Hashirama vs Current 5 Kage w/o Naruto (PLEASE READ OP)

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#51 Posted by deactivated-5d5d8c614fa9a (4113 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread though.......lmao

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Hashirama laughs at them, seriously even BM would take the current kage on and win.

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#52 Posted by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama > Madara > Kages.

lock this thread

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#53 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: the Madara who fought the kage was above Hashi.

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#54 Posted by WhatamIseeing (1787 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: momoshiki is much slower than people give him credit for. Kinshiki only showed lightning speed, momoshiki showed nothing. momo has the reactions to keep up with naruto/sasuke he never showed the travel speed. Its silly to say any of the kage have relativistic speed obviously its momoshiki that isnt fast

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#55 Edited by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: the Madara who fought the kage was above Hashi.

Hashi as in EDO or as in Prime?

because EDO madara was weaker than his Prime (confirmed by Edo hashi) and wasn't using Hashi senjutsu during the kage fights

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#56 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: Edo Madara was stronger than his prime self, Kabuto stated he was a special Edo made stronger than ever before.

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#57 Edited by WhatamIseeing (1787 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama stomps no diff. Kisame could beat the current kage minus Naruto

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#58 Posted by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: Edo Madara was stronger than his prime self, Kabuto stated he was a special Edo made stronger than ever before.

False. Edo still depower the reincarnated person, No exceptions.

"Kabuto stated he was a special Edo made stronger than ever before"

Special as IN *Insert Hashi wood style/senjutsu Into Madara*

You could argue Edo sage Madara >Prime madara but that has nothing to with what i posted

which returns us back to Point A: Madara wasn't Using sage mode against the kages and still stomped them

Hashi > Madara > kages

Lock this thread

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#59 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: No he stright up said he was stronger, he had the Rinniegan for crying out loud.

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#60 Posted by Azureus (3265 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus:

Given I wasn't using the word in it's literal meaning, but this site's butchered defintion...you should know what I mean. Momoshiki was performing worse than he should against opponents weaker than him.

I get you think I'm wrong, but that is not worth much by itself. The fact remains that Momoshiki drastically changed between the two instances.

I'll stop here because you can't seem to even address what I said.

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#61 Edited by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: No he stright up said he was stronger, he had the Rinniegan for crying out loud.

Hachi beaten a madara with a Fullpower kurama/susano

tomayto tomahto

and madara had rinne in his lifetime. not a kabuto thing case you implied so. otherwise ignore this

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#62 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki:

Moot point. This Madara could also beat Kurama. Especially when both Madara and Hashirama have ways to subdue it. Canonical statements have Madara stronger than before. Sorry.

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#63 Edited by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki:

Moot point. This Madara could also beat Kurama. Especially when both Madara and Hashirama have ways to subdue it. Canonical statements have Madara stronger than before. Sorry.

half powered Kurama =/= Fullpower susano kurama

hashi canonical statement = Prime madara > Edo madara

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#64 Posted by ourmanuel (13893 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is quite amusing...

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#65 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: Hashirama never said that.

I'm fact he for destroyed by Edo Madara, it's a fact that Edo Madara is stronger than his past self.

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#66 Edited by ourmanuel (13893 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

Was it Base Momoshiki who everyone is using to scale the Kages to, or is it Fused Momoshiki?

I don’t know about anyone else’s scaling.

But both times we saw base momoshiki with Darui, he was running from Darui and Darui was right on his tail, so essentially keeping up with him. Once with the help of gaara’s sand acting as footholds for him to run on air after momoshiki who was flying yet still being closely followed by Darui, and then the second time on one of the roots with Darui still right on his tail.

But in both his sand failed to protect him from the second attack of Momoshiki.

He still reacted to him regardless.

But going by your logic, I guess half dead Itachi is lightning speed now?

Not the same thing.

He’s not,

Based on?

and you claiming his sand can solo is

The truth.

as laughable as your attempts at “subsonic Naruto characters”.

I have no idea who told you about that, but I had hoped that my obvious trolling would be...well, obvious.

Darui blitzes with what speed feats?

Keeping up with base Momo and perceiving fused Momo coming at him.

Reacting to a Base Momoshiki, who Hashirama can easily react to as well?

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I’m gonna need some feats/logic to suggest that he can.

Unless....you don’t believe base Momo was that fast at all...

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#67 Edited by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: Hashirama never said that.

I'm fact he for destroyed by Edo Madara, it's a fact that Edo Madara is stronger than his past self.

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GG NO RE

So Edo madara (weaker madara) beating Edo Hashi (weaker hashi) with his sage amp (hashi stolen powers) that made hashi powerless, it therefore means Edo madara is stronger than his living counterpart (who is stronger) who lacks said said sage mode but has a Full susano kurama and is stronger than Edo madara?

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#68 Posted by Yamiyodare (2479 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no indication that the current 5 kages are stronger than during the Great War because they no longer seem to be training. In addition some are either too old or inexperienced. I would say that the Kages of the great wars are better.

Hashirama being stronger and more enduring than Madara, he should beat his five karts even more easily.

Obviously Naruto is the only Kage to have improved a lot, including it would have been a massive mismatch.

Hashirama wins.

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#69 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio
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@shintoki: obtaning past strength doesn't mean head stronger, only that he know has something he had before. Like I said Madara's was stronger. Says it word for word. Save the chess memes for when you actually prove something.

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#70 Edited by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki:

@xyzen said:
No Caption Provided

@shintoki: obtaning past strength doesn't mean head stronger, only that he know has something he had before. Like I said Madara's was stronger. Says it word for word. Save the chess memes for when you actually prove something.

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@shintoki said:
@xyzen said:

@shintoki: Edo Madara was stronger than his prime self, Kabuto stated he was a special Edo made stronger than ever before.

False. Edo still depower the reincarnated person, No exceptions.

"Kabuto stated he was a special Edo made stronger than ever before"

Special as IN *Insert Hashi wood style/senjutsu Into Madara*

You could argue Edo sage Madara >Prime madara but that has nothing to with what i posted

which returns us back to Point A: Madara wasn't Using sage mode against the kages and still stomped them

Hashi > Madara > kages

Lock this thread

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#71 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: "beyond your prime"> anything you have to say.

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#72 Posted by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: "beyond your prime"> anything you have to say.

kabuto: i made you better than your golden age

madara: Golden age?. do you know anything about my Golden age?

kabuto: well....no, please show to me now.

checkmate

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#73 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: Madara then says he would show him, and the proceeds to show more power than ever. Once again you have no argument. I'm good with my first CaV being Madara (alive) vs Madara (Edo) if you're up for the challenge.

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#74 Edited by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: kabuto asks to show him, Madara then says he would show him fine, and the proceeds to show more power than ever. Once again i have no argument. I'm good with my first CaV being Madara (alive) vs Madara (Edo) if you're up for the challenge.

.more power than ever based on what? (In4 Living madara didn't have rinne)

.kabuto admitting not knowing madara PL debunks your headcanon about him not referring to just hasi sage/style power

make a thread for it if you want it

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#75 Edited by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki:

Dropping two Island level meteors, Absorbing Jutsu, Unlimited chakra, Immortality, Woodstyle, etc.. Way to ignore the challenge.

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#76 Edited by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki:

Dropping two Island level meteors, Absorbing Jutsu, Unlimited chakra, Immortality, Woodstyle, etc.. Way to ignore the challenge.

require prep=leaves madara vulnerable to it and got shot down by either kurama swinging perfect susano sword at it or bijuu bombs / both

Lmao at Edo madara standing still while trying to absorb a Bijou borm or jumping into a kurama susano to absorb it just to be rekt

that only means immunity to exhaution/chakra loss. < which makes point two half useless

edo tensei is subjecated to Fuinjutsu and can't regenerate when there is no trace (in4 edo tensei is conceptual regeneration)

wood style aint doing a shit to a PS full-kurama with madara on top of it.

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#77 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: So the only argument you have for alive Madara being stronger is Kurama? Lmao Kurama isn't Madara.

And nothing I posted takes prep or time. Read the fight over again

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#78 Posted by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: So the only argument you have for alive Madara being stronger is Kurama? Lmao Kurama isn't Madara.

And nothing I posted takes prep or time. Read the fight over again

@shintoki said:
@xyzen said:

@shintoki: No he stright up said he was stronger, he had the Rinniegan for crying out loud.

Hachi beaten a madara with a Fullpower kurama/susano

tomayto tomahto

and madara had rinne in his lifetime. not a kabuto thing case you implied so. otherwise ignore this

whatever edo madara does with rine so can living madara do. only advantange edo one has is edo

you know exactly what u got urself into, dont play dumb to it.

anyways, tengai shinsei require prep as it takes 6 hand to be performed. and at that time, gets shot by Lmao

my point about why hachi take this still stands

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#79 Edited by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: Nothing you said was even remotely true Madara can't do any of that without the Rinniegan which he doesn't have.

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#80 Posted by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: Nothing you said was even remotely true Madara can't do any of that without the Rinniegan which he doesn't have.

who do you think gave obito rinne?

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#81 Edited by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: lmao Madara gave the Rinniegan to Nagato, he never used it when he was alive, Obito got his from Nagato.

Read.the.manga.

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#82 Edited by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@xyzen said:

@shintoki: lmao Madara gave the Rinniegan to Nagato, he never used it when he was alive, Obito got his from Nagato.

Read.the.manga.

it was Madara who had implanted his Rinnegan in him at a young age

gg no re

read the novels for full experience

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#83 Posted by Aristeaus (1513 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

You’re running away from the topic. Just cause you haven’t left the thread doesn’t mean you’re not inning away from it. You just keep running in circles because you don’t want to address what Azureus brought up.

By responding to you, and have you pick and choose what to answer? Yeah, I AM THE ONE RUNNING! lol

It most certainly is a reason and an answer. Just cause you don’t like it or can’t seem to understand it doesn’t mean it isn’t. I don’t care if you can use it for anyone ever.

It is not, at all. Its headcannon. You cannot determine the mindset of a fictional character. There are no feats or statements that would even remotely suggest this.

No, I gave you the answer and broke it down as simple as possible. You just don’t want to believe that answer cause you’ve already got it set in your head that you’re right, which is laughable considering the trolling logic you’re trying to use. Naruto and Sasuke can be faster than Momoshiki, Momoshiki can be faster than the Kages, but the Kages can still react to him. How can they do this? It’s literally right there in front of you in the gifs and scans I posted. You’re either too dense, too biased, or too stupid to understand. I’m thinking it’s a combination of all three.

No, you gave a generic answer that has no bearing on the question at hand. Someone who is MHS cannot react to someone who is Relativistic. It would be like you trying to race a Formula 1 car. On foot. I get why you don't want to give actual scales, cause its just accentuates my argument and makes yours look foolish by comparison.

According to who? You? I didn’t know you wrote Boruto now.

The definition of Toying with. Oh, and every baddie in the history of fiction who has ever "toyed" with someone.

I’m sorry you’re too stupid to understand basic logic and are too set in your biased opinion to use basic common sense. I really am.

You brought gifs of people with Dojutsu specifically designed to assist their reactions and perception. It literally has no weight here.

That’s not for you to decide. Leave this thread until you’re able to stop making up your own Canon. You’re doing nothing but wasting everyone else’s time otherwise.

You are an idiot.

Online
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#84 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

@shintoki: Madara didn't implant the Rinniegan into obito, he gave it Nagato. Which isn't relevant because alive Madara never used it.

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#85 Posted by Aristeaus (1513 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

@Aristeaus:

Given I wasn't using the word in it's literal meaning, but this site's butchered defintion...you should know what I mean. Momoshiki was performing worse than he should against opponents weaker than him.

I get you think I'm wrong, but that is not worth much by itself. The fact remains that Momoshiki drastically changed between the two instances.

I'll stop here because you can't seem to even address what I said.

Did he though? He blitzes Kage who barely can react. He then tries to blitz Naruto/Sasuke who have trouble reacting. Naruto/Sasuke power up and now Momoshiki has issues reacting ( but not to the level Naruto/Sasuke did pre-power up).

It seems like Momoshiki is the only constant here.

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#86 Posted by MoneyyJunee (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

The Kages without naruto are fodder

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#87 Posted by deactivated-5cab8756006f8 (120 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama wins. He can put them all to sleep with pollen.

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#88 Posted by Shintoki (767 posts) - - Show Bio

lock this. madara murdered them without needing even his sage mode

hashirama stomped madara riding a PS full kurama. LOCK THIS

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#89 Posted by TheVivas (19713 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus:

By responding to you, and have you pick and choose what to answer? Yeah, I AM THE ONE RUNNING! lol

You ignore the core and basic part of my arguments so yes, you're running from them.

It is not, at all. Its headcannon. You cannot determine the mindset of a fictional character. There are no feats or statements that would even remotely suggest this.

There are feats that would suggest he was toying with them, but why would I go through the trouble of posting them and going over them when you glossed over and ignored everything I went over the last time?

You're not worth the time and effort.

No, you gave a generic answer that has no bearing on the question at hand

Your question was "how fast are they", and I went line for line, word for word, easy enough that a little kid could have understood it, yet what I said has no bearing on your question? Jesus Christ.

Someone who is MHS cannot react to someone who is Relativistic.

So you're either

1) Assuming the Kages can only be MHS and that Fused Momo has to be relativistic

Or

2) Picking and choosing your own Canon

Cause I'll tell you what actually happened in the source material and not in your fantasy/fanfic. Fused Momo was too fast for the Kages to actually combat and do anything other than react to one attack, meanwhile Naruto and Sasuke controlled the entire fight against Momo. It's funny that you're trying so hard to discredit what actually happened because you can't understand it.

I get why you don't want to give actual scales, cause its just accentuates my argument and makes yours look foolish by comparison.

I'm not using "actual scales" because you've shown you can't even understand something around kindergarten level, even with me basically holding your hand through it.

The definition of Toying with. Oh, and every baddie in the history of fiction who has ever "toyed" with someone.

So you know more than the author of Boruto? God this is such a joke.

You brought gifs of people with Dojutsu specifically designed to assist their reactions and perception. It literally has no weight here.

The only gifs I posted were of Gaara and Kurotsuchi, two people who don't have any Dojutsu.

If anyone was still wondering whether you're talking out of your ass cause you don't have any idea what you're talking about, that sentence just proved it.

You are an idiot.

You're done here. In fact, you've been done when you basically waved away everything I laid out because you couldn't understand it and because it absolutely destroyed your pathetic argument. Leave this thread until you’re able to stop making up your own Canon. You’re doing nothing but wasting everyone else’s time otherwise.

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#90 Posted by TheVivas (19713 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel:

I don’t know about anyone else’s scaling.

Yet you jumped to the defense of Aristeaus. Interesting.

But both times we saw base momoshiki with Darui, he was running from Darui and Darui was right on his tail, so essentially keeping up with him.

Which proves absolutely nothing and is supposed to be impressive because..?

Once with the help of gaara’s sand acting as footholds for him to run on air after momoshiki who was flying yet still being closely followed by Darui, and then the second time on one of the roots with Darui still right on his tail.

Which proves absolutely nothing and is supposed to be impressive because..?

He still reacted to him regardless.

So one reaction feat is enough to push Gaara up to be equals to Naruto and Sasuke? That one and only reaction feat, which he failed to perform again not ten seconds later?

Based on?

Feats? Common sense? Logic? You've heard of those, right?

The truth.

Not only does it not have the speed to be a factor against Hashirama, it doesn't have the means to incap or kill him. You seem to be too used to trolling if you actually think Gaara's sand solos.

I have no idea who told you about that, but I had hoped that my obvious trolling would be...well, obvious

It's not only obvious, it's pathetic.

Keeping up with base Momo and perceiving fused Momo coming at him.

1) Base Momo's best speed feat is reacting to a Bijuu Bomb from Hachibi. Not enough to blitz Hashirama.

2) Perceiving Fused Momo coming at him and watching Fused Momo oneshot him isn't a speed feat, and it's laughable to think that watching some dude oneshot you because you don't have the speed to do anything about it would allow him to blitz Hashirama.

I’m gonna need some feats/logic to suggest that he can.

IBecause I can trust you to be able to understand those feats and logic?

No Caption Provided

Unless....you don’t believe base Momo was that fast at all...

When the hell did I ever argue for or against Base Momo's speed?

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#91 Posted by AlexTheBoss (19662 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama wins, Gaara is the only real threat.

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#92 Posted by ourmanuel (13893 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

@ourmanuel:

Yet you jumped to the defense of Aristeaus. Interesting.

I specifically mentioned the part of his post that I was using which was “people are choosing their own version of events”

Which proves absolutely nothing and is supposed to be impressive because..?

Because base Momo casually evaded a rear attack from an enraged base naruto.

Which proves absolutely nothing and is supposed to be impressive because..?

Because keeping up with base Momo is impressive.

So one reaction feat is enough to push Gaara up to be equals to Naruto and Sasuke?

Nope, it’s just better than anything Hashirama has.

That one and only reaction feat, which he failed to perform again not ten seconds later?

still better than hashirama’s reactions.

Feats? Common sense? Logic? You've heard of those, right?

Feats: Momo moved out of the way of enraged naruto’s attack from behind.

Common sense: An Ōtsutsuki of that level should be faster than Hashirama.

Logic: Hashirama should be tied with EMS Madara for speed, and he was slower than the raikage(however he could still follow his movements)

Not only does it not have the speed to be a factor against Hashirama, it doesn't have the means to incap or kill him.

It’s kept up with someone like fused Momo in the anime, and it was fast enough to form a shield before he could blitz Gaara in the manga. There’s also a variety of way he could use his sand to do in hashirama like crushing his body parts á la Deidara and we already know it’s pretty strong seeing as it completely stopped fused momo’s punch.

You seem to be too used to trolling if you actually think Gaara's sand solos.

I’ll admit it was half trolling, but he really could do so.

It's not only obvious, it's pathetic.

...right.

1) Base Momo's best speed feat is reacting to a Bijuu Bomb from Hachibi. Not enough to blitz Hashirama.

Don’t forget completely evading an enraged naruto’s sneak attack at close range.

2) Perceiving Fused Momo coming at him and watching Fused Momo oneshot him isn't a speed feat, and it's laughable to think that watching some dude oneshot you because you don't have the speed to do anything about it would allow him to blitz Hashirama.

It shows his reactions are good.

IBecause I can trust you to be able to understand those feats and logic?

*crickets chirping*

it would’ve been easier to type out “I concede” or “there are none”

When the hell did I ever argue for or against Base Momo's speed?

I never said you did.

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#93 Posted by Tektonic (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

None of the current kage aside from Naruto are as strong as Hashirama or anywhere close.

The Otsutsuki's are just portrayed very poorly by writers who don't understand the level they should be operating at. Kishi also made this mistake with Juudara and Kaguya at certain points.

Any proof you need is seeing how/when any of these kages in the boruto manga/anime go up against other ninja at some point, and there opponents are not even close to Otsutsuki level.

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#94 Posted by TheVivas (19713 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel:

I specifically mentioned the part of his post that I was using which was “people are choosing their own version of events”

Right, I forgot, since you two are so good at doing that.

Because base Momo casually evaded a rear attack from an enraged base naruto.

Not impressive, since Naruto's only goal with that attack was to get Boruto out of there.

Because keeping up with base Momo is impressive.

There's no feats to suggest keeping up with him is impressive in what would be called travel speed.

Nope, it’s just better than anything Hashirama has.

Only if we're downplaying Hashirama's feats and trying to highball Momoshiki's and the Kages because of that.

still better than hashirama’s reactions.

It's not. Getting harder and harder to tell which of your posts are supposed to be serious and which are the trolling kinds.

Feats: Momo moved out of the way of enraged naruto’s attack from behind.

Context: Naruto's only goal in that "attack" was the get Boruto out of there.

Common sense: An Ōtsutsuki of that level should be faster than Hashirama.

Common sense, sure. But feats wise, he's not.

Logic: Hashirama should be tied with EMS Madara for speed, and he was slower than the raikage(however he could still follow his movements)

No, Edo Madara was "slower" than the Raikage.

It’s kept up with someone like fused Momo in the anime,

Yet couldn't stop a follow up strike from his hair.

and it was fast enough to form a shield before he could blitz Gaara in the manga

Yet not fast enough to defend Gaara from Momo's second attack.

There’s also a variety of way he could use his sand to do in hashirama like crushing his body parts á la Deidara and we already know it’s pretty strong seeing as it completely stopped fused momo’s punch.

Gaara's sand has proven it doesn't have the speed to counter Hashirama's construct attacks and can't defend against them either.

The fact that you're actually trying to defend your claim of Gaara's sand soloing Hashirama right now tells me all I need to know.

Don’t forget completely evading an enraged naruto’s sneak attack at close range.

Which is again, not impressive.

It shows his reactions are good.

Not good enough, as the anime and manga showed us.

*crickets chirping*

it would’ve been easier to type out “I concede” or “there are none”

You're right, that would be easier than going back and forth with someone who routinely trolls and was trying to defend the claim that Gaara's sand solos Hashirama.

Interesting that you choose now to reply to this.

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#96 Edited by jaakor (319 posts) - - Show Bio

@devoidruby: gaara in the novel actually blocked a barrage of fused momoshiki's attacks

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#97 Edited by ourmanuel (13893 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

@ourmanuel:

Not impressive, since Naruto's only goal with that attack was to get Boruto out of there.

This is pretty much the whole point of our disagreement then.

So to address it: if naruto’s main goal was to get boruto out of there, then wouldn’t he have been at his fastest?

Only if we're downplaying Hashirama's feats and trying to highball Momoshiki's and the Kages because of that.

Literally how? Hashirama’s reactions should cap out at like mach 600/somewhere in the high MHS at the very best by scaling from Madara blitzing Naruto and reacting to BM naruto.

Do you really think Naruto isn’t faster than that in base?

It's not. Getting harder and harder to tell which of your posts are supposed to be serious and which are the trolling kinds.

Please give me your reactions feats/scaling for Hashirama then.

Context: Naruto's only goal in that "attack" was the get Boruto out of there.

But it obviously wasn’t seeing as he chose to attack momoshiki from behind first, rather than run straight for boruto.

Not to mention, that would be all the more reason why he should be using his top speed.

No, Edo Madara was "slower" than the Raikage.

I doubt alive Madara was that much faster. While he did blitz SM naruto, there are some anti-feats to suggest the third wasn’t as fast as the fourth.

Either way, that’s lightning speed or a bit faster. EoS naruto should be way above that even in base.

Yet couldn't stop a follow up strike from his hair.

He was already busy maintaining his initial sand shield and he wasn’t expecting the hair.

Either way, he still reacted to the initial punch didn’t he?

Yet not fast enough to defend Gaara from Momo's second attack.

Already addressed above.

Gaara's sand has proven it doesn't have the speed to counter Hashirama's construct attacks

It’s shown sufficient speed to blitz him.

and can't defend against them either.

It wouldn’t need to if he’s being blitzed, not just by sand but by people like Darui and the others.

And this is also assuming that an in-character Hashirama’s initial constructs would be more powerful than a blow from fused momoshiki, which is really doubtful.

Going off of his fight against Hiruzen in Part 1, he likely won’t be starting out with high level attacks like Madara’s Nativity of Trees. Tho I guess you could argue that there was a power creep during the war so his attacks could be that strong.

Interesting that you choose now to reply to this.

Yes because you addressed me in another thread and then I remembered this.

Same way someone bumped this and I’m now responding.

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#98 Edited by ourmanuel (13893 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaakor said:

@devoidruby: gaara in the novel actually blocked a barrage of fused momoshiki's attacks

But this would require us to take the novels as primary canon, over the manga and movie.

then again, the whole situation itself is messed up due to the conflicting/different feats in the different media.

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#99 Posted by jaakor (319 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: he did block an attack from fused momo in the movies (an elemental attack from his mouth iirc), but yeah, it depends on which version.

However, gaara in the last stopped three meteors Fallon from the moon, and that's just 2 years after the war, adult gaara should be much stronger

I think the OP should specify if novel Canon is also allowed

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#100 Posted by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaakor said:

@ourmanuel: he did block an attack from fused momo in the movies (an elemental attack from his mouth iirc), but yeah, it depends on which version.

However, gaara in the last stopped three meteors Fallon from the moon, and that's just 2 years after the war, adult gaara should be much stronger

I think the OP should specify if novel Canon is also allowed

he should be stronger but not much stronger since he is no longer has the tailed beast in him.

Still, that was chunk of the moon, gaara isn't even more powerful than past his prime Killer B which Momoshiki stated that he had enormous power. Nothing was said about Gaara.