Hashirama vs Luffy

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andr413

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Hashirama is alive and can go to sage mode

Luffy is base mode and can go to 4th gear

Win by any means

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ValarMelkor

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Hashirama stomps via Shinsuusenju.

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Leo-343

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Stop making stupid spite threads.

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andr413

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@leo-343 said:

Stop making stupid spite threads.

Oh, this is spite threads? Care to explain it?

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Leo-343

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@andr413: Yes, I'll explain it to a mod.

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HeirToTheKingdom

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The First

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First

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kuroimugetsu

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#9  Edited By kuroimugetsu

it'd be a good fight ... I'm not sure what luffys can do but his movement speed should be >> hashirama but hashirama should have decent reactions

mokuton should get broken in half as luffys was doing pretty fast punched under water and still knocking people put.

people say the 1st so easily ... I'm not saying he loses but at least put up an argument

other than the buhda sumo nine I don't know what hashirama really has his summoning are his real power

luffys also has hakim techniques he has precog. I'm not sure how fast 4th gear is but it should be able to do something here ... at least imo

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ComicStooge

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@kuroimugetsu: Hashirama's Sage Mode allowed Madara to take a beating from all eight of the Tailed Beasts before Kurama joined in, then he got smacked around by all of them at once. He lost an arm, but that's still a crazy feat.

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scavengerFist

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Hashirama after a long, grueling fight. I don't see Luffy outgunning a guy who can summon a gigantic thousand hand buddha. It's very likely he'll run out of stamina after gear fourth.

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deactivated-5cb5c24a12dfe

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The jutsu that countered perfect susanoo enhanced bijuudama spam will counter Luffy's face.

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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@kuroimugetsu: Hashirama's Sage Mode allowed Madara to take a beating from all eight of the Tailed Beasts before Kurama joined in, then he got smacked around by all of them at once. He lost an arm, but that's still a crazy feat.

Sage Mode in Naruto serves the same purpose as Kenbonshuko Haki/Mantra, allowing the user to sense everyone around him/her, along with that person's attacks. As you basically noted it also enhances the users other natural abilties, one of which is durability. Madara, a regular dude, getting knocked around by giant beasts as tall as buildings and only losing an arm is a crazy feat. Stamina wise Hashirama has enough energy to fight for an entire day. While i'm sure Luffy wouldn't have any problem breaking through many of Hashirama's Mokuton constructs, Hashi is also able to make them stronger, with one I remember being powerful enough to tank a Bijuudama, which at the lower end are powerful enough to destroy mountains. His largest attacks simply dwarf Luffy in size, even being larger than Madara's Perfect Susanoo and Full Powered Kyuubi. Hashirama's honestly like an Admiral with how largescale his attacks are, also having the means to defend against and counter Luffy's attacks.

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ComicStooge

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#14  Edited By ComicStooge

@nathaniel_christopher said:
@comicstooge said:

@kuroimugetsu: Hashirama's Sage Mode allowed Madara to take a beating from all eight of the Tailed Beasts before Kurama joined in, then he got smacked around by all of them at once. He lost an arm, but that's still a crazy feat.

Sage Mode in Naruto serves the same purpose as Kenbonshuko Haki/Mantra, allowing the user to sense everyone around him/her, along with that person's attacks. As you basically noted it also enhances the users other natural abilties, one of which is durability. Madara, a regular dude, getting knocked around by giant beasts as tall as buildings and only losing an arm is a crazy feat. Stamina wise Hashirama has enough energy to fight for an entire day. While i'm sure Luffy wouldn't have any problem breaking through many of Hashirama's Mokuton constructs, Hashi is also able to make them stronger, with one I remember being powerful enough to tank a Bijuudama, which at the lower end are powerful enough to destroy mountains. His largest attacks simply dwarf Luffy in size, even being larger than Madara's Perfect Susanoo and Full Powered Kyuubi. Hashirama's honestly like an Admiral with how largescale his attacks are, also having the means to defend against and counter Luffy's attacks.

Yeah, just his golemn caught a tailed beast ball and used it as a Rasengan.

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kuroimugetsu

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#15  Edited By kuroimugetsu

@comicstooge:

pretty impressive feats. question though ... what can hashirama do without summons. i agree that he should win, he has ample stamina and scans show he's a powerhouse, how does he fair against speedsters?

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ComicStooge

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@kuroimugetsu: Madara is one of the fastest characters in the series and Hashirama never had an issue keeping up with him.

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kuroimugetsu

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#17  Edited By kuroimugetsu
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zenpaktoe82

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zenpaktoe82

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#19  Edited By zenpaktoe82
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@andr413:i can see hashimaru winning, barely tho

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@zenpaktoe82: Lol, funny. As an edo, he dodged Gaara's sand easily, cut through legions of men before they had the chance to attack, reacted to KCM Naruto etc.

While alive, he outside blitzed Sage Mode Naruto, made Sasuke look like a chump and reacted to Tobirama's teleport slash from behind. Considering Hashirama is non-edo here, he'd have a similar level of speed.

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deactivated-5c531e53b02be

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ancient_god

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Hashirama

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kuroimugetsu

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@comicstooge: true he is formidable. I'd say dodging gaaras sand is >>>>> fodderizing a bunch of no names though

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@unrelenting: agreed it blocked it. but it didn't tank the explosion which is far greater in dc. granted blocking something like that puts his mokuton in the high tons range.

unfortunately an unexploded tbb is stikl unqualifiedable in terms of weight.

I'm not trying to downplay the feat.

his blocking tbb is still impressive

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zenpaktoe82

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@comicstooge: okay maybe his reaction to speed attacks is somwhat impressive, but when moving in short distances, it can be measured as normal speed, if not a little higher!

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Hashirama

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Sy8000

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If all Gear Fourth Luffy has been doing is stomp Doflamingo he's still out of his league. I could argue for someone like Gaara beting Doffy, never mind Hashirama who's a casual team buster by that standard.

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BeyondBeyond

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#28  Edited By BeyondBeyond

@zenpaktoe82: You’re right madara has none! only Edo (which isn't normal madara) & sage enhanced madara have shown speed feats. The two forms of madara which Hasirama didn't fight at the Valley of the end. Also, hashirama has to stand still to enter sage mode first. plus, he lacks the durability feats to tank base luffy punches.

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#30  Edited By BeyondBeyond

@comicstooge: Actually, iirc madara lost the arm after they all smashed him with stacked tails. Which, along with the volley feat. Isn't impressive seeing as the combined strength of the bijuu clearly lack in comparison to the strength of Luffy's gum gum storm. which shook an entire city as well as punched a massive crater through multiple layers of bedrock underneath and through the foundation grounds which said city stood on, launching crocodile high enough for everyone inside and out of the city limits to see. This is at near beginning of the series luffy who is a no contest compared to current luffy's strength. Gear 4th is really overkill! considereding non Edo hashirama has nearly no feats and is pretty much hyperbole at best in the durability department anyways.

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Marshall_Long

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Hashirama

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decaf_wizard

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Probably hashirama. It's honestly super debatable that current luffy could take madara let alone a guy who regularly beat him to the ground

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ValarMelkor

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@zenpaktoe82: You’re right madara has none! only Edo (which isn't normal madara) & sage enhanced madara have shown speed feats. The two forms of madara which Hasirama didn't fight at the Valley of the end.

What are you talking about? Being an Edo doesn't make him any faster. His speed as an Edo is the same as he was living.

Also, hashirama has to stand still to enter sage mode first. plus, he lacks the durability feats to tank base luffy punches.

Not really. He survived his final clash with Madara which was dwarfing Mountain Ranges, and reshaping the land. Plus, Luffy has no counter to Wood Golem, which was equal to Madara's Perfect Susanoo, or Shinsuusenju.

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ComicStooge

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@beyondbeyond: The 9 Tails by itself could could cause earthquakes

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@valarmelkor: Edo zombies are slower than they when they're living

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ValarMelkor

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@valarmelkor: Edo zombies are slower than they when they're living

I don't remember that ever being stated.

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I think edo and alive speeds are equal. Madara was faster because he took his armor off but then again they might be faster by a little when alive.

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@kcminato said:

I think edo and alive speeds are equal. Madara was faster because he took his armor off but then again they might be faster by a little when alive.

@comicstooge said:

@valarmelkor: Edo zombies are slower than they when they're living

I don't remember that ever being stated.

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#40  Edited By BeyondBeyond

@valarmelkor: Edo gives regen so, increase in durability & unlimited chakra allowing to tank & fight more reckless beyond normal limits. Added with madara's Edo body being specially upgraded by kabuto with "senju DNA" making him stronger and faster than he was at the VOE fight (seeing as he lack senju DNA and rinnegan hax that fight).

- shinsuusenju is a summon that needs sage mode, in order to obtain sage mode the user must "stand still" while drawing senjutsu chakra. leaving hashi open to being blitz by luffy. Despite how the panel was drawn hashi never was shown to tank or be hit full on by madara's assault, the statue took majority if all the attacks (seeing how it was broken yet, where hashi was not even damaged or touched). Let's say he did summon it, Luffy is immune to blunt force period and has tanked & evaded blows from giants, large monsters, and giant constructs since near the beginning of series. Which current luffy is stronger than pre-time luffy in all stats, not including armament haki he has at his disposal now. He's also one shots giants and should easily be able to crack shinsuusenju's head in a similar fashion to how he casually did giant Pica's giant statue that dwarfed over the entire country of dressrosa. So, the golem being brought up is irrelevant. oh, and the mountains that shinsuusenju dwarf look small in comparison to the mountains that beast bombs bust.

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BeyondBeyond

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@comicstooge: The nine tails was said to do a lot of things that it nevered showed! Retcon or bad writing whatever you wanna call it the power scheme of the nine tails lacks consistency. Back on point, the earthquake is irrelevant when Luffy's in the air seconds of way from landing a readied grizzly magnum in his opponents face.

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ValarMelkor

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@valarmelkor: Edo gives regen so, increase in durability & unlimited chakra allowing to tank & fight more reckless beyond normal limits.

Which has nothing to do with speed.

Added with madara's Edo body being specially upgraded by kabuto with "senju DNA" making him stronger and faster than he was at the VOE fight (seeing as he lack senju DNA and rinnegan hax that fight).

He was never stated to be any faster. Rinnegan and Senju DNA were never stated to increase speed, so that's just baseless speculation on your part. Especially when Madara implied that Edo zombies are actually slower than in life in the scan posted above...

- shinsuusenju is a summon that needs sage mode, in order to obtain sage mode the user must "stand still" while drawing senjutsu chakra. leaving hashi open to being blitz by luffy

Experienced Sages like Hashirama, and current Naruto can go into Sage Mode in almost an instant. Hashirama did it as Madara was about to attack him.

leaing hashi open to being blitz by luffy
leaing hashi open to being blitz by luffy

Despite how the panel was drawn hashi never was shown to tank or be hit full on by madara's assault, the statue took majority if all the attacks (seeing how it was broken yet, where hashi was not even damaged or touched).

Well okay, you might be right about that.

Let's say he did summon it, Luffy is immune to blunt force period and has tanked & evaded blows from giants, large monsters, and giant constructs since near the beginning of series. Which current luffy is stronger than pre-time luffy in all stats, not including armament haki he has at his disposal now.

So Hashirama summons it to land on Luffy and then what? You think he can lift that thing up or something? By feats he can't. He's never tanked an attack by something that big before anyway.

He's also one shots giants and should easily be able to crack shinsuusenju's head in a similar fashion to how he casually did giant Pica's giant statue that dwarfed over the entire country of dressrosa.

Country sized? This is smaller than mountains.

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So, the golem being brought up is irrelevant. oh, and the mountains that shinsuusenju dwarf as small in comparison to the mountains that beast bombs bust.

No, it's just perspective. The mountains look like they're only around twice the size of the trees in the first panel with Shinsuusenju, but in the next panel you can tell they're mountain ranges away from any of the forests.

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SPM1M

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Hashirama seems to be on top can anyone briefly catch me up on gear fourth?

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KingogKings777

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Luffy.

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decaf_wizard

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This is not a spite but hashirama wins 9/10. His golem was catching mountain busting attacks and that thing is nowhere near his crazy budda statue. Luffy in 4th gear is fast but he isn't dodging the aoe hashirama is putting out and hashirama is a better figher. Plus sage mode is crazy durable and remember hashirama was regularly beating madara, and sometimes madara had the Kyuubi and hashirama was still winning. Luffy couldn't beat madara and the kyuubi combined

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BeyondBeyond

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@valarmelkor: No, senju DNA increases the user total physical prowess such as "strength" seen by obito multiple times in the series (blocked suigestsu sword and gained a boost by wearing/using white zetsu) strength is also associated with speed and power. Madara only stated certain abilities aren't usable as Edo opposed to being alive such as certain rinnegan moves, becoming jinchuriki, etc. Not physical stats. The edo even states it revives the user to normal stats. He was then "upgraded" by kabuto with senju DNA. point being edo madara feats. Are irrelevant to compare to voe madara as he's been stated to be stronger than his prime in Edo form. Heck, iirc madara even said he prefers being Edo due to the unlimited chakra and Regen. Juss Edo stopped him from accomplishing his goals.

- Can you provide a scan stating experience sage users can transform instantly? Because if you go back to where hashi first puts his hands together you'll notice that a page or two later (believe page before the one you just posted of "madara being on top") hashirama distracts madara a whole 1-2 pgs with straight dialogue as he gathers senjutsu chakra, and as madara attacks is then when he summons sage mode. Chapter:621 pg.10, hashirama puts hands together, pg.11 gives a speech about friendship (this is where luffy blitz), at the end of pg.12 finally turns sage mode. Your instant is spanned out to about 2 and a half to 3 pages long. luffy can attack on one page at one panel a time lol. to even further prove my point on sage mode not being as instant, watch the anime cuz it fleshes out well hashirama standing in one place not moving giving the same speech.

- now let's say if he did summon the shinsuusenju (that's a big ass if), it only uses blunt attacks (punches) which luffy in immune to seeing as he survived getting punched by someone capable of shattering an island only to get stomp right after (while he was already weekend) juss to get back up to fight some more. To further my point on Luffy's durability and counter your point on shinsuusenju being dropped on luffy. he's been fighting giants since near the beginning of the series, look at his fight with Dorry on ch.118. He easily evaded attacks and even knocked back the giant also was smashed by dorry (granted not as big as sensuusenju) still a casually impressive feat for luffy considering it was start of the series ( current luffy being many times much stronger, not adding armament or haki either) but, to counter the shinsuusenjutsu being dropped ch. 119 pg.4 dorry drops a sea king skull (roughly the same size as shinsuusenju or possibly bigger) with luffy still OK. Take in consideration that these are beginning the series luffy feats. Also, if you compare the trees to the mountains in the pg hashi summons shinsuusenju the mountains are barley higher than the trees. Still small in comparison to the mountains beast bombs bust. Also, the mountain behind pica was created by him and is taller the the ones the shinsuusenju dwarfs too. The reason im using early luffy feats is to show Luffy's been made to casually fight and battle monsters and things that trump hashirama in size and very possibly strength (wood and summons excluded).

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Luffy is highly resistant to bunt force not completely immune.

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^ There is no reason for him to mention that Haki can protect him from blunt force if he is already immune to it.

Just saying.

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ComicStooge

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@comicstooge: The nine tails was said to do a lot of things that it nevered showed! Retcon or bad writing whatever you wanna call it the power scheme of the nine tails lacks consistency. Back on point, the earthquake is irrelevant when Luffy's in the air seconds of way from landing a readied grizzly magnum in his opponents face.

Lol, B alone is strong enough to punch around other Tailed Beasts:

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He and KCM Naruto dropped the Gedo Statue with their fists:

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The Gedo Statue seems about as tall as that rock golemn guy:

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The 8 Tails cleared a forrest:

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He even physically held back a TBB from the 10 Tails:

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KCM2 Naruto's strength was enough to divert 5 mountain busting tailed beast bombs:

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Gyuki and Kurama alone are stronger than Luffy, let alone the other 7 Beasts together.

Madara (thanks to Sage Mode) withstood getting his insides filled with sand, got smacked around by 5 of the Beasts then took a dip in acid. Then later he took their stacked tails attack, which was strong enough to completely shatter his Susanoo.

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Anyway, Hashirama can just create wood constructs to fight for him while he goes into Sage Mode:

Like the Wood Golem, which caught mountain busting Tailed Beast Bomb:

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Or he could use the Wood Dragon:

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Or spam Wooden Hands (notice that the hands blocked Madara's sword swings that cut the tops off mountains?):

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Or restrain him like so. If the Hachibi can't break out of a wood construct, Luffy can't either.

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Alternately, he could simply chill in a wood construct until he goes Sage Mode.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Can Luffy counter Bringer of Darkness?

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Hashirama is too versatile to lose here.

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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Not even sure how this is still going on lol Beyond the many attacks and strategies that @comicstooge just stated. Hashirama still has this as well:

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Mokuton: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees

Which releases a pollen that very quickly paralyzes and incapacitates its victims.

@spm1m Gear 4 involves Luffy inflating his body with air, similar to Gear 3, but more of his upper body instead of just an arm. He constantly bounces around at high speed while in it, and is able to control it with a great deal of maneuverability (For example while sending a punch at Doffy he was able to change the angle of it in mid-air. Not only is his speed increased, but his strength is as well, and it still possesses the usual traits of rubber, along with even more endurance due to the Haki Armor Luffy coats himself in during this form. However, it has a fairly short time limit and leaves him completely exhausted afterwards. Within the manga right now, he stated that he wouldn't be able to use Haki again for another ten minutes, and he's only surviving due to someone else carrying him to run away from Flamingo for the next ten minutes.

As has already been pointed out, but deserves restating, Hashirama is able to go into Sage Mode within a few seconds. In terms of needing to stand around while gathering Natural Energy, that is handled by how quickly he is able to go into Sage Mode, and the fact that he can form various wooden constructs beforehand to attack Luffy, that can then move on their own (Such as his Golem) while he stands completely still. Once in Sage Mode, the strength of his attacks are bolstered even further, and they grow to even more epic proportion. His overall base stats, such as defense and speed, are also increased, just as Luffy's are in Gear 4, however Sage Mode can last far longer than Gear 4 can. What's more, its sensory ability is unrivalled and Hashirama will always know where Luffy is while using it, so there won't be any hiding or running away during that time period. For a general idea of Hashirama's all around stamina, he and Madara fought for a day straight, and Hashirama was still standing, while Madara was on the ground awaiting death. At his best, Luffy does not have stamina like that, though his is still large. And keep in mind the size of the attacks that Madara and Hashirama throw at each other. They're quite simply put massive, yet they keep going as if there isn't a problem. As stated by Madara himself, Hashirama also has an instant healing ability similar to his granddaughter's, in which any wounds Luffy deals to him will automaticaly be taken care of.

Like honestly Luffy is just outmatched here.

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BeyondBeyond

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#50  Edited By BeyondBeyond

@comicstooge: The tailed beast are monstrous. But, tiny luffy at the beginning of the series (time skip luffy no comparison to current) was capable of shaking "An entire city" by punching through crocodile ( a man who has regen), his 3 dessert spada (creates giant craters) against the pull force of gravity, through not "one" but, "MULTIPLE" layers of bedrock breaking through the ground foundation which the said shaking city stood on launching crocodile in the air for all inside and outside city limits to see with his storm. This strength feats trumps all tailed beast strength feats. Considering this is pre time skip luffy who is many years weaker than current luffy (not considering haki here either too) and the fact tailed beast seperate and or together lack the strength feats to replicate Luffy's storm, seeing as even with the combined efforts of all the beast they couldn't put down a single madara (with regen) who has less durability than most one piece verse characters by feats and the tailed beast themselves. meaning luffy is stronger than the beast based on feats. To compare madara taking a beating by a inferior foe is pointless.