Hashirama vs Current 5 Kage w/o Naruto (PLEASE READ OP)

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#1 Edited by StrongerThanRin (454 posts) - - Show Bio

It's as the title says: Hashirama vs the current 5 kage excluding Naruto

Arguing with some guy who says any of the current 5 kage could solo Hashirama because they put up a decent fight against the Otsutsuki. For instance he says that Kurotsuchi would blitz Hashirama to oblivion because she "blitzed" Kinshiki and damaged him. Please state some facts as to why Hashirama would win against the current 5 or POSSIBLY lose against them.

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#2 Posted by JOVIOLMA (7742 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama stomps the current Kages with no difficult, punch Kinshiki away when his wide was open causing him no damage and later sealed him when Sasuke was doing all the job is not a impressive feat, neither is react to Momo playing around with them, he only start to see the fight as a challenge when he fought Naruto and Sasuke.

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#3 Posted by nogoodtsuna2 (147 posts) - - Show Bio

"Kurotsuchi blitzes Hashirama to oblivion" now that's rich lmao. Hashirama obviously stomps but Gaara being the only one has the potential to put up a decent chance. honestly don't know what level Darui is on know, but he's basically featless as Raikage so he's a no factor if we considering his past feats. The man isn't called the "God of Shinobi" for no reason lol. Now I wanna see Seth debate about this shit

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#4 Posted by Aristeaus (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

Both Gaara and Kurotsuchi were able to react, dodge, and even grab Fused Momoshiki, who himself was on par with NaruSasuke.

It either means Gaara and Kurotsuchi are much faster then Hashirama ( as speed isn't really his thing ), or that Fused Momoshiki is much slower then people give him credit for.

I don't know the answer to this, but getting tired of people picking and choosing their own cannon. :-P

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#5 Edited by KAMInoChIkArA (47 posts) - - Show Bio

Glad I read the OP before I called YOU the idiot lol. Anyways, Hashirama literally slaps. The current kage without Naruto are literally TRASH. Gaara being the only one that has the most decent chance of going toe-to-toe with Hashi but ultimately losing in the end. And Kurotsuchi blitz Hashi? She was captured and put in a cell by fodder, which makes her worse than fodder LOL. She didn't even try to break out because the cell was filled with paper bombs iirc. Chojuro is just wack and Darui is featless as the Raikage. The current 5 Kage get stomped on and Kurotsuchi becomes Hashi's new pet LMAOOOOO

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#6 Posted by jordonvang (182 posts) - - Show Bio

Glad I read the OP before I called YOU the idiot lol. Anyways, Hashirama literally slaps. The current kage without Naruto are literally TRASH. Gaara being the only one that has the most decent chance of going toe-to-toe with Hashi but ultimately losing in the end. And Kurotsuchi blitz Hashi? She was captured and put in a cell by fodder, which makes her worse than fodder LOL. She didn't even try to break out because the cell was filled with paper bombs iirc. Chojuro is just wack and Darui is featless as the Raikage. The current 5 Kage get stomped on and Kurotsuchi becomes Hashi's new pet LMAOOOOO

I must say, that "Kurotsuchi blitz Hashirama" bit almost made lose my hope in humanity for a second.

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#8 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama murders them, Momoshiki wasn't even trying at all until he started fighting Naruto and Sasuke. And even if you argue that Kurotsuchi and Gaara are faster, what the hell are they gonna do to him?

Unless the person you're arguing with thinks Kurotsuchi can beat Madara too? If so that's hilarious.

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#9 Posted by VineC1993 (228 posts) - - Show Bio

Buddha slaps them to oblivion

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#10 Posted by deactivated-5d5d8c614fa9a (4113 posts) - - Show Bio

10000 hands slaps

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#11 Posted by Earendill (1598 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama curbstomps.

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#12 Posted by ourmanuel (13032 posts) - - Show Bio

Both Gaara and Kurotsuchi were able to react, dodge, and even grab Fused Momoshiki, who himself was on par with NaruSasuke.

It either means Gaara and Kurotsuchi are much faster then Hashirama ( as speed isn't really his thing ), or that Fused Momoshiki is much slower then people give him credit for.

I don't know the answer to this, but getting tired of people picking and choosing their own cannon. :-P

This^

@joviolma: @fullmetalemprah: @nogoodtsuna2

The kages are faster than him by feats with better reactions, unless you guys are willing to say that base Momoshiki isn’t above high MHS.

And Hashirama has never started any fight with sage mode or Buddha, and there aren’t many durability feats for him.

Its just as aristeaus says, people are trying to choose their own version of events.

Gaara’s sand could oneshot tbh.

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#13 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: I'm talking about Fused Momoshiki that outright toyed with all of them. The only reason Gaara even caught him with sand is because of it being able to come from every direction, and Momoshiki casually broke out and one shot him.

Hashi doesn't even need Buddha to win here, his golem and dragon are enough. None of the new Kage have anything that even remotely comes close to the power of Kurama armored in Susanoo.

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#14 Posted by ourmanuel (13032 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah: and I was talking about base Momoshiki who is faster than Hashirama

And Darui could keep up with his speed perfectly so he’s already going to blitz Hashirama.

And once again, Hashirama doesn’t start off his fights with those grand moves. He won’t live that long.

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#15 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: No, you commented on Fused Momoshiki, who fodderized them with zero issues while laughing. I already covered why Gaara was able to tag him, and he wasn't even looking at Kurotsuchi when he casually tried to one shot her too. He clearly wasn't putting in any effort when fighting the Kage, so them "reacting" to him really doesn't prove anything. The only one who consistently reacted to him was Naruto, considering he blocked more than just one casual strike meant to dispose of fodder.

Hashi consistently used Wood Style in his battle with Madara, so how is it out of character for him to start with that? He's fighting five Kage here, I doubt he won't take it seriously.

Edit: I don't believe base Momoshiki or Kinshiki are impressive tbh, so you are right about that.

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#16 Posted by Aristeaus (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: I'm talking about Fused Momoshiki that outright toyed with all of them. The only reason Gaara even caught him with sand is because of it being able to come from every direction, and Momoshiki casually broke out and one shot him.

Hashi doesn't even need Buddha to win here, his golem and dragon are enough. None of the new Kage have anything that even remotely comes close to the power of Kurama armored in Susanoo.

Sand coming from every direction against someone with 3 Rinnegans and Byakugan ( which he was using, btw, as he used Teneketsu against Naruto ). Try again.

@ourmanuel: No, you commented on Fused Momoshiki, who fodderized them with zero issues while laughing. I already covered why Gaara was able to tag him, and he wasn't even looking at Kurotsuchi when he casually tried to one shot her too. He clearly wasn't putting in any effort when fighting the Kage, so them "reacting" to him really doesn't prove anything. The only one who consistently reacted to him was Naruto, considering he blocked more than just one casual strike meant to dispose of fodder.

Hashi consistently used Wood Style in his battle with Madara, so how is it out of character for him to start with that? He's fighting five Kage here, I doubt he won't take it seriously.

Edit: I don't believe base Momoshiki or Kinshiki are impressive tbh, so you are right about that.

So let me get this straight....

You think he wasn't trying, and thats why everyone could react to him? So he went from lets say MHS, to LS with the fusion, but you think he was only using MHS+ for some reason, even though he intended on blitzing and one shotting the Kage to get them out of the way.

Follow that logic for a second... Your going to blitz and one shot some fodder. You are absurdly faster and more powerful then them now. Why would you not use the least amount of effort humanly possible?

You mentioned him laughing... Baddies who enjoy fights and laugh like that don't tend to one shot their enemies. They toy with them. Its pretty much a staple of HST.... or.. well, any fiction ever?

None of what you are saying makes any sense. He either is fast and Kage are that fast/reactions, or hes not that fast. That really is all there is to it.

You are literally making up your own series of events there bud. This is the same thing me and @ourmanuel are having issues with.

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#17 Posted by AizenCT400 (60 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama easily stomps all of them without question. Kinshiki was caught off guard during that fight. And even if you do consider it a blitz, he was too much of a reckless fighter compared to Hashirama in this scenario.

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#18 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: If we're looking at it from that perspective he had no reason to even let it touch him to begin with, given he has several ways to literally prevent it from ever touching his body whether it's as fast as him or not. But he still let it hit him and casually overpowered it soon after. Does it make sense? Not at all given his arsenal but it's still what happened.

He would have to holding back in speed at least somewhat considering base Naruto could even react to him as well as he did. We could just say,"Well that just means Naruto has reactions that good in base!" Which would work, if it weren't for the fact that Momoshiki was still capable of keeping with both Naruto and Sasuke at once after they had gotten serious and were actively trying to defeat him. If he were already using his max speed then that shouldn't have happened because Naruto and Sasuke have their speed increase drastically when they power up. Not to mention the fact that there were portions of that fight where it's clearly shown that Momoshiki is utilizing his speed more than in others.

My comment on him laughing was alluding to how casually he was beating them, not the cause of the laughter itself. Also I'm not trying to make my own canon or anything like that, it's just what I took away from the fight after seeing it.

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#19 Posted by ShuraGam (434 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact that this guy said "Kurotsuchi blitz Hashi" legitimately made me laugh so hard LOL. Hashirama absolutely demolishes the current Kages without Naruto. Madara demolished the previous 5 Kage who,except for Gaara, are all stronger than the current ones, and Madara is Hashirama's little b@$&#.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama slaps them low to mid diff.

also, Momoshiki isn't all that powerful. His only saving grace is being able to absorb Jutsu and use that power he absorbed to make himself more powerful.

Don't bring up Momoshiki absorbing a solar system as that doesn't equal D/C. no one should question Momoshiki absorption abilities since he is the same race as Kaguya. Madara was able to absorb the Ten tails which was stated to have planet+ level of power, but you don't see me or anyone else saying Pre-JJ Madara is planet level.

Momoshiki at bare minimal is above Killer B Past prime who He stated had enormous chakra. I also believe he more powerful than toneri as well, but outside that he has no combat feats that suggest he is on Madara tier of fighting or power, and Naruto and sasuke when they fought him where both weakened and still managed to beat Momoshiki after he fused with Kinishiki.

It goes back to my point in another thread where I had to own a member on here for his ignorance, Momoshiki is powerful only when he absorbs chakra, but himself he is at least low God tier with Toneri. I am talking about Toneri from when he was fighting Naruto not the one in boruto where he is blind and no longer have all that power he once had.

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#21 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

The Kage win.

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#23 Posted by GrandTOAA (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

With the exception of Naruto, Did Kages get weaker with each generation?

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#24 Posted by deactivated-5cc746539ff3b (1013 posts) - - Show Bio

People need to accept that Boruto has a new author and he intended for the Kage to be a match for non fused Momo, besides this is what we call feats.....

OT: the kage are faster IIRC Hashi is around Mach 300-1000 casually but, he has sage mode for precog and his woodstyle is too much for them.

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#25 Posted by nogoodtsuna2 (147 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus said:

Both Gaara and Kurotsuchi were able to react, dodge, and even grab Fused Momoshiki, who himself was on par with NaruSasuke.

It either means Gaara and Kurotsuchi are much faster then Hashirama ( as speed isn't really his thing ), or that Fused Momoshiki is much slower then people give him credit for.

I don't know the answer to this, but getting tired of people picking and choosing their own cannon. :-P

This^

Would you look at that, you two are trying to bring the same trollish arguments and logic into another thread. I'm not even surprised. Why don't we actually try to use our brains for once and leave the Naruto hate boner on the side, yes? I know it might be jard for you two, but bear with me.

Let's look at @Aristeaus is trying to claim, where because Gaara is able to react to Fused Momo he is now as fast as Naruto and Sasuke, who were fighting evenly and beating him the entire fight. Not only is this straight up false that the three of them, Naruto, Sasuke, and Gaara, are all the same speed now, it's been proven false before in many media and even in the Naruto-verse itself.

Example 1

Sasuke vs the Third Raikage. Sasuke was able to react to Ay's attack in time to only coat his Ribcage Susanoo with his Amaterasu, and in the first scan you can clearly see that the Raikage can move faster than Sasuke's eyes can perceive:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

The only time Sasuke could actually outspeed the Raikage was when he used his Sharingan to dodge Ay's blow at the last minute, which is why I put "outspeed" in italics because Sasuke never outsped him in the technical sense with pure combat speed. What outspeeding the Third Raikage with pure combat/movement speed would look something like this:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Are you really going to sit there and try to tell me that MS Sasuke is now as fast as KCM Naruto? That simply because Character A could only react to Character C, Character A is suddenly as fast as Character B, who has shown that they could physically outpace and react to Character C?

Example 2

Sasuke and Naruto vs Haku. Towards the end of their fight, Naruto was on the ground after succumbing to his injuries while Sasuke was still standing and had some fight left in him. Sasuke was able to awaken his Sharingan, with two tomoe in one eye and one in another, and started being able to dodge Haku's attacks. He was even able to outpace Haku when he left his mirrors to jump in front of him and take his blows for Naruto:

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A few moments later, KN0 Naruto was able to do the same thing, dodge Haku's attacks and catch his arm before he could reenter his mirrors, proving he could react to and physically outmatch Haku:

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According to what Aristeaus and @ourmanuel are trying to sell, this would mean that early Sharingan Sasuke and KN0 Naruto are the same speed because they both reacted to and were able to physically move in time to counter Haku's moves.

Yet let's take a look at what happened when a stronger version of Sasuke who had two tomoe already in both of his eyes and trained for a month to achieve unweighted Rock Lee speeds and was amped by Orochimaru's Curse Mark (making his perception, reactions, and speed immensely faster than when he was a kid) fought KN0 Naruto in the Valley of the End:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Huh, I don't know about you, but it seems like one of them is faster than the other...

Example 3

But let's just look at the actual Kage and Naruto/Sasuke for those of you having a hard time keeping up.

Here's all of what Garra was able to do against Fused Momoshiki, in both the anime and the manga:

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And here's all of what Kurotsuchi was able to to against Fused Momo, both in the anime and the manga:

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Compare Gaara barely being able to wrap sand around Momo and barely getting a shield up and Kurotsuchi dodging a single attack in the anime only to Naruto and Sasuke when they fought Fused Momo, because not only are they able to block and dodge attacks from him, the only thing Gaara and Kurotsuchi were able to do, they're able to outpace and outspeed him, which is something neither Gaara or Kurotsuchi could do. Chapter 8 and on of the Boruto manga to read it since I'm not going to post over a dozen scans, but here's the anime version:

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And for the cherry on top, here's Naruto's short exchange in the manga with Fused Momo, where in these three scans he does more than both Gaara and Kurotsuchi:

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But "hur dur they're the same speed or Momo is slow"

Conclusion

So let me ask you again: are the Kages (since ourmanuel referred to them as plural which I assume means all of them) as fast as Naruto and Sasuke for doing the bare minimum I pointed out above compared to what Naruto and Sasuke did to Fused Momo?

Depending on your answer, I'll have to throw your own words back at you:

"but getting tired of people picking and choosing their own cannon"

"people are trying to choose their own version of events"

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#27 Posted by xjlxking (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama can make most of Naruto's advantages pointless considering that he can actually control the 9tails. We wont know for sure what the 1st Hokage can do with a host but we have seen both Jaraiya and Yamato control or even suppress it.

Naruto loses more often than not

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#28 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@xjlxking said:

Hashirama can make most of Naruto's advantages pointless considering that he can actually control the 9tails. We wont know for sure what the 1st Hokage can do with a host but we have seen both Jaraiya and Yamato control or even suppress it.

Naruto loses more often than not

Naruto is not in this fight.

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#29 Posted by xjlxking (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:
@xjlxking said:

Hashirama can make most of Naruto's advantages pointless considering that he can actually control the 9tails. We wont know for sure what the 1st Hokage can do with a host but we have seen both Jaraiya and Yamato control or even suppress it.

Naruto loses more often than not

Naruto is not in this fight.

I'm pretty i hallucinated the title lmao

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#30 Posted by ourmanuel (13032 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: except for my argument, I used base momoshiki, not the fused one.

And Gaara himself could still track even fused Momo in the anime, and in the manga could set up his shield before Momo could blitz him. Although he wasn’t taking them seriously he’s still going to be faster than hashirama even while jokingly, seeing as even in base he should be faster.

So in the end it doesn’t change much. Darui blitzes by pure speed and Gaara pretty much does the same with his sand.

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#31 Posted by Aristeaus (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

Conclusion

So let me ask you again: are the Kages (since ourmanuel referred to them as plural which I assume means all of them) as fast as Naruto and Sasuke for doing the bare minimum I pointed out above compared to what Naruto and Sasuke did to Fused Momo?

Depending on your answer, I'll have to throw your own words back at you:

"but getting tired of people picking and choosing their own cannon"

"people are trying to choose their own version of events"

So, you posted a bunch of references to a Dojutsu that specifically enhances your perception. None of the Kage have those. They are irrelevant "examples".

Explain to me how fast you think Momoshiki is, how fast you think Naruto/Sasuke are, and how fast Kage are. Then explain to me how Kage can react, even for a split second. Do this as simply as possible. I don't need bad examples. Just simple logic, please.

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#32 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: “except for my argument, I used base momoshiki, not the fused one.”

Was it Base Momoshiki who everyone is using to scale the Kages to, or is it Fused Momoshiki?

“And Gaara himself could still track even fused Momo in the anime, and in the manga could set up his shield before Momo could blitz him”

And in both his sand failed to protect him from the second attack of Momoshiki. But going by your logic, I guess half dead Itachi is lightning speed now?

“Although he wasn’t taking them seriously he’s still going to be faster than hashirama even while jokingly, seeing as even in base he should be faster.”

He’s not, and you claiming his sand can solo is as laughable as your attempts at “subsonic Naruto characters”.

“So in the end it doesn’t change much. Darui blitzes by pure speed and Gaara pretty much does the same with his sand.”

Darui blitzes with what speed feats? Reacting to a Base Momoshiki, who Hashirama can easily react to as well?

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#33 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: “So, you posted a bunch of references to a Dojutsu that specifically enhances your perception.”

And yet I referenced the fact that Sasuke trained for an entire month to match Rock Lee’s unweighted speed and was amped by Orochimaru’s Curse Mark, making him physically faster. Or did you conveniently ignore that part?

“None of the Kage have those. They are irrelevant "examples".”

So they’re irrelevant because they completely destroy your argument and you can’t counter them at all? Noted.

“Explain to me how fast you think Momoshiki is.”

Faster than the Kages, as the anime, manga, and common sense shows and painstakingly tells us.

“how fast you think Naruto/Sasuke are”

Faster than Momoshiki, as the anime, manga, and common sense shows us and painstakingly tells us. “and how fast Kage are.”

Slower than Naruto/Sasuke and Momoshiki, as the anime, manga, and common sense shows us and painstakingly tells us.

“Then explain to me how Kage can react, even for a split second”

Sure. Gaara sees Momoshiki charging him and is only fast enough to wrap sand around him, nothing more, as the anime shows us. He’s then too slow to do anything else as he gets knocked out by Momo. Kurotsuchi sees Momoshiki trying to pinch her and then moves her head to the side, but isn’t fast enough to have a prolonged fight with him as she is then knocked out by a follow up strike.

“Do this as simply as possible. I don't need bad examples. Just simple logic, please.”

The scans, gifs, and video laid it all right out in front of you above, but you seem to have a problem seeing images or videos and understanding them, so I went through and described it all in words above. If you still can’t understand the difference between the three of them, you need more help than I can give and shouldn’t be commenting on these battles in the first place.

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#34 Posted by Supermanforever (9734 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashirama would probably solo all previous kages combined excluding Naruto.

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#35 Posted by Aristeaus (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

Faster than the Kages, as the anime, manga, and common sense shows and painstakingly tells us.

Faster than Momoshiki, as the anime, manga, and common sense shows us and painstakingly tells us. “and how fast Kage are.”

Slower than Naruto/Sasuke and Momoshiki, as the anime, manga, and common sense shows us and painstakingly tells us.

Sure. Gaara sees Momoshiki charging him and is only fast enough to wrap sand around him, nothing more, as the anime shows us. He’s then too slow to do anything else as he gets knocked out by Momo. Kurotsuchi sees Momoshiki trying to pinch her and then moves her head to the side, but isn’t fast enough to have a prolonged fight with him as she is then knocked out by a follow up strike.

Not what I asked. There is a large chasm between Kage and Naruto/Sasuke in terms of speed. If Momoshiki is reasonably defending himself, even against serious naruto/sasuke, that puts him at least NEAR Naruto/Sasuke speed.

Lets say Naru/Sas are Lightspeed. Lets say Momoshiki is Relatavistic. If the Kage are MHS, they shouldn't be able to see Momoshikis movements, much less react, dodge, or grab him.

Give me some type of scale to work with here. The things you said in the post are obvious, I agree, but they do not discount anything we are saying.

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#36 Posted by Azureus (3107 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus:

Not what I asked. There is a large chasm between Kage and Naruto/Sasuke in terms of speed. If Momoshiki is reasonably defending himself, even against serious naruto/sasuke, that puts him at least NEAR Naruto/Sasuke speed.

That's true.

Lets say Naru/Sas are Lightspeed. Lets say Momoshiki is Relatavistic. If the Kage are MHS, they shouldn't be able to see Momoshikis movements, much less react, dodge, or grab him.

That's also true.

Give me some type of scale to work with here. The things you said in the post are obvious, I agree, but they do not discount anything we are saying.

And how is that? Your first two points assert that Momoshiki is massively faster than the Kage. You ask why some of them are able to react momentarily, yet this question has already been answered. He was toying with and using minimal effort and even then the Kages can't even keep up in extended combat as follow up moves utterly devastate them despite how hard he's jobbing.

So you are either...

  1. ignoring this
  2. unable to understand it

Which is it?

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#37 Posted by Aristeaus (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

@Aristeaus:

Not what I asked. There is a large chasm between Kage and Naruto/Sasuke in terms of speed. If Momoshiki is reasonably defending himself, even against serious naruto/sasuke, that puts him at least NEAR Naruto/Sasuke speed.

That's true.

Lets say Naru/Sas are Lightspeed. Lets say Momoshiki is Relatavistic. If the Kage are MHS, they shouldn't be able to see Momoshikis movements, much less react, dodge, or grab him.

That's also true.

Give me some type of scale to work with here. The things you said in the post are obvious, I agree, but they do not discount anything we are saying.

And how is that? Your first two points assert that Momoshiki is massively faster than the Kage. You ask why some of them are able to react momentarily, yet this question has already been answered. He was toying with and using minimal effort and even then the Kages can't even keep up in extended combat as follow up moves utterly devastate them despite how hard he's jobbing.

Not talking to you guy.

But, keep up making your own series of events. "He just wasn't trying". The definition of Headcannon.

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#38 Posted by GXrevs06 (5201 posts) - - Show Bio

@xjlxking said:

Hashirama can make most of Naruto's advantages pointless considering that he can actually control the 9tails. We wont know for sure what the 1st Hokage can do with a host but we have seen both Jaraiya and Yamato control or even suppress it.

Naruto loses more often than not

Naruto doesn't need the 9 tails though. He still has Six Paths power, which Hashi cannot affect

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#39 Posted by KingZod (4263 posts) - - Show Bio

So the Kages are faster than Hashirama based on incorrect scaling to Fused Momoshiki? Okay.

Hashirama should win, really the Madara vs 5 Kage fight should be sufficient reference concerning this battle

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#40 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (4173 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashi stomps. Anyone arguing otherwise is wanking Momo and/or the new Kage.

I mean, are we just going to ignore the fact that 50% base Naruto traded hands with fused Momshiki for a short amount of time? Momo still nearly blitzed all of the Kage simultaneously too.The Kage are not as fast as they are being made out to be.

Online
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#41 Edited by Azureus (3107 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus said:
@azureus said:

@Aristeaus:

Not what I asked. There is a large chasm between Kage and Naruto/Sasuke in terms of speed. If Momoshiki is reasonably defending himself, even against serious naruto/sasuke, that puts him at least NEAR Naruto/Sasuke speed.

That's true.

Lets say Naru/Sas are Lightspeed. Lets say Momoshiki is Relatavistic. If the Kage are MHS, they shouldn't be able to see Momoshikis movements, much less react, dodge, or grab him.

That's also true.

Give me some type of scale to work with here. The things you said in the post are obvious, I agree, but they do not discount anything we are saying.

And how is that? Your first two points assert that Momoshiki is massively faster than the Kage. You ask why some of them are able to react momentarily, yet this question has already been answered. He was toying with and using minimal effort and even then the Kages can't even keep up in extended combat as follow up moves utterly devastate them despite how hard he's jobbing.

Not talking to you guy.

But, keep up making your own series of events. "He just wasn't trying". The definition of Headcannon.

I don't care who you address, to dismiss said point, you have to know what you're talking about. Fused Momoshiki went from engaging Base Naruto in taijutsu, where the latter could even keep up in certain instances to holding his own against Naruto and Sasuke in their Six Paths form.

That considered, logic dictates he was jobbing against the Kage and Naruto, until Naruto and Sasuke fought him, forcing him to up the ante. Any other idea is foolish and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

So again....you are either:

  1. ignoring this
  2. unable to understand this

Which is it?

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#42 Posted by Aristeaus (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

I don't care who you address, to dismiss said point, you have to know what you're talking about. Fused Momoshiki went from engaging Base Naruto in taijutsu, where the latter could even keep up in certain instances to holding his own against Naruto and Sasuke in their Six Paths form.

That considered, logic dictates he was jobbing against the Kage and Naruto, until Naruto and Sasuke fought him, forcing him to up the ante. Any other idea is foolish and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Oh god you are just the worst, arentcha?

You are making your own headcannon up.

Jobbing does not mean what you think it means. You don't one shot or blitz your opponent in order to make them look good. You also don't one shot, or blitz, your opponent when you are "toying" with them.

You talk about logic, but none of what you have said follows any train of logic that exists other then the one in your head. Definition. Of. Headcannon.

Now you can stop talking to me.

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#43 Posted by Kidolio (1560 posts) - - Show Bio

Can we all just agree that the Naruto power scaling took a big blow from Boruto’s need for the god tiers to be weaker.

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#44 Posted by DevoidRuby (616 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashi stomps

It’s clear that Monoshiki was messing around when he fought the Kage. Unless you honestly wanna tell me that the 5 Kage got absolutely stupid buffs on the level of Six Paths then I’m not believing for a minute they’re even close to Base Momoshiki.

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#46 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

I don't care who you address, to dismiss said point, you have to know what you're talking about. Fused Momoshiki went from engaging Base Naruto in taijutsu, where the latter could even keep up in certain instances to holding his own against Naruto and Sasuke in their Six Paths form.

That considered, logic dictates he was jobbing against the Kage and Naruto, until Naruto and Sasuke fought him, forcing him to up the ante. Any other idea is foolish and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Oh god you are just the worst, arentcha?

You are making your own headcannon up.

Jobbing does not mean what you think it means. You don't one shot or blitz your opponent in order to make them look good. You also don't one shot, or blitz, your opponent when you are "toying" with them.

You talk about logic, but none of what you have said follows any train of logic that exists other then the one in your head. Definition. Of. Headcannon.

Now you can stop talking to me.

How many times are you going to run away from the topic instead of actually addressing it or using something called common sense? And how many times are you going to cry "headcanon" and use it as a shield so you don't have to address the topic? Jesus Christ.

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#47 Posted by Aristeaus (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

How many times are you going to run away from the topic instead of actually addressing it or using something called common sense? And how many times are you going to cry "headcanon" and use it as a shield so you don't have to address the topic? Jesus Christ.

I quoted you and responded to you. I am still here, you are the one running.

Trying to use the argument "He wasn't trying, or minimal effort" is not a reason or answer. Its made up. I can use that argument for literally anyone ever, it doesn't make it true.

Which is why I asked you about scaling the speeds. Neither you, nor the other guy were able to answer it. You gave me generic this guys is faster then that guy... and he wasn't trying. Ignoring the fact that its pretty obvious he was trying. You don't blitz, or feel the need to one shot, people you toy with. You don't "job" to people you toy with.

So yeah, all this crap your spewing is made up. There are no feats or logic behind them.

Either Kages are way faster then people think ( and thus, Hashi would probably get murdered ), or Momoshiki is way slower then people think. Pick one.

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#48 Posted by KingZod (4263 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow...

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#49 Posted by deactivated-5d065fa72d466 (2222 posts) - - Show Bio

Hashi godstomps

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#50 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: “I quoted you and responded to you. I am still here, you are the one running.”

You’re running away from the topic. Just cause you haven’t left the thread doesn’t mean you’re not inning away from it. You just keep running in circles because you don’t want to address what Azureus brought up.

“Trying to use the argument "He wasn't trying, or minimal effort" is not a reason or answer. Its made up. I can use that argument for literally anyone ever, it doesn't make it true”

It most certainly is a reason and an answer. Just cause you don’t like it or can’t seem to understand it doesn’t mean it isn’t. I don’t care if you can use it for anyone ever.

“Which is why I asked you about scaling the speeds. Neither you, nor the other guy were able to answer it. You gave me generic this guys is faster then that guy... and he wasn't trying.”

No, I gave you the answer and broke it down as simple as possible. You just don’t want to believe that answer cause you’ve already got it set in your head that you’re right, which is laughable considering the trolling logic you’re trying to use. Naruto and Sasuke can be faster than Momoshiki, Momoshiki can be faster than the Kages, but the Kages can still react to him. How can they do this? It’s literally right there in front of you in the gifs and scans I posted. You’re either too dense, too biased, or too stupid to understand. I’m thinking it’s a combination of all three.

“Ignoring the fact that its pretty obvious he was trying. You don't blitz, or feel the need to one shot, people you toy with. You don't "job" to people you toy with.”

According to who? You? I didn’t know you wrote Boruto now.

“So yeah, all this crap your spewing is made up. There are no feats or logic behind them”

> I bring gifs from the anime, scans from the manga, and examples from the original manga to prove my point

> “you’re making things up because I don’t want to believe what you’re saying!”

I’m sorry you’re too stupid to understand basic logic and are too set in your biased opinion to use basic common sense. I really am.

“Either Kages are way faster then people think ( and thus, Hashi would probably get murdered ), or Momoshiki is way slower then people think. Pick one.”

That’s not for you to decide. Leave this thread until you’re able to stop making up your own Canon. You’re doing nothing but wasting everyone else’s time otherwise.