact is your characters done bad things. whether you think they are not evil, they are. Wiping out humanity, rape, pillage, murder, ect.

Evil in who's eyes, God's? God was going to kill all of the demon's, even the peaceful ones who had done nothing wrong in their lives. Holy warriors go around destroying entire areas, killing tons to get a single person

Devilman did exactly what god had wanted(he pretty successfully killed all the demons) and never harmed an innocent in his life, even pacifying criminals controlled by demons.

yet God sent him to hell

Devilman considers the demons and hell evil, but not the same of Satan

He even choose to just take out the nukes and not harm the earth when time was reset

No Caption Provided

If Satan is evil, then Jeanne D'Arc really was evil like the demons said

No Caption Provided

They get the death by Karma that does not care what Divinity they have. Even Angels in Spawn comics are as evil as the demon, because they do bad things no matter the reason or heritage.As it stands they get eaten alive inside out, or choke to death, or explode from evil turn solid in the body. meanwhile what is being vampire from their evil is empowering Downing.

So you have any feats of them using it on them, let alone the closest being to god.

No Caption Provided

Violator has TP Spawn twice to mess with his head.

And Satan is a more powerful telepath than the demon in the scan. A stronger telepath erased his memories and that only lasted temporarily despite him allowing it. When she betrayed him, he had no trouble entering her mind

No Caption Provided

What are Gilgamesh stats

Speed I already did. Durability, he took this shirtless

Loading Video...

strength wise he's stronger than Saber so safely in the 100 ton range. Not really his strong point for lack of a punless description. Damage output with his gear is a different story though as seen at 6:00 where he thoroughly beat her with a full powered ea attack. A normal prolonged blast tore up a reality marble fast enough that he destroyed what supported it before he could destroy the whole thing.

Loading Video...

Now, what is a RM you may ask. Well it's more or less rewrites the world for the duration it's activated, once off the world goes back to normal regardless of what happen during.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@skit:

Difference between our teams is that my team doesn't exist in the same universe like you're team. So obviously no, they don't have feats with it.

Then I see no reason they should be able to utilize these cloths or anything.

No because there's no reason for him to do so. Everybody that's capable of using a gold cloth already has/had one or is a villain. Not to mention none of the bronze saints are capable of magicing up a set of armor, let alone one one good enough to be made into a cloth. They would have to Smith a set armor like a real life one and scour the planets to find high enough quality materials. That's why he needs Gils armor and then Satan to bring it up to an appropriate level.

Sounds like alot of outside thinking for in character unless they shown this.

No, rescuing Athena was the main objective(that's why their her saints), reinstating the gold saints was far less important at the time and would defeat the purpose of them sacrificing themselves in the first place.

Then I stand on my two recent comments above. Its not in character, nor characters shown to use these cloths themselves.

Yes, but God reset time and changed it.

Satan also wasn't traveling, he was changing history too as a result. The demons where frozen from a little after the death of the dinosaurs to somewhere around the time of the manga being written(1972). Yet, demons where around back in the 1400s with Joan of Arc.

OK, fair enough that Satan wont be affected, but the same cannot be said of the other two as far as I am concern as of this moment.

I'll go over this when I do the explanation. Some of his gear grant anti "magic"(I have magic in quotes because it's basically used to describe all forms of energy, sorcery is just a level of magic use) and time manipulation is achieved through it and is made out to be particularly uncommon

and much weaker can tank space manipulation

Ok... those scans really mean nothing to me. Im not seeing somebody resisting time manipulation, and the scans and what your describing are no clicking a clear picture either. At least Spawns two scans of manipulating time flow was clear and sttated clearly. Your seeming to have to do alot of explaining to back up Gilgamesh can resist being affected by time slow.

The multiple planets thing was to show how how powerful the attack was. Saint Seiya is generally pretty specific and explanatory. It even use to say the say speed of characters(down to how many punches thrown) were fighting

Well as you know, Im glad your arguing your characters being herald level as some users around her seem to think they are universe to galaxy level lol.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

So again it seems your characters feats are very hard to substantiate. Im just not sure about your character picks that are very vague in what they can do, and what limits they are.

Like I said Ikki has the 7th and 8th sense which make attacks to the 1st through 6th void. The 6th sense is what allows humans to have powers like telepathy. Virgo Shaka's power is to manipulate the senses. He turned off all 6 after awhile. This would beyond vegetablize, but the 7th sense allows him to function like normal even when his brain shouldn't even work. It's like using a power that attacks the sight of a person on Daredevil, but because he doesn't do anything because it's not necessary to him. If you want a telepathic feat though, they often communicate across dimensions and from other solar systems.

Ok but can they read the thoughts of every living creature on earth? not just humans, but nature as well. Spawn can. Like wise Violator can TP attack Spawn and cross dimensions with his. Im not sure why these two do not mind crush Ikki from what I seen alone.

Technically Gilgamesh is a video game/VN character and even further the first character in real life history, but I get what you're saying. So, I'm going to try and cliff note what the whole franchise revolves around. When a being(this ranges from somebody real like Alexander the great to a fictional one like hercules) of significant importance or fame dies, they become what is know as a heroic spirit. They're then returned to their prime and placed outside of time with the others by the holy grail(a semi sentient omnipotent device which grants the weirder anything they want). Then if they have a desire that went unfulfilled during their life, they get a chance to have that fulfilled by having an avatar of themselves summoned at random when the holy grail appears..

This happens endlessly throughout time until they win it. So, even in an alternate time line(a commodity for the series), they themselves will not change after they've become one, only there avatar. Hell, spoilers

Well thats all grand and all, but seems to me the other self still has a soul and exists in that time flow to be affected by soul manipulation, soul attacks, or time manipulation. Untill I see solid feats otherwise.

I already went through the evilness thing. Here's the thing though, neither demonic or evil nature. Quite the opposite actually as both are divine beings with Gil being at the same level as Hercules.

In Spawn comics God is divine as are angels, and yet they have evil in them. Downing himself is part angel and has evil in him. So Im not buying Gilgamesh has no negative karma in him for Spawn to play with by being Holy.

Evil in who's eyes, God's? God was going to kill all of the demon's, even the peaceful ones who had done nothing wrong in their lives. Holy warriors go around destroying entire areas, killing tons to get a single person

Devilman did exactly what god had wanted(he pretty successfully killed all the demons) and never harmed an innocent in his life, even pacifying criminals controlled by demons.

yet God sent him to hell

Devilman considers the demons and hell evil, but not the same of Satan

He even choose to just take out the nukes and not harm the earth when time was reset

If Satan is evil, then Jeanne D'Arc really was evil like the demons said

Ok, what does this have to do with Gilgamesh, Satan, and more having bad karma and doing evil things? Evil is anything negative done. This includes acts of taking life without the need of survival, torture, needless violence, ect. This stuff feeds Downing's power and allows him to manifest it into physical form.

No Caption Provided

Enough to fill a buss to the brim in seconds. That is going to end any of your characters, and it will drain Satan himself like it had Malbolgia, a Hell King who by feats is equals with Satan your showing if not his superior.

Like I said this negative karma exist for Heaven and Hell in Spawn universe, and being holy or whatever is no excuse to negate this.

So you have any feats of them using it on them, let alone the closest being to god.

Yes, they were used on Downing himself. He being a angel of the highest order as well mate. The suit was feeding off Downing without his kowing like a parasite host, and corrupted Downings own holy healing abilities with the insects manifestation. all explain in recent issues of #240 to #248/ Add to all this Vampire are backed by heaven as warriors of heaven. Crazy I know, but they are explicite heaven's agents, and the insects work on them fine.

No Caption Provided

Again the power works on beinsg that done bad things. Has your character done

And Satan is a more powerful telepath than the demon in the scan. A stronger telepath erased his memories and that only lasted temporarily despite him allowing it. When she betrayed him, he had no trouble entering her mind

I think Spawn and even Violator have better TP feats.

Feats of seeing through the eyes of all life, hearing the thoughts of all humans, and even feeling the very pain of the living Earth as a whole. All this is proof of power. Satan has none of these feats. Violator like wise not grand in acope has mentally stagger Spawn till Spawn pushes him out.

Speed I already did. Durability, he took this shirtless

strength wise he's stronger than Saber so safely in the 100 ton range. Not really his strong point for lack of a punless description. Damage output with his gear is a different story though as seen at 6:00 where he thoroughly beat her with a full powered ea attack. A normal prolonged blast tore up a reality marble fast enough that he destroyed what supported it before he could destroy the whole thing.

Now, what is a RM you may ask. Well it's more or less rewrites the world for the duration it's activated, once off the world goes back to normal regardless of what happen during.

...........what the flying monkey hoo ha am I looking at lol. I will write this off as a reality warping on world level feat, which is meh to me. Spawn as a Hell King is easy world level of a higher caliber under his own power.

I already showed world level ability via empathy, time manipulation, and telepathy, here is other accolades and feats of Hell Kings.

Normal Spawn

Then we cannot forget the ultimate Weapon in the Universe, the suit K-7 Leetha itself.

3 Separate qoutes of his K7-Leetha suit, the one Simmons had before his death, becoming the most powerful weapon in the Universe by Violator and Malbolgia.

Normal Spawn alone is able to match the Dark God Urizen.

Urizen is a huge God of Darkness. Urizen is proven to surpass both the Hell Kings, and Seraphim of both Heaven and Hell as one of the children of MoM. He is the "lifeless, deathless, dreamless, souless" causing God of darkness. Able to drain worlds of souls entirely, and wreck the planets while existing in and out of reality in a fashion.

Yet Spawn with out Hell king Powers matched this God.

Hell King Spawn

So now lets discuss what it means for Spawn to be Hell King. Some Accolades of how powerful a Hell King is.

No Caption Provided

Malbolgia is stated by God to have delivered agony to billions of worlds and dimensions.

In his Realm he is Omnipotent, but can and was casted away by Lucifer himself, who as Malbolgia stated is second to only.

One of the boons as a Hell King is Unlimited Necro Energy. Here in this feat he not only fully restored the 9999 counter for Simmons, but teleports him to Earth after easily besting Spawn with ease, even matter shaping himself as a mountain size version of himself when Spawn approached his throne.

Here is Malbolgia stated to exist outside of Time as a Hell King.

Malbolgia again stated outside time, but this time shows himself to hold the world in his hand, gazing at all that is going on at that particular time, and manages to snatch Spawn only to drag him across the world to Texas.

No Caption Provided

Even when Malbolgia stated to not only be able to, but has already the power to scorch earth to the ground with nothing left standing. This is a greater feat in the fact Malbolgia was depowered in this state and still stated to have the power to do this looking for his missing power.

Here is Mamon, another Hell King and only slightly above Mabolgia as it turns out, making Malbolgia at this time of comics second to Mamon and Lucifer. Mamon states that if Spawn takes the crown of Hell King he can create a world with millions of Wandas on it. He also states his own Hell King power of being older than time.

Here is Spawn actually accepting his role as Hell king, and taking over the entire "world" that is the 8th Sphere of Hell and decimating all foes with total ease with his "limitless" power he draws as Hell King. This is just him manipulating a world by his raw power as hell king like Mamon, Malbolgia, and the rest.

This is Omega Spawn, a Spawn made with some piece of the prior Simmons Spawn, and thanks to a re emerging Malbolgia was able to claim the 8th Sphere with the stated power of a Hell King at his disposal. Omega Spawn with "power nearly rivaling Malbolgias own" not only takes the 8th Sphere, but conquers the other 7 Spheres, and stated able to split the Earth in Half.

Omega Spawn was already shown to be able to easily lay waste to Images heroes united including Young Blood, Shadow Hawk, Dragon, Witchblade, Fortress, Invincible, Downing Spawn, and more. He is shown to easily in the future rule earth, and then reduce it to cinders after taking out all of Images heroes. Remaking the planet how he wants. All with the power "nearly rivaling" Malbogias own Hell King power.

Omega Spawn who is close to Malbolgia, and becomes King of Hell has infinite energy. No limits to this world creating or destroying energy as a Hell King.

In short I see Gilgamesh as a weak compared to this. Violator is like wise able to match Spawn to a degree, and Downing inherited the power of the suit with his crazy angel powers. Im not sure why Gilgamesh cannot simply die from this.

As well Freeze Time and read the thoughts of every living thing on Earth at the same time.

Thats game for Gilagamesh, if he is not being a soul puppet for Violator or soul attack by Spawn, or simply eaten alive by his terrible arrogant, rapist, murdering filled karma.

Conclusion

  • I think Ikki is questionable with galaxy attacks and planets hurled around on panel, but even more so I think Ikki has no real defense to mental attacks base on feats of Spawn and Violator.
  • I feel Gilgamesh the weakest threat. He has no feats vs time manipulation. Vs soul manipulation of Spawn and Violator. Vs the karma made insects of Downing. Vs the internal teleportation attacks of Spawn. I feel he will die rather quick.
  • Satan is the biggest threat, and easiest to understand of your team. I feel Spawn matches him fine. Again, my characters have better TP feats, and can likely physically beat Satan down for a win.
  • There is still no solid counter to my team invisibility, teleportation, and intangibility inside the shadows of this mountain range, foggy filled battle arena.
  • Thanks to full knowledge and time, my team can make the likely counter to yours I am imposing as of now.
  • My team has synergy, yours has none.
  • Your idea of making or granting Gold Cloths is out of character to me, and not real applicable.
Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@sirfizzwhizz:

Then I see no reason they should be able to utilize these cloths or anything.

That's like me saying your team can't beat mine because they have no feats of harming even a bronze saint. It's not possible to prove either way. Satan and Gil more than meet the requirements to wear them and I'm not arguing as even getting a massive boost from them.

Sounds like alot of outside thinking for in character unless they shown this.

How so? Gil would without a doubt, bring it up and Ikki isn't so dumb he would just forget the stuff he's been fighting with/for for the past 7 or so years and how that would be applicable in a battle.

Then I stand on my two recent comments above. Its not in character, nor characters shown to use these cloths themselves.

In character isn't the issue, plot is. Last time I checked though, this fight never happened in any of the series with which our characters come from, so that doesn't really work. If we we're to integrate it into to the plot it would be something along the lines of Ikki along with satan and Gilgamesh are teleported to an alien planet. The 3 are then told in two days they'll be facing your team, the sooner they win, the sooner they can go back and Ikki can save Athena. So using all of his resources to made the battle as short as possible.

OK, fair enough that Satan wont be affected, but the same cannot be said of the other two as far as I am concern as of this moment.

Well Gil, Ikki is immune.

Ok... those scans really mean nothing to me. Im not seeing somebody resisting time manipulation, and the scans and what your describing are no clicking a clear picture either. At least Spawns two scans of manipulating time flow was clear and stated clearly. Your seeming to have to do alot of explaining to back up Gilgamesh can resist being affected by time slow.

Sorry that was my fault, I should have explained since A. no context and B. awful translation. So basically what happened was, the girl(who was a heroic spirit) was bfred to another galaxy. So they froze time then flew back at ftl(this is why I said prime Gil is ftl) so they could get back before the the enemy attacked.All the casters use space time manip to teleport, yet they never use it against other heroic spirits, even Gil when fodderizing them.

If you go back to the video for avalon(actually here it is again for the sake of ease), a mage who's magic is limited to the point he even uses guns can even manipulate time and can spam it(though this is more due to avalon negating the strain it puts on the body).

Loading Video...

Mages even use it for petty stuff like a broken window(or I at least assume it's through time manip)

Well as you know, I'm glad your arguing your characters being herald level as some users around her seem to think they are universe to galaxy level lol.

While some are genuinely galaxy level, like Mu who bfred a dimension contains a galaxy out of existence,

not all characters have feats of it like Ikki who didn't until eos. Nobody besides gods in SS are universal. The mini big bang thing I've always thought of as being a sub atomic attack that basically just recreates the initial spark of the big bang.

So again it seems your characters feats are very hard to substantiate. Im just not sure about your character picks that are very vague in what they can do, and what limits they are.

I've yet to show a single feat that breaks the limits and debunked both instances of galaxian explosion(instance 1 wasn't at full power and might not have even been a physical attack. Instance 2 was just name and as clearly shown was not a galaxy, but multi planet with them most likely being on the smaller side). How others argue him is irrelevant to this match.

Ok but can they read the thoughts of every living creature on earth? not just humans, but nature as well. Spawn can. Like wise Violator can TP attack Spawn and cross dimensions with his. Im not sure why these two do not mind crush Ikki from what I seen alone.

Because it's not physically possible to affect any of his 6 senses. The 7th sense allows him to work beyond any of his body's limitations. It's not a matter of how strong the attack is because it's attacking something he doesn't rely on. He has to be attacked through his higher senses. Even prior he could break out the of gold saints(a top tier) illusions(despite saying it's not an illusion, he was lying to pretend like he's a god)

After getting his seventh he could even mentally assault them and read their minds despite having the 7th too

No Caption Provided

Well thats all grand and all, but seems to me the other self still has a soul and exists in that time flow to be affected by soul manipulation, soul attacks, or time manipulation. Untill I see solid feats otherwise.

They don't really. When one's summoned they have no proper way of refueling spent energy and have to either get magic from an external source or consume souls. He actually used this method to stay on earth 10 years after the holy grail was destroyed.

No Caption Provided

Ok, what does this have to do with Gilgamesh, Satan, and more having bad karma and doing evil things? Evil is anything negative done. This includes acts of taking life without the need of survival, torture, needless violence, ect. This stuff feeds Downing's power and allows him to manifest it into physical form.

Satan definitely never tortured at any point, or killed without reason. The only two times he even killed on panel was the ball of light which he didn't do choosingly and was a self defense mechanism(when he actually had control he didn't kill anybody and just took out the nukes) and did it to save instead off. The other time was with Devilman (and a few devilmen)whom he loved and did everything he could to protect and only killed him because that's what he wanted at that point(he had nothing left to live for) and so god couldn't get to him. He didn't kill the humans, that was a result of demon/devilmen war which he didn't participate in until Devilman and a few Devilmen where left and all the demons where dead(the war lasted 20 years, Satan would have finished things in a minute at most). They then attacked him with that fight ending with Satan removing Devilman's waist down as to incapitate him(he's survived worse). Both would be considered survival.

Also the karma ability is Spawn's. If he's weak to holy stuff, then why isn't his powers?

Yes, they were used on Downing himself. He being a angel of the highest order as well mate.

A angel not the angel I'm joking

The suit was feeding off Downing without his kowing like a parasite host, and corrupted Downings own holy healing abilities with the insects manifestation. all explain in recent issues of #240 to #248/ Add to all this Vampire are backed by heaven as warriors of heaven. Crazy I know, but they are explicite heaven's agents, and the insects work on them fine.

You know, that kind of sounds like they couldn't go all the way like with other scans where things are a bit more extreme than corrupiting and feeding on, but only to the degree that he doesn't notice. Being backed by heaven and being divine aren't really equatable.

I think Spawn and even Violator have better TP feats.Feats of seeing through the eyes of all life, hearing the thoughts of all humans, and even feeling the very pain of the living Earth as a whole. All this is proof of power. Satan has none of these feats. Violator like wise not grand in acope has mentally stagger Spawn till Spawn pushes him out.

The quantity of people affected is the same and Zenon(the demon in the scan) is only the third most powerful telepath. Psycho Jenny is more powerful and as I showed, Satan can force himself into her mind. Don't ask me why he shrinks and goes at her eye, it makes no sense as when he appears again he's helping Devilman regain control of his body(psycho jenny was trying to make Devilman go on a human kiling spree)

No Caption Provided

To compare it to Spawn terms Zenon is spawn and Psycho Jenny is Violator. Satan is at very least par if not above.

............what the flying monkey hoo ha am I looking at lol.

What? You've never seen a large breasted, cow, demon lady grow to nearly the size of Jupiter and hump the earth?

I will write this off as a reality warping on world level feat, which is meh to me. Spawn as a Hell King is easy world level of a higher caliber under his own power.I already showed world level ability via empathy, time manipulation, and telepathy, here is other accolades and feats of Hell Kings.In short I see Gilgamesh as a weak compared to this. Violator is like wise able to match Spawn to a degree, and Downing inherited the power of the suit with his crazy angel powers.

Okay and Gil pretty thoroughly beat her.

There is still no solid counter to my team invisibility, teleportation, and intangibility

I don't recall you bringing up invisibility, but that's not an issue. All heroic spirits can turn invisible and demeteralize, they still can detect each other with no problem

No Caption Provided

Same with teleportation

Demon's have all three(having trouble finding an invisibility feat though)

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

and as I showed before he can sense demons

Ikki doesn't have any of the three since the closest to invisibility was a character that had a cameloen like ability, mu is the only one shown to have teleportation and nobody has intangibility. Though he has the typical life sensing and always can search with invisibility.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@lukehero: Since I opened, he can close. I think we are ready for votes.

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lukehero: @sirfizzwhizz: Sounds like a good idea, we pretty much put out everything we could. Arguing beyond that isn't going to do much.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25  Edited By Skit
Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for vintage_spiderman
vintage_spiderman

6643

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Tough one :/

Avatar image for flash1812
Flash1812

5717

Forum Posts

63

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@sirfizzwhizz: @skit: @lukehero:I vote for Sirfizz as he proved that skits abilities wouldnt harm him much and I liked the way he used the Shadows along with Telepathy and Prep

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I vote for Sirfizz as he proved that skits abilities wouldnt harm him much and I liked the way he used the Shadows along with Telepathy and Prep

SFW didn't have prep...

Avatar image for flash1812
Flash1812

5717

Forum Posts

63

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31  Edited By Skit

@flash1812: What I mean is he didn't do anything that he couldn't during the match, he just used one of his powers to prevent a blitz I assume. Not something I feel should be considered noteworthy and solid reason why he deserves a win. I'm not saying you can't feel he wins, but his prep shouldn't be something particularly praised imo.

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Bump

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
SirFizzWhizz

37744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#34  Edited By SirFizzWhizz

@skit said:

@flash1812: What I mean is he didn't do anything that he couldn't during the match, he just used one of his powers to prevent a blitz I assume. Not something I feel should be considered noteworthy and solid reason why he deserves a win. I'm not saying you can't feel he wins, but his prep shouldn't be something particularly praised imo.

Oh, it matters with two super geniuses in tactics and planning. As well the start of Shadow walking. :) Fear the simple but effective prep.

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35  Edited By Skit
Avatar image for vintage_spiderman
vintage_spiderman

6643

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lukehero said:

@vintage_spiderman: Please vote@flash1812: Thanks for voting.

@skit: 0

@sirfizzwhizz 1

NO!

Lol kidding. I honestly think when put into a position where I have to choose one @Skit won to bringing up how Satan emits enough light innately to due away with shadows, his tp is at least on par or beyond SirFizzWhizz's teams capabilities via powerscaling to an extent, gold saint clothes are very bright as well, Satan can sense demons which makes up all of the opposing sides team, etc..

Sike!

Okay sorry, but I have really thought hard about this and @SirFizzWhizz actually won the debate.

  1. @Skit's team cannot cancel out all the shadows on the battlefield. Maybe most. Which means they can remain intangible.
  2. @Skit's team has inferior teamwork compared to @SirFizzWhizz team.
  3. Gold Saints clothes boosting Satan and Gilgamesh strength to whatever absurd degree you were getting at is too much of an unknown to speculate also why would a prideful angel such Satan accept such garments in the first place.
  4. Ikki no defense to telepathy.
  5. Gilgamesh no defense for time manipulation.
  6. There is probably more, but this is the most I am going to type. :P

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for skit
Skit

5292

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38  Edited By Skit
Avatar image for mickey-mouse
mickey-mouse

37113

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
mr_ingenuity

15432

Forum Posts

295

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

My vote goes to SirFizzWhizz, his debate was well constructed. My reasoning is SirFizz having enough info to learn about his characters, strategy allowed his team defenses that were that wasn't refuted very will if at all & attacks that would wear the enemy down. While Skits did commit a good portion of of his post explaining not all of his counters convince me.