I think the OP intended it to be TV versions. We all know that comic characters are leagues above TV characters. That wouldn't be fair to Hawkeye lol, unless he's allowed comic feats too. If we're going by TV, Clint is faster than Ollie, as outlined earlier.
I think the OP intended it to be TV versions. We all know that comic characters are leagues above TV characters. That wouldn't be fair to Hawkeye lol, unless he's allowed comic feats too. If we're going by TV, Clint is faster than Ollie, as outlined earlier.
That's not comic version. That's CW Ollie. These feats are canon.
I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?
I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?
Oliver shot the first arrow and in the time the arrow moved a couple ft, he had shot two more. Its actually in line with his shooting the grenade out of air feat.
I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?
Oliver shot the first arrow and in the time the arrow moved a couple ft, he had shot two more. Its actually in line with his shooting the grenade out of air feat.
The scan doesn't show that he shot those arrows one by one, he probably shot them at the same time in one nock, like he often does in the comics.
The first time he was mind-controlled, and he was not himself.
mmm,
The second time he arguably got better, as he was able to land some hits on Natasha. Yes, Natasha is probably slightly better in H2H, but it's not by a large margin, and she is damn good.
still he did defeat her.
ollie >> natasha.
rest of ur ABC logic is based on inconsistency.
Not ABC logic. I'm simply saying that Hawkeye has held is own against BP (the master of H2H combat) in H2H combat. This is an extremely impressive feat.
I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?
Oliver shot the first arrow and in the time the arrow moved a couple ft, he had shot two more. Its actually in line with his shooting the grenade out of air feat.
The scan doesn't show that he shot those arrows one by one, he probably shot them at the same time in one nock, like he often does in the comics.
The first time he was mind-controlled, and he was not himself.
mmm,
The second time he arguably got better, as he was able to land some hits on Natasha. Yes, Natasha is probably slightly better in H2H, but it's not by a large margin, and she is damn good.
still he did defeat her.
ollie >> natasha.
rest of ur ABC logic is based on inconsistency.
Not ABC logic. I'm simply saying that Hawkeye has held is own against BP (the master of H2H combat) in H2H combat. This is an extremely impressive feat.
he still lost to BW .
BW<<ollie.
Firstly, he didn't necessarily lose to her. They both got equal hits in.
Second, please prove that BW is any inferior to White Canary, who fought equally with Oliver.
I cannot entirely understand than scan though, what did Ollie do that is so special? The policemen bullets missed, and all Ollie did was shoot some arrows. How does that portray reflexes and draw speed?
Oliver shot the first arrow and in the time the arrow moved a couple ft, he had shot two more. Its actually in line with his shooting the grenade out of air feat.
The scan doesn't show that he shot those arrows one by one, he probably shot them at the same time in one nock, like he often does in the comics.
@bladeoffury: What? I meant separated in distance traveled. Of course they would have gap between them. But it won't be like it is in scan. Where one is ahead and second is trailing it and so on.
Oh sorry, misunderstood you. You have a point though.
If we use the comics CW version, I can see Ollie taking this with extreme ease, and I am not planning to debate for Hawkeye (since he's going to get stomped). I do think that the TV versions are used in this fight, in which case Hawkeye will defeat Oliver, unless I will be proven otherwise. Would you like to debate using the TV versions?
Oh sorry, misunderstood you. You have a point though.
If we use the comics CW version, I can see Ollie taking this with extreme ease, and I am not planning to debate for Hawkeye (since he's going to get stomped). I do think that the TV versions are used in this fight, in which case Hawkeye will defeat Oliver, unless I will be proven otherwise. Would you like to debate using the TV versions?
The only thing I have brought up from comics is the rapidfire scan. His grenade shooting feat happened in TV, which makes him much faster at draw than Clint. His other reflex feats like catching arrows and shooting arrows out of air makes him much faster in reflexes. And I don't think its even debatable who would win in cqc. Ollie would outright stomp Clint.
His grenade shooting feat happened in TV, which makes him much faster at draw than Clint.
I already outlined how Clint is faster at draw than Ollie. It took one whole second for Ollie to shoot the arrow in the grenade shooting scene, while Hawkeye did not only shoot the arrow, but also nocked it in the same time period, as seen in the GIF.
His draw time is also faster than a second (faster than Ollie's) in CW, as seen here:
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His other reflex feats like catching arrows and shooting arrows out of air makes him much faster in reflexes.
Loki's blasts travel much faster than arrows, considering they reach the target instantly. And yet, Hawkeye dodged it. His reflexes are at least as good as Ollie's based on this.
And I don't think its even debatable who would win in cqc. Ollie would outright stomp Clint.
If the combatants start a certain distance apart, it wouldn't even come to cqc. Even if does, Hawkeye held his own against BP, as seen in the video above. But it shouldn't come to that, considering Hawkeye would K.O./disorientate Ollie with the concussive wave arrow before they even get close to each other.
I already outlined how Clint is faster at draw than Ollie. It took one whole second for Ollie to shoot the arrow in the grenade shooting scene, while Hawkeye did not only shoot the arrow, but also nocked it in the same time period, as seen in the GIF.
So, it took 1 second for the grenade from the launcher to move a couple meters? Something which moves at 76mps? Because that's exactly the time it took for Oliver to do everything he did.
Loki's blasts travel much faster than arrows, considering they reach the target instantly. And yet, Hawkeye dodged it. His reflexes are at least as good as Ollie's based on this.
Based on what? They can be tracked by naked eye so they obviously aren't as fast. Oliver's reflex feats include catching an arrow from point blank range. That's better than sidestepping a blast of unknown speed.
If the combatants start a certain distance apart, it wouldn't even come to cqc. Even if does, Hawkeye held his own against BP, as seen in the video above. But it shouldn't come to that, considering Hawkeye would K.O./disorientate Ollie with the concussive wave arrow before they even get close to each other.
Only it always does. I mean, going by that logic, Nat v Clint should never have come to cqc either, right? But it did. Same with T'Challa. Or Vision. Oliver always closes in unless he has some reason not to. Ollie would outright stomp Clint in cqc and at range he is much faster at draw and has better reflexes. Clint is not winning this even 1 times out of 10.
So, it took 1 second for the grenade from the launcher to move a couple meters? Something which moves at 76mps? Because that's exactly the time it took for Oliver to do everything he did.
Yea it's weird, that grenade launcher was particularly slow. If you watch the video in slow mo, you will see that it's exactly one second. So yes, it took Oliver 1 second to shoot the arrow.
Based on what? They can be tracked by naked eye so they obviously aren't as fast.
What? Loki's blasts cannot be tracked by the eye.
This GIF is 0.2 seconds long. It took Loki's staff that time to reach a target over 20 meters away. That's at least as fast as an arrow.
Oliver's reflex feats include catching an arrow from point blank range. That's better than sidestepping a blast of unknown speed.
Catching an arrow requires less speed than diving away from an object as fast as an arrow after it had been fired.
Since that is Hawkeye's only speed feat, let's assume that Ollie has better reflexes and agility. That would prevent Hawkeye from hitting him with the arrows directly, but the special effects of his trick arrows will take Ollie down, such as the explosions, concussive waves, and electricity.
I mean, going by that logic, Nat v Clint should never have come to cqc either, right? But it did.
The first time they fought, Clint was mind-controlled, and Natasha actually sneaked up on him from behind. That is the only way she got close.
The second time was in Civil War, and I seriously doubt Clint would use his harmful arrows against his best friend.
Same with T'Challa.
After T'Challa caught Clint's arrows, they exploded in his face. BP was unaffected because of his vibranium suit, which Ollie doesn't have. If Ollie caught those arrows like BP did, it's game over.
Or Vision.
Vision was already in close quarters before the fight began, and Hawkeye still managed to shoot an arrow which Vision avoided by turning intangible.
Oliver always closes in unless he has some reason not to.
That is true, but my argument is that Hawkeye will take him out before he closes the gap.
Ollie would outright stomp Clint in cqc and at range he is much faster at draw and has better reflexes.
Are you serious? Please read post #99, in which I already proved that Clint is faster at draw, and please provide a rebuttal if you still think so.
Yea it's weird, that grenade launcher was particularly slow. If you watch the video in slow mo, you will see that it's exactly one second. So yes, it took Oliver 1 second to shoot the arrow.
No. The grenade launcher was weirdly slow or anything. Oliver was just fast.
What? Loki's blasts cannot be tracked by the eye.
So, Loki's blast are as fast as an arrow. Okay. Considering the type of gif you provided for Clint dodging it(with a cut scene), I can provide similar gifs of Oliver dodging bullets. So, Oliver is a bullet timer?
Catching an arrow requires less speed than diving away from an object as fast as an arrow after it had been fired.
No it doesn't. Not in the least. Dodging an arrow is not even close to as impressive as catching it. To dodge an arrow, all you have to do is sidestep before the arrow closes the gap. To catch it however, you have to be fast enough to track the arrow exactly where they are.
Since that is Hawkeye's only speed feat, let's assume that Ollie has better reflexes and agility. That would prevent Hawkeye from hitting him with the arrows directly, but the special effects of his trick arrows will take Ollie down, such as the explosions, concussive waves, and electricity.
Assuming they connect, of course. Oliver has been in much bigger explosions than they exploding arrows Clint fired at T'Challa and has come out unscathed.
He was inches away from an explosion caused by combination of Atom's hard light, Kara's heat vision and Firestorm's fire and he was not hurt in the least.
There are several such instances. Oliver was hit in chest with Staff of Horus' energy attack and he tanked it. Same attack hurt Barry.
The first time they fought, Clint was mind-controlled, and Natasha actually sneaked up on him from behind. That is the only way she got close.
Mind control had absolutely nothing to do with it, considering Clint was actually still trying to shoot her. But failed to connect.
After T'Challa caught Clint's arrows, they exploded in his face. BP was unaffected because of his vibranium suit, which Ollie doesn't have. If Ollie caught those arrows like BP did, it's game over.
Oliver generally dodges arrows. He rarely catches it, so it won't be a problem If Clint tries same thing with Oliver, the arrows would explode a few hundred ft behind him.
Vision was already in close quarters before the fight began, and Hawkeye still managed to shoot an arrow which Vision avoided by turning intangible.
Clint actually charged. But regardless, if Oliver want to close in there's not much Clint can do to stop him.
That is true, but my argument is that Hawkeye will take him out before he closes the gap.
So, Clint would take out Oliver before he can close in 15 ft? Despite Oliver being a casual arrow timer, durable and hell and actually pretty fast on his feet? You're reaching.
Are you serious? Please read post #99, in which I already proved that Clint is faster at draw, and please provide a rebuttal if you still think so.
You did not prove anything. You ignored a feat of Oliver which quite clearly trumps anything Clint has done.
Just a moment, can you please clarify the gap between the two combatants? Before you said the default is 10 ft, and now 15 ft. What is the exact distance they start? Because if it's far away, I stand by my decision, but if it's that close, than Hawekeye will probably not use his trick arrows at all.
Just a moment, can you please clarify the gap between the two combatants? Before you said the default is 10 ft, and now 15 ft. What is the exact distance they start? Because if it's far away, I stand by my decision, but if it's that close, than Hawekeye will probably not use his trick arrows at all.
Battle forum rules-
When there is no information, we use these as the default battle conditions:
Hawkeye is a supporting character in MCU, he doesn't have any impressive feats... The only duel he's ever had without shooting arrows (Brainwashed vs Black Widow) he lost. That... really doesn't put him in the same league with Oliver's h2h skills from CW.
So they are gonna both just shoot their arrows out of the trajectory until they are empty. Then they are gonna fight hand 2 hand and Clint will lose.
MCU Hawkeye's head met a metal railing courtesy of one Black Widow. In terms of H2h he didn't show much. CQC Ollie feeds him an explosive arrow.
too many trick arrows to even try and think about the outcome.
I've watched a few of the recent arrow episodes, how are his improvising skills lately? I'm sure Ollie will realize eventually he has nothing on Hawkeye in the archery department so he could possibly rethink his strategy to make it h2h.
In that case, I can see Ollie taking this, considering it's gonna be H2H, and Hawkeye won't use any dangerous arrows when they are so close. Hawkeye is definitely a better archer however, but it doesn't matter in this fight.
@bpg: in skills in archery Ollie, Malcolm even Roy outclasses him. Clint has super technologically advanced bow with greater firepower and range. Skills> technology
@bpg: Oliver once was shoting backwards ( i don't remember exactly when in season 4 ). Ollie who has normal bow can shot at same distances and ollie once quickly has shoted 3 small spots in less than 2 seconds. He is faster than Clint and more accuracy he has.
Arrow. Ollie has better physicals, is faster and more skilled. Their archery skills are comparable but Ollie is a casual arrow timer so he has the advantage there. The only category where Clit might have an advantage is tech.
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