Hela and Surtur (MCU) vs Doctor Manhattan (Watchmen)

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deactivated-5c1d15b8899b0

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Rules

  • Random encounter
  • Movie version of Hela e Surtur
  • Movie version of Doctor Manhattan
  • Surtur at full power
  • Standart weapons
  • No additional help
  • In character
  • Wins by death or incapacitation

Location: Asgard

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BobLeGod

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#2  Edited By BobLeGod

Is Hela really this powerful that she can be out up against Dr. Manhattan?

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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lol.....Manhattan stomps

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brucerogers

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Movie Manhattans best destructive feat was blowing up a tank. Not sure why people are wanking him so much.

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EzraArcher

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"I've walked on the surface of the sun"

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deactivated-5a89ca5697052

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Team or stalemate.

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Yosefscion

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"I've walked on the surface of the sun"

isn't walking on sun's photosphere only means that character have city-level durability?

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pansito

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not seeing how team harms him

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theCrazyBean

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He can't harm them, they can't harm him

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EzraArcher

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@yosefscion:

Not sure actually. Always saw it as his ability to exist where ever he pleases.

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APEX_pretador

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Manhattan blew up a tank, he solos toaa

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nwname

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#12 nwname  Moderator  Online

@yosefscion: its actually room level for human sized characters

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Outside_85

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Soo... since we are on Asgard, wont Surtur just bugger off to do his thing and kill himself, Asgard and possibly Hela in the process?

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deltahuman

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Manhattan turns them into a pile of shit. Period

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BobLeGod

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@brucerogers:

How is it wank? He rips the "intristic field" that holds people's atoms together and came back from being atomized a few seconds afterwards. He can create functional copies of himself and change his size. Claimed that he walked on the sun and was said to be able to turn a bullet into mercy or a gun into steam.

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APEX_pretador

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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pretty sure it was his energy that blew up that city so he stomps

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plotweapon16255

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Dr Manhattan stomps.

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deltahuman

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@apex_pretador:

Are you serious. He was pretty much implied to be a godlike entity, capable of virtually any effect limited only by his imagination and sense of apathy. His basic ability is manipulation of matter/energy at a subatomic level. That allows him to manipulate everything made of matter or energy. He has a different perspective of the universe altogether, something normal life forms can't perceive. That's where his apathy comes from. He is shown to be absolutely powerful and invulnerable to all harm even when his body is disintegrated. He can reconstruct it in a matter of seconds, which is the very first "trick" he learned. Jon has complete awareness of and control over atomic and subatomic particles and can see even neutrinos. He is also an omnikinetic. He does not need air, water, food or sleep and is immortal. He can teleport himself and others over limitless distances, an ability which Dreiberg had nicknamed Manhattan Transfer. Due to his perception of time, he sees the past, present and future simultaneously. Jon can see events so tiny and so fast, that they can be said to have never occurred at all. In his own words, the world's smartest man poses no more of a threat to him than does it's smartest termite." Normal life forms have inferior intellect. In addition to these powers, Jon is able produce multiple copies of himself which function independently of each other, project destructive energy, disintegrate people, create force fields, transmute, create and destroy matter, telekinesis, reverse entropy, and, he suggests, create life and has walk on the surface of the sun.

So far the only limitation we've seen of this guy is that even if he's omnipotent locally, he's still a puppet to God or whoever is at the helm of the universe. Even if he can see the future, he can't change it. In his own words, "We're all puppets Laurie, I'm just a puppet who can see the strings"

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destinyman75

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By feats Hela, by hype she's Hela She wins solo The hype is all the doc has really, few actual feats

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APEX_pretador

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@deltahuman:

It sounds good on paper, but

Surtur is also implied to be a godlike entity

With that said, does Dr manhattan have any speed feats to say he can react to Hela's attack? Or durability feats to suggest that his head can survive Hela's grip (which crushed Mjolnir)? Or destruction feats to suggest he can destroy them?

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Gaoron

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Manhattan

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deltahuman

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#23  Edited By deltahuman

@apex_pretador:

Manhattan could just remove the intrinsic field and disintegrate Hela or Surtur. He could BFR them onto a star surface in seconds, transmutate them into glass. If he can reassemble himself instantly after being totally disintegrated then I don't think Hela has any chance of harming him whatsoever. Even disintegrating him is possible only if his intrinsic field is removed. I don't think Hela or Sutur can do something remotely close to that. He can also see the future so he'd know what they'll do. He's virtually unbeatable unless by some high level reality warper or matter/energy manipulator of his level is involved.

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jamespacker

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Dr Manhattan stomps.

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APEX_pretador

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@apex_pretador:

Manhattan could just remove the intrinsic field and disintegrate Hela or Surtur.

Had he ever disnitegrated anyone so durable?

He could BFR them onto a star surface in seconds,

Can eh do this before they attack him? Is it in character for him to use these tactics

transmutate them into glass.

Has he ever done that to anyone with super-powers? Or any living being?

You know, firestorm's powers of transmutation don't work on organic beings.

If he can reassemble himself instantly after being totally disintegrated

Did he do that?

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BabyDarkseid

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manhattan waves

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deltahuman

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#27  Edited By deltahuman

@apex_pretador:

1. Disintegrating by removing intrinsic field should have nothing to do with durability. While the field in question is fictional, it's real life counterpart would be the strong nuclear force. It binds protons and neutrons together to form the nucleus. However durable you may be, ultimately everything is made of protons and neutrons (baryonic matter). Removing the field means deconstructing you.

2. The one time he fought somebody, it was Adrian Veidt. And he ultimately did nothing to him because nothing posed a threat to him. It was shown that in the Watchman universe, US won the Vietnam war and that was due to Dr Manhattan. He grew to the size of a mountain and disintegrated Vietcong soldiers by thought. But point is, their attacks would do nothing to him. Projectiles pass through him. You can't cut or hurt him. In character whenever he wants to harm something he just disintegrates it. Only once did we see him using telekinesis to dismantle a tank instantly and turn it into a ball of metal.

3. He can create new matter at will. He transmutated martial soil into a giant structure with thought. While he hasn't transmutated any human that I can remember, there's one scene where the Comedian rebukes him because he didn't prevent one Lady from injuring the comedian's face because she was pregnant. The comedian says that Dr Manhattan could've killed the lady or turned her into glass or something if he wanted. The comedian was the first person to notice Dr Manhattan's apathy. At the end, he announced that he was going to another galaxy to create life. So yeah he can even create life. He can manipulate matter both organic and inorganic because ultimately everything is made of subatomic particles and he manipulates them.

4. Yes he reassembling himself from subatomic particles was the first thing he learnt. The first time he appeared, it took days for him to construct himself. The second time Adrian Veidt used a bait to remove his intrinsic field, he reassembled himself in moments and grew to a giant size. He's so powerful, a device he constructed telekinetically was used to obliterate New York and left a huge crater. And that's just a device He assembled to solve the worlds energy crisis.

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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helloman

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Dr. Manhattan wins.

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deltahuman

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@DammeFavour: yeah. The energy signature was his. That's what ended the cold war and he left earth.

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Outside_85

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@DammeFavour: yeah. The energy signature was his. That's what ended the cold war and he left earth.

Wasn't the gist that Adrian had copied Manhattan's energy signature through that reactor Manhattan was building when Rorchach met him?

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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@outside_85: that would mean he has more dc than these guys combined

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deltahuman

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@outside_85: Yeah could be that too. Whatever it is, Manhattan made the device and imbued it with energy or something. Maybe Adrian copied the energy signature and reverse engineered the device to make it into some kind of a mega weapon.

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blackknighting

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Doc wins. Hela is useless, Surtur destroys Asgard and Doc comes back to life.

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APEX_pretador

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@deltahuman:

So Dr manhattan is a city buster with tech?

Yes he reassembling himself from subatomic particles was the first thing he learnt. The first time he appeared, it took days for him to construct himself. The second time Adrian Veidt used a bait to remove his intrinsic field, he reassembled himself in moments and grew to a giant size

Interesting. If he can do this instantly, then its okay but if he still takes days, then technically its a loss in battle forum terms

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Skrskr

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How do they put down someone who doesn’t need to exist physically?

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deltahuman

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#37  Edited By deltahuman

@apex_pretador:

Manhattan didn't bust the city. A device he was building to solve the world's energy crisis by his own power was reverse engineered into a bomb by Ozymandias. Manhattan was tricked by Ozy into going to a self imposed exile on Mars by giving his ex gf cancer and blaming him and then Ozy made the bomb. He made sure Manhattan couldn't see the future by firing Tachyons. If Jon himself wants to build a bomb, he could've built something that could Destroy earth or more. His intellect is infinitely superior to Adrian.

Bottom line is, Jon Stomps in many different ways.

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thanosii

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@deltahuman: This is not a prep battle so building a bomb doesn't count. Surtur had the best DC hear so he solos. Also hela can control her molecules seen by how she changes her hair to a hat or changes outfits instantly or can heal immediately. She is also virtually immortal even Odin couldn't kill her

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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@thanosii: thats not controlling her molecules, loki and thor do the same thing and odin is featless, wolverine also heals instantly and it doesn't mean he controls his molecules

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Superhero24

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By feats MCU team.

By assumption Manhattan wins.

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DarkPsychicLord_Prime

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Stalemate, neither can put each other down.

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deltahuman

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#42  Edited By deltahuman

@thanosii:

No No, I never said Manhattan needs prep. I said he one shots both Hela and Surtur and he does. I've listed plenty of feats from the movie in my previous posts. I've gone so far as to post many subplots of the movie itself.

Hela can't control her molecules. Loki can control and change his outfits too. That's not matter manipulation. Odin couldn't kill Hela because she draws power from Asgard too like him. He would have to destroy Asgard to kill her. So she was imprisoned. Hela isn't immortal. Surtur vaporized her.

You haven't read my previous points. Manhattan can win this in many different ways. MANHATTAN ONE SHOTS

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jamespacker

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Zetsu-San

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By feats MCU team.

By assumption Manhattan wins.

I haven't seen Ragnarok. What feats do they have to prove they can kill an energy being or resist transmutation and molecular manipulation?

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deactivated-61e3068763b41

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How anyone can think this is even a match up is bewildering. He literally waves his hand

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EmperorxHadesx420

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Doc. Hela And Surtur are nothing but one movie wonders, hence their trash ass as shit.

He takes 9.9/10

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blackknighting

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@thanosii:

Prime Surtur has only a few minutes of screen time, he was hurt by Hela's swords and he might had died along with Asgard. Hela has no molecular manipulation nor magic.

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Superhero24

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@superhero24 said:

By feats MCU team.

By assumption Manhattan wins.

I haven't seen Ragnarok. What feats do they have to prove they can kill an energy being or resist transmutation and molecular manipulation?

Spoilers:

Surtur destroys the entirety of Asgard which seemed multiple times bigger than the Sokovia landmass in AoU. Hela breaks Mjolnir which has been stated in two different movies to be metal from the core of a star. Thor also states the Revengers couldn't defeat Hela. The Revengers has Thor, Hulk, Loki, and Valkyrie in it. Thor was also more powerful than ever with his lightning mode.

I am not saying Manhattan loses. In fact, I think he would win. I am just using comic vine logic. If the feats aren't present, he cant do it. He hasn't transmute anything before let alone beings on Surtur's level. The issue they would have with manhattan is that he did come back from disintegration, so even if they could disintegrate him he would still come back. In that perspective, manhattan would outlast them.

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OOCMikeyy

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He'd have blue balls, but he still wins

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Necromancer76

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