Hashirama vs Luffy

How?

Best Luffy's done with gear fourth is stomp Doflamingo. I can argue for someone like Gaara beating Doflamingo alone and Hashirama is a casual team buster by that standard. Luffy without gear fourth could arguably lose to a few mid-level Naruto characters, gear fourth would at best let him do something like solo the Kages, something someone equal to Hashirama did with a troll face.

@highaccuser:

Best Luffy's done with gear fourth is stomp Doflamingo. I can argue for someone like Gaara beating Doflamingo alone

Actually no, Doffy outright stomps Gaara be it physical stats or powers Doffy outclasses Gaara in nearly every possible aspect with a fairly large margin

Luffy without gear fourth could arguably lose to a few mid-level Naruto characters,

Absolutely no, even gear 3rd Luffy was tearing apart the Noah and it was stated by the Sea Kings that if he continued he would have destroyed it completely. Now the impressive part is Noah's size was on comparable range with the Fishman island like a 1/4 or 1/3 of it which from one side to another was at least 150 km long.This feat outclasses everything Hashirama did let alone the lesser mid tiers that you say they can beat Luffy

Also if Luffy can do this with gear 3rd and one shot mountain level people with his basic gear 2nd attacks but still being on equal grounds against Doflamingo in a slug fest makes gear 4th Luffy stomping a big deal

gear fourth would at best let him do something like solo the Kages,

4th SWW Kages are a joke, a speed blitz one shot from gear 2nd is all it takes

@colliderz:

Actually no, Doffy outright stomps Gaara be it physical stats or powers Doffy outclasses Gaara in nearly every possible aspect with a fairly large margin

Yes Doffy stomps Gaara in physicals but Gaara isn't a physical fighter so that doesn't matter. As long as Gaara is aware of the strings he could easily defend himself from them given his sand is in the excess of city level durability. Duffy has no answer for getting buried. And that's just one example. Kisame, Obito, Pain and Itachi would all beat Doflamingo.

Absolutely no, even gear 3rd Luffy was tearing apart the Noah and it was stated by the Sea Kings that if he continued he would have destroyed it completely. Now the impressive part is Noah's size was on comparable range with the Fishman island like a 1/4 or 1/3 of it which from one side to another was at least 150 km long.This feat outclasses everything Hashirama did let alone the lesser mid tiers that you say they can beat Luffy

Noah is made of wood which isn't very durable and it was implied that Luffy using his best attack would take time to destroy it. Besides it's an inanimate object that didn't try stopping Luffy from doing anything and even then he isn't doing more than moderate damage to the thing. There are Naruto characters that don't even fight physically who wouldn't need to worry about that, never mind Hashirama who can summon the Buddha statue which is much bigger than Noah.

So Luffy is very beatable by mid-level Naruto characters, and totally outclassed by Hashirama.

Also if Luffy can do this with gear 3rd and one shot mountain level people with his basic gear 2nd attacks but still being on equal grounds against Doflamingo in a slug fest makes gear 4th Luffy stomping a big deal

He didn't one-shot anyone with mountain level durability. If you're referring to Pacifista's and Franky then no durability comparison has ever been made between the two. Besides Franky was hurt by Rob Lucci who you can't possibly think is a mountain buster.

4th SWW Kages are a joke, a speed blitz one shot from gear 2nd is all it takes

Raikage was pulling afterimage tricks on Sasuke and both Gaara and Onoki reacted to him so no he's not blitzing anyone except Tsunade and the Mizukage. Raking and Tsunade tanked the pressures of moving at light speed and Gaara can block city level explosions while Onoki tanks meteors so he's not one-shorting anyone except the Mizukage. I don't think you have a very good concept of Naruto characters power at all.

@beyondbeyond: can u just tell me what madara's traveling speed is, hypersonic, sonic, superhuman, normal human? im going with normal human, there end of discussion

@egyptian_god_ra: answer this, is his traveling speed near light, supersonic, hypersonic, superhuman, midhuman, or simply normalhuman?

@zenpaktoe82: HAshirama has super speed, be it shunshin no jutsu or sage mode enhanced speed w/e, he was always able to keep up with Madara in combat and bested him many times even out maneuvering him and stabbing him from behind before Madara noticed or could react, and Madara is hypersonic, so is a full power Hashirama

nope not hypersonici, more like subhuman if not higher, plus it wasnt the speed that hashirama was able to stabb him from behind it was simply a distraction that he had put on madara with this wood clone

@zenpaktoe82: No ninja in Naruto is subhuman, let alone the God of Shinobi.

@zenpaktoe82: Hashirama fighting combat is hypersonic level. He can keep up with Madara. I doubt his fighing combat is nearly as fast as KCM Naruto.

@highaccuser:

Yes Doffy stomps Gaara in physicals but Gaara isn't a physical fighter so that doesn't matter. As long as Gaara is aware of the strings he could easily defend himself from them given

Doffy's strings were cutting multi-city block sized meteors does Gaara's sand shield have such level of piercing durability?

his sand is in the excess of city level durability.

That explosion was nothing more than multi-city block level

Duffy has no answer for getting buried.

His physical strength is more then enough to disperse his sand out of his way not to mention Gaara's sand lacks the speed to do such thing in the first place

And that's just one example. Kisame, Obito, Pain and Itachi would all beat Doflamingo.

As long as its Pre 4th SWW I am inclined to say Doffy can beat everyone you named

Noah is made of wood which isn't very durable and it was implied that Luffy using his best attack would take time to destroy it. Besides it's an inanimate object that didn't try stopping Luffy from doing anything and even then he isn't doing more than moderate damage to the thing.

Some points you are missing;

• Luffy was heavily wounded at that point having his new wounds opening in his body with every single hit
• Yes, a type of wood that was durable enough to endure the pressure of being 100 thousand meters underwater for hundreds of years
• We don't have a time frame for how long Luffy had punched but that point irrelevant since we already know he would completely destroyed before it reached the island
• The fact Noah was a object and wasn't fighting back doesn't changes a lot
• Moderate damage? The entire more then half of the deck was flattened by the time he halted his attack

never mind Hashirama who can summon the Buddha statue which is much bigger than Noah.

And what exactly should make me believe that Buddha statue was vastly larger than Noah? Don't except me to buy those mountain hills as if they are a big deal. We have pretty good scan showing the size difference between the statue and Kurama

Kurama himself was nowhere close to being mountain level in size yet you see him portrayed as larger as the so called mountains Hashirama was dwarfing. I can go on deeper on this topic if you want any more examples of that Buddha statues estimated size though I have already gave you an explanation on Noah's size which is still larger then Hashirama's Buddha

There are Naruto characters that don't even fight physically who wouldn't need to worry about that,

Hax is one thing but Luffy's speed is vastly superior against Naruto mid tiers and given his combat characteristic of opening his fights with a speed blitz punch is all he needs

He didn't one-shot anyone with mountain level durability.

Here Hajrudin punching the million ton Machvise dozens of kilometers in air

Gallery

And rubber boy makes a quick work out of him with a single punch

Considering how Oda writes his characters especially power houses as wall type characters its unreasonable to assume his durability is less then what he can muster

If you're referring to Pacifista's and Franky then no durability comparison has ever been made between the two.

Kuma stated his cybernetics were superior to Franky's not to mention Pacifistas are the most advanced robots in the one piece world. That's exactly why Franky upgraded himself by working on Vegapunk's early works the very person who created the Pacifistas. Not to mention that a single outdated Pacifista 2 years ago managed to take everything luffy and his entire crew managed to dish out and i am pretty sure you have a good idea on how powerful they all are. And it took all their stamina to even hurt it. 2 years later a single punch from luffy one shots a pacifista while the same thing happens with Sanji and Zoro.

Besides Franky was hurt by Rob Lucci who you can't possibly think is a mountain buster.

Lucci's attack wasn't able to reveal Franky's inner cybernetics whereas that explosion did even though though they were barely scratched so its not Franky's pain tolerance but the durability of his cyborg parts

Raikage was pulling afterimage tricks on Sasuke and both Gaara and Onoki reacted to him so no he's not blitzing anyone except Tsunade and the Mizukage.

Creating after images shouldn't be considered a vastly superior speed demonstration feat since its essentially an eye illusion where a person simply moves every inch of his body at high speeds, to understand better try moving your finger back and forth as fast as you can and you will experience a basic after image demonstration ironically Dragon Ball established this fact very well

Raking and Tsunade tanked the pressures of moving at light speed

Which would give them infinite durability... Which makes absolute sense...

and Gaara can block city level explosions

That explosion of Deidara was multi city block or a bit more...

while Onoki tanks meteors so he's not one-shorting anyone except the Mizukage.

Madara's meteor didn't had the velocity of a real life meteor so it was just a big chunk of rock nothing more not to mention Onoki didn't tanked any meteors he just lightened their weight with his jutsu

I don't think you have a very good concept of Naruto characters power at all.

Or maybe its the other way around where your OP knowledge lacks a bit?

Still call this thread stupid? Now look, it has reached 110 posts. Now, I suggest you can delete your post or change those sentence otherwise i will flag you by saying stupid to me.

Just cause people think one side has a chance doesn't mean it's not spite, cause it clearly is.

@andr413: okay goku's combat fighting speed is Hypersonic. Meaning that he can make his arms look like 10 are about to hit you. So I im pretty sure that madara's combat fighting is not hypersonic, more like subhuman!

@colliderz: I agree! Juss good luck with trying to tell the naruto fans that! (Gaara beats doffy)... Lmao you gotta hand full there!

@mudamudamuda: Luffy was referring to Hody's teeth which aren't blunt but are sharp and pierce! He's saying his haki isnt as good on piercing that it is on blunt attacks.

Along with completely disappearing altogether, while he's fighting no less.

@zenpaktoe82: Look at 10:50. I could say he is massively hypersonic in terms of combat speed after watching this video above.

@andr413: ...Their faces... Also is that even canon since it's a video game, didn't watch it.

Just watch it if you're Naruto fans. It's quite entertaining too. But yeah, those video display how fast is Hashirama and Madara combat speed

@andr413: Sure looks hyper sonic if that's what it looks like.

And that's exactly my point.

Someone immune to blunt force wouldn't bother mentioning how his Haki helps protect against blunt force in the first place.

@nathaniel_christopher: okay bye

Depends on distance. If long distance Hashirama stomps. If close Luffy has a chance. However Hashirama has legit MHS reaction time (dodged a tbb which can traverse countries in seconds). Luffy would have hard time tagging Hashirama. Hashi's low physical durability will be a problem

@zenpaktoe82: Out Classed both Tobirama and Minato in speed who shunshin speed is clocked at Lightspeed. Im pretty sure Hashirama Can hang..

@mudamudamuda: Blame the author.

When was this?

@mudamudamuda: yes! Wouldn't mention it unless said blunt force can penetrate his immunity to blunt force! How? Via haki simply! If Luffy's rubber DF grants him an ability such as immunity to blunt attacks, how would you bypass that? A haki or kairoseki, DF's natural weakness! So, if someone with a haki imbued blunt attack bypasses Luffy's defensive immunity, how does luffy counter/block it? He uses his own aramament haki to at least soak up or reduce damage from the incoming attack! Simple as that bruh!

@highaccuser: The only point you made was doffy is stronger than gaara, he one shots with overheat whip casually! Other than that everything else you said was pretty much fan fiction! -current gaara doesn't have city level durability, the time he blocked dedaras bomb he was a jinchuriki, current isn't a jinchuriki sadly! - tsunade didn't tank the light speed as you claimed, she activated her healing jutsus which healed her as she traveled light speed. - raikage was out sped by chakra mode naruto, who chakra mode naruto needed kakashi and guys help to combat one, juss one obito! That's pathetic for someone whose supposed to be top tier speed. Onoki was also healed after the meteor so lol at him tanking a slow meteor that only killed fodder! Lmao!

Good theory but it's irrelevant as Luffy never mentions anything about Haki based blunt force protection, nor did he have to deal with any form of Haki blunt force in a fight up to that point. What luffy said is extremely clear.

Also, Luffy being immune to blunt force is NLF, do you really think that a universe buster punching him wouldn't cause any kind of damage ?

I'd rather blame the fans. The author never mentioned Luffy being immune to such attacks.

@mudamudamuda said:

Luffy is highly resistant to bunt force not completely immune.

^ There is no reason for him to mention that Haki can protect him from blunt force if he is already immune to it.

Just saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hx8WTHcie0

I believe that is a mistranslation error. I recall him saying something among the lines of sharp attacks. This image contradicts the evidence! On several occasions, Luffy has outright stated that he was immune to blunt force. Not only that in that particular scan we see luffy pulling out hody's teeth then making that statement, so that would mean that his own statements go against what is happening at that exact moment! I don't recall razor sharp teeth that slash and tear through your flesh blunt!

@mudamudamuda: okay funny! considering more would have to go on with a universe busting punch than just blunt force. So, not a good example or comparison! If you had a clue you'd read within context of the panel! He's taking about his haki's durability not his devil fruits (clear difference). There's been multiple fighters/fights before with haki introduced example, sentomaru at shabody hit through Luffy's df immunity, with a blunt force! So, the only think you showed me was proof of your lack of understanding the stories context bruh! Not to sound or come off rude! Tho, you almost made a really good point!

Not really...... all luffy destroyed was city block. The tailed beast can vaporize entire mountains, thats stronger than the atomic bomb at hiroshima..........heck the tailed beast are durable enough to tank blasts of this caliber.

@deathhero61: Your talking about using energy based attacks while I'm speaking in context of physical strength vs physical strength! NOT energy based attacks vs physical strength! Comparing madara tanking hits from the beast is nothing in comparison to what luffy can dish out is my point! The fact being luffy destroyed that "city block" you'd like to call it at the near beginning of the series! Now, current luffy is multiple leagues ahead since then no contest!

@deathhero61: He's trying to say luffy isn't immune to blunt force, but is some what resistant to it instead!

The Tailed Beast can physically destroy mountains.

@etheral_dreams: Oh really now? Please remind me of what chapter and page they one shot mountains!

What's funny here is you getting all technical to dodge the question. Nobody cares what energy comes with universe busting, as a matter of fact universe busting with a punch doesn't even work unless the punch is universal in size...

I'm asking you about a theoretical situation where Luffy has to be faced with the equivalent of universe busting attacks but in the form of blunt force, what happens then ? Does he just shrug the attacks of off ?

Yeah there is a clear difference between Haki and devil fruit and my point is that someone immune to blunt force wouldn't even need Haki to protect against it in the first place. You are going off assumptions here.

So, the only think you showed me was proof of your lack of understanding the stories context bruh! Not to sound or come off rude! Tho, you almost made a really good point!

Thanks, You are just showing me proof of fanboyism though ! :)

@beyondbeyond: Well the kyuubi did break out of Pein's Chibaku tensei in his 8-tailed form. And as we know the chibaku tensei is probably the strongest seal in the naruto verse and he still broke out not even at full power. That and the Chibaku tensei dwarfedmountain ranges. (edit: I meant range not ranges)

Here's the page where Kyuubi breaks out: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-445-3/naruto/chapter-440.html

Here's the page showing how big Pein's Chibaku tensei was: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-444-6/naruto/chapter-439.html

@mudamudamuda: You make no sense! The "energy generated" from a punch is what decides its capacity destructive capacity, in this case a universe. Size is irrelevant as a universe sized fist makes no sense seeing as it would take up all of space leaving no room even for its user to exist let alone its target! We are no longer talking "blunt force", when you factor things in such as heat ("energy generated" from the friction of a moving object or punch) are added to play. Said heat from the punch can become a combustible force like an explosion. Moving this conversation from soley blunt attacks to a topic of explosive attacks, which is again out of context! The fact that "you don't care where energy comes from" shows you like to neglect key info points, leaving you as the fan fiction poster not me! Try again buddy!

LOL Still getting all technical to avoid answering the question.

Well I guess this goes to show that you already know that you are wrong :)

The "energy generated" from a punch is what decides its capacity to destroy a universe, size is irrelevant as a universe sized fist makes no sense seeing as it would take up all of space leaving no room even for its user to exist let alone its target!

Learn to read :

"as a matter of fact universe busting with a punch doesn't even work unless the punch is universal in size..."

I'm telling you that it's impossible to universe bust with a punch because of how infinitely smaller the punch is compared to the universe, so regardless of what potency t carries it will never destroy more than what it can reach, thus why I told you that the punch would have to be universal in size if you want to get all technical.

"We are no longer talking "blunt force", when you factor things in such as heat ("energy generated" from the friction of a moving object or punch) are added to play. Said heat from the punch can become a combustible force like an explosion. Moving this conversation from soley blunt attacks to a topic of explosive attacks, which is again out of context! The fact that "you don't care where energy comes from" shows you like to neglect key info points, leaving you as the fan fiction poster not me! Try again buddy!"

Getting desperate are we ?

Learn to read.

"I'm asking you about a theoretical situation where Luffy has to be faced with the equivalent of universe busting attacks but in the form of blunt force, what happens then ? Does he just shrug the attacks of off ?"

All that pointless rumble about heat and explosions is irrelevant to what I said and further goes to show how out of options you are for grasping at straws. :)

Well it looks like this conversation is going to be a waste of time, so stay in denial, I don't see why I should bother reasoning with you.

@heatforce: Which is impressive and a good feat. However, what point are you trying to make?

@deathhero61 said:

@mudamudamuda said:

Luffy is highly resistant to bunt force not completely immune.

^ There is no reason for him to mention that Haki can protect him from blunt force if he is already immune to it.

Just saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hx8WTHcie0

I believe that is a mistranslation error. I recall him saying something among the lines of sharp attacks. This image contradicts the evidence! On several occasions, Luffy has outright stated that he was immune to blunt force. Not only that in that particular scan we see luffy pulling out hody's teeth then making that statement, so that would mean that his own statements go against what is happening at that exact moment! I don't recall razor sharp teeth that slash and tear through your flesh blunt!

Comic vine at my post...

Anyway to keep in short, I also used to believe the same thing but then decided to check the anime :

Luffy outright states that his Haki is good against blunt strikes but not piercing. Which both proves that it isn't a mere mistranslation and also helps explain why he would bring it up while being piercing.

@mudamudamuda: Wait! you can bring reason to a debate? lmao! Since when? If a punch was capable of generating enough potential energy then yes it can bust a universe via explosion from said potential energy generated, like I said before! In similar sense, that's how asteroids and meterors create craters bigger than itself in size (not reach). From potential energy build up then release via explosion on impact similar to a punch! But, your "theoretical" situation is more fan fiction talk! Maybe if you added some of this reasoning you said you had then you might make sense. What does a universal size blunt force look like? Seeing as you did say nothing smaller than the universe can bust it, so something must be universal in size to generate such a force according to you!

What you are saying has nothing to do with what I said. Stay in denial.

@csdabest: Both Tobirama and minato used hirashin not bodyflicker! Hirashin isn't lightspeed, its instant therefore requires no speed! So, yes their base speeds are slower the lightspeed and hirashin too!

@mudamudamuda: And what you said made no sense! So, bring me something to be in denial about next time!

Sure, as soon as you learn how to read :)