Harley Quinn VS Kingpin

I know what agility is now stop insulting my intellegence before I actually start to insult you. DD's agility is peak human in MARVEL. In case you haven't noticed, street levelers that aren't even peak human can dodge bullets. DD's agility is borderline Superhuman from showings. DD's reaction speed is higher than peak human due to his radar sense. You seen Spidey right? His acrobatic skills are more impressive than DDs by far due to his enhanced physical stature. Slow characters tag Spidey all the time. Rhino, street levelers. Kingpin has good enough showings to easily stomp Harley. However, feats in comics show that Kingpin can compete with Spidey holding back. It's like saying Thor should be able to stomp every other superbeings on marvel earth because he is multi planetary but he holds back. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, point is, he hasn't done that. Now back on topic, Kingpin wins. "

" @RightScar: You realize I was being a smart ass there right? I thought that was clear "

" @RightScar: No. DD's agility is borderline superhuman anyway you look at it. I know about his skill. That's why I'm saying it's this level. Thor get's hurt by Hulk's hits yet he flies through the sun, black hole, and taken skyfathers before. Kingpin wins. "

" @RightScar: All I know is that Kingpin has the feats to prove he could put up a fight against Batman I wasn't insulting Batman in any way or down grading his abilities or even saying he'd lose the fight Kingpin is bigger, stronger and has better endurance than Batman and he actually knows how to fight yes Batman would be the victor by a large margin but Kingpin would be able to hold his own for atleast a few minutes "

I give up

" @joshmightbe said:

" @RightScar: All I know is that Kingpin has the feats to prove he could put up a fight against Batman I wasn't insulting Batman in any way or down grading his abilities or even saying he'd lose the fight Kingpin is bigger, stronger and has better endurance than Batman and he actually knows how to fight yes Batman would be the victor by a large margin but Kingpin would be able to hold his own for atleast a few minutes "

His feats don't prove anything of the sort even if we pretend him beating Daredevil,Cap or Spider-Man is feasible.Batman has the means to hurt the Kingpin,he has far better speed and agility showings, they aren't even comparable fighting skill wise and they aren't comparable intellectually in or outside of combat.Batman has beaten bigger threats than the Kingpin in pairs. "

" @JediXMan said:

 One hit and she's out. "

He's not strong enough to one-shot Harley.... "

" @RightScar said:

" @joshmightbe said:

" @RightScar: All I know is that Kingpin has the feats to prove he could put up a fight against Batman I wasn't insulting Batman in any way or down grading his abilities or even saying he'd lose the fight Kingpin is bigger, stronger and has better endurance than Batman and he actually knows how to fight yes Batman would be the victor by a large margin but Kingpin would be able to hold his own for atleast a few minutes "

His feats don't prove anything of the sort even if we pretend him beating Daredevil,Cap or Spider-Man is feasible.Batman has the means to hurt the Kingpin,he has far better speed and agility showings, they aren't even comparable fighting skill wise and they aren't comparable intellectually in or outside of combat.Batman has beaten bigger threats than the Kingpin in pairs. "

all right enough with this "feasible" crap, seriously dude, how are we suppose to argue if your taking away all his combat feats, pis is only involved if there is mis-consistency, and you just took away all his fights, there's nothing left. again there is no pis in any of those fights, and you can't just say that because he doesn't wear a pear of tights. "

" Kingpin stomps Harley with great ease. "

" @Nefarious said:

" Kingpin stomps Harley with great ease. "

"

This would be an absolute slaughter. Kingpin for the win and by a HUGE margin.

Kingpin has consistently proven himself a match for Cap, Daredevil, and Spidey. He's taken on a dozen master fighters and they never even touched him. He'd give even the mighty Bruce Wayne a run for his money. Harley loses badly... or runs. fast.

" Kingpin has consistently proven himself a match for Cap, Daredevil, and Spidey. 

 He's taken on a dozen master fighters and they never even touched him. 

He'd give even the mighty Bruce Wayne a run for his money. 

 Harley loses badly... or runs. fast. "

" Dude are your serious? Come on this is obviously a curbstomp...I can't believe I had to actually log in to post this. Dude....are you trying to troll us by cleverly defending someone in a fight who OBVIOUSLY would lose.... "

" @RightScar: You do know what a Black Hole and a Sun has in common right? Gravity. That is enough to easily be above class 100 hits. Also, Odin blasted Thor with energy blasts before and Odins blast are multi galaxy busting. Due to this, Thor shouldn't be injured by anything less. DD's agility is borderline superhuman by showings. You just described why it was. This is off topic btw. "

Poor Harley. Maybe he will take it easy on her. lol 
 

" Poor Harley. Maybe he will take it easy on her. lol 
 

"

" @RightScar: So pretty much, we're going in circles. "

" @OmegaDynasty said:

" Poor Harley. Maybe he will take it easy on her. lol 
 

"

You never had a chance against the brute strength of the Kingpin? Right, the Captain America doesn't have a chance against someone ON HIS strength level....rollseyes "

" @RightScar: yours. "

At first thought, i would say KINGPIN, but HARLEYs insane unpredictability and enhanced abilities give her a definite edge...

"

                    @Susanoo said:

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                    @RightScar: yours.

                   

                "

In what way? What have I said here that was wrong or not factual? I will admit that Harley would not beat the Kingpin.Mainly because their is no environment stated and that is a valid way she could win.The only reason she won't beat him h2h is because of his durability.I've seen Harley KO more durable and stronger characters than the Kingpin but she used her surroundings to do so.This is in no way a curbstomp.It's in inevitable defeat for Harley but it's not a cut and dry as everyone has made this out to be and the fact that people are trying to use Spider-Man,and Captain America to make some sort of point about the Kingpin proves several things..either people don't actually know anything about the Kingpin and they are basing their opinion on scans they only have because someone else has already posted them on CV and made arguments using them and that people are unwilling to listen to reason and actually look at what the characters in question have done as a whole and not just random feats.The Kingpin isn't faster than Harley nor is he strong enough to end her in one hit or one attack.

                   

                "

The reason we're using Cap and Spidey is because your using stronger characters for Harley. Truth be told, If Kingpin can tag Spidey, DD, and Cap, whom are all faster and more agile than Harley, then Kingpin can tag her and bearhug her dead faster than he did to Cap. "

" @RightScar: Killer Croc is a jobber. I made a DD vs Croc thread with it being in the sewers and DD wins. Kingpin isn't dumb however. Spidey has been tagged by slower characters. Story. Because Kingpin overpowered Cap by a bearhug and Cap couldn't break it. "

"

                    @Susanoo said:

" @RightScar: Killer Croc is a jobber. I made a DD vs Croc thread with it being in the sewers and DD wins. Kingpin isn't dumb however. Spidey has been tagged by slower characters. Story. Because Kingpin overpowered Cap by a bearhug and Cap couldn't break it.

                   

                "

That has nothing to do with anything.The fact of the matter is Harley Quinn has proven she is a quick thinker in combat.She's fought Cassandra Cain,Catwoman,Tim Drake,and Batman.She didn't win but she wasn't curbstomped either at least not in her ongoing.Your "Spider-Man was tagged by slower characters" argument is exactly what i'm talking about.Why is it so hard to grasp that..that is not what would actually happen to Spider-Man against those characters and that it's only done for the plot? EVERY CHARACTER has been tagged by characters slower than the Kingpin.That's not the point.The point is that's not an accurate depicition of their speed.You can't tell me that a character is fast enough to return bullets to the shooter with a billy club,and can repeatedly keep up with superhumans but then the Kingpin's speed is too much for him. You can't tell me that characters who are actually skilled with speed feats far beyond the Kingpin's can't get inside of Cap's defense for something as ridiculous as a bear hug but then the Kingpin can.The Kingpin isn't stronger than Cap the statements he makes during this bullsh#t barehug are completely false.The fact he was even able to pull it off is nonsense.

                   

                "

" @RightScar: If you aren't trolling then you're being completely unreasonable you can't call everything that disagrees with your assumption PIS, Kingpin would give Batman just as much of a fight as some of his well known enemies in fact he's  definitely a better  fighter than the Joker who has given Batman hard fights before "

However, it happened. Feats are everything in a debate. It's what happened, not what SHOULD have happened. Like the Cap vs Spidey fight in civil war. Complete bs. Unless what you think > CV rules and the feats that character's have to fall back on, Kingpin wins. "

"

                    @Susanoo said:

However, it happened. Feats are everything in a debate. It's what happened, not what SHOULD have happened. Like the Cap vs Spidey fight in civil war. Complete bs. Unless what you think > CV rules and the feats that character's have to fall back on, Kingpin wins.

                   

                "

Alot of PIS things happen.That doesn't make them fair game in battle forums.What SHOULD happen is exactly what we are debating.The fact that something happened doesn't make it law in a debate.Cap's fight with Spidey was bs...yes and shouldn't be used in a battle forum.The rules specifically state that we are to use what is consistent for the characters we are debating for and the Kingpin being a match for Captain America or Spider-Man wouldn't be consistent for either character given the feats they've performed consistently throughout their history.Thus using anything the Kingpin did against them especially against Spider-Man where speed is involved is nonsense.Especially because when it comes to speed...feats don't even matter in this case.You know very well Spider-Man is far faster than the Kingpin.Not feats even need to be brought up..that's just common sense.

                   

                "

" @RightScar said:

"

                    @Susanoo said:

However, it happened. Feats are everything in a debate. It's what happened, not what SHOULD have happened. Like the Cap vs Spidey fight in civil war. Complete bs. Unless what you think > CV rules and the feats that character's have to fall back on, Kingpin wins.

                   

                "

Alot of PIS things happen.That doesn't make them fair game in battle forums.What SHOULD happen is exactly what we are debating.The fact that something happened doesn't make it law in a debate.Cap's fight with Spidey was bs...yes and shouldn't be used in a battle forum.The rules specifically state that we are to use what is consistent for the characters we are debating for and the Kingpin being a match for Captain America or Spider-Man wouldn't be consistent for either character given the feats they've performed consistently throughout their history.Thus using anything the Kingpin did against them especially against Spider-Man where speed is involved is nonsense.Especially because when it comes to speed...feats don't even matter in this case.You know very well Spider-Man is far faster than the Kingpin.Not feats even need to be brought up..that's just common sense.

                   

                "

However, feats need to be used. Your logic has flaws. If we use your logic, Sentry has stalemated Galactus and has the powers of 1 million exploding suns, Thor is the most powerful being on marvel earth, ect. Kingpin's feats are not pis. He can tag DD and Cap. That's enough to catch Harley if she gets close and bearhug her to death. "

" @RightScar: Except Captain America who he was able to do some damage to but of course you're going to call it PIS cause it disagrees with your opinion and he's almost always shown as giving spiderman a hard fight except when spiderman had the Other powers "

"

                    @Susanoo said:

" @RightScar said:

"

                     @Susanoo said:

However, it happened. Feats are everything in a debate. It's what happened, not what SHOULD have happened. Like the Cap vs Spidey fight in civil war. Complete bs. Unless what you think > CV rules and the feats that character's have to fall back on, Kingpin wins.

                   

                "

Alot of PIS things happen.That doesn't make them fair game in battle forums.What SHOULD happen is exactly what we are debating.The fact that something happened doesn't make it law in a debate.Cap's fight with Spidey was bs...yes and shouldn't be used in a battle forum.The rules specifically state that we are to use what is consistent for the characters we are debating for and the Kingpin being a match for Captain America or Spider-Man wouldn't be consistent for either character given the feats they've performed consistently throughout their history.Thus using anything the Kingpin did against them especially against Spider-Man where speed is involved is nonsense.Especially because when it comes to speed...feats don't even matter in this case.You know very well Spider-Man is far faster than the Kingpin.Not feats even need to be brought up..that's just common sense.

                   

                "

However, feats need to be used. Your logic has flaws. If we use your logic, Sentry has stalemated Galactus and has the powers of 1 million exploding suns, Thor is the most powerful being on marvel earth, ect. Kingpin's feats are not pis. He can tag DD and Cap. That's enough to catch Harley if she gets close and bearhug her to death.

                   

                "

My logic has 0 flaws.Sentry stalemated Galactus off-panel and it was a more powerful Sentry than the one that was killed by Thor.So that kills that.The Kingpin tagging DD and Cap is refuted by their other feats.So...if we are going around in circles it's only because you are unwilling to admit this isn't an easy win for the Kingpin.  BTW The Sentry doesn't have the power of a million anything.It was a hyperbole that Sentry read in a comic about him.

                   

                "

kingpin.

Quinn could evade him for a while. True he may have speed but thats not necessarily the same as agility. She is way more agile than the kingpin. Ever see him do a flip?

Your logic has flaws. You did change my opinion a little bit but the outcome is the same. Harley gets close, Kingpin bearhugs her. DD admitted that Kingpin has outstanding speed and agility for a man his size. "

" kingpin. "

F^^k it this has gotten stupid and I have better things to do than to argue stupidity

"

                    @Susanoo said:

Your logic has flaws. You did change my opinion a little bit but the outcome is the same. Harley gets close, Kingpin bearhugs her. DD admitted that Kingpin has outstanding speed and agility for a man his size.

                   

                "

DD also said in Joe Kelly's run that he can't detect fire yet he's done it more than once during Miller and Stan Lee's.DD can admit what ever he wants.What's he's shown and what he says are two different things.I'm not saying the Kingpin can't EVER tag him in a fight..but not the way he has.Daredevil has consistently dodged faster things and characters than the Kingpin.

                   

                "

" @RightScar: That was in Back in Black when spidey had the Other powers meaning he was stronger and faster than he'd ever been in any of their previous encounters and by what you're saying basically that would mean that everytime Red Skull or Crossbones or Zemo gave Cap a hard fight was PIS too cause he's taken down people stronger and more powerful than them "

" F^^k it this has gotten stupid and I have better things to do than to argue stupidity "

" @Susanoo said:

1. And?  2. Kingpin has manhandled Spidey multiple times, defeated DD, and beaten Cap once or twice.  3. I was mentioning how strong Kingpin is and how Harley cannot compete against him. Caps strength feats is irrelevant here. "

1.Captain America has proven himself against more physically dominant characters than the Kingpin. 
2.The Kingpin has only defeated Daredevil because of his durability.Which has been exaggerated because Daredevil has hurt was stronger characters than the Kingpin. 
3.You said the Kingpin was stronger than Captain America.Don't try and act like what I said was irrelevant after you made the comparison. "