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#1 Posted by Firedude17 (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

Both fighters think the other killed their family, are bloodlusted. Who wins?

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#2 Edited by ANTHP2000 (27884 posts) - - Show Bio

Diggle hand to hand, strictly by feats.

Clint one shots him with gear.

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#3 Posted by AngelJax (11756 posts) - - Show Bio

Clint would be a monster bloodlusted. Diggle would still job.

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#4 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

Diggle 2 rounds. Diggle has guns and is casual bullet timer

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#5 Posted by Stormdriven (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@sexybayonetta22: He’s not a casual bullet timer, where did you get that idea?

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#6 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormdriven: i remember when Andy from suprise behind him shoted him ( john was sensing sth is wrong but dodn't expect that ) + Andy admitted how greay are his reflexes.

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#7 Posted by RBT (28581 posts) - - Show Bio

@sexybayonetta22: He’s not a casual bullet timer, where did you get that idea?

Loading Video...

I think this is what he's talking about.

"You've still got those quick reflexes John."

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#8 Posted by RBT (28581 posts) - - Show Bio

Dig stomps R1.

As for gear round, obviously Clint has better gear and can one shot Dig especially with no morals, but so can Dig. And why are we pretending Clint can outdraw Dig?

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#9 Posted by Stormdriven (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@sexybayonetta22: Ignoring the fact that Andy wasn’t trying to kill him because Damien wanted to get to ARGUS, so he clearly wasn’t actually trying to shoot him, that wouldn’t even make him a casual bullet timer. Spider-Man is the definition of a casual bullet timer. Diggle is nowhere near close to that level of effortless speed

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#10 Posted by Stormdriven (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Read my above post

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#11 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormdriven: Andy didn't care about him. He just tried to kill all threats. I remember other feats where he was dodging bullets but i cannot find now

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#12 Posted by Stormdriven (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@sexybayonetta22: Andy didn’t, but Damien needed Diggle alive to lead him to ARGUS. Andy wasn’t trying to kill him

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#13 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormdriven: ok but somehow hurt him to make him dizzier. Like shooting his shoulder or arm.

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#14 Posted by plotweapon16255 (7823 posts) - - Show Bio

Diggle unless Clint can shoot an arrow faster then a gun.

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#15 Posted by maestromage (1422 posts) - - Show Bio

Diggle slaps Clint.

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#16 Posted by The_Hajduk (6305 posts) - - Show Bio

@sexybayonetta22: @stormdriven: Considering what Andy said about John 'still' having those quick reflexes, it's possible he knew John would dodge the bullet when firing.

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#17 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5535 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Clint.

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#18 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: notice that john without even knowing, seeing from close distance he dodged it. That is really superhuman lvl feat

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#19 Posted by deactivated-5cadf799d578c (401 posts) - - Show Bio

Dig would beat him hand to hand, idk about gear

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#20 Posted by Stormdriven (17925 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by Stormdriven (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: There’s just too much risk involved, and not enough evidence to suggest John dodged it. Andy wanting him captured already throws the instance into question.

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#22 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27884 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh the unironically impressive arguments for Diggle.

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#23 Posted by The_Hajduk (6305 posts) - - Show Bio

@sexybayonetta22: That's true. It's a type of feat that nobody in the MCU has been given. This tells me Diggle's intended level of skill and experience.

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#24 Posted by TheSuperor (6836 posts) - - Show Bio

Diggle in h2h, Clint stomps with gear.

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#25 Posted by jashro44 (53144 posts) - - Show Bio

Clints gear is to versatile. I think this would be more interesting if we ignored hawkeye's trick arrows. Clint is more accurate but Diggle isn't far off when we PIS IMO. Bullets are also faster than arrows. In melee combat I think Diggle has the advantage in skill but hawkeye having a reach advantage might make it tough for Diggle to counter.

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#26 Posted by Subline (8424 posts) - - Show Bio

Diggle Stomps in H2H.

Hawkeye Stomps With Gear.

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#27 Posted by The_Hajduk (6305 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: There’s just too much risk involved, and not enough evidence to suggest John dodged it. Andy wanting him captured already throws the instance into question.

This is your speculation.

All factors in the scene lead us to believe that Andy fired at John and was dodged.

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#28 Posted by The_Hajduk (6305 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Clints gear is to versatile. I think this would be more interesting if we ignored hawkeye's trick arrows. Clint is more accurate but Diggle isn't far off when we PIS IMO. Bullets are also faster than arrows. In melee combat I think Diggle has the advantage in skill but hawkeye having a reach advantage might make it tough for Diggle to counter.

A balanced analysis as always.

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#29 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

Diggle Stomps in H2H.

Hawkeye Stomps With Gear.

How does he stomp ? John with Crossbow is very dangerous like with gun.

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#30 Posted by Subline (8424 posts) - - Show Bio

How does he stomp ? John with Crossbow is very dangerous like with gun.

Diggle isn't really impressive, sure he's decent with a crossbow but Hawkeye is so much more accurate and also has much more deadly weaponry such as explosive arrows which he can one shot with.

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#31 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:
@sexybayonetta22 said:

How does he stomp ? John with Crossbow is very dangerous like with gun.

Diggle isn't really impressive, sure he's decent with a crossbow but Hawkeye is so much more accurate and also has much more deadly weaponry such as explosive arrows which he can one shot with.

But Diggle never hesitates and is much faster + he tanked greater attacks than Hawkeye's explosive arrows

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#32 Posted by maxxcveiler (1030 posts) - - Show Bio

dig

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#33 Posted by Stormdriven (17925 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: It’s not speculation, it’s literally what happens in the episode. It’s the same thing as Slade entering the Arrow cave for the skeleton key. They’re pulling their shots because they don’t actually want to kill anyone.

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#34 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27884 posts) - - Show Bio

When Diggle of all people is been passed around as a high level fighter something is seriously wrong with CV...

@stormdriven said:

@the_hajduk: There’s just too much risk involved, and not enough evidence to suggest John dodged it. Andy wanting him captured already throws the instance into question.

This is your speculation.

All factors in the scene lead us to believe that Andy fired at John and was dodged.

But the burden of proof is on you to show that Dig bullet timed there (which he obviously didn't...). Sure you can call that opinion speculation, but your own interpretation of the scene is also speculation. All evidence leading to your assumption is far from the truth.

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#35 Posted by Subline (8424 posts) - - Show Bio

@sexybayonetta22:

But Diggle never hesitates

This is meaningless, Clint never "hesitates" either.

and is much faster

Based on?

+ he tanked greater attacks than Hawkeye's explosive arrows

Blatant lies, if this were true you would have at least named one of his feats where "tanked" something as powerful as an Arrow that can completely obliterate a bunker.

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#36 Posted by jashro44 (53144 posts) - - Show Bio

When Diggle of all people is been passed around as a high level fighter something is seriously wrong with CV...

Who said you have to be a high level fighter to beat hawkeye?

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#37 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27884 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I did, considering he can take on the likes of Black Panther give them trouble both at range and up close, without even abusing his best gear, or that he can solo dozens of Ultron Sentries.

Diggle doesn't hold a candle to such showings IMO. Nor does anyone below what I'd consider a "high level fighter".

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#38 Posted by Morpheus_ (34514 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I did, considering he can take on the likes of Black Panther give them trouble both at range and up close, without even abusing his best gear, or that he can solo dozens of Ultron Sentries.

Diggle doesn't hold a candle to such showings IMO. Nor does anyone below what I'd consider a "high level fighter".

I'll go to my grave and my final words will be, "Hawkeye getting stomped by T'Challa isn't a feat."

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#39 Posted by jashro44 (53144 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

I did, considering he can take on the likes of Black Panther give them trouble both at range and up close, without even abusing his best gear,

Clint didn't really challenge black panther from a range "Without abusing his gear". T'challa dodged and caught all his arrows. You can argue the arrows he caught were explosive but that is hawkeye "abusing gear". But even than I would say black panther himself didn't really need to be particularly cautious because he had his vibranium armor and could abuse his own gear.

As for CQC all hawkeye did was tie up black panther for like a second and than get stomped. He didn't land any hits other than getting his staff around him (which wouldn't have done any damage even without the vibranium suit). He blocked hits but all that tells me is black panther wasn't taking advantage of his strength, otherwise hawkeye would have been rag dolled.

or that he can solo dozens of Ultron Sentries.

I don't recall hawkeye soloing dozens of ultron sentries in CQC. I don't remember him taking on dozens at the same time in general. From what I remember the avengers were fighting them in waves. Ultron sentries are powerful but there not tactical or skilled.

Diggle doesn't hold a candle to such showings IMO. Nor does anyone below what I'd consider a "high level fighter".

There honestly not that impressive. Diggle has his own feats of holding his own with mirakuru users like isabel Roshev all the way back in season 2. Diggle also held his own against an enhanced Ricardo Diaz...He was on the losing end but he actually landed hits which is more than what Clint did against black panther. Diggle hasn't fought anything like Ultron sentries but he has faced ninjas, aliens, and nazi's from another dimension.

I have a hard time believing hawkeye out classes Diggle just because he fought black panther.

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#40 Posted by TheSuperor (6836 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye is probably the most overrated live action character because of that Panther feat, Diggle on the other hand is the most underrated live action character, simply because he isn't considered top tier in Arrow.

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#41 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27884 posts) - - Show Bio

I love how salty Arrow and Netflix fans get over other fighters' fights against metas on that level. I really don't feel like breaking down this fight again, so I'll just copy paste from one of my CaVs;

No Caption Provided

The initial exchange begins with Hawkeye shooting at T'Challa, with the latter dodging them until Clint borderline overwhelms him with sheer draw speed and tactical use of his volume. He forces him to catch, ergo make contuct with, Clint's next 2 arrows fired simultaneously, by firing while T'Challa is still dodging the previous shot, somersaulting to close in. Clint practically tagged T'Challa here and accomplished headway through his draw speed, clever use of the arsenal and Trick heads of the arrows. [additionally, here is some BTS footage showing how Clint forced T'Challa to catch the arrows]. I'd like to note that Black Panther is a rather 'casual' bullet timer, slicing a bullet in 3 at close range after it' been fired.

No Caption Provided

Afterwards, they take it to CQC, Clint opens by attacking Panther using his staff, spinning it to add momentum. T'Challa dodges the attempt and retaliates with his own, which Clint defends from. The exchange keeps going on, and at some points Clint is successfully grappling with him, T'Challa even grabs the staff but Clint breaks out of that hold. He also blocks and dodges two incoming kicks in quick succession - [here is additional BTS footage for that] - basically, Clint is going blow for blow with T'Challa for quite a while, over 40 seconds overall, until he even outmaneuvers him enough to use his bow and get him on a hold of his own.

And of course that's Clint not using his higher end trick arrows, like AoU explosive arrows or electric arrows he used on Vision, as I mentioned already. But again, I keep forgetting how impressive Diggle is. My bad, the wanker...

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#42 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Problem is sometimes movie time isn't really equvalent with reality in mcu. Some actions are happening simultaneously at the same time

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#43 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye is probably the most overrated live action character because of that Panther feat, Diggle on the other hand is the most underrated live action character, simply because he isn't considered top tier in Arrow.

Fully agreed. People adores overusing BP argument. Woow and anybody pretends Diggle could h2h Dominators, guys who has better physicals than Chitauri, Panther or Outriders

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#44 Posted by deactivated-5cc073360931e (791 posts) - - Show Bio

Clint has better stats and skill it's basically a one sided match but diggle would put up a great fight...

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#45 Posted by TheSuperor (6836 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye scaling off Panther is the equivalent to Sara scaling of Overgirl. She held of Overgirl for about the same amount of time as Hawkeye did before she was put in a chokehold.

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Let's just discount the level she is actually established to be at and only focus on this feat. Sara>>Cap.

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#46 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5535 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye scaling off Panther is the equivalent to Sara scaling of Overgirl. She held of Overgirl for about the same amount of time as Hawkeye did before she was put in a chokehold.

No Caption Provided

Let's just discount the level she is actually established to be at and only focus on this feat. Sara>>Cap.

Not a really good comparison since Hawkeye holding his own against T'Challa is more believable than Sara holding her own against Overgirl.

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#47 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5535 posts) - - Show Bio

But with that being said Dig would beat Clint in a hand to hand fight. Reason I'm going with Clint in this thread is because Clint is bloodlusted and has better gear.

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#48 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2433 posts) - - Show Bio

Clint has better stats and skill it's basically a one sided match but diggle would put up a great fight...

Pffff no no and no. What the hell makes u think better stats ? I have watched all Arrow episodes and all canon comics and Diggle is too strong. Clint only wins with bow and trick arrows.

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#49 Posted by TheSuperor (6836 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: My point is that neither of the characters belong at the level which that single feat put them at. They are established to be below that single showing. So scaling Clint of Panther isn’t a great argument.

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#50 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5535 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: My point is that neither of the characters belong at the level which that single feat put them at. They are established to be below that single showing. So scaling Clint of Panther isn’t a great argument.

Ah I see.