Hawkeye (MCU) vs Green Arrow (CW)

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#101 Edited by ganon15 (7294 posts) - - Show Bio

5 seasons of feats vs minimal screen time in 4 films

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#102 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@ganon15:

Correct. And yet, Hawkeye has gained comparable feats in that minimal screen time.

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#103 Posted by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@bladeoffury: Why ignore this?

No Caption Provided

Clint's speed is nowhere close to this.

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#104 Edited by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

I think the OP intended it to be TV versions. We all know that comic characters are leagues above TV characters. That wouldn't be fair to Hawkeye lol, unless he's allowed comic feats too. If we're going by TV, Clint is faster than Ollie, as outlined earlier.

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#105 Posted by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

I think the OP intended it to be TV versions. We all know that comic characters are leagues above TV characters. That wouldn't be fair to Hawkeye lol, unless he's allowed comic feats too. If we're going by TV, Clint is faster than Ollie, as outlined earlier.

That's not comic version. That's CW Ollie. These feats are canon.

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#106 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?

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#107 Posted by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?

No Caption Provided

Oliver shot the first arrow and in the time the arrow moved a couple ft, he had shot two more. Its actually in line with his shooting the grenade out of air feat.

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#108 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@bladeoffury said:

@rbt:

I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?

Oliver shot the first arrow and in the time the arrow moved a couple ft, he had shot two more. Its actually in line with his shooting the grenade out of air feat.

No Caption Provided

The scan doesn't show that he shot those arrows one by one, he probably shot them at the same time in one nock, like he often does in the comics.

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#110 Posted by deactivated-59d29c479f1ca (4066 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightmare52 said:
@bladeoffury said:

The first time he was mind-controlled, and he was not himself.

mmm,

The second time he arguably got better, as he was able to land some hits on Natasha. Yes, Natasha is probably slightly better in H2H, but it's not by a large margin, and she is damn good.

still he did defeat her.

ollie >> natasha.

rest of ur ABC logic is based on inconsistency.

Not ABC logic. I'm simply saying that Hawkeye has held is own against BP (the master of H2H combat) in H2H combat. This is an extremely impressive feat.

he still lost to BW .

BW<<ollie.

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#111 Posted by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@bladeoffury said:

@rbt:

I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?

Oliver shot the first arrow and in the time the arrow moved a couple ft, he had shot two more. Its actually in line with his shooting the grenade out of air feat.

No Caption Provided

The scan doesn't show that he shot those arrows one by one, he probably shot them at the same time in one nock, like he often does in the comics.

Arrows wouldn't be seperated if he did that.

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#112 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@bladeoffury said:
@nightmare52 said:
@bladeoffury said:

The first time he was mind-controlled, and he was not himself.

mmm,

The second time he arguably got better, as he was able to land some hits on Natasha. Yes, Natasha is probably slightly better in H2H, but it's not by a large margin, and she is damn good.

still he did defeat her.

ollie >> natasha.

rest of ur ABC logic is based on inconsistency.

Not ABC logic. I'm simply saying that Hawkeye has held is own against BP (the master of H2H combat) in H2H combat. This is an extremely impressive feat.

he still lost to BW .

BW<<ollie.

Firstly, he didn't necessarily lose to her. They both got equal hits in.

Second, please prove that BW is any inferior to White Canary, who fought equally with Oliver.

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#113 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@bladeoffury said:
@rbt said:
@bladeoffury said:

@rbt:

I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?

Oliver shot the first arrow and in the time the arrow moved a couple ft, he had shot two more. Its actually in line with his shooting the grenade out of air feat.

No Caption Provided

The scan doesn't show that he shot those arrows one by one, he probably shot them at the same time in one nock, like he often does in the comics.

Arrows wouldn't be seperated if he did that.

Hawkeye begs to differ.

No Caption Provided

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#114 Edited by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@bladeoffury: What? I meant separated in distance traveled. Of course they would have gap between them. But it won't be like it is in scan. Where one is ahead and second is trailing it and so on.

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#115 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

Oh sorry, misunderstood you. You have a point though.

If we use the comics CW version, I can see Ollie taking this with extreme ease, and I am not planning to debate for Hawkeye (since he's going to get stomped). I do think that the TV versions are used in this fight, in which case Hawkeye will defeat Oliver, unless I will be proven otherwise. Would you like to debate using the TV versions?

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#116 Posted by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

Oh sorry, misunderstood you. You have a point though.

If we use the comics CW version, I can see Ollie taking this with extreme ease, and I am not planning to debate for Hawkeye (since he's going to get stomped). I do think that the TV versions are used in this fight, in which case Hawkeye will defeat Oliver, unless I will be proven otherwise. Would you like to debate using the TV versions?

The only thing I have brought up from comics is the rapidfire scan. His grenade shooting feat happened in TV, which makes him much faster at draw than Clint. His other reflex feats like catching arrows and shooting arrows out of air makes him much faster in reflexes. And I don't think its even debatable who would win in cqc. Ollie would outright stomp Clint.

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#117 Edited by deactivated-59d29c479f1ca (4066 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightmare52 said:

he still lost to BW .

BW<<ollie.

Firstly, he didn't necessarily lose to her. They both got equal hits in.

he got koe'd once , HE was saved by SW from BW.

Second, please prove that BW is any inferior to White Canary, who fought equally with Oliver.

she defeated Vandal Savage, Damien Darhk , etc. in H2H.

WC >>BW in H2H.

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#118 Edited by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

His grenade shooting feat happened in TV, which makes him much faster at draw than Clint.

I already outlined how Clint is faster at draw than Ollie. It took one whole second for Ollie to shoot the arrow in the grenade shooting scene, while Hawkeye did not only shoot the arrow, but also nocked it in the same time period, as seen in the GIF.

His draw time is also faster than a second (faster than Ollie's) in CW, as seen here:

Loading Video...

His other reflex feats like catching arrows and shooting arrows out of air makes him much faster in reflexes.

Loki's blasts travel much faster than arrows, considering they reach the target instantly. And yet, Hawkeye dodged it. His reflexes are at least as good as Ollie's based on this.

And I don't think its even debatable who would win in cqc. Ollie would outright stomp Clint.

If the combatants start a certain distance apart, it wouldn't even come to cqc. Even if does, Hawkeye held his own against BP, as seen in the video above. But it shouldn't come to that, considering Hawkeye would K.O./disorientate Ollie with the concussive wave arrow before they even get close to each other.

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#119 Edited by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@bladeoffury:

I already outlined how Clint is faster at draw than Ollie. It took one whole second for Ollie to shoot the arrow in the grenade shooting scene, while Hawkeye did not only shoot the arrow, but also nocked it in the same time period, as seen in the GIF.

So, it took 1 second for the grenade from the launcher to move a couple meters? Something which moves at 76mps? Because that's exactly the time it took for Oliver to do everything he did.

Loki's blasts travel much faster than arrows, considering they reach the target instantly. And yet, Hawkeye dodged it. His reflexes are at least as good as Ollie's based on this.

Based on what? They can be tracked by naked eye so they obviously aren't as fast. Oliver's reflex feats include catching an arrow from point blank range. That's better than sidestepping a blast of unknown speed.

If the combatants start a certain distance apart, it wouldn't even come to cqc. Even if does, Hawkeye held his own against BP, as seen in the video above. But it shouldn't come to that, considering Hawkeye would K.O./disorientate Ollie with the concussive wave arrow before they even get close to each other.

Only it always does. I mean, going by that logic, Nat v Clint should never have come to cqc either, right? But it did. Same with T'Challa. Or Vision. Oliver always closes in unless he has some reason not to. Ollie would outright stomp Clint in cqc and at range he is much faster at draw and has better reflexes. Clint is not winning this even 1 times out of 10.

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#120 Posted by the_wspanialy (4321 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver. Is this even up for debate?

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#121 Posted by blackpantherisb (7573 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow wrecks

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#122 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

So, it took 1 second for the grenade from the launcher to move a couple meters? Something which moves at 76mps? Because that's exactly the time it took for Oliver to do everything he did.

Yea it's weird, that grenade launcher was particularly slow. If you watch the video in slow mo, you will see that it's exactly one second. So yes, it took Oliver 1 second to shoot the arrow.

Based on what? They can be tracked by naked eye so they obviously aren't as fast.

What? Loki's blasts cannot be tracked by the eye.

No Caption Provided

This GIF is 0.2 seconds long. It took Loki's staff that time to reach a target over 20 meters away. That's at least as fast as an arrow.

Oliver's reflex feats include catching an arrow from point blank range. That's better than sidestepping a blast of unknown speed.

Catching an arrow requires less speed than diving away from an object as fast as an arrow after it had been fired.

Since that is Hawkeye's only speed feat, let's assume that Ollie has better reflexes and agility. That would prevent Hawkeye from hitting him with the arrows directly, but the special effects of his trick arrows will take Ollie down, such as the explosions, concussive waves, and electricity.

I mean, going by that logic, Nat v Clint should never have come to cqc either, right? But it did.

The first time they fought, Clint was mind-controlled, and Natasha actually sneaked up on him from behind. That is the only way she got close.

The second time was in Civil War, and I seriously doubt Clint would use his harmful arrows against his best friend.

Same with T'Challa.

After T'Challa caught Clint's arrows, they exploded in his face. BP was unaffected because of his vibranium suit, which Ollie doesn't have. If Ollie caught those arrows like BP did, it's game over.

Or Vision.

Vision was already in close quarters before the fight began, and Hawkeye still managed to shoot an arrow which Vision avoided by turning intangible.

Oliver always closes in unless he has some reason not to.

That is true, but my argument is that Hawkeye will take him out before he closes the gap.

Ollie would outright stomp Clint in cqc and at range he is much faster at draw and has better reflexes.

Are you serious? Please read post #99, in which I already proved that Clint is faster at draw, and please provide a rebuttal if you still think so.

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#123 Posted by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is hilarious.

Oliver. Is this even up for debate?

^^^

Hawkeye is Nyssa level.

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#124 Posted by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@bladeoffury:

Yea it's weird, that grenade launcher was particularly slow. If you watch the video in slow mo, you will see that it's exactly one second. So yes, it took Oliver 1 second to shoot the arrow.

No. The grenade launcher was weirdly slow or anything. Oliver was just fast.

What? Loki's blasts cannot be tracked by the eye.

So, Loki's blast are as fast as an arrow. Okay. Considering the type of gif you provided for Clint dodging it(with a cut scene), I can provide similar gifs of Oliver dodging bullets. So, Oliver is a bullet timer?

Catching an arrow requires less speed than diving away from an object as fast as an arrow after it had been fired.

No it doesn't. Not in the least. Dodging an arrow is not even close to as impressive as catching it. To dodge an arrow, all you have to do is sidestep before the arrow closes the gap. To catch it however, you have to be fast enough to track the arrow exactly where they are.

Since that is Hawkeye's only speed feat, let's assume that Ollie has better reflexes and agility. That would prevent Hawkeye from hitting him with the arrows directly, but the special effects of his trick arrows will take Ollie down, such as the explosions, concussive waves, and electricity.

Assuming they connect, of course. Oliver has been in much bigger explosions than they exploding arrows Clint fired at T'Challa and has come out unscathed.

He was inches away from an explosion caused by combination of Atom's hard light, Kara's heat vision and Firestorm's fire and he was not hurt in the least.

No Caption Provided

There are several such instances. Oliver was hit in chest with Staff of Horus' energy attack and he tanked it. Same attack hurt Barry.

The first time they fought, Clint was mind-controlled, and Natasha actually sneaked up on him from behind. That is the only way she got close.

Mind control had absolutely nothing to do with it, considering Clint was actually still trying to shoot her. But failed to connect.

After T'Challa caught Clint's arrows, they exploded in his face. BP was unaffected because of his vibranium suit, which Ollie doesn't have. If Ollie caught those arrows like BP did, it's game over.

Oliver generally dodges arrows. He rarely catches it, so it won't be a problem If Clint tries same thing with Oliver, the arrows would explode a few hundred ft behind him.

Vision was already in close quarters before the fight began, and Hawkeye still managed to shoot an arrow which Vision avoided by turning intangible.

Clint actually charged. But regardless, if Oliver want to close in there's not much Clint can do to stop him.

That is true, but my argument is that Hawkeye will take him out before he closes the gap.

So, Clint would take out Oliver before he can close in 15 ft? Despite Oliver being a casual arrow timer, durable and hell and actually pretty fast on his feet? You're reaching.

Are you serious? Please read post #99, in which I already proved that Clint is faster at draw, and please provide a rebuttal if you still think so.

You did not prove anything. You ignored a feat of Oliver which quite clearly trumps anything Clint has done.

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#126 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

Just a moment, can you please clarify the gap between the two combatants? Before you said the default is 10 ft, and now 15 ft. What is the exact distance they start? Because if it's far away, I stand by my decision, but if it's that close, than Hawekeye will probably not use his trick arrows at all.

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#127 Posted by deactivated-5a220d15cc740 (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder why this is still going on? Oliver clearly stomps.

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#128 Posted by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

Just a moment, can you please clarify the gap between the two combatants? Before you said the default is 10 ft, and now 15 ft. What is the exact distance they start? Because if it's far away, I stand by my decision, but if it's that close, than Hawekeye will probably not use his trick arrows at all.

Battle forum rules-

When there is no information, we use these as the default battle conditions:

A populated city street, starting 10 ft apart.

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#129 Posted by Thoromdil (1921 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye is a supporting character in MCU, he doesn't have any impressive feats... The only duel he's ever had without shooting arrows (Brainwashed vs Black Widow) he lost. That... really doesn't put him in the same league with Oliver's h2h skills from CW.

So they are gonna both just shoot their arrows out of the trajectory until they are empty. Then they are gonna fight hand 2 hand and Clint will lose.

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#130 Posted by o0Deadman0o (674 posts) - - Show Bio

MCU Hawkeye's head met a metal railing courtesy of one Black Widow. In terms of H2h he didn't show much. CQC Ollie feeds him an explosive arrow.

too many trick arrows to even try and think about the outcome.

I've watched a few of the recent arrow episodes, how are his improvising skills lately? I'm sure Ollie will realize eventually he has nothing on Hawkeye in the archery department so he could possibly rethink his strategy to make it h2h.

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#131 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

In that case, I can see Ollie taking this, considering it's gonna be H2H, and Hawkeye won't use any dangerous arrows when they are so close. Hawkeye is definitely a better archer however, but it doesn't matter in this fight.

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#132 Posted by DrCookieMuffins (60 posts) - - Show Bio

hawkeye curbstomps the arrowverse

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#133 Posted by imagein (902 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow.

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#134 Posted by deactivated-5bdbf1dc6fdcc (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Clint has better arrows nut in skill, h2h, speed/reflexes, martial arts etc Oliver stomps with ease not mentioning his parkour skills

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#135 Posted by deactivated-5c6891767abb2 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow curbstomps not even debating. Hawkeye only has better tech but it isn't most important.

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#136 Posted by deactivated-5c6891767abb2 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio

@ganon15: lool he has no comparable feats. Roy could beat him

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#137 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7991 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver..Lol this isn't debatable.

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#138 Posted by Supermanthor (22700 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver

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#139 Edited by deactivated-5c15205dbdcac (503 posts) - - Show Bio

I say oliver is a better h2h combatant but Clint has better archery skills

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#140 Posted by RanaProGamer (1668 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow, haven't seen much feats for Hawkeye that can prove that he can beat Ollie.

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#141 Posted by deactivated-5c6891767abb2 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio

@bpg: in skills in archery Ollie, Malcolm even Roy outclasses him. Clint has super technologically advanced bow with greater firepower and range. Skills> technology

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#142 Posted by deactivated-5c15205dbdcac (503 posts) - - Show Bio

@arthurcurry89: I don't see Oliver ,Roy or Malcolm replicating this :

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

(Out of order) Clint fire's 3 arrows in 1.9 seconds and he says he can do even better then that

No Caption Provided

Nuff said...

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#143 Edited by deactivated-5c6891767abb2 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio

@bpg: Oliver once was shoting backwards ( i don't remember exactly when in season 4 ). Ollie who has normal bow can shot at same distances and ollie once quickly has shoted 3 small spots in less than 2 seconds. He is faster than Clint and more accuracy he has.

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#144 Edited by deactivated-5c6891767abb2 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio

@bpg said:

@arthurcurry89: I don't see Oliver ,Roy or Malcolm replicating this :

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
No Caption Provided

Using my timer it was 1.6-1.7 second.

(Out of order) Clint fire's 3 arrows in 1.9 seconds and he says he can do even better then that

No Caption Provided

Nuff said...

Like i told u in seperate comment

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#145 Posted by maestromage (1673 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow. Ollie has better physicals, is faster and more skilled. Their archery skills are comparable but Ollie is a casual arrow timer so he has the advantage there. The only category where Clit might have an advantage is tech.

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#146 Posted by deactivated-5c15205dbdcac (503 posts) - - Show Bio

@bpg said:

@arthurcurry89: I don't see Oliver ,Roy or Malcolm replicating this :

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
No Caption Provided

Using my timer it was 1.6-1.7 second.

(Out of order) Clint fire's 3 arrows in 1.9 seconds and he says he can do even better then that

But like I said Clint stated he could do even better and Clint was able to pressure Black Panther (Bullet timer)

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Nuff said...

Like i told u in seperate comment

TBH I lthough oliver stomps Clint but after the CAV of Hawkeye vs Green Arrow I changed my mind (So I suggest you go check it out)

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#147 Posted by RBT (29881 posts) - - Show Bio

@bpg:

(Out of order) Clint fire's 3 arrows in 1.9 seconds and he says he can do even better then that

No Caption Provided

That's Oliver firing two more arrows in the time it takes the first one to move about 10ft. Probably less. Clint is outclassed in draw speed as well.

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#148 Posted by Lan_Fan (18117 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye all the way

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To the hospital.

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#149 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow wins.

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#150 Posted by deactivated-5c6891767abb2 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio

@bpg said:
@arthurcurry89 said:
@bpg said:

@arthurcurry89: I don't see Oliver ,Roy or Malcolm replicating this :

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
No Caption Provided

Using my timer it was 1.6-1.7 second.

(Out of order) Clint fire's 3 arrows in 1.9 seconds and he says he can do even better then that

But like I said Clint stated he could do even better and Clint was able to pressure Black Panther (Bullet timer)

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Nuff said...

Like i told u in seperate comment

TBH I lthough oliver stomps Clint but after the CAV of Hawkeye vs Green Arrow I changed my mind (So I suggest you go check it out)

I have seen CaV and arguments about Oliver are more impressive and convincing.